Book recommendation for concert photography composition?

[TheAthenA714]

Hey everyone !

I've been shooting live shows for almost two years now and I've learned a lot about the craft. I feel like I pretty much mastered the technical elements with my camera, but I'm still learning at almost every shooting when it comes to composition.

So in order to progress further I'd love to find a book that talks in depth about all those non-technical aspect of concert photography. Something with a lot of examples and break downs of those examples, inspiration, tips etc... Ideally it would also include pictures from outside of the photo pit (audience, pictures taken from side stage etc...)

Any recommendation would be greatly appreciated !

 

[FingerPainter]

Check out the Photographer's Eye, by Michael Freeman.

 

[TheAthenA714]

Haha it's already in my amazon wishlist!

I was hoping to find something more specific to complement more general composition books since concert photography has some pretty unique challenges.

 

[MediaArchivist]

You could read about the experiences others have had in the Concert and Live Performances forum. Wait... no... that won't work because there isn't one

I did a quick search on Amazon for books, there seem to be quite a few that cover the matter you are asking about. I would take a look at the authors' web sites, IG feeds, etc and pick the one that matches (more or less) the style you like.

 

[FingerPainter]

Haha it's already in my amazon wishlist!

I was hoping to find something more specific

I'm unaware of any book dealing specifically with concert photography composition, but that doesn't mean one does't exist.

to complement more general composition books since concert photography has some pretty unique challenges.

What do you think are the unique compositional challenges of concert photography?

 

[TheAthenA714]

What do you think are the unique compositional challenges of concert photography?

Well let me show you a picture that includes pretty much everything that I don't know how to deal with:





Here's the problems I see with this kind of pictures:

• Face is obscured by the mic
• Can't see the feet because of PA equipment
• Distracting stage elements in the lower right
• Other photographer's equipement show up
• Background is kinda ugly (and it can get much much worse)

None of this completely ruins the picture, but I never know how to deal with those elements, and they show up very often. I always wonder if I should frame it tighter (like starting at knee level) to get rid of unwanted and distracting elements in the lower left and lower right, or if I should quickly go into PS to get rid of the mic stand in the back etc...

I always end up making those decisions based on what I personally like, but I would love to see how more experienced concert shooters go about it. So that's why I'm hoping to find some examples of great composition and breakdown of those examples, so I can get a feel for what works and what doesn't.

 

[Ellis Vener]

I do not think you want a technical guide to concert photography. I do think you’ll be better served by studying examples of outstanding concert photography. I have always thought successful concert photography is about making the viewer fell the excitement of witnessing a musician create music and if spectacle is part of the stagecraft conveying that “wow!” factor.

so my recommendations are collections of work by Jim Marshall and Baron Workman. Also Annie Leibovitz s early 1970s work on the Rolling Stone’s 1974 or ‘75 American tour.

of current concert photographers the ones whoSE WORK consistently impresses me are

Greg Waterman (@GregEayerman on IG) who works most notably with System of a Down and Pitbull.

Ryan Chang (@RyanC on IG) who is currently the tour photographer for the Swedish band Ghost.

 

[24Peter]

What do you think are the unique compositional challenges of concert photography?

Well let me show you a picture that includes pretty much everything that I don't know how to deal with:



Here's the problems I see with this kind of pictures:

• Face is obscured by the mic
• Can't see the feet because of PA equipment
• Distracting stage elements in the lower right
• Other photographer's equipement show up
• Background is kinda ugly (and it can get much much worse)

None of this completely ruins the picture, but I never know how to deal with those elements, and they show up very often. I always wonder if I should frame it tighter (like starting at knee level) to get rid of unwanted and distracting elements in the lower left and lower right, or if I should quickly go into PS to get rid of the mic stand in the back etc...

I always end up making those decisions based on what I personally like, but I would love to see how more experienced concert shooters go about it. So that's why I'm hoping to find some examples of great composition and breakdown of those examples, so I can get a feel for what works and what doesn't.

You seem to know a lot about it already - certainly more than me (in my defense I've only shot a few live shows.) Maybe you should write the book!

Ellis's suggestion to study the work of other concert Photographers is a good one. What you're talking about are almost in the moment instinctive adjustments. Don't know if you can learn that from a book. Studying other people's work will subconsciously program your mind to anticipate and then react properly at the precise moment.

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[TheAthenA714]

Thank you very much for the recommendation.

You're right, I'm more interested in inspiration than technical guidance. That being said, do you know if those guys have written about their method and the way they look at things? I'd love to see some contact sheets from professionals.

 

[FingerPainter]

What do you think are the unique compositional challenges of concert photography?

Well let me show you a picture that includes pretty much everything that I don't know how to deal with:



Here's the problems I see with this kind of pictures:

• Face is obscured by the mic
• Can't see the feet because of PA equipment
• Distracting stage elements in the lower right
• Other photographer's equipement show up
• Background is kinda ugly (and it can get much much worse)

None of this completely ruins the picture, but I never know how to deal with those elements, and they show up very often. I always wonder if I should frame it tighter (like starting at knee level) to get rid of unwanted and distracting elements in the lower left and lower right, or if I should quickly go into PS to get rid of the mic stand in the back etc...

