A1 without focus braketing

[MicahSYL]

Why is there no flash on the A1? Why no 24-300mm lens attached?

There are many things not there, and we needed them, yet we buy the camera bodies.

There are things best done with add-ons to suit every possible needs.

You can have lots of lens to chose from when it is IL camera. You can add all kinds of lighting needs to work with the cameras. You can add the best 3rd party focus bracketing devices and software.

It is not that it is not good to have the focus bracketing, but would it be the best option for everyone's need? Just as lenses. I don't think so. Probably to satisfy some but not all who needs the better options.

If you can afford the A1, you should be able to afford the add-ons for focus stacking, which is transferable between many cameras, you have investment protection + same user interface that you are used to.

Cheers.

It boggles my mind the absurd analogies and arguments that are presented to defend the indefensible by Sony. It seems like you would defend the lack of a shutter button. After all, not everyone needs a shutter button on the camera and, if you can afford the camera, you can afford a remote shutter release. Or how about the ability to control aperture on lenses from the camera? Not everyone uses lenses without a physical aperture control, so that's another dumb feature.

You are comparing a basic and widespread firmware function with a lens or flash coming physically attached to the camera. First of all, obviously those are hardware additions, so it would result in a large price increase per unit (especially so with the lens). Not so with focus bracketing. Second, the Alpha series is an ILC series. Having an attached lens would mean it is not an ILC anymore, which would restrict its functionality. Again, not so with focus bracketing, which wouldn't restrict any functioning and would only add a basic, but important, firmware function. You make it seem like having an option for focus bracketing would interfere with some users' needs, when that is clearly not true. Do you use exposure bracketing? If not, do you care that it is a feature in the firmware? Does it hurt you to have that option? Of course not.

Any true fan of Sony would want Sony to stop artificially crippling their cameras with the absence of a simple firmware feature common on just about every other brand that would cost Sony virtually nothing to add.

Fully agreed, I am being absurd. It is to bring out the absurdity that a camera should incorporate every functions to be acceptable. I don't need a flash on the A1, nor a fixed lens, neither the many bells and whistles but that it performs its main function extreeeeeeemely well. I can afford external software and devices to handle the BETTER bells and whistles, if I can afford the camera body. Cheers.

So you admit your analogy is inapposite. Focus stacking is not a bell or a whistle. It's a firmware feature. You do understand the difference between hardware and software, right?

When I refers to hardware and software, they are for external hardware and software to coordinate the probe/flash lightning (not needed if only constant lightning used, but often the effect is clinical) and also perform the focus shift with intervals on the camera.

Anything not primary to the main functions can be treated as bells and whistles, just like the A7R4 huge 240MP or the A1 200MPx using pixel shift, but this is critical for architectural photographers. Good to have but not primary functions. Cheers.

What add-on would you recommend to do focus stacking for products? Link to purchase?

If someone is having to switch brands or rent another brand it seems like a critical function.

Personally not top of my list but I don't suppose to be the one photographer that gets to decide what is important for others.

Andrew

I had reply in an earlier reply. But it is easier if you just Google on Focus Stacking devices for Sony. Cam Ranger 2, CamFi pro, are the 2 commonly used for various brands of cameras not just Sony. There are software that works with Sony Imaging Edge to automate the focus bracketing. It will not be as professional as Phase One XP, but you can get a reasonable approach.

Sorry I am not deciding for anyone whether to buy an A1, as this feature is NOT THERE at all. You cannot buy an A1 with focus bracketing period. We are discussing if Sony had failed to satisfy her customers. I am pointing out that there are ways to achieve it, and of course many will not like to have it as add-on.

I guess I better stop here, as the thread is about the feature and not the work around.

Cheers.

 

[andrewD2]

Why is there no flash on the A1? Why no 24-300mm lens attached?

There are many things not there, and we needed them, yet we buy the camera bodies.

There are things best done with add-ons to suit every possible needs.

You can have lots of lens to chose from when it is IL camera. You can add all kinds of lighting needs to work with the cameras. You can add the best 3rd party focus bracketing devices and software.

It is not that it is not good to have the focus bracketing, but would it be the best option for everyone's need? Just as lenses. I don't think so. Probably to satisfy some but not all who needs the better options.

If you can afford the A1, you should be able to afford the add-ons for focus stacking, which is transferable between many cameras, you have investment protection + same user interface that you are used to.

Cheers.

It boggles my mind the absurd analogies and arguments that are presented to defend the indefensible by Sony. It seems like you would defend the lack of a shutter button. After all, not everyone needs a shutter button on the camera and, if you can afford the camera, you can afford a remote shutter release. Or how about the ability to control aperture on lenses from the camera? Not everyone uses lenses without a physical aperture control, so that's another dumb feature.

You are comparing a basic and widespread firmware function with a lens or flash coming physically attached to the camera. First of all, obviously those are hardware additions, so it would result in a large price increase per unit (especially so with the lens). Not so with focus bracketing. Second, the Alpha series is an ILC series. Having an attached lens would mean it is not an ILC anymore, which would restrict its functionality. Again, not so with focus bracketing, which wouldn't restrict any functioning and would only add a basic, but important, firmware function. You make it seem like having an option for focus bracketing would interfere with some users' needs, when that is clearly not true. Do you use exposure bracketing? If not, do you care that it is a feature in the firmware? Does it hurt you to have that option? Of course not.

Any true fan of Sony would want Sony to stop artificially crippling their cameras with the absence of a simple firmware feature common on just about every other brand that would cost Sony virtually nothing to add.

Fully agreed, I am being absurd. It is to bring out the absurdity that a camera should incorporate every functions to be acceptable. I don't need a flash on the A1, nor a fixed lens, neither the many bells and whistles but that it performs its main function extreeeeeeemely well. I can afford external software and devices to handle the BETTER bells and whistles, if I can afford the camera body. Cheers.

So you admit your analogy is inapposite. Focus stacking is not a bell or a whistle. It's a firmware feature. You do understand the difference between hardware and software, right?

When I refers to hardware and software, they are for external hardware and software to coordinate the probe/flash lightning (not needed if only constant lightning used, but often the effect is clinical) and also perform the focus shift with intervals on the camera.

