Beginner with a Canon 350d

[Haribo1681]

Hi all!

As the title suggests, I'm very much a beginner, but looking for some guidance to get started really.

I borrowed a Canon 350d about a year ago for a couple of work projects (taking photos in a classroom and a coffee shop) and on advice I bought a Canon 50mm f1.8 lens to help with taking photos indoors. At the time I was really disappointed with the results as I didn't really know how to use all the settings of the camera so all my photos were either blurry, underexposed or really noisy (I was only using the auto function, as I'd used a 600d in a previous job and that worked just fine in pretty much all conditions).

In the meantime, I've learned a lot more about the different settings but I'm still very disappointed with all the photos I take - I might take 50/60 photos in the highest possible resolution and maybe 3-4 aren't terrible, which for the time it takes to upload them is very demoralising, so I end up not bothering and just using my iPhone 12 instead.

I really want to improve and use a 'proper' camera more, so I'm considering investing a bit of money and time over the next few months to see where it gets me. For my work, I'll hopefully be visiting more schools to hold interviews with teachers & pupils (I'll do the video work on my iPhone) and more shots in my partner's coffee shop/restaurant. Eventually I'd also like to take sport, wildlife and travel photos too, so a bit of everything really.

So, here's the question - should I spend some money and, if so, what on? Would a new camera be a good investment or should I stick with what I have and maybe purchase a new lens? As mentioned, I have the 50mm and two kit lenses that came with camera originally (18-45 and 35-80), so if I were to buy a new camera I'd like to keep them so I'm probably looking at a Canon DSLR rather than a mirrorless, but again I don't really know for sure and I can see the benefits of having a small, lightweight mirrorless. I've done a lot of reading online and I can see pros and cons for Canon 250d, 850d, M50 and M6 mkiii, which probably just indicates that I don't have a clear idea of what would be best.

Anyway, apologies for the long post - any advice would be gratefully received!

Andy.

 

[Klaus dk]

Welcome to DPReview.

While the 350D and the lenses you have is neither the latest nor the greatest, you have everything you need for learning the basics, unless of course it is broken.

The weakest point is low light performance, so if all your attempts are shot indoors, that may be the cause of your problems.

Sometimes, blur is caused by camera or subject motion. To remedy that, a shorter exposure time is key. If the scene is poorly lit or the aperture is very small (high f-number), this may not be possible. A tripod will mitigate camera shake, but can't help if the subject moves. Another remedy could be to add light, the camera has a built-in flash, and several speedlights are available.

Another source of blur is missed focus. Make sure to set the lens AF/MF switch to AF and find out how to use the focus points correctly. The manual (available online) should be able to assist you with that. Autofocus can have trouble focusing in low light, but let's no go into that in the beginning.

Beginners will sometimes confuse shallow depth of field with blur. Especially with the 50/1.8 at f/1.8, you will see that something is sharp and in focus, while other elements of the picture are blurred. A wide aperture will cause shallow depth of field. This is often used for effect, especially in portraits. Once you learn how to use focus points to your advantage, you'll learn to appreciate this technique.

At very narrow apertures, you may see blur caused by diffraction. This is less important for now.

Noise usually comes from low exposure, often caused by setting the ISO too high for the scene. While you learn, shoot in daylight to keep that variable out of the equation.

Could you try to classify the errors you see based on these tips? Share a few of your less successful shots, preferably unedited and with exif intact, to give us more info to work on.

Until you get a better understanding of shooting parameters, I'd recommend you don't throw money at the problem. The 350D was a fine camera for it's day and I've seen great shots made with it, so the most probable cause of your problems could be the photographer (with all due respect).

 

[KCook]

In the meantime, I've learned a lot more about the different settings but I'm still very disappointed with all the photos I take - I might take 50/60 photos in the highest possible resolution and maybe 3-4 aren't terrible

That should not have been the outcome. Post 2 or 3 of the disappointing photos here, along with you thinking that went into the settings. Then we can try to help with suggestions.

Kelly Cook

 

[Haribo1681]

That's great advice, thank you - you've pretty much summed up most of the things I've seen or read across the internet in less than 100 words!

