Removing R5 internal battery resets overheat timer

Started Aug 20, 2020 | Discussions
SHood Veteran Member • Posts: 5,765
Removing R5 internal battery resets overheat timer
20

Canon needs to come clean on this as removing the internal battery allowed user to do full 8k time limit again and measure temperature did not increase much.  There is definitely a timer for internal recording.  Detailed testing was done by chinese user as linked in article below.

https://www.eoshd.com/8k/removing-internal-battery-resets-eos-r5-overheat-timer-are-canons-pants-now-completely-down/

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kelpdiver Veteran Member • Posts: 4,681
Re: Removing R5 internal battery resets overheat timer

so....problem solved?

just yank your battery and get 2x the recording time?

ntsan Contributing Member • Posts: 969
Re: Removing R5 internal battery resets overheat timer

Not just 2 times, no need to wait a day to record high quality video, can instantly record anything without worry.

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OP SHood Veteran Member • Posts: 5,765
Re: Removing R5 internal battery resets overheat timer
1

kelpdiver wrote:

so....problem solved?

just yank your battery and get 2x the recording time?

As many times as you want if you can easily keep pulling the battery out.  Someone just need to find a way to easily access it while on the go.  This sounds like an opportunity for an enterprising individual.

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Poefolk Regular Member • Posts: 165
Re: Removing R5 internal battery resets overheat timer
24

kelpdiver wrote:

so....problem solved?

just yank your battery and get 2x the recording time?

Yep, just take your camera apart every time it overheats and pull the internal battery; then put your camera back together, input all of your settings which were erased when you pulled the internal battery, and you're good to go.

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OP SHood Veteran Member • Posts: 5,765
Re: Removing R5 internal battery resets overheat timer
2

Poefolk wrote:

kelpdiver wrote:

so....problem solved?

just yank your battery and get 2x the recording time?

Yep, just take your camera apart every time it overheats and pull the internal battery; then put your camera back together, input all of your settings which were erased when you pulled the internal battery, and you're good to go.

A Magic Lantern hack could help resolve this.

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janez Contributing Member • Posts: 594
Re: Removing R5 internal battery resets overheat timer
1

SHood wrote:

Canon needs to come clean on this as removing the internal battery allowed user to do full 8k time limit again and measure temperature did not increase much. There is definitely a timer for internal recording. Detailed testing was done by chinese user as linked in article below.

https://www.eoshd.com/8k/removing-internal-battery-resets-eos-r5-overheat-timer-are-canons-pants-now-completely-down/

Was camera back off during recording? That would explain the temperatures.

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Zeee Forum Pro • Posts: 22,458
Re: Removing R5 internal battery resets overheat timer
23

I call BS again. I went through the Chinese link. The timer kicked in and it shuts down. He waited a few minutes and then disassembled it. Then he puts the battery in and says - "see the time is reset and no heat warning" - but he does not run it after.

I'm no engineer but lets do a some Bill the Science guy stuff. What happens when you have heat trapped in an assembly and you disassemble said assembly?

Also based that sham of a test he did not state how long he had the battery out. Why not? I have a question for him. How long is a piece of string?

Looks like some other people got caught with their pants down - again 

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Zeee Forum Pro • Posts: 22,458
Re: Removing R5 internal battery resets overheat timer
3

SHood wrote:

Poefolk wrote:

kelpdiver wrote:

so....problem solved?

just yank your battery and get 2x the recording time?

Yep, just take your camera apart every time it overheats and pull the internal battery; then put your camera back together, input all of your settings which were erased when you pulled the internal battery, and you're good to go.

A Magic Lantern hack could help resolve this.

Go ahead and have fun with that.

I will again for 50th time say months ago people where asking how are they going to manage the heat in that size of body. No answered "no problems, it will be easily done".

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(unknown member) Regular Member • Posts: 376
Taking it apart, it cools down faster? lol!!!!!
6

So when you take the camera apart and remove all the seals, he thinks it resets a timer and doesn't realize the camera can cool down faster??

The camera clearly poll various sensors and wow! when you let all the heat escape and put the battery back in it find the camera is cool enough to record video again. Yet he thinks its a timer?

Once again a bogus test and a not very bright guy who first made his conclusion and then reports fragments to try desperately to match it,

Horshack Veteran Member • Posts: 8,680
There's another possible way

SHood wrote:

kelpdiver wrote:

so....problem solved?

just yank your battery and get 2x the recording time?