Anything not primary to the main functions can be treated as bells and whistles, just like the A7R4 huge 240MP or the A1 200MPx using pixel shift, but this is critical for architectural photographers. Good to have but not primary functions. Cheers.

What add-on would you recommend to do focus stacking for products? Link to purchase?

If someone is having to switch brands or rent another brand it seems like a critical function.

Personally not top of my list but I don't suppose to be the one photographer that gets to decide what is important for others.

Andrew

I had reply in an earlier reply. But it is easier if you just Google on Focus Stacking devices for Sony. Cam Ranger 2, CamFi pro, are the 2 commonly used for various brands of cameras not just Sony. There are software that works with Sony Imaging Edge to automate the focus bracketing. It will not be as professional as Phase One XP, but you can get a reasonable approach.

Sorry I am not deciding for anyone whether to buy an A1, as this feature is NOT THERE at all. You cannot buy an A1 with focus bracketing period. We are discussing if Sony had failed to satisfy her customers. I am pointing out that there are ways to achieve it, and of course many will not like to have it as add-on.

I guess I better stop here, as the thread is about the feature and not the work around.

Cheers.

Its a £250 workaround with another point of failure.
Your point about landscapes - you'll get more tree branch blur trying to use f16 for DOF than you will stacking f5.6 shots. Lots of landscape photographers stack. Have you seen David Newton's work for example?
You have to ask Sony for these features, apologising for them gets you nowhere.
Same when we wanted uncompressed raw, some said, "if you wanted uncompressed raw you should have bought a Canon". I asked and petitioned and complained and we got an update. If enough people want it then they will work on it, makes sense to make your customers happy not disenchanted.

Andrew

 

[Tristimulus]

Why focus bracketing?

Sony has terrific auto focus precision.

For landscapers manual focus adjustment should be easy. Guess no serious landscaper works without a sturdy tripod.

Serious focus stacking photography require special software anyway. In camera focus stacking does work but not without flaws.

You don't seem to understand what auto focus bracketing does and you are confusing it with in camera focus stacking.

Well - then you misread my post.

Why should focus bracketing be needed now with terrific eye focus AND flexible spot focus following the area of interest? The point of interest will simply be in focus.

And focus stacking to acheive more DOF is a well known tecnique.

Stacking is what is done with the shots after they have been taken and this is where in camera programs are limited. The stacking is best done on a computer after the images have been collected and there are many variables in how you might want the images worked with in the stacking.

Focus bracketing is the ability of the camera to take a predetermined number of shots with a predetermined shift in focus distance and to take the shots automatically and quickly. It needs just one shutter release press. You see the advantages?

Yes - for causual amateurs not able to turn a focus ring... :-D

As I was reading this, I was wondering whether you were trolling us and then I saw your username. But please, do continue to tell us all about how flexible spot focus is a substitute for focus bracketing in landscape photography where the goal is to get the whole scene in focus, not follow around a moving subject.

Well - you will find the answer if bothering to read my entire post.

Know the meaning of this :-D one?

 

[MicahSYL]

Why is there no flash on the A1? Why no 24-300mm lens attached?

There are many things not there, and we needed them, yet we buy the camera bodies.

There are things best done with add-ons to suit every possible needs.

You can have lots of lens to chose from when it is IL camera. You can add all kinds of lighting needs to work with the cameras. You can add the best 3rd party focus bracketing devices and software.

It is not that it is not good to have the focus bracketing, but would it be the best option for everyone's need? Just as lenses. I don't think so. Probably to satisfy some but not all who needs the better options.

If you can afford the A1, you should be able to afford the add-ons for focus stacking, which is transferable between many cameras, you have investment protection + same user interface that you are used to.

Cheers.

It boggles my mind the absurd analogies and arguments that are presented to defend the indefensible by Sony. It seems like you would defend the lack of a shutter button. After all, not everyone needs a shutter button on the camera and, if you can afford the camera, you can afford a remote shutter release. Or how about the ability to control aperture on lenses from the camera? Not everyone uses lenses without a physical aperture control, so that's another dumb feature.

You are comparing a basic and widespread firmware function with a lens or flash coming physically attached to the camera. First of all, obviously those are hardware additions, so it would result in a large price increase per unit (especially so with the lens). Not so with focus bracketing. Second, the Alpha series is an ILC series. Having an attached lens would mean it is not an ILC anymore, which would restrict its functionality. Again, not so with focus bracketing, which wouldn't restrict any functioning and would only add a basic, but important, firmware function. You make it seem like having an option for focus bracketing would interfere with some users' needs, when that is clearly not true. Do you use exposure bracketing? If not, do you care that it is a feature in the firmware? Does it hurt you to have that option? Of course not.

Any true fan of Sony would want Sony to stop artificially crippling their cameras with the absence of a simple firmware feature common on just about every other brand that would cost Sony virtually nothing to add.

Fully agreed, I am being absurd. It is to bring out the absurdity that a camera should incorporate every functions to be acceptable. I don't need a flash on the A1, nor a fixed lens, neither the many bells and whistles but that it performs its main function extreeeeeeemely well. I can afford external software and devices to handle the BETTER bells and whistles, if I can afford the camera body. Cheers.

So you admit your analogy is inapposite. Focus stacking is not a bell or a whistle. It's a firmware feature. You do understand the difference between hardware and software, right?

When I refers to hardware and software, they are for external hardware and software to coordinate the probe/flash lightning (not needed if only constant lightning used, but often the effect is clinical) and also perform the focus shift with intervals on the camera.

Anything not primary to the main functions can be treated as bells and whistles, just like the A7R4 huge 240MP or the A1 200MPx using pixel shift, but this is critical for architectural photographers. Good to have but not primary functions. Cheers.

What add-on would you recommend to do focus stacking for products? Link to purchase?

If someone is having to switch brands or rent another brand it seems like a critical function.

Personally not top of my list but I don't suppose to be the one photographer that gets to decide what is important for others.

Andrew

I had reply in an earlier reply. But it is easier if you just Google on Focus Stacking devices for Sony. Cam Ranger 2, CamFi pro, are the 2 commonly used for various brands of cameras not just Sony. There are software that works with Sony Imaging Edge to automate the focus bracketing. It will not be as professional as Phase One XP, but you can get a reasonable approach.

