Crop mode on A7RIV vs ASP-C camera.

[lovehifi]

Trying to wrap my amateur hobbyist head around something and am confused. I have tried researching and get a little confused on pixel size, low light shooting and other benefits of using either an ASP-C camera such as an A6500 vs the crop mode of the A7RIV. So question is will using the crop mode of the A7RIV with 26 megapixels give me the same picture quality as a dedicated ASP-C camera such as the A6400,6500? Would I be losing or gaining anything by using either one?

 

[tn1krr]

Trying to wrap my amateur hobbyist head around something and am confused. I have tried researching and get a little confused on pixel size, low light shooting and other benefits of using either an ASP-C camera such as an A6500 vs the crop mode of the A7RIV. So question is will using the crop mode of the A7RIV with 26 megapixels give me the same picture quality as a dedicated ASP-C camera such as the A6400,6500? Would I be losing or gaining anything by using either one?

A7RIV crop mode will give you same quality as a dedicated APS-C camera with a few more megapixels in the A7RIV. What matters is sensor size used the resulting final image; whether one is cutting a smaller piece of sensor in the factory or only use a part of bigger sensor makes no difference.

I like using crop mode of my A7RIII over any A6000 series camera and will like the crop mode in the A7RIV even more, but not due to image quality difference since there is not much diff. But A7-series have much better ergos (tested A7RIV yesterday and it is further improved), much better EVF, faster card writing...

 

[dcstep]

Trying to wrap my amateur hobbyist head around something and am confused. I have tried researching and get a little confused on pixel size, low light shooting and other benefits of using either an ASP-C camera such as an A6500 vs the crop mode of the A7RIV. So question is will using the crop mode of the A7RIV with 26 megapixels give me the same picture quality as a dedicated ASP-C camera such as the A6400,6500? Would I be losing or gaining anything by using either one?

The a7RIV will benefit from the newer sensor's higher dynamic range. The EVF will be superior in the a7RIV. AF, may or may not be better. For the ultimate that Sony has to offer in the AF department, you'll have to go with an a9.

So, it comes down to intended usage. If you might also do portraits and landscapes, the a7RIV will be superior. Don't underestimate the importance of a high-resolution EVF when tracking high speed subjects, like fast birds in flight. I hardly use my otherwise excellent 6400, because the EVF's resolution seem limited vs. my a9 or a7RIII.

I think of the a7RIV as a great all around body. It's not the ultimate for sports or wildlife, BUT if you don't do a lot of that, it's wonderful for everything else. Be prepared to deal with large files.

Don't over analyze. Take a leap and correct course as you usages pushes you one way or another.

 

[SQLGuy]

Clearly there are differences with features, focusing, etc, supported by the two cameras. An A7R4 should outperform an A6000 in many areas. There may also be differences in sensor construction and image processors that have an effect.

Leaving out those details, though, the A7R4 in crop mode will be very much on par with a current APS-C camera like the A6500. Resolution will be similar. Both have IBIS. The R4 should still have advantages, though, in using a newer sensor, that is backlit, and has slightly higher resolution.

And, pedantic point, it's APS-C (Advanced Photo System format C).

 

[PWPhotography]

At this moment, A6000/6300/6500 all have old sensors and AF system. A6400 has latest AF system but old sensor. I'd say A7r IV APS-C mode should compete to them well but with the latest sensor technology and AF system.

But watch the forthcoming new APS-C announcement. Sony might bring out long rumored A7000. If it's on A9 spec with stack-sensor with no EVF blackout, rumored 32mp APS-C sensor, 20fps and very deep buffer, then it's in a different class in challenging AF-C tracking.

So depend on what you are shooting? For landscape and generic purpose, A7r IV is lots more versatile and good enough. But for sport, BIF, fast action types, then such A7000 will be in a different league. We don't know until in next few weeks.

--
https://www.flickr.com/photos/55485085@N04/albums

 

[lovehifi]

Thanks guys. Meant APS-C. Was too late to go back and edit when I realized the mistake. Also what happens when I post something before coffee. lol. Anyway I appreciate educating me. The A7RIV will be awesome. I may keep my A9 and A7R3 for now and see what pans out on the A9II. I also want to spend more time working on the skill of photography with what I have. The Mk4 sounds like an awesome camera and one day I will own one unless I wait until the Mk5.

 

[SilvanBromide]

Trying to wrap my amateur hobbyist head around something and am confused. I have tried researching and get a little confused on pixel size, low light shooting and other benefits of using either an ASP-C camera such as an A6500 vs the crop mode of the A7RIV. So question is will using the crop mode of the A7RIV with 26 megapixels give me the same picture quality as a dedicated ASP-C camera such as the A6400,6500? Would I be losing or gaining anything by using either one?