I always end up making those decisions based on what I personally like, but I would love to see how more experienced concert shooters go about it. So that's why I'm hoping to find some examples of great composition and breakdown of those examples, so I can get a feel for what works and what doesn't.

Useful example.

I'm not sure that I'd call most of those issues compositional ones. However, if that's the way you want to think of it, then I'd suggest most of them are a function of choosing a poor shooting position for the subject matter. You should choose your shooting position based on available lines of sight.

For a singer who holds a mic in front of his face most of the time, you need to be shooting from somewhere other than directly in front. Don't position yourself so that the monitor speaker is between you and the likely subject.

Positioning yourself off to the side will often take care of the other photographer's intrusion. They'll be in the frame less often, and when in frame, they'll look more like an element of the composition than a distraction.

If you are going to use such short focal lengths and shooting distances, consider using a faster prime to reduce the effect of backgrounds. Alternately, consider using a longer focal length and a more distant, and raised shooting position, if such is available.

 

[TheAthenA714]

Ellis's suggestion to study the work of other concert Photographers is a good one. What you're talking about are almost in the moment instinctive adjustments. Don't know if you can learn that from a book. Studying other people's work will subconsciously program your mind to anticipate and then react properly at the precise moment.

That's pretty much what I'm thinking yeah. Studying pictures in order to get a feel for all those compositional elements.

I just think that it's a lot easier if I can look at good pictures with some explanations from someone who knows more about it than me than if I just randomly look at some instagram feed trying to understand what make the pictures work.

And it's not exclusive, I often look at concert pictures, especially from photographers who shoot the same bands as I do to see how they do things differently, and I also always try to experiment to see what I can come up with. But once in a while it helps to have a bit of guidance.

Also, my birthday's coming up, my mum is bugging me to know what she can gift me so I'm putting together a book list.

 

[Ellis Vener]

What do you think are the unique compositional challenges of concert photography?

Well let me show you a picture that includes pretty much everything that I don't know how to deal with:



Here's the problems I see with this kind of pictures:

• Face is obscured by the mic

solved by shooting from a different position and timing.

• Can't see the feet because of PA equipment

solved by shooting from a different position and timing.

• Distracting stage elements in the lower right

solved by shooting from a different position and using a different (longer probably) lens.

• Other photographer's equipement show up

Solved by paying attention to everything in the frame.

• Background is kinda ugly (and it can get much much worse)

This might be solved but shooting from a different angle.

Or maybe, a different performer

None of this completely ruins the picture, but I never know how to deal with those elements, and they show up very often.

A photo (of anything really) either works or it doesn’t. If it doesn’t then it is a reject.

I always wonder if I should frame it tighter (like starting at knee level) to get rid of unwanted and distracting elements in the lower left and lower right, or if I should quickly go into PS to get rid of the mic stand in the back etc...

Those are both strategies that might work but not in every situation. Who are you photographing for or who do you want to photograph for?

I always end up making those decisions based on what I personally like, but I would love to see how more experienced concert shooters go about it. So that's why I'm hoping to find some examples of great composition and breakdown of those examples, so I can get a feel for what works and what doesn't.

The late Jim Marshall and Ken Regan were the undisputed masters of concert photography



Ellis. See my work please visit http://www.ellisvener.com
Or on instagram @therealellisv

 

[TheAthenA714]

Yeah I guess I should have put "composition" in quotes. I'm mostly interested in everything that isn't camera settings, so that includes composition, lighting, framing, perspective etc...

And you're completely right about your advices, I already move around a lot (if possible, which isn't always the case) and switch lenses around. From the same show I got this other shot from another perspective:





Almost identical pose but now I can see a bit more of his face, and since I was further away and with a longer focal length, background is a bit more blurred and I cropped at the knees to get rid of the speaker.

But there's still that pesky background singer in the bottom right, the lighting is worse than the previous one, and at the end of the day if I'm looking at those two shots I'm not sure which one is the best.

Another thing (more related to composition) that bothers me is the rule of thirds. Maybe it's just me but I find that it very often looks wrong in concert pictures, it leaves too much head space above the subject (often revealing ugly background). In the above example if I had put more space above the subject we would start to see the lighting structure (which is already here and is ugly as f**k). I almost always prefer a tighter crop with less spacing around the subject. But maybe that's just me who doesn't know how to place my subject in my frame.

Concert photography is chaotic at best, there's pretty much always something wrong with the pictures that you can't control, so I'm looking for inspiration to get a better feel for all of this.

 

[Ellis Vener]

Thank you very much for the recommendation.

You're right, I'm more interested in inspiration than technical guidance. That being said, do you know if those guys have written about their method and the way they look at things? I'd love to see some contact sheets from professionals.

