Olympus 12-45mm F4 lens lacks MSC (silent autofocus) feature

[Dostoy]

I tried one of the new 12-45mm lenses the other day, and the compact size (even when zoomed to 45mm) and low weight are very appealing. It's great that Olympus is giving buyers the choice of both this and the 12-40mm lens.

However, it's worth noting that this lens seems to lack "MSC" AF -- that is, the "Movie and Stills Compatible" silent autofocus which nearly M.Zuiko lens have. Although the 12-45mm lens' autofocus sound is not loud, it is definitely there.

The lens box has "Australian Version" printed on the side, so I don't know if other regions get a MSC version of the lens. But here in Australia, that feature is definitely missing.

 

[Adam-T]

I wonder why when even the cheapest Kit lenses - the 14-42R and 40-150R get it .... Seems bizarre to me unless the motor in the 12-45 is faster than a low cost MSC motor would be in that lens and using the Voice Coil one from the 12-40 may push production costs up ? ...... Just Speculating of course

--
** Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist **

 

[Astrotripper]

I tried one of the new 12-45mm lenses the other day [...]

However, it's worth noting that this lens seems to lack "MSC" AF -- that is, the "Movie and Stills Compatible" silent autofocus which nearly M.Zuiko lens have.

Pretty sure 12-45 has it too. They don't seem to make a big deal out of it, as MSC is now basically standard for all Olympus lenses as far as I can tell. But they still list it as MSC in USA.

Although the 12-45mm lens' autofocus sound is not loud, it is definitely there.

In movie mode?

MSC does not mean that AF is completely silent. It just means that it is inaudible in move mode. All of my MSC capable lenses have audible (albeit very quiet) AF in stills.

The lens box has "Australian Version" printed on the side, so I don't know if other regions get a MSC version of the lens.

I assure you that Olympus did not release multiple versions of a lens using different focus motors. They are all the same.

But here in Australia, that feature is definitely missing.

I'm not convinced. Can you check in movie mode?

 

[AlmostDoctor]

I tried one of the new 12-45mm lenses the other day, and the compact size (even when zoomed to 45mm) and low weight are very appealing. It's great that Olympus is giving buyers the choice of both this and the 12-40mm lens.

However, it's worth noting that this lens seems to lack "MSC" AF -- that is, the "Movie and Stills Compatible" silent autofocus which nearly M.Zuiko lens have. Although the 12-45mm lens' autofocus sound is not loud, it is definitely there.

The lens box has "Australian Version" printed on the side, so I don't know if other regions get a MSC version of the lens. But here in Australia, that feature is definitely missing.

--
Dostoy, from Oz
(Oz = Australia)

Is the AF sound actually audible in movie? That could actually affect my decision.

 

[Firmware]

I tried one of the new 12-45mm lenses the other day, and the compact size (even when zoomed to 45mm) and low weight are very appealing. It's great that Olympus is giving buyers the choice of both this and the 12-40mm lens.

However, it's worth noting that this lens seems to lack "MSC" AF -- that is, the "Movie and Stills Compatible" silent autofocus which nearly M.Zuiko lens have. Although the 12-45mm lens' autofocus sound is not loud, it is definitely there.

The lens box has "Australian Version" printed on the side, so I don't know if other regions get a MSC version of the lens. But here in Australia, that feature is definitely missing.

 

[Skeeterbytes]

It's listed in the specs as MSC and I cannot recall the last Oly lens not so-designated. I do not see a motor spec for it and guess it has a stepper motor and not a voice coil motor like the 12-40 has. Those are truly silent.

The aperture drive has to be considered separately from the focus motor as a potential noise source.

Cheers,

Rick

 

[Dostoy]

I’ve taken a close look at the lens section on the Australian website for Olympus. Under “features”, many of the lenses seem to include a reference to MSC, but it’s not mentioned at all in relation to the 12-45mm F4 lens.

Overall, Olympus have done a great job with the lens design — but as I’m used to silent autofocus, I was just a bit surprised when I tried the lens and heard the AF sound (with the lens mounted on a EM1.1).

--

Dostoy, from Oz
(Oz = Australia)

 

[kmax47]

My 12-45 makes exactly the same sound(s) as my 45 1.8, which has the letters MSC on it.

 

[David Mantripp]

None of the PRO lenses have "MSC" actually written on the lens.... Nor indeed "glass inside"

 

[kmax47]

 

[glassoholic]

I think this is being over thought. It's like car manufacturers not putting "Internal Combustion Design" in the product description of all petrol engine cars and people questioning whether it actually is... there is no way the 12-45 Pro would get an inferior (noisier) focus mechanism than the 14-42 kit lens.