The a6500 has an anti-aliasing (low pass) filter. I assume the a6400 does as well.

Assuming that the a7Riv doesn't have an AA filter, I think we can expect its image quality will be in a whole different league from the current Sony APS-C bodies.

Presently I have the a7Riii, and it's (non-AA) ~18MP crop images have more detail than the 24.2MP images I get from my a6500. I'd expect the 26MP crop images from the a7Riv to be better still.

 

[AZheaven]

If I were switching this year vs last year from Nikon? I would have to look very hard at the RIV. Even though the RIII is a great buy right now. It clicks most if not all the boxes for anyone's needs imho. Just that ability to crop at 26.2 mp's is pretty big. And 10fps at 61mp's?!

The only negative for me would be the file size. In my case I just wouldn't go out and randomly shoot like I do with my A7iii.

 

[ccp900]

pls educate me

i think the a7r4 will be better even if we assume same technology age

reason is because the a7r4 will gather more light assuming you also use full frame glass and this fact leads to better low light performance and hence advantage.

if you shoot in good light most of the time then i think its comparable

 

[SQLGuy]

pls educate me

i think the a7r4 will be better even if we assume same technology age

reason is because the a7r4 will gather more light assuming you also use full frame glass and this fact leads to better low light performance and hence advantage.

if you shoot in good light most of the time then i think its comparable

If you're using a full frame lens regardless, then there is not "extra" light being gathered. Anything extra is either hitting an unused area of the sensor (on FF in crop mode), or the baffle around the sensor (on APS-C).

IOW, if you assume the same sensor functionality on a pixel-by-pixel basis, FF in crop mode and APS-C are exactly the same. If you're comparing full frame vs APS-C lenses, though (e.g. a full frame 35/1.8 vs an APS-C 35/1.8), the full frame lens will often do better at wide apertures, since the corners and edges will be cropped out.

 

[dcstep]

IOW, if you assume the same sensor functionality on a pixel-by-pixel basis, FF in crop mode and APS-C are exactly the same. If you're comparing full frame vs APS-C lenses, though (e.g. a full frame 35/1.8 vs an APS-C 35/1.8), the full frame lens will often do better at wide apertures, since the corners and edges will be cropped out.

Said a slightly different way, a FF on a crop sensor uses only a portion of the image circle. In general, the edges of the image circle is where the most distortion resides. Hence, using a FF lens on a crop sensor will often give superior results than a crop-sensor lens that test equally well, when the whole image circle is compared.

 

[JpGomez]

This thread made me think, lol

OT: will the EVF go crop mode too?

I would assume it will enjoy full 5.76 MP EVF even on crop mode correct?

 

[SQLGuy]

This thread made me think, lol

OT: will the EVF go crop mode too?

I would assume it will enjoy full 5.76 MP EVF even on crop mode correct?

Correct. The resolution of the EVF does not change. It shows you the full captured image, downsampled to the EVF resolution.

 

[ccp900]

pls educate me

i think the a7r4 will be better even if we assume same technology age

reason is because the a7r4 will gather more light assuming you also use full frame glass and this fact leads to better low light performance and hence advantage.

if you shoot in good light most of the time then i think its comparable

If you're using a full frame lens regardless, then there is not "extra" light being gathered. Anything extra is either hitting an unused area of the sensor (on FF in crop mode), or the baffle around the sensor (on APS-C).

IOW, if you assume the same sensor functionality on a pixel-by-pixel basis, FF in crop mode and APS-C are exactly the same. If you're comparing full frame vs APS-C lenses, though (e.g. a full frame 35/1.8 vs an APS-C 35/1.8), the full frame lens will often do better at wide apertures, since the corners and edges will be cropped out.

 

[SQLGuy]

pls educate me

i think the a7r4 will be better even if we assume same technology age

reason is because the a7r4 will gather more light assuming you also use full frame glass and this fact leads to better low light performance and hence advantage.

if you shoot in good light most of the time then i think its comparable

If you're using a full frame lens regardless, then there is not "extra" light being gathered. Anything extra is either hitting an unused area of the sensor (on FF in crop mode), or the baffle around the sensor (on APS-C).

IOW, if you assume the same sensor functionality on a pixel-by-pixel basis, FF in crop mode and APS-C are exactly the same. If you're comparing full frame vs APS-C lenses, though (e.g. a full frame 35/1.8 vs an APS-C 35/1.8), the full frame lens will often do better at wide apertures, since the corners and edges will be cropped out.

hmmmm. i think i got all confused with the equivalence.

Unless you have changed topics. This thread is about the A7R4 in crop mode vs an APS-C camera.