Sorry I am not deciding for anyone whether to buy an A1, as this feature is NOT THERE at all. You cannot buy an A1 with focus bracketing period. We are discussing if Sony had failed to satisfy her customers. I am pointing out that there are ways to achieve it, and of course many will not like to have it as add-on.

I guess I better stop here, as the thread is about the feature and not the work around.

Cheers.

Its a £250 workaround with another point of failure.
Your point about landscapes - you'll get more tree branch blur trying to use f16 for DOF than you will stacking f5.6 shots. Lots of landscape photographers stack. Have you seen David Newton's work for example?
You have to ask Sony for these features, apologising for them gets you nowhere.
Same when we wanted uncompressed raw, some said, "if you wanted uncompressed raw you should have bought a Canon". I asked and petitioned and complained and we got an update. If enough people want it then they will work on it, makes sense to make your customers happy not disenchanted.
Andrew

Hope you will get what you had hope for from Sony through this mean. I will just go on happily with my A7R4 (was my dream come true as it is) and see if the A1 has enough pull on me to make another big purchase (most probably GAS). Cheers.

 

[panther fan]

Why Sony why you did it again. Super camera but don't include my favorite option focus bracketing.

I make pre order it but i think canceled that order.

Now i have think to trade my A9ii to order Canon R5.

I need it because i take much close up pictures with very deep DOF.

All another Companies have it Canon, Nikon, Fuji, Panasonic, Olympus etc....

Shame you Sony.

I read A1specks my finger crossed, but again Sony disappoint us.

I invest to Sony so heavily at i don't want buy another system.

Focus bracketing was possible on an A7R II but they removed it

Live composite? Also gone

electronic ND (stacking)? Also gone

aperture bracketing? Also gone

Aspect ratio visualizations? Never there

They don't care about features that make everyday photography easier if they cannot put them in a headline

 

[panther fan]

Why focus bracketing?

Sony has terrific auto focus precision.

For landscapers manual focus adjustment should be easy. Guess no serious landscaper works without a sturdy tripod.

Serious focus stacking photography require special software anyway. In camera focus stacking does work but not without flaws.

It's to capture the shots, not stack them. The Canon R series and the Nikon D6, D850, etc, allow you to specify a range of distances and a number of shots to capture.

Great for static macro, product photography, and some large DOF landscape work where you want to avoid diffraction losses.

It can be done on I and II series E mount Sonys with an app from OpenMemories.

Yes, it can be done by hand in the newer Sonys, but what a pain! Especially if you want to do like Nikon's showing off in their tutorial and capture 100 or 150 frames.

I do a reasonable amount of focus stacking by hand using Sony bodies (and before that with other makes).

I can't say I find it to be particularly painful - but I don't ever try to capture ≥100 frames --- 20 is about my upper limit, and more often I stop at a dozen or less.

And that is a solution for you?

-For macro 20 is not even remotely enough. And if you want to achieve equidistant spacing while manual focussing that is a pain

-For landscapes refocussing 12 times is a PiTa, especially if you capture fleeting light conditions. An A1 would be capable of capturing a 15 image stack in 0.5sec. Taking a shot with a remote shutter, then selecting a new focus point and shooting again takes you at least 30sec even if you are really fast, probably longer

 

[Paul Barnard]

Are there any accessories that allow focus bracketing? I abandoned Panasonic because I couldn't find any device that would allow me to exposure bracket more than 1 EV apart (I wish reviewers would hammer Panasonic over this ridiculous limitation). I don't know why intervalometers/remote shutter releases didn't allow useful exposure bracketing, as they easily could. I'm not sure how an external device could add focus bracketing though.

I don't know either but others here say such things are available but haven't given details.

This is something MicahSYL indicated exists. If it did, that would be great, but it still wouldn't excuse the absence of in-body focus bracketing or validate his arguments and analogies to ridiculous hardware features like an attached lens on an ILC.

I am surprised that so many mentioned about Focus Stacking yet have not known that external controller existed years ago, and they have improved over the recent years.

A simple Google search on Focus Stacking with Sony will yield quite a fair YouTube tutorials and information on external controllers for remote control on the A7x series cameras. The commonly known ones are the Cam Ranger 2 and CamFi Pro Plus. Do check it up, and also remote flash/probe controllers that works with A7Rx. Cheers.

OK, I have checked them out. Agreed, I didn't know about them. I was aware of course of doing stacking by complete manual adjustments but it is cumbersome. Then I found it was being incorporated by other manufacturers directly into their cameras. It works well in those other cameras. I waited for Sony to add it.

The Camranger and Camfipro Plus (from the reviews) look like they were designed for an earlier eras cameras. Just not good enough for mirrorless cameras (that have live view by default) and electronic shutters. Too slow for each exposure, you could only use these for quite static images. Agreed, these would be fine for me but not for the many others who use stacking in the field. To use these devices today shortchanges the technology that you spent your money on with modern mirrorless cameras. Also, the CamRanger is very expensive. We are talking nearly $600 Australian. Why should Sony users be paying multi hundreds of dollars extra to duplicate abilities that are in fact built into the Sony but just don't have the relatively simple software controls added. Controls already available on cameras from other companies.

It is a bizarre oversight from Sony that will be costing them sales.

It high res landscape photography, I am afraid focus stacking will not work as expected in the field. As I did mentioned in earlier replies, the slightest breeze and wind and people movement will be disaster to a focus stack. Shooting a fly in high resolution even the mere movement of its feelers will ruin a stack.


Just the feelers slightest movement, and the stack is gone. This is an 2 cm tiger moth.

Thanks for pointing out the various reasons why it is benefit to have it. Just like the 200MP pixel shift function, which I don't use at all, so to some it might not be critical, but to some it might be. Cheers.

--
The wonders in the tapestry of this Universe, demand a Greater Wonder.

In landscape the normal procedure is to load the images into layers and manually blend the layers, keeping anything moving using the same layer. If you be are just loading into a stacking program it will cause lots of grief.

I can see the benefit of shooting a sequence of images quickly from a single shutter press but when I stack my landscapes I am choosing specific focus points based on the various subjects and their relative positions. So unlikely to use it.



for macro work I would love the feature.