 

[Dostoy]

Seeing as several people replied to the thread, I contacted Olympus today to ask about this. After checking, the Olympus staff member confirmed that the 12-45mm lens does NOT have the MSC feature.

(The Olympus staff member also mentioned that my E-M1 (original version) would only use contrast detection AF with this lens, while the latest Olympus bodies would use phase detection, for faster AF.)

Please note that I still think this is a great lens. The question of "MSC or not" is just something that caught my curiosity.

Looking back at the press release for this lens, it mentions "high-speed, precise autofocus". So it may be that, given the compact-as-possible design, a choice had to be made between silent AF and high-speed AF. And certainly, speedy AF is more important!

--

Dostoy, from Oz
(Oz = Australia)

 

[glassoholic]

Seeing as several people replied to the thread, I contacted Olympus today to ask about this. After checking, the Olympus staff member confirmed that the 12-45mm lens does NOT have the MSC feature.

(The Olympus staff member also mentioned that my E-M1 (original version) would only use contrast detection AF with this lens, while the latest Olympus bodies would use phase detection, for faster AF.)

Please note that I still think this is a great lens. The question of "MSC or not" is just something that caught my curiosity.

Looking back at the press release for this lens, it mentions "high-speed, precise autofocus". So it may be that, given the compact-as-possible design, a choice had to be made between silent AF and high-speed AF. And certainly, speedy AF is more important!

--

Dostoy, from Oz
(Oz = Australia)

"Staff" from Olympus, or any other manufacturer, rarely know the gear that well. The fact that they said the EM1.1 will not use PDAF is laughable... the MSC answer needs to be treated with the same hilarity.

 

[cba_melbourne]

Seeing as several people replied to the thread, I contacted Olympus today to ask about this. After checking, the Olympus staff member confirmed that the 12-45mm lens does NOT have the MSC feature.

(The Olympus staff member also mentioned that my E-M1 (original version) would only use contrast detection AF with this lens, while the latest Olympus bodies would use phase detection, for faster AF.)

Please note that I still think this is a great lens. The question of "MSC or not" is just something that caught my curiosity.

Looking back at the press release for this lens, it mentions "high-speed, precise autofocus". So it may be that, given the compact-as-possible design, a choice had to be made between silent AF and high-speed AF. And certainly, speedy AF is more important!

"Staff" from Olympus, or any other manufacturer, rarely know the gear that well. The fact that they said the EM1.1 will not use PDAF is laughable... the MSC answer needs to be treated with the same hilarity.

The 12-45 is much smaller than the 12-40. It looks like the useful and desirable focus clutch, that can be found in most other pro lenses, has fallen victim to this size (and cost?) reduction.

I would not be surprised if the MSC linear voice coil motor had also fallen victim to size (and cost?) reduction. The picture below is from the 12-40 lens description on the Olympus website, and as you can see the linear motor occupies some considerable space within the lens:



There is simply no mention of this on the 12-45 page. Just as there is no mention of the focus clutch. So the conclusion that both are missing, is maybe not that far fetched.

You are right that office "staff" often do not know about those things. But in that case, my experience is that they ask at the factory and come back with sound information.

Why should a "staff" person not in the know, invent something at first sight as unrelated and intricate as the PDAF issue on the EM1.1? I believe this bit of information is just repeating what he got back from the factory.

 

[Adam-T]

"MSC" means Movie and Still Compatible, that`s all .. it doesn't necessarily mean "Totally silent expensive linear motor" or totally silent anything , just Compatible and fast enough to be usable in video

I don`t think for one minute that the ultra cheap 14-42-IIR and 40-150R Kit lenses costing around £100-£125 each have the same Linear motors in as the 12-40 F2.8 but they ARE "MSC" lenses .... are they totally silent - I don`t remember them to be so ..

 

[glassoholic]

Seeing as several people replied to the thread, I contacted Olympus today to ask about this. After checking, the Olympus staff member confirmed that the 12-45mm lens does NOT have the MSC feature.

(The Olympus staff member also mentioned that my E-M1 (original version) would only use contrast detection AF with this lens, while the latest Olympus bodies would use phase detection, for faster AF.)

Please note that I still think this is a great lens. The question of "MSC or not" is just something that caught my curiosity.

Looking back at the press release for this lens, it mentions "high-speed, precise autofocus". So it may be that, given the compact-as-possible design, a choice had to be made between silent AF and high-speed AF. And certainly, speedy AF is more important!

"Staff" from Olympus, or any other manufacturer, rarely know the gear that well. The fact that they said the EM1.1 will not use PDAF is laughable... the MSC answer needs to be treated with the same hilarity.

The 12-45 is much smaller than the 12-40. It looks like the useful and desirable focus clutch, that can be found in most other pro lenses, has fallen victim to this size (and cost?) reduction.