As many times as you want if you can easily keep pulling the battery out. Someone just need to find a way to easily access it while on the go. This sounds like an opportunity for an enterprising individual.

Many cameras don't update the values in NVRAM until they're orderly shutdown, ie when the power-switch is turned to off. They keep the values shadowed in SDRAM until then. This is done both for performance and to reduce wear on the NVRAM. You can see evidence of this on Nikon cameras by abruptly pulling the battery and then plugging it back in - any config/exposure changes from the previous session will be lost.

Canon is a little more clever - they have a latch sensor on their battery doors that performs an orderly shutdown whenever the battery door is opened. This prevents an abrupt shutdown. To work around this someone could tape/jig the door sensor so that it's always pushed-in. The experiment would be as follows:

  1. Find a way to hold the battery door latch sensor in
  2. Power on the camera with the battery door open
  3. Record video to the point of thermal cutoff (but not power-off shutdown)
  4. Pull the battery
  5. Reinsert the battery
  6. See what the available video time is

There's a chance Canon periodically updates the NVRAM during the session (or when video recording stops), esp for something as important as thermal management. In that case it may be necessary to pull the battery while the video is actively recording. This may leave the CFE/SD card in an indeterminate state so it may require a format when the battery is reinserted.

(unknown member) Regular Member • Posts: 376
Re: There's another possible way

Horshack wrote:

SHood wrote:

kelpdiver wrote:

so....problem solved?

just yank your battery and get 2x the recording time?

As many times as you want if you can easily keep pulling the battery out. Someone just need to find a way to easily access it while on the go. This sounds like an opportunity for an enterprising individual.

Many cameras don't update the values in NVRAM until they're orderly shutdown, ie when the power-switch is turned to off. They keep the values shadowed in SDRAM until then. This is done both for performance and to reduce wear on the NVRAM. You can see evidence of this on Nikon cameras by abruptly pulling the battery and then plugging it back in - any config/exposure changes from the previous session will be lost.

Canon is a little more clever - they have a latch sensor on their battery doors that performs an orderly shutdown whenever the battery door is opened. This prevents an abrupt shutdown. To work around this someone could tape/jig the door sensor so that it's always pushed-in. The experiment would be as follows:

  1. Find a way to hold the battery door latch sensor in
  2. Power on the camera with the battery door open
  3. Record video to the point of thermal cutoff (but not power-off shutdown)
  4. Pull the battery
  5. Reinsert the battery
  6. See what the available video time is

There's a chance Canon periodically updates the NVRAM during the session (or when video recording stops), esp for something as important as thermal management. In that case it may be necessary to pull the battery while the video is actively recording. This may leave the CFE/SD card in an indeterminate state so it may require a format when the battery is reinserted.

I have a couple SD cards that I could try it with. I can record 8K 24p IPB.

I'll have to test my duct tape skills on the battery compartment and also hold the battery in tight even though the door is loose.

So if I record for 15 minutes and pull the battery, then see how long record time is? Then maybe record until it over heats?

Then maybe do a control test after the camera cools down and record 15 minutes, stop and start again to see what the record time says? I wonder if it write to NVRAW after the video stops like you said. it might.

kelpdiver Veteran Member • Posts: 4,681
Re: Removing R5 internal battery resets overheat timer
2

Poefolk wrote:

kelpdiver wrote:

so....problem solved?

just yank your battery and get 2x the recording time?

Yep, just take your camera apart every time it overheats and pull the internal battery; then put your camera back together, input all of your settings which were erased when you pulled the internal battery, and you're good to go.

made a lot more sense when one glossed over the meaning of "internal" battery!

OP SHood Veteran Member • Posts: 5,765
60x faster???
6

Willow w wrote:

So when you take the camera apart and remove all the seals, he thinks it resets a timer and doesn't realize the camera can cool down faster??

The camera clearly poll various sensors and wow! when you let all the heat escape and put the battery back in it find the camera is cool enough to record video again. Yet he thinks its a timer?

Once again a bogus test and a not very bright guy who first made his conclusion and then reports fragments to try desperately to match it,

Only if you believe it takes 60x longer to cool down without the camera back removed (2 min vs 2 hrs before access to full video run times)

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gavin
gavin Veteran Member • Posts: 8,027
Re: Removing R5 internal battery resets overheat timer
4

OK I am not sure what "come clean " means. The camera does what they say. Now you can convince them to give more latitude. Also nobody knows why the limit was set and I am going to guess its for protecting the electronics.