 

[MicahSYL]

Are there any accessories that allow focus bracketing? I abandoned Panasonic because I couldn't find any device that would allow me to exposure bracket more than 1 EV apart (I wish reviewers would hammer Panasonic over this ridiculous limitation). I don't know why intervalometers/remote shutter releases didn't allow useful exposure bracketing, as they easily could. I'm not sure how an external device could add focus bracketing though.

I don't know either but others here say such things are available but haven't given details.

This is something MicahSYL indicated exists. If it did, that would be great, but it still wouldn't excuse the absence of in-body focus bracketing or validate his arguments and analogies to ridiculous hardware features like an attached lens on an ILC.

I am surprised that so many mentioned about Focus Stacking yet have not known that external controller existed years ago, and they have improved over the recent years.

A simple Google search on Focus Stacking with Sony will yield quite a fair YouTube tutorials and information on external controllers for remote control on the A7x series cameras. The commonly known ones are the Cam Ranger 2 and CamFi Pro Plus. Do check it up, and also remote flash/probe controllers that works with A7Rx. Cheers.

OK, I have checked them out. Agreed, I didn't know about them. I was aware of course of doing stacking by complete manual adjustments but it is cumbersome. Then I found it was being incorporated by other manufacturers directly into their cameras. It works well in those other cameras. I waited for Sony to add it.

The Camranger and Camfipro Plus (from the reviews) look like they were designed for an earlier eras cameras. Just not good enough for mirrorless cameras (that have live view by default) and electronic shutters. Too slow for each exposure, you could only use these for quite static images. Agreed, these would be fine for me but not for the many others who use stacking in the field. To use these devices today shortchanges the technology that you spent your money on with modern mirrorless cameras. Also, the CamRanger is very expensive. We are talking nearly $600 Australian. Why should Sony users be paying multi hundreds of dollars extra to duplicate abilities that are in fact built into the Sony but just don't have the relatively simple software controls added. Controls already available on cameras from other companies.

It is a bizarre oversight from Sony that will be costing them sales.

It high res landscape photography, I am afraid focus stacking will not work as expected in the field. As I did mentioned in earlier replies, the slightest breeze and wind and people movement will be disaster to a focus stack. Shooting a fly in high resolution even the mere movement of its feelers will ruin a stack.


Just the feelers slightest movement, and the stack is gone. This is an 2 cm tiger moth.

Thanks for pointing out the various reasons why it is benefit to have it. Just like the 200MP pixel shift function, which I don't use at all, so to some it might not be critical, but to some it might be. Cheers.

In landscape the normal procedure is to load the images into layers and manually blend the layers, keeping anything moving using the same layer. If you be are just loading into a stacking program it will cause lots of grief.
I can see the benefit of shooting a sequence of images quickly from a single shutter press but when I stack my landscapes I am choosing specific focus points based on the various subjects and their relative positions. So unlikely to use it.

for macro work I would love the feature.

Thanks for the insight, basically I don't see myself doing landscape focus merging, as I find that distant (close to infinity) landscape can be sharp just by using sharp lenses, large f.stop and tripod. Maybe I am lazy in doing it frame by frame adjustments as you had mentioned, which I tried before but did not persist on it. Anyway my Sony 24-105mm F4 at F8 (my 16-35mm,and also the SY AF 18mm) on my A7R4 already are giving me very impressive sharpness and details which I do not see a need to further improve on DoF. You may have a greater thirst/taste for DoF than me.

Yes, I normally put the macro stack into Affinity, but if the stack failed due to movement, then I do go into frame by frame analysis to filter out those frames that causes the blurness, but it is too time consuming.

Thanks again for your insightful lnfo. Cheers.

--
The wonders in the tapestry of this Universe, demand a Greater Wonder.

 

[Platographer]

Are there any accessories that allow focus bracketing? I abandoned Panasonic because I couldn't find any device that would allow me to exposure bracket more than 1 EV apart (I wish reviewers would hammer Panasonic over this ridiculous limitation). I don't know why intervalometers/remote shutter releases didn't allow useful exposure bracketing, as they easily could. I'm not sure how an external device could add focus bracketing though.

I don't know either but others here say such things are available but haven't given details.

This is something MicahSYL indicated exists. If it did, that would be great, but it still wouldn't excuse the absence of in-body focus bracketing or validate his arguments and analogies to ridiculous hardware features like an attached lens on an ILC.

I am surprised that so many mentioned about Focus Stacking yet have not known that external controller existed years ago, and they have improved over the recent years.

A simple Google search on Focus Stacking with Sony will yield quite a fair YouTube tutorials and information on external controllers for remote control on the A7x series cameras. The commonly known ones are the Cam Ranger 2 and CamFi Pro Plus. Do check it up, and also remote flash/probe controllers that works with A7Rx. Cheers.

OK, I have checked them out. Agreed, I didn't know about them. I was aware of course of doing stacking by complete manual adjustments but it is cumbersome. Then I found it was being incorporated by other manufacturers directly into their cameras. It works well in those other cameras. I waited for Sony to add it.

The Camranger and Camfipro Plus (from the reviews) look like they were designed for an earlier eras cameras. Just not good enough for mirrorless cameras (that have live view by default) and electronic shutters. Too slow for each exposure, you could only use these for quite static images. Agreed, these would be fine for me but not for the many others who use stacking in the field. To use these devices today shortchanges the technology that you spent your money on with modern mirrorless cameras. Also, the CamRanger is very expensive. We are talking nearly $600 Australian. Why should Sony users be paying multi hundreds of dollars extra to duplicate abilities that are in fact built into the Sony but just don't have the relatively simple software controls added. Controls already available on cameras from other companies.

It is a bizarre oversight from Sony that will be costing them sales.

It high res landscape photography, I am afraid focus stacking will not work as expected in the field. As I did mentioned in earlier replies, the slightest breeze and wind and people movement will be disaster to a focus stack. Shooting a fly in high resolution even the mere movement of its feelers will ruin a stack.


Just the feelers slightest movement, and the stack is gone. This is an 2 cm tiger moth.

Thanks for pointing out the various reasons why it is benefit to have it. Just like the 200MP pixel shift function, which I don't use at all, so to some it might not be critical, but to some it might be. Cheers.

