Timecode Jam Sync for A7iii

[Doug Willis]

Has there been any developments in Sony Alpha cameras to facilitate better timecode capabilities? Whilst I am aware that Sony Cameras have a Timecode clock internally, I am not aware of anyway to Jam sync the camera Timecode clock with a master timecode clock. Most of the external timecode devices (Tentacle, etc) appear to work by writing timecode to an audio channel (not the metadata), which has the effect of making the Cameras internal Timecode clock useless. This seems a waste to me.

One solution I have seen to reset the camera/s internal timecode clocks is to use an old Sony remote (very expensive used on eBay), but this solution will only reset two cameras to be synched with each other, it does not sync with a master for other devices like an audio recorder or other branded cameras. Again not really ideal. If you do not have the old remote (which I think uses IR signal), I do not know another way to sync two cameras apart from trying to press the reset button on both cameras simultaneously. Again not ideal. I also dont think that Sony's Imaging edge Mobile app can reset timecode on even one camera, let alone multiple (Sony) cameras at the same time.

What is needed here is something akin to Timecode Systems Ultrasync Blue which purports to be able to master clock sync several devices similtaneously using bluetooth, but as I understand it at present, it only seems to work with smartphones and tablets ( a bit limited). The tentacle type solutions need a seperate (and expensive) device to be attached to each device (camera or recorder) and do not work with action cams like GoPro or insta360. I belive the Sony action cams have a timecode clock, but like the cameras cannot be bluetooth reset or synched.

It seems to me that camera manufacturers could easily (and cheaply) implement better timecode synching solutions with existing widespread technologies like bluetooth or WiFi to an industry standard without cannabalising higher end professional gear sales.

Perhaps if enough people agree with this, the industry will take note and do something.

 

[FuzzyKeys]

I can’t speak firsthand to the jam syncing capabilities of the a7iii as I have never used it for video with an audio recorder feeding master TC, but I am a film editor by trade and in Avid Mediacomposer, it’s pretty easy to read timecode off of an audio channel. I’m not sure if Premiere or Final Cut have that capability but I have seen TC via audio fed to DSLR’s more than a few times over the years in film and TV to make it easier to sync them in a complicated multi cam shoot.

 

[JayJayz]

If you haven't already tried this;

I was told that Timecode pulses were designed to operate within the bandwidth of audio recording devices, therefore 20-20k approximately.

So I have taken the timecode BNC connector of a Zoom F4 and plugged it into the mic input of an A7rII, set the recording level just below clipping, and recorded a scene on the camera.

Adobe Premiere, which I was using at the time, didn't recognise timecode striped on an audio track within the video clip, so I needed to use a payware utility to copy the timecode into the clips metadata. This may have changed in recent updates. Once done, the F4 recording synced perfectly with the camera clips on the timeline.

Also, I was able to get the Zoom F4 to sync to the camera as a master using a striped video track on a7rII. Its not the only combo I've tried with success, The only unsuccessful camera so far is a Canon XF305.

It's messy, but if you can get creative you can potentially already have everything synced to a single device if absolutely needed.

I've found that for my type of work, simply taking the time to synchronise the master clocks in all the recording devices as closely as possible, at the start of a days shooting, is less time consuming than physically syncing things together by cable or wirelessly. The clock's sync's are so close on modern gear that it only takes some tiny nudges back and forth on the timeline when editing to finish things off.

however, If you need to spend time genlock/black burst / trisync various equipment for video frame accuracy, then it's probably worth spending the time physically timecode syncing everything too

 

[Adrian Cho]

Has there been any developments in Sony Alpha cameras to facilitate better timecode capabilities?

Doug did you work out any solution for this? I need to sync two Sony cameras and an audio recorder and am trying to figure out which route to go.

 

[joema1]

Has there been any developments in Sony Alpha cameras to facilitate better timecode capabilities?

Doug did you work out any solution for this? I need to sync two Sony cameras and an audio recorder and am trying to figure out which route to go.

My documentary team uses Tentacle on all cameras and recorders where those fit. Obviously they're not an option for a GoPro or drone.

The utility of jam-sync or wireless/IR TC reset can be limited unless the cameras and recorders have low-drift clocks. IOW Tentacle and similar devices not only provide continuous linear timecode on one audio channel, but they also have precision low-drift clocks so they'll run all day without drifting. In some cases the cheap quartz oscillators in most cameras may drift several seconds over 4 hrs.

