Upcoming Nikon Z9 Sensor by TowerJazz (now Semiconductor)??

[RazorSharpWO]

There has been ample speculation as to where the new Nikon Z9 sensor will be derived. Most assume it will be from Sony, in the form of some derivative of the recent A1's sensor. However, I don't think so. IMO, Nikon's new Z9 sensor is being designed completely in-house and will be fabbed by Tower Jazz (now Tower Semiconductor).

• Consider the fact that two of Nikon's newer cameras, the Z50 and D7500, already deploy sensors fabbed by Tower Semiconductor (06/04/20).

According to NikonRumors, Tower Semiconductor featured these two Nikon cameras in its own recent advertising website. Also, long time Nikon expert, Tom Hogan, similarly concurs that the Z9 sensor will most likely be manufactured by Tower Semiconductor:

• Recent Hogan article on Z9 (03/08/21). Hogan also clears-up the often-repeated fallacy that "Sony makes all Nikons sensors" ... no, they actually don't.

With this preamble in place, the reason I also venture out to speculate that the newly-announced Z9 will involve a revolutionary new sensor, designed in-house by Nikon (to be fabbed by Tower Semiconductor), is a convergence of three elements that have all come out virtually simultaneously during the past 1.5 months:

1. Nikon Signs Mutual-Equipment-Supply Agreement w/ Tower Semiconductor (Feb, 2021): Nikon and Tower have entered into a mutually-beneficial, reciprocal partnership where each company supplies parts, products, and business to the other;
2. Nikon Develops New 1000 FPS Sensor (Feb, 2021): Also last month, while Sony announced its new A1, sporting a 120 FPS sensor, Nikon announces a totally new 1,000 FPS sensor, with 110-dB high dynamic range (HDR) characteristics, and capabilities which appear way beyond the Sony's sensor. While the particular sensor described in this announcement is "square," likely being targeted for cell phones and such; obviously, the applications for Nikon Z cameras are implied;
3. Nikon Announces "Ground-Breaking" Z9 (March, 2021): Just this month, Nikon announces a new Mirror less Flagship Model. In Nikon's own words, "An unprecedented imaging experience ... Bringing together the most exceptional groundbreaking technologies, the Z9 delivers the best still and video performance in Nikon’s history."

Because of these recent, contemporaneous developments, it seems reasonable to conclude that the Z9 will not be an "also ran" mirrorless camera, but a "better than," new-level offering. It appears Nikon is making a paradigm shift for its future, developing its own sensors completely, utilizing its own innovations, rather than "personalizing" existing Sony sensor design offerings.

While all of this is speculation at this point, admittedly, the evidence does seem to be funneling in this direction. Therefore, the Z9 will quite possibly be another benchmark for Nikon, in a whole new way. If the facts ultimately pan out as speculated, then the advent of the Z9 should be exciting for those utilizing other brands as well.

Reason being, given the flexibility of the Z-Mount, even those already invested in "other glass" will be able to adapt their lenses—and still use them—on this more functional, durable, professional mirrorless body. IMO, very powerful, possibly industry-changing stuff here.

Time will tell ...

--
"Fortune favors the bold."
~ Virgil

 

[DanishMacro]

The “ground breaking” 1000 fps (which really isn’t the unique part) sensor is most likely for use in the automotive industry, not mirrorless cameras.

I’m fairly amazed how important it is to some, whether Nikon use their own, Sonys or other third party sensor tech in their cameras. Source the best parts, that make the most sense in terms of integration with rest of the tech in the camera.

 

[RazorSharpWO]

The “ground breaking” 1000 fps (which really isn’t the unique part) sensor is most likely for use in the automotive industry, not mirrorless cameras.

That was mentioned.

I’m fairly amazed how important it is to some, whether Nikon use their own, Sonys or other third party sensor tech in their cameras.

It's important because, in order to establish true leadership, Nikon cannot be dependent on a competitor. If Nikon wants to lead, then they have to actually do so. This could be the move.

Source the best parts, that make the most sense in terms of integration with rest of the tech in the camera.

As a photographer, it is also important to me (in order to completely leave DSLRs and move to mirrorless) that any mirrorless camera offer me these 3 advantages for my long glass:

• Reducing lag time (right now, the Z6, while offering outstanding high-ISO image quality, is very slow to react);
• Maintaining AF accuracy w/ action (right now, Nikon mirrorless cannot compare w/ Canon/Sony, or even its own DSLRs, for action);
• Meeting or exceeding the D5s high-ISO capability (right now, the D5 still offers the finest high-ISO DR, even over the newer D6 and Sony A1).

If the Z9 addresses these 3 elements, offering other benefits, then I for one will sell all 3 of my DSLRs, as well as the Z6, and replace these 4 cameras w/ 2 Z9s.