In landscape the normal procedure is to load the images into layers and manually blend the layers, keeping anything moving using the same layer. If you be are just loading into a stacking program it will cause lots of grief.
I can see the benefit of shooting a sequence of images quickly from a single shutter press but when I stack my landscapes I am choosing specific focus points based on the various subjects and their relative positions. So unlikely to use it.

for macro work I would love the feature.

I have never used focus bracketing, but wouldn't it allow you to preselect the focus points for your series of shots so that once you trigger the shutter all shots with exactly the focus you want are taken?

 

[Paul Barnard]

Are there any accessories that allow focus bracketing? I abandoned Panasonic because I couldn't find any device that would allow me to exposure bracket more than 1 EV apart (I wish reviewers would hammer Panasonic over this ridiculous limitation). I don't know why intervalometers/remote shutter releases didn't allow useful exposure bracketing, as they easily could. I'm not sure how an external device could add focus bracketing though.

I don't know either but others here say such things are available but haven't given details.

This is something MicahSYL indicated exists. If it did, that would be great, but it still wouldn't excuse the absence of in-body focus bracketing or validate his arguments and analogies to ridiculous hardware features like an attached lens on an ILC.

I am surprised that so many mentioned about Focus Stacking yet have not known that external controller existed years ago, and they have improved over the recent years.

A simple Google search on Focus Stacking with Sony will yield quite a fair YouTube tutorials and information on external controllers for remote control on the A7x series cameras. The commonly known ones are the Cam Ranger 2 and CamFi Pro Plus. Do check it up, and also remote flash/probe controllers that works with A7Rx. Cheers.

OK, I have checked them out. Agreed, I didn't know about them. I was aware of course of doing stacking by complete manual adjustments but it is cumbersome. Then I found it was being incorporated by other manufacturers directly into their cameras. It works well in those other cameras. I waited for Sony to add it.

The Camranger and Camfipro Plus (from the reviews) look like they were designed for an earlier eras cameras. Just not good enough for mirrorless cameras (that have live view by default) and electronic shutters. Too slow for each exposure, you could only use these for quite static images. Agreed, these would be fine for me but not for the many others who use stacking in the field. To use these devices today shortchanges the technology that you spent your money on with modern mirrorless cameras. Also, the CamRanger is very expensive. We are talking nearly $600 Australian. Why should Sony users be paying multi hundreds of dollars extra to duplicate abilities that are in fact built into the Sony but just don't have the relatively simple software controls added. Controls already available on cameras from other companies.

It is a bizarre oversight from Sony that will be costing them sales.

It high res landscape photography, I am afraid focus stacking will not work as expected in the field. As I did mentioned in earlier replies, the slightest breeze and wind and people movement will be disaster to a focus stack. Shooting a fly in high resolution even the mere movement of its feelers will ruin a stack.


Just the feelers slightest movement, and the stack is gone. This is an 2 cm tiger moth.

Thanks for pointing out the various reasons why it is benefit to have it. Just like the 200MP pixel shift function, which I don't use at all, so to some it might not be critical, but to some it might be. Cheers.

In landscape the normal procedure is to load the images into layers and manually blend the layers, keeping anything moving using the same layer. If you be are just loading into a stacking program it will cause lots of grief.
I can see the benefit of shooting a sequence of images quickly from a single shutter press but when I stack my landscapes I am choosing specific focus points based on the various subjects and their relative positions. So unlikely to use it.

for macro work I would love the feature.

I have never used focus bracketing, but wouldn't it allow you to preselect the focus points for your series of shots so that once you trigger the shutter all shots with exactly the focus you want are taken?

That would be a killer feature but a heck of a user interface challenge.

 

[Platographer]

Are there any accessories that allow focus bracketing? I abandoned Panasonic because I couldn't find any device that would allow me to exposure bracket more than 1 EV apart (I wish reviewers would hammer Panasonic over this ridiculous limitation). I don't know why intervalometers/remote shutter releases didn't allow useful exposure bracketing, as they easily could. I'm not sure how an external device could add focus bracketing though.

I don't know either but others here say such things are available but haven't given details.

This is something MicahSYL indicated exists. If it did, that would be great, but it still wouldn't excuse the absence of in-body focus bracketing or validate his arguments and analogies to ridiculous hardware features like an attached lens on an ILC.

I am surprised that so many mentioned about Focus Stacking yet have not known that external controller existed years ago, and they have improved over the recent years.

A simple Google search on Focus Stacking with Sony will yield quite a fair YouTube tutorials and information on external controllers for remote control on the A7x series cameras. The commonly known ones are the Cam Ranger 2 and CamFi Pro Plus. Do check it up, and also remote flash/probe controllers that works with A7Rx. Cheers.

OK, I have checked them out. Agreed, I didn't know about them. I was aware of course of doing stacking by complete manual adjustments but it is cumbersome. Then I found it was being incorporated by other manufacturers directly into their cameras. It works well in those other cameras. I waited for Sony to add it.

The Camranger and Camfipro Plus (from the reviews) look like they were designed for an earlier eras cameras. Just not good enough for mirrorless cameras (that have live view by default) and electronic shutters. Too slow for each exposure, you could only use these for quite static images. Agreed, these would be fine for me but not for the many others who use stacking in the field. To use these devices today shortchanges the technology that you spent your money on with modern mirrorless cameras. Also, the CamRanger is very expensive. We are talking nearly $600 Australian. Why should Sony users be paying multi hundreds of dollars extra to duplicate abilities that are in fact built into the Sony but just don't have the relatively simple software controls added. Controls already available on cameras from other companies.

It is a bizarre oversight from Sony that will be costing them sales.

It high res landscape photography, I am afraid focus stacking will not work as expected in the field. As I did mentioned in earlier replies, the slightest breeze and wind and people movement will be disaster to a focus stack. Shooting a fly in high resolution even the mere movement of its feelers will ruin a stack.


Just the feelers slightest movement, and the stack is gone. This is an 2 cm tiger moth.

Thanks for pointing out the various reasons why it is benefit to have it. Just like the 200MP pixel shift function, which I don't use at all, so to some it might not be critical, but to some it might be. Cheers.