Even if Alpha cameras had a timecode terminal like the S1H, we can't afford to re-sync all the cameras every two hours.

There are a variety of scenarios. For multicam interviews the audio is typically controlled, cameras are close together, takes are long (hence lots of waveform data making it easier for algorithms to match) so audio sync works well.

For multicam capture of a wedding, concert or other event, the cameras are roving, often doing stop/start shooting and in differing audio environments. Audio sync doesn't always work well.

This sounds simplistic but just setting the time of day clocks on each camera and recorder helps a lot. At least that way the clips sort adjacent to each other in post.

I fully agree with the post that camera mfgs easily could improve the situation. Most recent cameras have built-in GPS or Bluetooth/WiFi links to smartphones. Audio recorders have WiFi or BT links to smartphones. Via those they already have access to ultra-precise timing. They'd only need drift correction feedback to the clock and jam-sync via a smartphone app.

 

[Doug Willis]

Adrian,

No, not really. I have just put it in the too hard basket at the moment. I don't have a regular need for this capability but it would have been nice on some of the previous projects. With Covid lockdowns, no one is doing much lately, especially me.

 

[Adrian Cho]

No, not really. I have just put it in the too hard basket at the moment. I don't have a regular need for this capability but it would have been nice on some of the previous projects. With Covid lockdowns, no one is doing much lately, especially me.

After a bit of research I think I'm going to go with Tentacle Sync. I'm not really seeing many other options. From what I can see UltraSync seems to be in a bit of limbo now after the acquisition by Atomos.

 

[NormC]

Tentacle Sync rocks. If you're simply recording audio externally and want to sync a single camera or if you're trying to sync multiple cameras - once you get the hang of timecode you'll never go back to not using it.

 

[Michael Stevens]

Anyone know of any significant improvement in this topic?

I've recently got an F6 recorder and figured, even though it's not ideal, I could set TC on the recorder and manually match that TC on my cameras to implement a TC workflow.

Turns our my Sony a7s III drifts significantly from the F6 which has a better clock.

Like to the tune of 10 frames, almost half a second, over 3 to 5 minutes. And, it's not even consistent. Half a second in 5 minutes SHOULD mean about 6 minutes in 24 hours but here at about 18 hours it's only off by about 1.5 seconds.

My next test is to see if my a7s III, a7 IV, and two a6600s at least drift similarly. If only need to bump my F6 audio track a hair it'll be easier than bumping 4 different video tracks to match the audio. Got them synced within a frame or two right now. I'll check back in several hours...

 

[mkfed]

You can have the Sony cameras output the timecode over HDMI. This way you can sync your cam with your F6 recorder. Problem is they need to stay connected to each other, maybe a hassle?

Using the timecode generated from the F6 for another Sony cam, only supported by the FX6 and up.

I agree with the OP, it's ridiculously hard to sync devices, I guess this is done on purpose to separate the pro from the consumer line. Although the A1 has the same price as the FX6 but the A1 cannot be synced, no idea how they really draw the line :shrugs:

 

[ef1]

I don't know of any DSLR that can jam timecode. In 2023, I think we still need reliable timecode generators like Tentacle for cameras. Tentacle is on top of it with the phone app and Mac Studio Sync software. Zoom is ahead of the game with timecode audio recorders such as the F6 and M4, as the clock reportedly has minuscule drift in 24 hours. I can attest to the accuracy of two cams, one of them a GoPro with Media Mod, with Tentacles and the F6 and M4 in a 2+ hour narrative that did not drift at all.

Although a small percentage of filmmakers could benefit from jammable timecode in DSLRs and drones with minuscule 24 hour drift, I don't think the thrust of marketability, e.g., consumer internet shooters, need timecode or know or care what it is. No film school in my area even teaches timecode. Timecode doesn't sell cameras. It's simply not relevant to most shooters who buy a new camera every six months.

 

[mkfed]

Panasonic LUMIX S1H / GH5S can be jammed with a special cable going into the flash sync socket.

Sony FX3 and FX30 can be jammed with special micro-usb adapter cable.

Probably some more can do it too, those are mirrorless though, not DSLR