--
"Fortune favors the bold."
~ Virgil

 

[DanishMacro]

Cell phones is automotive industry now? How is the sensor tech implied for usage in the z-series cameras, if the tech is targeted at a different range of products (as in a -completely- different application and tech-needs)?

 

[24Peter]

The “ground breaking” 1000 fps (which really isn’t the unique part) sensor is most likely for use in the automotive industry, not mirrorless cameras.

That was mentioned.

I’m fairly amazed how important it is to some, whether Nikon use their own, Sonys or other third party sensor tech in their cameras.

It's important because, in order to establish true leadership, Nikon cannot be dependent on a competitor. If Nikon wants to lead, then they have to actually do so. This could be the move.

Source the best parts, that make the most sense in terms of integration with rest of the tech in the camera.

As a photographer, it is also important to me (in order to completely leave DSLRs and move to mirrorless) that any mirrorless camera offer me these 3 advantages for my long glass:

• Reducing lag time (right now, the Z6, while offering outstanding high-ISO image quality, is very slow to react);
• Maintaining AF accuracy w/ action (right now, Nikon mirrorless cannot compare w/ Canon/Sony, or even its own DSLRs, for action);
• Meeting or exceeding the D5s high-ISO capability (right now, the D5 still offers the finest high-ISO DR, even over the newer D6 and Sony A1).

If the Z9 addresses these 3 elements, offering other benefits, then I for one will sell all 3 of my DSLRs, as well as the Z6, and replace these 4 cameras w/ 2 Z9s.

I love your enthusiasm and who knows - you might be right.

But... I tend to agree with Danish that the source of the sensor isn't really all that important. "True Leadership" which may or may not be Nikon's goal, isn't dependent on where it gets it's sensors. It's that the sensors do the job. Also, Sony Semiconductor isn't a competitor of Nikon Imaging. Finally, the tech we're talking about in the new sensor may be beyond the reach of what TowerJazz is currently capable of. I personally wouldn't be too disappointed if the Z9 has the same sensor as the A1 (though I'm admittedly not in the market for either camera.)

Also, Nikon's 1000fps stacked sensor is 1" - in some ways a far cry from a stacked full framed sensor like the A1 is using.

In terms of Nikon mirrorless action AF not being able to compete with Sony, Canon or even it's own DSLR's, is IMO overstating the issue. Yes, there's a difference. But how many people base their buying decision solely on how good action AF is? Some pro's for sure. But not the majority of us Nikon buyers. And if the Z9 is as good as we hope in this regard, this will bode well for future generations of Nikon mirrorless cameras in terms of AF performance (heck, even a small FW update for the Z6II/Z7II could do the trick).

Finally while the D5 does indeed have good high-iso capability, it has pretty poor DR. For my type of work, I prefer DR over high-ISO performance any day.

I'd love to see Nikon become a leader in both terms of market share and performance. But I won't be abandoning the brand anytime soon if they don't.

--
www.peteralessandriaphotography.com
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[RazorSharpWO]

Cell phones is automotive industry now?

Meaning, I mentioned that the exact sensor linked-to was "for cell phones and such." Meaning, it's not just for "any one thing," but likely has multiple applications.

How is the sensor tech implied for usage in the z-series cameras, if the tech is targeted at a different range of products (as in a -completely- different application and tech-needs)?

If you actually read the article, the applications of the new tech are many-fold, not limited "only" to cars (or anything else).

Look, I am not looking to bicker. I stated my beliefs as to the likely sensor fab for the upcoming Z9, and stated my reasoning. You're free to doubt if it suits you.

--
"Fortune favors the bold."
~ Virgil

 

[RazorSharpWO]

I love your enthusiasm and who knows - you might be right.

Thanks. I think the reasoning is justified.

But... I tend to agree with Danish that the source of the sensor isn't really all that important. "True Leadership" which may or may not be Nikon's goal, isn't dependent on where it gets it's sensors. It's that the sensors do the job. Also, Sony Semiconductor isn't a competitor of Nikon Imaging. Finally, the tech we're talking about in the new sensor may be beyond the reach of what TowerJazz is currently capable of. I personally wouldn't be too disappointed if the Z9 has the same sensor as the A1 (though I'm admittedly not in the market for either camera.)

That's okay, we can agree to disagree.

I am not in the market for the Sony, but as a Nikon user, I am definitely in the market for any mirrorless that can out-perform my D5 at high-ISOS, matching or exceeding its reflexes. Like I said, if so, I would sell all my DSLRs + Z6 and purchase two Z9s.

Also, Nikon's 1000fps stacked sensor is 1" - in some ways a far cry from a stacked full framed sensor like the A1 is using.

At this point, yes.

However, the article mentioned "future sensor developments," based on the record-breaking new tech. My speculation that the Z9's "development announcement" the following month is no coincidence, but the next step in Nikon's development of this new tech.