In landscape the normal procedure is to load the images into layers and manually blend the layers, keeping anything moving using the same layer. If you be are just loading into a stacking program it will cause lots of grief.
I can see the benefit of shooting a sequence of images quickly from a single shutter press but when I stack my landscapes I am choosing specific focus points based on the various subjects and their relative positions. So unlikely to use it.

for macro work I would love the feature.

I have never used focus bracketing, but wouldn't it allow you to preselect the focus points for your series of shots so that once you trigger the shutter all shots with exactly the focus you want are taken?

That would be a killer feature but a heck of a user interface challenge.

Not really. You select the number of shots, select the focus points for each shot, and then press a button to activate the series when you're finished. You can keep cycling through your focus points until you get them right.

 

[lattesweden]

I have never used focus bracketing, but wouldn't it allow you to preselect the focus points for your series of shots so that once you trigger the shutter all shots with exactly the focus you want are taken?

That would be a killer feature but a heck of a user interface challenge.

On Olympus you have the following settings on the focus bracketing screen:

Number of images: 2-999.
Focus steps per image: 1-10.
Wait/delay for flash recycling.

When you have set this, you just press the trigger. The first image is shot where the focus is positioned via AF or MF and then moves more and more towards infinity according to the settings.

The focus steps per image has 1 as the very smallest step the lens can move its focus motor and 10 is simply 10 of those steps jumping at once per image.

It uses the e-shutter and yes, it syncs with flash in that mode.

It shots JPEG and/or RAW and goes with a very high fps until the buffer is full and then it continuous as quick as the card can write.

Is it the perfect solution? No, one can definitely make it more refined, but it works and gets the job done.

And I guess they didn't spend many development days on this code piece all in all (many at the time existing Olympus cameras got it as a firmware update back in 2015 and all new ones since has had it).

--
Best regards
/Anders
----------------------------------------------------
Mirrorless, mirrorless on the wall, say which is the best camera of them all?
Some images:
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/64169208
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/64221482

 

[Paul Barnard]

I have never used focus bracketing, but wouldn't it allow you to preselect the focus points for your series of shots so that once you trigger the shutter all shots with exactly the focus you want are taken?

That would be a killer feature but a heck of a user interface challenge.

On Olympus you have the following settings on the focus bracketing screen:

Number of images: 2-999.
Focus steps per image: 1-10.
Wait/delay for flash recycling.

When you have set this, you just press the trigger. The first image is shot where the focus is positioned via AF or MF and then moves more and more towards infinity according to the settings.

The focus steps per image has 1 as the very smallest step the lens can move its focus motor and 10 is simply 10 of those steps jumping at once per image.

It uses the e-shutter (with a rather slow readout) and yes, it syncs with flash in that mode.

It shots JPEG and/or RAW and goes with a very high fps until the buffer is full and then it continuous as quick as the card can write.

Is it the perfect solution? No, one can definitely make it more refined, but it works and gets the job done.

And I guess they didn't spend many development days on this code piece all in all (many at the time existing Olympus cameras got it as a firmware update back in 2015 and all new ones since has had it).

 

[Platographer]

I have never used focus bracketing, but wouldn't it allow you to preselect the focus points for your series of shots so that once you trigger the shutter all shots with exactly the focus you want are taken?

That would be a killer feature but a heck of a user interface challenge.

On Olympus you have the following settings on the focus bracketing screen:

Number of images: 2-999.
Focus steps per image: 1-10.
Wait/delay for flash recycling.

When you have set this, you just press the trigger. The first image is shot where the focus is positioned via AF or MF and then moves more and more towards infinity according to the settings.

The focus steps per image has 1 as the very smallest step the lens can move its focus motor and 10 is simply 10 of those steps jumping at once per image.

It uses the e-shutter (with a rather slow readout) and yes, it syncs with flash in that mode.

It shots JPEG and/or RAW and goes with a very high fps until the buffer is full and then it continuous as quick as the card can write.

Is it the perfect solution? No, one can definitely make it more refined, but it works and gets the job done.

And I guess they didn't spend many development days on this code piece all in all (many at the time existing Olympus cameras got it as a firmware update back in 2015 and all new ones since has had it).

Yes that’s the normal way for these things to work. Not so useful for me for landscape. The option to set a number of my chosen focus points and cycle through them would be interesting though.

Or at least an option to increase the number of "focus steps" for each image where it will add one focus step to each shot until maxed out. So, for instance, you could set it to two focus steps for six shots, which would create a series the following steps apart: 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7. Or even an option to double the steps each time.

 

[lattesweden]

I have never used focus bracketing, but wouldn't it allow you to preselect the focus points for your series of shots so that once you trigger the shutter all shots with exactly the focus you want are taken?

That would be a killer feature but a heck of a user interface challenge.

On Olympus you have the following settings on the focus bracketing screen:

Number of images: 2-999.
Focus steps per image: 1-10.
Wait/delay for flash recycling.

When you have set this, you just press the trigger. The first image is shot where the focus is positioned via AF or MF and then moves more and more towards infinity according to the settings.

The focus steps per image has 1 as the very smallest step the lens can move its focus motor and 10 is simply 10 of those steps jumping at once per image.

It uses the e-shutter (with a rather slow readout) and yes, it syncs with flash in that mode.

It shots JPEG and/or RAW and goes with a very high fps until the buffer is full and then it continuous as quick as the card can write.

Is it the perfect solution? No, one can definitely make it more refined, but it works and gets the job done.

And I guess they didn't spend many development days on this code piece all in all (many at the time existing Olympus cameras got it as a firmware update back in 2015 and all new ones since has had it).

Yes that’s the normal way for these things to work. Not so useful for me for landscape. The option to set a number of my chosen focus points and cycle through them would be interesting though.

Yes, the "Oly-style" is best used for macro where it performs well. I've done quite many shots with it. It is actually not only good just for macro but for shots where one wants to control the length of the depth of field and go from blur, to sharpness, to blur again.

In a normal photo if your DOF isn't deep enough you need to stop down and then the background gets less blurry. With this technique one can shot at the shallowest aperture and prolong the zone with sharpness by stacking several images. I hope that did come through understandable?