I would not be surprised if the MSC linear voice coil motor had also fallen victim to size (and cost?) reduction. The picture below is from the 12-40 lens description on the Olympus website, and as you can see the linear motor occupies some considerable space within the lens:



There is simply no mention of this on the 12-45 page. Just as there is no mention of the focus clutch. So the conclusion that both are missing, is maybe not that far fetched.

You are right that office "staff" often do not know about those things. But in that case, my experience is that they ask at the factory and come back with sound information.

Why should a "staff" person not in the know, invent something at first sight as unrelated and intricate as the PDAF issue on the EM1.1? I believe this bit of information is just repeating what he got back from the factory.

In doubt the "factory" got involved and whether the staff member invented it, or someone else didn't understand the question or else the answer got twisted. The EM1 series all use PDAF on any lens. The EM1.1 uses a combo of PDAF and CDAF in the CAF mode. For the EM1.1 to not ever use PDAF because of a particular lens being "incompatible" is an impossibility. Even the old FT adapted lenses work properly in PDAF mode only. To make a lens CDAF only would be a step backwards 20 years. Panasonic, which does not have PDAF bodies, have all their lenses working in PDAF CAF mode on EM1 series and EM5.3.

--
Addicted To Glass
M43 equivalence: "Twice the fun with half the weight"
"You are a long time dead" -
Credit to whoever said that first and my wife for saying it to me... Make the best you can of every day!

 

[cba_melbourne]

Seeing as several people replied to the thread, I contacted Olympus today to ask about this. After checking, the Olympus staff member confirmed that the 12-45mm lens does NOT have the MSC feature.

(The Olympus staff member also mentioned that my E-M1 (original version) would only use contrast detection AF with this lens, while the latest Olympus bodies would use phase detection, for faster AF.)

Please note that I still think this is a great lens. The question of "MSC or not" is just something that caught my curiosity.

Looking back at the press release for this lens, it mentions "high-speed, precise autofocus". So it may be that, given the compact-as-possible design, a choice had to be made between silent AF and high-speed AF. And certainly, speedy AF is more important!

"Staff" from Olympus, or any other manufacturer, rarely know the gear that well. The fact that they said the EM1.1 will not use PDAF is laughable... the MSC answer needs to be treated with the same hilarity.

The 12-45 is much smaller than the 12-40. It looks like the useful and desirable focus clutch, that can be found in most other pro lenses, has fallen victim to this size (and cost?) reduction.

I would not be surprised if the MSC linear voice coil motor had also fallen victim to size (and cost?) reduction. The picture below is from the 12-40 lens description on the Olympus website, and as you can see the linear motor occupies some considerable space within the lens:



There is simply no mention of this on the 12-45 page. Just as there is no mention of the focus clutch. So the conclusion that both are missing, is maybe not that far fetched.

You are right that office "staff" often do not know about those things. But in that case, my experience is that they ask at the factory and come back with sound information.

Why should a "staff" person not in the know, invent something at first sight as unrelated and intricate as the PDAF issue on the EM1.1? I believe this bit of information is just repeating what he got back from the factory.

In doubt the "factory" got involved and whether the staff member invented it, or someone else didn't understand the question or else the answer got twisted. The EM1 series all use PDAF on any lens. The EM1.1 uses a combo of PDAF and CDAF in the CAF mode. For the EM1.1 to not ever use PDAF because of a particular lens being "incompatible" is an impossibility. Even the old FT adapted lenses work properly in PDAF mode only. To make a lens CDAF only would be a step backwards 20 years. Panasonic, which does not have PDAF bodies, have all their lenses working in PDAF CAF mode on EM1 series and EM5.3.

From the Olympus website, 12-45 lens, Features page:

Compatible model: E-M1X[*] / E-M1 Mark II[*] / E-M1 Mark III / E-M5 Mark III[*]

* Need to firmware update.

No mention of the E-M1 Mark 1. Probably because there will be no firmware update to include this lens for this old camera.

So, I think the information from Olympus is credible. Unlike with CDAF, for PDAF to work the camera must be able to command the focus motor onto an absolute position. And that seems to require that the camera firmware has some information about the lens. You see, the focus movement in a lens is not linear with the distance. The camera firmware may need a distance translation table for the particular lens, or may have to download such translation page from the lens firmware, or there is another mechanism... Whatever, it looks like PDAF is not going to work without the camera firmware being updated with information of the new lens. The old FT lenses only work in PDAF, because the camera firmware has always included these.

 

[Dostoy]

The 12-45 is much smaller than the 12-40. It looks like the useful and desirable focus clutch, that can be found in most other pro lenses, has fallen victim to this size (and cost?) reduction.