As I said Ryan Chang and Greg Waterman are on Instagram and you might ask them directly. I don’t know Ryan but Greg is an acquaintance and he’s pretty open. I know Gregand I think Ryan will tell you that having an artist’s trust is a key element. I know that Annie Leibovitz had Mick Jagger, Keith Richards, and Charlie Watts trust back when she was asked to go on tour with them.

It also helps to have a good sense of musical time. If you want to know more about that, watch the documentary “Beware of Mr. Baker” (which is free on YouTube)

Jim Marshall and Ken Regan are both dead but both have books and again, the artist’s trust of them was a key to their success. Both of them were keen students of the work of Henri Cartier-Bresson and Robert Frank.

The concert photography game today is very different than when I actively did it (roughly 1974 through 2001.) Todayy, managers and promoters tightly control access and timing slots for photographers and the worst of them try to claim copyright and full control to your work in exchange for access.



--
Ellis Vener
To see my work please visit http://www.ellisvener.com
Or on instagram @therealellisv

 

[MediaArchivist]

Another thing (more related to composition) that bothers me is the rule of thirds.

It's not a rule, it's a guideline for certain types of composition. There is nothing wrong with ignoring it or not liking it.

Concert photography is chaotic at best, there's pretty much always something wrong with the pictures that you can't control, so I'm looking for inspiration to get a better feel for all of this.

My suggestion is to try small er venues. Much smaller— like dive bars. You can move around a lot more and try more angles.









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[Ellis Vener]

“Also, my birthday's coming up, my mum is bugging me to know what she can gift me so I'm putting together a book list.”

Number 1 with a bullet on your list should be “The Decisive Moment” by Henri Cartier-Bresson. Bresson was the master of seemingly spontaneous composition combined with perfect timing,

 

[TheAthenA714]

None of this completely ruins the picture, but I never know how to deal with those elements, and they show up very often.

A photo (of anything really) either works or it doesn’t. If it doesn’t then it is a reject.

That's kind of my problem. Since you mention Jim Marshall, there's this iconic picture of Johnny Cash:

I think that technically, this picture isn't great. There's motion blur on the guitar head, the middle finger is out of focus, there's some random girl in the background, even Cash's head is blurry.

But it works! And I have a hard time figuring out why it works, why all those "flaws" don't detract from the feeling of the moment etc... Sometimes I look at some of my pictures and I like them, I think they work, but then I start focusing on one little flaw that I wish wouldn't be there.

Basically I'm not sure when a picture works or doesn't. I don't really have a good frame of reference to judge my work, I'm mostly guessing based on my personal feeling. But I feel like I need to get more experience, more feedback, better understanding

I always wonder if I should frame it tighter (like starting at knee level) to get rid of unwanted and distracting elements in the lower left and lower right, or if I should quickly go into PS to get rid of the mic stand in the back etc...

Those are both strategies that might work but not in every situation. Who are you photographing for or who do you want to photograph for?

For now I'm either shooting for myself or for whatever festival is going on, and a few times directly for the artist on stage.

Whenever I'm shooting for someone else I try to tailor what I do. For example the shot I posted above was definitely not a shot I liked personally (for all the issues I've mentioned), but it's the best shot I could get that feature the "NJP" logo, which is the festival logo. They kinda like it when we show their branding. When I take pictures for the artist themselves I always try to feature a bit more crowd, they like that.

But right now I'm more interested in my personal growth. I want to get a better critical eye when it comes to concert photo, learn all the little details that make a pictures works or not, get a feel for that specific visual language in a sense.

 

[TheAthenA714]

Another thing (more related to composition) that bothers me is the rule of thirds.

It's not a rule, it's a guideline for certain types of composition. There is nothing wrong with ignoring it or not liking it.

Sure, but the question is: am I ignoring it because I don't like it or because I don't know how to use it properly in my concert pictures? The former would be okay, the latter wouldn't.

That's why I want to learn more and see more concert photography, see examples of when it works, when it doesn't etc...

Concert photography is chaotic at best, there's pretty much always something wrong with the pictures that you can't control, so I'm looking for inspiration to get a better feel for all of this.

My suggestion is to try small er venues. Much smaller— like dive bars. You can move around a lot more and try more angles.

I do smaller venues quite often. Dive bars not so much unfortunately since there isn't a lot of concert in dive bars where I live. But I still do the occasional one, as well as more unconventional venues (private apartment concert, street shows etc...)

I experiment quite a lot, but at the end of the day I'm never really sure what works or what doesn't. Sometimes I put stuff on instagram thinking it's kinda trash and suddenly I have 5 times more like than I usually get (although that doesn't say much), sometimes I put out a picture that is my personal favorite and no one cares.

I feel like I'm constantly "guessing" what works and what doesn't, and I don't really have a good critical eye when it comes to concert photography. That's what I want to improve, get a better understanding for that visual style.

 

[TheAthenA714]

Noted, thank you very much !

 

[Ellis Vener]

It works because it conveys a very clear emotion and tells a good story, and that allows viewers to form a strong opinion about who the person in the photo is.