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Canochrome Regular Member • Posts: 351
Re: Removing R5 internal battery resets overheat timer

kelpdiver wrote:

Poefolk wrote:

kelpdiver wrote:

so....problem solved?

just yank your battery and get 2x the recording time?

Yep, just take your camera apart every time it overheats and pull the internal battery; then put your camera back together, input all of your settings which were erased when you pulled the internal battery, and you're good to go.

made a lot more sense when one glossed over the meaning of "internal" battery!

So is there an internal battery, like that little button battery found on some motherboards of PCs?

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Tom

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(unknown member) Regular Member • Posts: 376
Re: 60x faster???

SHood wrote:

Willow w wrote:

So when you take the camera apart and remove all the seals, he thinks it resets a timer and doesn't realize the camera can cool down faster??

The camera clearly poll various sensors and wow! when you let all the heat escape and put the battery back in it find the camera is cool enough to record video again. Yet he thinks its a timer?

Once again a bogus test and a not very bright guy who first made his conclusion and then reports fragments to try desperately to match it,

Only if you believe it takes 60x longer to cool down without the camera back removed (2 min vs 2 hrs before access to full video run times)

I doubt 2 minutes.  Probably 10-15 total, and yeah it might cool down that fast.

Tony D Senior Member • Posts: 1,019
Re: Removing R5 internal battery resets overheat timer
5

O let me just pull the backup battery and main battery from my laptop/car/other device, which has just been processing a pile of Lightroom images so the fans running like hell. Let me put it back in, well now the fans not running so it's been 'Canon hammered'. I don't care I've lost some images cos I pulled the power and probably have lost a pile of settings and maybe fried some components. And, surprise, I've reset any thermal protections which rely on SW/FW

This is getting silly.......

So Canon said it could do 8K, they then made it clear it was time limited, probably due to multiple heating factors (CFExpress cards, Digic processor, main body memory etc.).

Now we are all wasting time trying to

  • Prove its not planned this way
    • Read page 902 of the manual, which was available before the product release and indicates max. recording time is ~20 mins at room temperature (what ever that is)
  • Arguing over various tests proving it does or does not meet what Canon promised
  • Not using it to take images within its limits
  • Thinking up new test
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Zeee Forum Pro • Posts: 22,458
Re: Removing R5 internal battery resets overheat timer

Tony D wrote:

O let me just pull the backup battery and main battery from my laptop/car/other device, which has just been processing a pile of Lightroom images so the fans running like hell. Let me put it back in, well now the fans not running so it's been 'Canon hammered'. I don't care I've lost some images cos I pulled the power and probably have lost a pile of settings and maybe fried some components. And, surprise, I've reset any thermal protections which rely on SW/FW

This is getting silly.......

So Canon said it could do 8K, they then made it clear it was time limited, probably due to multiple heating factors (CFExpress cards, Digic processor, main body memory etc.).

Now we are all wasting time trying to

  • Prove its not planned this way
    • Read page 902 of the manual, which was available before the product release and indicates max. recording time is ~20 mins at room temperature (what ever that is)

The manual? What's that? Why do I need it when I have EOSDHD to guide me.

  • Arguing over various tests proving it does or does not meet what Canon promised
  • Not using it to take images within its limits
  • Thinking up new test
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Another one bites the dust. I feel even more confident that soon things will have a wonderful conclusion

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Tony D Senior Member • Posts: 1,019
Re: Removing R5 internal battery resets overheat timer

Zeee wrote:

Tony D wrote:

O let me just pull the backup battery and main battery from my laptop/car/other device, which has just been processing a pile of Lightroom images so the fans running like hell. Let me put it back in, well now the fans not running so it's been 'Canon hammered'. I don't care I've lost some images cos I pulled the power and probably have lost a pile of settings and maybe fried some components. And, surprise, I've reset any thermal protections which rely on SW/FW

This is getting silly.......

So Canon said it could do 8K, they then made it clear it was time limited, probably due to multiple heating factors (CFExpress cards, Digic processor, main body memory etc.).

Now we are all wasting time trying to

  • Prove its not planned this way
    • Read page 902 of the manual, which was available before the product release and indicates max. recording time is ~20 mins at room temperature (what ever that is)

The manual? What's that? Why do I need it when I have EOSDHD to guide me.

Never use them myself either (most time you can work it out or someone enlightens you) - just opened the pdf version and searched it to see if it was in there.........:-D

  • Arguing over various tests proving it does or does not meet what Canon promised
  • Not using it to take images within its limits
  • Thinking up new test
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