But as you say, for landscapes, it would be better to be able to pick several focus points on the rear LCD and store them. Even better would be if one could alter the exposure as well, or combine the focus bracket with exposure bracket so that the foreground in shadow gets +2 EV and the middle ground 0 EV and the background shot -2 EV or something similar. Yes, it can be done manually quite easy via the mobile app on the A7RII since it has the focus box function via remote that later bodys for some bizarre reason lost, but a proper modern implementation would be nice.

 

[mbo27]

Are there any accessories that allow focus bracketing? I abandoned Panasonic because I couldn't find any device that would allow me to exposure bracket more than 1 EV apart (I wish reviewers would hammer Panasonic over this ridiculous limitation). I don't know why intervalometers/remote shutter releases didn't allow useful exposure bracketing, as they easily could. I'm not sure how an external device could add focus bracketing though.

I don't know either but others here say such things are available but haven't given details.

This is something MicahSYL indicated exists. If it did, that would be great, but it still wouldn't excuse the absence of in-body focus bracketing or validate his arguments and analogies to ridiculous hardware features like an attached lens on an ILC.

I am surprised that so many mentioned about Focus Stacking yet have not known that external controller existed years ago, and they have improved over the recent years.

A simple Google search on Focus Stacking with Sony will yield quite a fair YouTube tutorials and information on external controllers for remote control on the A7x series cameras. The commonly known ones are the Cam Ranger 2 and CamFi Pro Plus. Do check it up, and also remote flash/probe controllers that works with A7Rx. Cheers.

OK, I have checked them out. Agreed, I didn't know about them. I was aware of course of doing stacking by complete manual adjustments but it is cumbersome. Then I found it was being incorporated by other manufacturers directly into their cameras. It works well in those other cameras. I waited for Sony to add it.

The Camranger and Camfipro Plus (from the reviews) look like they were designed for an earlier eras cameras. Just not good enough for mirrorless cameras (that have live view by default) and electronic shutters. Too slow for each exposure, you could only use these for quite static images. Agreed, these would be fine for me but not for the many others who use stacking in the field. To use these devices today shortchanges the technology that you spent your money on with modern mirrorless cameras. Also, the CamRanger is very expensive. We are talking nearly $600 Australian. Why should Sony users be paying multi hundreds of dollars extra to duplicate abilities that are in fact built into the Sony but just don't have the relatively simple software controls added. Controls already available on cameras from other companies.

It is a bizarre oversight from Sony that will be costing them sales.

It high res landscape photography, I am afraid focus stacking will not work as expected in the field. As I did mentioned in earlier replies, the slightest breeze and wind and people movement will be disaster to a focus stack. Shooting a fly in high resolution even the mere movement of its feelers will ruin a stack.


Just the feelers slightest movement, and the stack is gone. This is an 2 cm tiger moth.

Thanks for pointing out the various reasons why it is benefit to have it. Just like the 200MP pixel shift function, which I don't use at all, so to some it might not be critical, but to some it might be. Cheers.

In landscape the normal procedure is to load the images into layers and manually blend the layers, keeping anything moving using the same layer. If you be are just loading into a stacking program it will cause lots of grief.
I can see the benefit of shooting a sequence of images quickly from a single shutter press but when I stack my landscapes I am choosing specific focus points based on the various subjects and their relative positions. So unlikely to use it.

for macro work I would love the feature.

I have never used focus bracketing, but wouldn't it allow you to preselect the focus points for your series of shots so that once you trigger the shutter all shots with exactly the focus you want are taken?

That would be a killer feature but a heck of a user interface challenge.

Not really. The Fuji X-T4 does it already. It allows you to select the old-fashioned way by specifying steps, # shots and steps interval and what have you, but also has a newer option where you just select your 2 focus points (the closest & farthest) and the camera will figure out everything on its own.

In addition to my Fuji, i do have an A7R4 and knew its limitations when I bought it. I always hoped though that Sony would add the compressed lossless raw and focus bracketing at some point as a firmware upgrade (options the Fuji's had for a while). Seeing the A1 features, there is probably hope for the compression option but focus bracketing is very unlikely now.

 

[TN Args]

Why Sony why you did it again. Super camera but don't include my favorite option focus bracketing.

I make pre order it but i think canceled that order.

Now i have think to trade my A9ii to order Canon R5.

I need it because i take much close up pictures with very deep DOF.

All another Companies have it Canon, Nikon, Fuji, Panasonic, Olympus etc....

Shame you Sony.

I read A1specks my finger crossed, but again Sony disappoint us.

I invest to Sony so heavily at i don't want buy another system.

 

[Mike Fewster]

Why Sony why you did it again. Super camera but don't include my favorite option focus bracketing.

I make pre order it but i think canceled that order.

Now i have think to trade my A9ii to order Canon R5.

I need it because i take much close up pictures with very deep DOF.

All another Companies have it Canon, Nikon, Fuji, Panasonic, Olympus etc....

Shame you Sony.

I read A1specks my finger crossed, but again Sony disappoint us.

I invest to Sony so heavily at i don't want buy another system.

Blah blah.

Tell me, do you currently own a single camera with focus bracketing? What model? Does it currently meet your needs?

Since you invest in Sony so heavily, and macro is so important to you, how are you doing focus bracketing now? I assume you are, because it is so critical to you, right? Where is your CamRanger2? Where is your automated focusing rail? These will give you equal or better results than most in- camera versions, so you must already be getting better results and have no need for it in camera.

cheers

Frankly, this is one eyed nonsense. We should honestly acknowledge what our brand of choice doesn't do well. Most of us use our cameras for many different purposes. That's why Sony makes cameras that specialize in high speed or low light and video etc. The A1 is an interesting attempt to try to meet all needs.

Like most users, I have a speciality and mine is landscape and my A7R3 does this exceptionally well. But I have other uses for my camera and some of these the A7R3 doesn't do so well. Focus bracketing is something I (and many others apparently) would like and Sony isn't including it at all.

As has been pointed out here several times, CamRanger 2 or auto focus rails are expensive and cannot do what in camera focus bracketing can do. Have a look at how long it takes CamRanger to shoot a series and compare that to the fraction of a time it takes a camera with focus bracketing to do the same. Have a good look at how this is managed in an Olympus and the control it also gives over lighting. Now you see why many want it in camera?

Further, the Sony cameras already have the expensive stuff built into their cameras. You need good af accuracy and fast focussing lenses and high power processing. These are the expensive bits and Sony does all of these extra well. The software to control these for focus bracketing is relatively straight forward and should be an inexpensive addition.