So, I think the majority of issue comes down to expecting miracles in low light - trying to shoot indoors using aperture settings between f2.2-3.5 to try and get more light in, the highest ISO setting on the camera (1600) and still needing shutter speed as low as 1/30 to try and get the light meter reading anywhere near the middle.

Here's a load of photos I've taken recently of random things - mostly stuff lying around the house (and especially the pets - I feel sorry for them!)

I'm definitely finding it easier to be a bit more consistent when taking outdoors with so much light - which seems obvious, but I'm very much a beginner.

It just feels to me like none of these are really sharp, but am I expecting too much?


ISO 200 f3.5 1/125






ISO 400 f/4 1/250 (18-55 lens at 25mm)




ISO 1600 f2.2 1/50




ISO 800 f/3.2 1/60




ISO 100 f/3.2 1/1000




ISO 100 f/3.2 1/250




ISO 100 f/2.2 1/3200




ISO 100 f/2.2 1/4000




ISO 800 f/2.2 1/125

 

[Haribo1681]

Thank you! Here's a couple of examples - I think (based on feedback on this post from another user), that I'm probably expecting a bit too much in low light, but I'm also not really getting things in focus like I'd like to. Here's a couple of examples: -

 

[KCook]

#1 is what you have to expect from an old 350D at very high ISO. A newer body would be a benefit there.

#2 is Ok for straight out of the camera, needs sharpening with a photo editor.

#3 is a teeny bit over exposed. Showing pet fur well is a challenge with any camera.

For so much indoor photography I would suggest learning to use a speedlight instead of dumping a lot of $$ into a high performance kit.

outdoorguy

 

[PhotoTeach2]

Welcome to DPReview.

While the 350D and the lenses you have is neither the latest nor the greatest, you have everything you need for learning the basics, unless of course it is broken.

The weakest point is low light performance, so if all your attempts are shot indoors, that may be the cause of your problems.

Sometimes, blur is caused by camera or subject motion. To remedy that, a shorter exposure time is key. If the scene is poorly lit or the aperture is very small (high f-number), this may not be possible. A tripod will mitigate camera shake, but can't help if the subject moves. Another remedy could be to add light, the camera has a built-in flash, and several speedlights are available.

Another source of blur is missed focus. Make sure to set the lens AF/MF switch to AF and find out how to use the focus points correctly. The manual (available online) should be able to assist you with that. Autofocus can have trouble focusing in low light, but let's no go into that in the beginning.

Beginners will sometimes confuse shallow depth of field with blur. Especially with the 50/1.8 at f/1.8, you will see that something is sharp and in focus, while other elements of the picture are blurred. A wide aperture will cause shallow depth of field. This is often used for effect, especially in portraits. Once you learn how to use focus points to your advantage, you'll learn to appreciate this technique.

At very narrow apertures, you may see blur caused by diffraction. This is less important for now.

Noise usually comes from low exposure, often caused by setting the ISO too high for the scene. While you learn, shoot in daylight to keep that variable out of the equation.

Could you try to classify the errors you see based on these tips? Share a few of your less successful shots, preferably unedited and with exif intact, to give us more info to work on.

Until you get a better understanding of shooting parameters, I'd recommend you don't throw money at the problem. The 350D was a fine camera for it's day and I've seen great shots made with it, so the most probable cause of your problems could be the photographer (with all due respect).

Excellent post ... +1

 

[Haribo1681]

That's cool, thank you - I'll have a look at speedlights to see what I can find out and will keep practicing to find out more about the effects of all the settings. If nothing else it's good to know that the kit I haven't isn't a complete cut-de-sac!

 

[PhotoTeach2]

That's cool, thank you - I'll have a look at speedlights to see what I can find out and will keep practicing to find out more about the effects of all the settings. If nothing else it's good to know that the kit I haven't isn't a complete cut-de-sac!

But the 350D already has a (pop-up) flash that may be adequate for your indoor needs.

 

[Leonard Migliore]

That's cool, thank you - I'll have a look at speedlights to see what I can find out and will keep practicing to find out more about the effects of all the settings. If nothing else it's good to know that the kit I haven't isn't a complete cut-de-sac!

But the 350D already has a (pop-up) flash that may be adequate for your indoor needs.