In terms of Nikon mirrorless action AF not being able to compete with Sony, Canon or even it's own DSLR's, is IMO overstating the issue. Yes, there's a difference. But how many people base their buying decision solely on how good action AF is? Some pro's for sure. But not the majority of us Nikon buyers. And if the Z9 is as good as we hope in this regard, this will bode well for future generations of Nikon mirrorless cameras in terms of AF performance (heck, even a small FW update for the Z6II/Z7II could do the trick).

Since I deploy 400 and 800mm lenses, using the D5, D500, D850, and Z cameras, the importance of "no lag + AF accuracy" is absolutely not being "overstated." It's vital.

Finally while the D5 does indeed have good high-iso capability, it has pretty poor DR. For my type of work, I prefer DR over high-ISO performance any day.

The D5 has the highest DR of any DSLR (or mirrorless), over ISO 2500. This becomes vital, when shooting long glass, or are engaged in any kind of "very low-light" photography.

I'd love to see Nikon become a leader in both terms of market share and performance. But I won't be abandoning the brand anytime soon if they don't.

Of course, if your needs don't demand it, there's no need to go anywhere else. Totally agree with that.

Me, I tend to "push the envelope" as far as needs go, shooting 800 to 1600mm, often in very low light, so image quality at the highest-ISOs is vital to me. I routinely find myself from 4000 ISO to 20,000 ISO, virtually daily. Your use needs can be totally different.

However, like you, when I shoot macro, I am rarely over ISO 640, so have no use for the D5, and select either my D850 or Z7. My choice here depends on whether I elect an F-Mount macro lens or a Z-Mount macro lens (or 3rd party w/ adapter).

Different needs = different selections.

--
"Fortune favors the bold."
~ Virgil

 

[Rick620]

Just to say that I also admire your enthusiasm!

I too read Hogan’ S article and I think he knows a little more than he can write about! Likewise Ricci’s vids sometimes contain knowing smiles and Matt Irwin has gone as far as speculating what a Z8 would bring despite being complete vapourware! Hmmm.

Anyway, whatever the reality proves to be I just have a (totally unproven!) feeling that Nikon is going to do something ‘spectacular’ along the lines of D3/300 announcement - it’s true of course that the sensor source doesn’t really matter but I just have a feeling that they are a bit sick of ‘relying’ on Sony to supply and want to ‘stand up for themselves’

Could all be total BS but it’s fun to speculate!

Whatever happens, my Z6II is perfect for my needs (my 850 is going) but a ‘Z8’ would be nteresting.

 

[DanishMacro]

I’m not looking to bicker either, and believe me, I’ve read the article. I’m just pointing out that one of your arguments, that Nikon are developing their own sensor for the Z9, has nothing to do with mirrorless cameras, and therefore points to nothing of the sort.

It very well could be that Nikon is developing the sensor themselves. But the 1000 fps stacked sensor is only proof that Nikon is building to push their marketshare in other industries further, their main market being highly disruptive at the moment, and likely to compress further in the future.

 

[Joop_S]

However, the article mentioned "future sensor developments," based on the record-breaking new tech. My speculation that the Z9's "development announcement" the following month is no coincidence, but the next step in Nikon's development of this new tech.

The D5 has the highest DR of any DSLR (or mirrorless), over ISO 2500. This becomes vital, when shooting long glass, or are engaged in any kind of "very low-light" photography.

However, like you, when I shoot macro, I am rarely over ISO 640, so have no use for the D5, and select either my D850 or Z7 My choice here depends on whether I elect an F-Mount macro lens or a Z-Mount macro lens (or 3rd party w/ adapter).

Different needs = different selections.

The sensor has a wide dynamic range of 134 dB for shooting 60 frames per second, is that usable in a Z camera or back to 20 fps and a higher dynamic range?

If I read :The top chip is divided into individual blocks of 16 × 16 pixels, with a total of 264 × 264 blocks (4224 × 4224 pixels) arranged on the sensor it can also arranged for FF. It good for a PJ/Sport camera, but not for 4K movie. with about 26 megapixels on on a FF sensor.

 

[rumple]

[...]

It's important because, in order to establish true leadership, Nikon cannot be dependent on a competitor.

Sure they can. You can google "coopetition" as coined by Ray Noorda.

My understanding is that Nikon has used some Sony sensors, modifying them and so adding value.

In any event, while the sensor is clearly important, it is not the camera system. Many other things go into leadership.

As others have noted and I agree, the source if the components is irrelevant. It's the sum of the parts that matter.

The source of the sensor is a mildly interesting guessing game for technically-focused persons, that's all.

 

[RazorSharpWO]

My understanding is that Nikon has used some Sony sensors, modifying them and so adding value.

This is true; Nikon's additions always have the edge at the extremes (base ISO and highest ISOs.