I would not be surprised if the MSC linear voice coil motor had also fallen victim to size (and cost?) reduction. The picture below is from the 12-40 lens description on the Olympus website, and as you can see the linear motor occupies some considerable space within the lens:



There is simply no mention of this on the 12-45 page. Just as there is no mention of the focus clutch. So the conclusion that both are missing, is maybe not that far fetched.

You are right that office "staff" often do not know about those things. But in that case, my experience is that they ask at the factory and come back with sound information.

Why should a "staff" person not in the know, invent something at first sight as unrelated and intricate as the PDAF issue on the EM1.1? I believe this bit of information is just repeating what he got back from the factory.

Yes, that's correct. The staff member said that he assumed the lens had MSC, but just to be sure, he would check with one of the technical experts, and call phone back later. When he did call back, he said that, according to the tech expert, the 12-45mm lens did not have the MSC feature. (This was Olympus Australia head office, by the way.)

--
Dostoy, from Oz
(Oz = Australia)

 

[glassoholic]

Seeing as several people replied to the thread, I contacted Olympus today to ask about this. After checking, the Olympus staff member confirmed that the 12-45mm lens does NOT have the MSC feature.

(The Olympus staff member also mentioned that my E-M1 (original version) would only use contrast detection AF with this lens, while the latest Olympus bodies would use phase detection, for faster AF.)

Please note that I still think this is a great lens. The question of "MSC or not" is just something that caught my curiosity.

Looking back at the press release for this lens, it mentions "high-speed, precise autofocus". So it may be that, given the compact-as-possible design, a choice had to be made between silent AF and high-speed AF. And certainly, speedy AF is more important!

"Staff" from Olympus, or any other manufacturer, rarely know the gear that well. The fact that they said the EM1.1 will not use PDAF is laughable... the MSC answer needs to be treated with the same hilarity.

The 12-45 is much smaller than the 12-40. It looks like the useful and desirable focus clutch, that can be found in most other pro lenses, has fallen victim to this size (and cost?) reduction.

I would not be surprised if the MSC linear voice coil motor had also fallen victim to size (and cost?) reduction. The picture below is from the 12-40 lens description on the Olympus website, and as you can see the linear motor occupies some considerable space within the lens:



There is simply no mention of this on the 12-45 page. Just as there is no mention of the focus clutch. So the conclusion that both are missing, is maybe not that far fetched.

You are right that office "staff" often do not know about those things. But in that case, my experience is that they ask at the factory and come back with sound information.

Why should a "staff" person not in the know, invent something at first sight as unrelated and intricate as the PDAF issue on the EM1.1? I believe this bit of information is just repeating what he got back from the factory.

In doubt the "factory" got involved and whether the staff member invented it, or someone else didn't understand the question or else the answer got twisted. The EM1 series all use PDAF on any lens. The EM1.1 uses a combo of PDAF and CDAF in the CAF mode. For the EM1.1 to not ever use PDAF because of a particular lens being "incompatible" is an impossibility. Even the old FT adapted lenses work properly in PDAF mode only. To make a lens CDAF only would be a step backwards 20 years. Panasonic, which does not have PDAF bodies, have all their lenses working in PDAF CAF mode on EM1 series and EM5.3.

From the Olympus website, 12-45 lens, Features page:

Compatible model: E-M1X[*] / E-M1 Mark II[*] / E-M1 Mark III / E-M5 Mark III[*]

* Need to firmware update.

No mention of the E-M1 Mark 1. Probably because there will be no firmware update to include this lens for this old camera.

So, I think the information from Olympus is credible. Unlike with CDAF, for PDAF to work the camera must be able to command the focus motor onto an absolute position. And that seems to require that the camera firmware has some information about the lens. You see, the focus movement in a lens is not linear with the distance. The camera firmware may need a distance translation table for the particular lens, or may have to download such translation page from the lens firmware, or there is another mechanism... Whatever, it looks like PDAF is not going to work without the camera firmware being updated with information of the new lens. The old FT lenses only work in PDAF, because the camera firmware has always included these.

So what "compatibility" is required? To tell these cameras to ignore PDAF? Wow... if so, Olympus is redefining feature crippling. How long before people say "My 12-40 Pro worked well shooting my toddler running around in the park using CAF, but my new 12-45 Pro sucks".

--
Addicted To Glass
M43 equivalence: "Twice the fun with half the weight"
"You are a long time dead" -
Credit to whoever said that first and my wife for saying it to me... Make the best you can of every day!

 

[kmax47]

Adding to my previous comments: my 12-45 makes some soft sounds when focusing in stills mode, identical to the 45 1.8. Neither makes any perceptible sound in video mode. I never use video mode, so I had not tried this before.