But that only works for direct flash, which is fine for fill flash but not so good as the main illumination.

Bounce flash with a speedlight gives very good results indoors.

 

[nieve5552]

I've had similar issues to what you're experiencing as well, trying to lower shutter speed to compensate for the light. When handheld 1/30 or 1/60 shutter speed will almost always result in camera shake and lack of sharpness, so probably need to use around 1/200 (or maybe 1/150? Though I've personally experienced camera shake at 1/160) shutter speed minimum and use high iso. For indoor photography I would definitely follow the above posters' recommendations for speedlight/external flash.

With some of your outdoor photos of the inanimate objects, the shutter speed of 1/1000 and 1/4000 are probably unnecessarily high. You could try lowering the shutter speed to 1/500 and decrease the fstop to f.7 or f.8, since that will help keep the subject as sharp as possible while being more forgiving than f.2.5 in case of slight focus miss etc. Also I think it would help to use single point focus if you aren't already using that.

If you do decide to spend some money I would suggest getting some better zoom lenses, since the kit lenses aren't very good quality or sharp. My previous gear was canon 1100D (12mp) with it's corresponding kit lenses which were newer than the 350D kit, and I found it very difficult to produce very sharp photos. Though some could say that could be attributed to user error, I had my first gear upgrade earlier this year and was able to get some very sharp photos right after

Also something I learned for the first time during the gear upgrade... Spend more money on your lens rather than body. Lens quality affects photo quality much more than the camera bodies, and the difference between what higher end lenses and lower end kit lenses can produce is greater than the difference between higher end and lower end camera bodies (especially for still life photography, but probably less so for sports/bird in flight).

So try altering some of the camera settings, try a speedlight - if the results are still unsatisfactory, you could try renting some gear and see if different gear can make it easier. I'd also suggest buying used gear rather than brand new - much cheaper and as long as you do proper pre-purchase checks, perfectly usable!

 

[TacticDesigns]

That's great advice, thank you - you've pretty much summed up most of the things I've seen or read across the internet in less than 100 words!

So, I think the majority of issue comes down to expecting miracles in low light -

Have you tried off camera flash? If not, check out The Stobist.

Strobist

strobist.blogspot.com

With off camera flash, you can add light to the scene.

That will allow you to shoot at f/5.6 or f/8 and still be able to use fast shutter speeds.

The smaller aperture will help to trap focus on your subject. Meaning that the depth-of-field will be large enough to help ensure your subject is in focus.

And the faster shutter speed can mean reduce motion blur.

The added benefit of flash is that the short duration of the flash can help to freeze motion as well.

And . . . getting the flash off the camera means that you can get more creative on how to light your subject!

IMHO don't buy a new camera or lens until you've had a chance to play around with off camera flash. It can open your eyes to an entirely different perspective on photography.

Here is a shot on my APS-C camera shot at ISO 400 / f/2.8.

https://flic.kr/p/qcmGLP

Click on the image to see it up close.

trying to shoot indoors using aperture settings between f2.2-3.5 to try and get more light in, the highest ISO setting on the camera (1600) and still needing shutter speed as low as 1/30 to try and get the light meter reading anywhere near the middle.

Here's a load of photos I've taken recently of random things - mostly stuff lying around the house (and especially the pets - I feel sorry for them!)

I'm definitely finding it easier to be a bit more consistent when taking outdoors with so much light - which seems obvious, but I'm very much a beginner.

It just feels to me like none of these are really sharp, but am I expecting too much?

See my comment above about using flash.

Also . . . the Canon Digital Rebel is limited to ISO 1600.

Which means that if you are not using flash indoors, you will probably run up against motion blur in your pictures.

I had a Nikon D70s which was limited to ISO 1600.

Even after getting a f/2.8 zoom lens to shoot my daughters at indoor sports events, I was still stuck at 1/250 sec shutter speed shooting in the poorly lit gyms that we visited.

My next camera was capable of ISO 3200 (and ISO 6400 if needed).

(If you want to upgrade to get faster than ISO 1600, and you are buying used, I would suggest a T3i or higher. I think the T3i added the capability to trigger an off camera flash wirelessly with full TTL. A useful feature to make using off camera flash much more enjoyable. Or maybe something like the Canon 50D and up. And, if in your budget, I guess a Canon 7D might be an option.)