Your determined defence of the indefensible I can only out down to one of two things. An inability to admit areas where improvement is needed. Or maybe lack of knowledge of the topic?

 

[Thecylon]

Why is there no flash on the A1? Why no 24-300mm lens attached?

There are many things not there, and we needed them, yet we buy the camera bodies.

There are things best done with add-ons to suit every possible needs.

You can have lots of lens to chose from when it is IL camera. You can add all kinds of lighting needs to work with the cameras. You can add the best 3rd party focus bracketing devices and software.

It is not that it is not good to have the focus bracketing, but would it be the best option for everyone's need? Just as lenses. I don't think so. Probably to satisfy some but not all who needs the better options.

If you can afford the A1, you should be able to afford the add-ons for focus stacking, which is transferable between many cameras, you have investment protection + same user interface that you are used to.

Cheers.

It boggles my mind the absurd analogies and arguments that are presented to defend the indefensible by Sony. It seems like you would defend the lack of a shutter button. After all, not everyone needs a shutter button on the camera and, if you can afford the camera, you can afford a remote shutter release. Or how about the ability to control aperture on lenses from the camera? Not everyone uses lenses without a physical aperture control, so that's another dumb feature.

You are comparing a basic and widespread firmware function with a lens or flash coming physically attached to the camera. First of all, obviously those are hardware additions, so it would result in a large price increase per unit (especially so with the lens). Not so with focus bracketing. Second, the Alpha series is an ILC series. Having an attached lens would mean it is not an ILC anymore, which would restrict its functionality. Again, not so with focus bracketing, which wouldn't restrict any functioning and would only add a basic, but important, firmware function. You make it seem like having an option for focus bracketing would interfere with some users' needs, when that is clearly not true. Do you use exposure bracketing? If not, do you care that it is a feature in the firmware? Does it hurt you to have that option? Of course not.

Any true fan of Sony would want Sony to stop artificially crippling their cameras with the absence of a simple firmware feature common on just about every other brand that would cost Sony virtually nothing to add.

Fully agreed, I am being absurd. It is to bring out the absurdity that a camera should incorporate every functions to be acceptable. I don't need a flash on the A1, nor a fixed lens, neither the many bells and whistles but that it performs its main function extreeeeeeemely well. I can afford external software and devices to handle the BETTER bells and whistles, if I can afford the camera body. Cheers.

So you admit your analogy is inapposite. Focus stacking is not a bell or a whistle. It's a firmware feature. You do understand the difference between hardware and software, right?

When I refers to hardware and software, they are for external hardware and software to coordinate the probe/flash lightning (not needed if only constant lightning used, but often the effect is clinical) and also perform the focus shift with intervals on the camera.

Anything not primary to the main functions can be treated as bells and whistles, just like the A7R4 huge 240MP or the A1 200MPx using pixel shift, but this is critical for architectural photographers. Good to have but not primary functions. Cheers.

What add-on would you recommend to do focus stacking for products? Link to purchase?

If someone is having to switch brands or rent another brand it seems like a critical function.

Personally not top of my list but I don't suppose to be the one photographer that gets to decide what is important for others.

Andrew

I had reply in an earlier reply. But it is easier if you just Google on Focus Stacking devices for Sony. Cam Ranger 2, CamFi pro, are the 2 commonly used for various brands of cameras not just Sony. There are software that works with Sony Imaging Edge to automate the focus bracketing. It will not be as professional as Phase One XP, but you can get a reasonable approach.

Sorry I am not deciding for anyone whether to buy an A1, as this feature is NOT THERE at all. You cannot buy an A1 with focus bracketing period. We are discussing if Sony had failed to satisfy her customers. I am pointing out that there are ways to achieve it, and of course many will not like to have it as add-on.

I guess I better stop here, as the thread is about the feature and not the work around.

Cheers.

I looked into these a while ago. It is supposed to be extremely slow.

Lack of bracketing is why I am getting a fuji 100s rather than a1. I own an a7riv, riii, and a9. No bracketing is frustrating and the defense of its absense is ridiculous.

 

[Paul Barnard]

I have never used focus bracketing, but wouldn't it allow you to preselect the focus points for your series of shots so that once you trigger the shutter all shots with exactly the focus you want are taken?

That would be a killer feature but a heck of a user interface challenge.

On Olympus you have the following settings on the focus bracketing screen:

Number of images: 2-999.
Focus steps per image: 1-10.
Wait/delay for flash recycling.

When you have set this, you just press the trigger. The first image is shot where the focus is positioned via AF or MF and then moves more and more towards infinity according to the settings.

The focus steps per image has 1 as the very smallest step the lens can move its focus motor and 10 is simply 10 of those steps jumping at once per image.

It uses the e-shutter (with a rather slow readout) and yes, it syncs with flash in that mode.

It shots JPEG and/or RAW and goes with a very high fps until the buffer is full and then it continuous as quick as the card can write.

Is it the perfect solution? No, one can definitely make it more refined, but it works and gets the job done.

And I guess they didn't spend many development days on this code piece all in all (many at the time existing Olympus cameras got it as a firmware update back in 2015 and all new ones since has had it).

Yes that’s the normal way for these things to work. Not so useful for me for landscape. The option to set a number of my chosen focus points and cycle through them would be interesting though.

Yes, the "Oly-style" is best used for macro where it performs well. I've done quite many shots with it. It is actually not only good just for macro but for shots where one wants to control the length of the depth of field and go from blur, to sharpness, to blur again.

In a normal photo if your DOF isn't deep enough you need to stop down and then the background gets less blurry. With this technique one can shot at the shallowest aperture and prolong the zone with sharpness by stacking several images. I hope that did come through understandable?

But as you say, for landscapes, it would be better to be able to pick several focus points on the rear LCD and store them. Even better would be if one could alter the exposure as well, or combine the focus bracket with exposure bracket so that the foreground in shadow gets +2 EV and the middle ground 0 EV and the background shot -2 EV or something similar. Yes, it can be done manually quite easy via the mobile app on the A7RII since it has the focus box function via remote that later bodys for some bizarre reason lost, but a proper modern implementation would be nice.