But it does appear they are taking steps to do their own thing.

Also, it would make sense to totally re-design its highest-performing sensors, tailor-made for their own custom, developed AF system + their own lenses.

On their end, Sony, no doubt, completely customizes its own sensors to its own cameras / lenses / AF system—which may actually be an impediment for Nikon to try to engineer around.

By re-designing absolutely everything, from the ground up, this will may likely unleash new potential for Nikon.

(Again, admittedly, all speculation at this point ...)

 

[BGD300V1]

I’m not looking to bicker either, and believe me, I’ve read the article. I’m just pointing out that one of your arguments, that Nikon are developing their own sensor for the Z9, has nothing to do with mirrorless cameras, and therefore points to nothing of the sort.

It very well could be that Nikon is developing the sensor themselves. But the 1000 fps stacked sensor is only proof that Nikon is building to push their marketshare in other industries further, their main market being highly disruptive at the moment, and likely to compress further in the future.

If you read previous articles on Nikon sensor development you would find that they do actually create their own prototype sensors for developmental testing in a 1" size. This really sounds like one of those.

Once the design is complete, it can be passed off to a fabrication facility for production. This is what Nikon has done in the past with Aptina and Tower.

Sony appears to have said that it will now keep the best sensors for themselves.

Loading…

www.sonyalpharumors.com

Nikon co-developed the Nikon 1 sensors with Aptina. Sony later licensed IP from Aptina, some of that may have come from Nikon. Tower has produced sensors for Nikon.

In fact, it really doesn't matter who runs the fabrication process so long as the design meets the camera makers standards.

 

[Allen Moss]

Not sure I’d want to make my competitor more profitable by buying my main component from them.

 

[DanishMacro]

Yet Nikon has chosen to do so for several cameras for several years.

You’re looking at it from a very two dimensional perspective. The part of Sony that makes the sensors is not in competition with Nikons Camera division. Sony has for instance invested a large sum in Microsofts Azure tech, for their game console division (yet being in direct competition with a different branch of MS). In complex high tech manufacturing, sourcing often trumps other needs.

That said, of course it would make sense for Nikon to make the sensor themselves, if they have the capability to manufacture it (at the same or lower cost), or source the same complex tech from a third party (at the same or lower cost) in a timely manner.

To state it in plainer terms: How important is the manufacturer of the sensor as aposed to cost, timing, design or functionality? Sony has largely become the lead in mirrorless cameras because of their early entrance in the market, and some amazing software/AF-tech. Nikon trailing has much more to do with this, than sharing sensor tech with Sony.

 

[DanishMacro]

I’m not looking to bicker either, and believe me, I’ve read the article. I’m just pointing out that one of your arguments, that Nikon are developing their own sensor for the Z9, has nothing to do with mirrorless cameras, and therefore points to nothing of the sort.

It very well could be that Nikon is developing the sensor themselves. But the 1000 fps stacked sensor is only proof that Nikon is building to push their marketshare in other industries further, their main market being highly disruptive at the moment, and likely to compress further in the future.

If you read previous articles on Nikon sensor development you would find that they do actually create their own prototype sensors for developmental testing in a 1" size. This really sounds like one of those.

Once the design is complete, it can be passed off to a fabrication facility for production. This is what Nikon has done in the past with Aptina and Tower.

Sony appears to have said that it will now keep the best sensors for themselves.

https://www.sonyalpharumors.com/son...nsors-will-remain-house-not-outsourced-nikon/

Nikon co-developed the Nikon 1 sensors with Aptina. Sony later licensed IP from Aptina, some of that may have come from Nikon. Tower has produced sensors for Nikon.

In fact, it really doesn't matter who runs the fabrication process so long as the design meets the camera makers standards.

I’m not sure why you’re @me. I don’t think I’ve stated anywhere that Nikon hasn’t developed sensors, or couldn’t produce a sensor for the Z9. Just that the 1000 fps stacked sensor isn’t related to the Z9.

Yes, I agree, it does not matter who makes the sensor.

 

[Don Simpson]

There is understandable interest in sensor development for the still mythical Z9. The technology appears to be advancing significantly as noted in this article:

A 5 Million Frames Per Second 3D Stacked Image Sensor With In-Pixel Digital Storage

Who fabs the sensors is not as important as that there is competition in manufacturers. That's good and bad for consumers. Good in that like Moore's law for CPUs, greatly improved sensors are rapidly on the drawing board and in the lab. Bad in that you'll want to turn over your $3,000+ camera a lot.

 

[Dibyendu Majumdar]

The news item you point to is from 2001 by the way.

 

[j_photo]

Such a thoughtful, balanced opinion! What are you doing in this forum anyway

 

[RazorSharpWO]

Such a thoughtful, balanced opinion! What are you doing in this forum anyway