This made a huge difference in the images I was able to capture.

https://flic.kr/p/bTF4Nz

https://flic.kr/p/bXVgMG

So, faster lens, camera that can do high ISO settings more cleanly . . . and . . . noise reduction software!

What program are you using to clean up your pictures?

After taking pictures . . . two things that can be done in post production (PP) is noise reduction and sharpening.

Both can enhance the picture.

Make a picture less noisey.

And add a bit of sharpening that makes the picture more crisp. Helpful if a picture is slightly soft or out of focus.

Take care & Happy Shooting!

ISO 200 f3.5 1/125


ISO 400 f/4 1/250 (18-55 lens at 25mm)


ISO 1600 f2.2 1/50


ISO 800 f/3.2 1/60


ISO 100 f/3.2 1/1000


ISO 100 f/3.2 1/250


ISO 100 f/2.2 1/3200


ISO 100 f/2.2 1/4000


ISO 800 f/2.2 1/125

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[Haribo1681]

I've had similar issues to what you're experiencing as well, trying to lower shutter speed to compensate for the light. When handheld 1/30 or 1/60 shutter speed will almost always result in camera shake and lack of sharpness, so probably need to use around 1/200 (or maybe 1/150? Though I've personally experienced camera shake at 1/160) shutter speed minimum and use high iso. For indoor photography I would definitely follow the above posters' recommendations for speedlight/external flash.

With some of your outdoor photos of the inanimate objects, the shutter speed of 1/1000 and 1/4000 are probably unnecessarily high. You could try lowering the shutter speed to 1/500 and decrease the fstop to f.7 or f.8, since that will help keep the subject as sharp as possible while being more forgiving than f.2.5 in case of slight focus miss etc. Also I think it would help to use single point focus if you aren't already using that.

If you do decide to spend some money I would suggest getting some better zoom lenses, since the kit lenses aren't very good quality or sharp. My previous gear was canon 1100D (12mp) with it's corresponding kit lenses which were newer than the 350D kit, and I found it very difficult to produce very sharp photos. Though some could say that could be attributed to user error, I had my first gear upgrade earlier this year and was able to get some very sharp photos right after

Also something I learned for the first time during the gear upgrade... Spend more money on your lens rather than body. Lens quality affects photo quality much more than the camera bodies, and the difference between what higher end lenses and lower end kit lenses can produce is greater than the difference between higher end and lower end camera bodies (especially for still life photography, but probably less so for sports/bird in flight).

So try altering some of the camera settings, try a speedlight - if the results are still unsatisfactory, you could try renting some gear and see if different gear can make it easier. I'd also suggest buying used gear rather than brand new - much cheaper and as long as you do proper pre-purchase checks, perfectly usable!

Thats brilliant advice, thank you! I'm still learning what the differences in all settings look liken real life, especially depth of field - but I'm definitely experiencing that a really shallow depth of field can be extremely unforgiving! That said, it seems as though I nearly always need a really wide open aperture to let enough light in, even using max ISO.

In terms of using autofocus, I use it mainly on one shot mode and then I choose a single point of the seven available - I try to stick to either left or right of centre to try and get a better composition, but I find the autofocus really struggles sometimes.

I have my eye on a couple of second hand lenses at the moment, one for wide angle and one for zoom, but not anything super expensive just yet - I'm still reluctant to throw money at a challenge I can probably overcome through practice and increased skill first. That said, buying stuff is fun, so I will probably pick up a speed light and a couple of lenses, then consider a new (second hand) body in 3-6 months time.

Here's a couple more I've taken at different settings in the last few days - I'm not entirely happy with how sharp any of them are, especially the low light ones and particularly as you zoom in, so I'm wondering if either I'm still expecting too much from an old camera or if I'm trying to be too clever as a beginner. The first of these was on the 18-55 kit lens, while the other three were on a 50mm f/1.8.

Thanks again!

 

[KCook]

Those are about as sharp as can be expected straight out of the camera with budget lenses. Applying sharpening with a photo editor would be the next obvious step. Photo editors are available in all prices, including free.

Kelly