Certainly, in full frame mode, with an equivalent field of view full frame lens, a full frame camera will have a stop or better advantage over a contemporary-to-it APS-C camera.

 

[lovehifi]

Thanks everyone. Well ordered the A7Mk4. Really excited and hoping it doesn’t have too many bugs when released. Lol. I figure it will be like having two cameras, two different tools built in to one body. We shall see.

 

[AZheaven]

pls educate me

i think the a7r4 will be better even if we assume same technology age

reason is because the a7r4 will gather more light assuming you also use full frame glass and this fact leads to better low light performance and hence advantage.

if you shoot in good light most of the time then i think its comparable

If you're using a full frame lens regardless, then there is not "extra" light being gathered. Anything extra is either hitting an unused area of the sensor (on FF in crop mode), or the baffle around the sensor (on APS-C).

IOW, if you assume the same sensor functionality on a pixel-by-pixel basis, FF in crop mode and APS-C are exactly the same. If you're comparing full frame vs APS-C lenses, though (e.g. a full frame 35/1.8 vs an APS-C 35/1.8), the full frame lens will often do better at wide apertures, since the corners and edges will be cropped out.

hmmmm. i think i got all confused with the equivalence.

Not sure how correct this statement is, but I thought I read once or heard a video of Tony Northrup saying you have to add the crop factor to crop lenses. Meaning a f2.8 will be f5.6? Again, not sure on that.

 

[SQLGuy]

pls educate me

i think the a7r4 will be better even if we assume same technology age

reason is because the a7r4 will gather more light assuming you also use full frame glass and this fact leads to better low light performance and hence advantage.

if you shoot in good light most of the time then i think its comparable

If you're using a full frame lens regardless, then there is not "extra" light being gathered. Anything extra is either hitting an unused area of the sensor (on FF in crop mode), or the baffle around the sensor (on APS-C).

IOW, if you assume the same sensor functionality on a pixel-by-pixel basis, FF in crop mode and APS-C are exactly the same. If you're comparing full frame vs APS-C lenses, though (e.g. a full frame 35/1.8 vs an APS-C 35/1.8), the full frame lens will often do better at wide apertures, since the corners and edges will be cropped out.

hmmmm. i think i got all confused with the equivalence.

Not sure how correct this statement is, but I thought I read once or heard a video of Tony Northrup saying you have to add the crop factor to crop lenses. Meaning a f2.8 will be f5.6? Again, not sure on that.

That's accurate for DOF/bokeh, and fairly accurate for DR and noise. 2.8 to 5.6 would be a crop factor of 2, though. e.g. full frame vs. m43.

--
A7R2 with SEL2470Z and a number of adapted lenses (Canon FD, Minolta AF, Canon EF, Leica, Nikon...); A7R converted to IR.

 

[ccp900]

pls educate me

i think the a7r4 will be better even if we assume same technology age

reason is because the a7r4 will gather more light assuming you also use full frame glass and this fact leads to better low light performance and hence advantage.

if you shoot in good light most of the time then i think its comparable

If you're using a full frame lens regardless, then there is not "extra" light being gathered. Anything extra is either hitting an unused area of the sensor (on FF in crop mode), or the baffle around the sensor (on APS-C).

IOW, if you assume the same sensor functionality on a pixel-by-pixel basis, FF in crop mode and APS-C are exactly the same. If you're comparing full frame vs APS-C lenses, though (e.g. a full frame 35/1.8 vs an APS-C 35/1.8), the full frame lens will often do better at wide apertures, since the corners and edges will be cropped out.

hmmmm. i think i got all confused with the equivalence.

Unless you have changed topics. This thread is about the A7R4 in crop mode vs an APS-C camera.

Certainly, in full frame mode, with an equivalent field of view full frame lens, a full frame camera will have a stop or better advantage over a contemporary-to-it APS-C camera.

 

[JimH123]

Trying to wrap my amateur hobbyist head around something and am confused. I have tried researching and get a little confused on pixel size, low light shooting and other benefits of using either an ASP-C camera such as an A6500 vs the crop mode of the A7RIV. So question is will using the crop mode of the A7RIV with 26 megapixels give me the same picture quality as a dedicated ASP-C camera such as the A6400,6500? Would I be losing or gaining anything by using either one?

One point I didn't see brought up was IBIS on FF vs APS-C. The APS-C sensor is smaller and has much less mass. This means that the sensor can move more quickly and provide somewhat more robust stabilization. And this is one reason also that m4/3 out performs the larger Sony sensord. Many claim that Olympus and Panasonic have better IBIS. I wound how much of this is just due to moving around a smaller sensor.