Joe Edelman and M4/3

[NCV]

Never heard of this guy, but like all internet bloggers, he is striving for clicks and the result is over the top hysterical hyperbole.

YMMV

 

[Humansvillian]

Shamelessly copying this link from a post found in the M4/3 forum as it deserves a wider audience. After 40 years of Nikon, now Joe is firmly in the Olympus M4/3 camp.

I'm not trying to sell you M4/3 but just showing what one expert shooter has to say.

Disclaimer, I use Olympus E-P5 and also Casio pocket cameras, so my aim is to carry small gear.

Regards.... Guy

Disclaimer, I'm Humansvillian, and I'm an Olympus Micro Four Thirds addict.

I try and blame Guy Parsons for my addiction, but it was my choice to start down this road to obsession, and an Olympus E-PL1 was my gateway camera.

Still yet, Parsons didn't help any, with his pages on the internet about how wonderful the Pen PL-1 was, and the camera and it's kit lens are only worth a hundred dollars.

http://homepages.ihug.com.au/~parsog/olyepl1/01-epl1-menu.html

I have both the Nikon D5200 and Canon 20D cameras, with several lenses for each, but I hardly ever use them. I have a bunch of digital compact cameras, that I hardly ever use, either. I use my new Olympus OMD M5 II every day though, and I have a pair of Olympus OMD M10 cameras, and nine lenses for them, and still have that first PL-1 I got hooked on. I even have an Olympus E-MP2 in the mail, with a kit lens to replace one that would cost less than a hundred dollars to service.

Why?

I'm not a professional photographer, at all. I'm not even one of those advanced amatuer photographers. I just love to take lots of pictures of places and my friends and my family. I couldn't even spell aperture two years ago, much less know what ISO meant.

One of my passionate hobbies is owning and shooting shotguns at clay targets.

And one of my shotgun shooting buddies is a retired photojournalist who spent his career working for Missouri Life and The Missouri Ruralist. He uses a camera like a tool.

Another of my passions is attending political meetings, and there I see retired professors of journalism, and current journalists, who have the latest full frame cameras with a bag full of the best lenses for them.

And I do a lot of travelling around Missouri, and I've always loved to shoot a few pictures of the places and people I encounter.

I think I know why an Olympus Micro Four Thirds camera is such an addiction for me, and might be, for you.

When I watch some video that old sly Guy Parsons posts about a full blown professional model photographer using Olympus, I know my PL1 will take every lens he owns, and do most as well as his $2,000 Olympus OMD M1 II camera body. He could use my $400 Robert's Camera refurbished OMD M5 II body and likely never miss his camera at all.

And when I'm out with my friends shooting shotguns, my little MFT cameras on the table never make me look like I'm a professional photographer. They don't cause as much alarm when I'm among strangers in the little towns I travel to. When I'm at a political meeting, I can take candid shots of the people and the candidates that would be very difficult to take with a big full frame camera, with a big lens. And I'm the relative that doesn't use the IPhone to take pictures with at gatherings of family, and friends. They scarf up my photos with blurred backgrounds, to post on social media.

My best MFT camera cost $400 last week, as a refurbished camera, and my best kit lens for it cost $100, as a close out.

And the latest MFT camera I have in the mail to me, cost a hundred dollars for the camera body and kit lens, and it will do the same thing as the most expensive one I own, and take every MFT lens I own.

And not one piece of gear that Olympus makes for MFT cameras looks cheap, and everything is quality stuff. Any time I've grown tired of camera body I've owned for MFT, I can sell it on Ebay easily for about the same price I paid for them, but I buy my camera bodies as refurbs or used. The lenses seem to hold their value very well.

I know my cameras have theoretically less IQ than the best full frame cameras, and my APC DSLR cameras probably do have a better IQ than equivalent MFT cameras. But MFT cameras beat a compact camera or my iPhone completely for IQ.

I'm addicted to Olympus MFT cameras, not because of Guy Parsons, but because I love shooting the highest quality interchangeable lens camera system that has almost the photo quality of the finest cameras ever made, that I can still look like a tourist or proud father using, and doesn't cost very much to get into, or as much if you progress up the ladder to the professional level camera bodies and lenses.

In short, they scratch my itch for a fine camera to take around, and actually use, instead of sitting in a drawer.

But they ought to put warning labels on those MFT cameras.

They are very addictive, and one more is never enough.

 

[Pete_CSCS]

I am the forum member that originally posted Joe's video on the M4/3 forum. Since Edelman's video is from YouTube where he can view the comments, I thought it only right to let him know that I posted a link to his video here on DPR just in case he wanted to read the responses and address them if he so desired. Here is my e-mail and his response:

Hi Joe,

I just discovered your YouTube channel recently and am enjoying your videos. You offer a lot of innovative and helpful suggestions in your videos and I'm learning a lot. I'm not new to photography. I bought my first film SLR about a couple years after you did, but unlike you I'm not a pro just an enthusiast that has enjoyed the hobby over many years.

Being a micro 4/3 user (Olympus) I was intrigued by your 6 month report.

I posted links to it on DPReview and thought you might be interested in the comments both good and bad. Here they are if you care to view:

= link -

- link -

As you might expect, the first one, a micro 4/3 forum is like preaching to the choir.

The second one, where forum members mostly use other brands of equipment has more skepticism.

Sincerely,
Peter Kremer

LOL - Thank you Peter I am glad you are enjoying the videos.

I don't waste my time on websites like DPReview. People spend more time tearing each other apart than they do with their cameras in their hands. That's not photography - that's just people being jealous.

I would encourage you the same - even with my videos. Use them as r eference only. You will learn much more - much faster with a camera in your hands and taking pictures.

Best of luck!

See you on YouTube!

Regards,

Joe

I would have to say that he is right, for the most part. In the past year I've reduced my participation on the forums (here and elsewhere) quite a bit. At first this was from necessity as my available time has dwindled because of the 3 different jobs I work. But while I miss posting images which I hope to get around to doing again soon, I can't say I miss the brand bashing, flame wars, equivalency threads, the general hatred for this or that etc. Have you ever read the comments for the latest product announcement? "Well that camera is not for me! I won't be buying it!" Well thank you for letting us know that. We were all on the edge of our seats waiting for your opinion. Or, "That camera is so ugly." That backpack is a shameless copy of my brand X." "The noise at ISO 2 million with a 1000% crop is unacceptable!!" etc. etc.

As they say, if you don't like the thread, skip it... so I do. I still do visit DPR daily to keep up with the latest products, news and reviews so it's not like I'm not here at all even if my forum participation is down. And I have to add that there are many good people here that I have befriended over the years, with good advice, excellent photography so look for the good and filter out the bad.

I have only watched 4 or 5 of Joe's videos so far but what I see is someone who loves photography, has put more time than most into advancing his craft, thinks outside the box, is creative, innovative and helpful and generous to others. His video on building a studio in a small space goes into a lot of detail, is well thought out and suggest many ideas on how to save money and still get first class results.

 

[Guy Parsons]

Thanks, Pete, for taking the trouble to contact Joe. And maybe apologies to all for being the OP that caused some kerfuffle in the Open Talk community by copying the link across from M4/3 - where it only served to be self-congratulatory video anyway. Here it raised some more discussion.

Humansvillian just above makes me out to be some M4/3 evangelist but I am not. I just seemed to stick with Olympus cameras mostly when I went digital and for my own memory aid and in order to help others in the beginnings of M4/3 I made simple web pages of information that I gleaned mostly from the forum or from some of my own experiments. I indulge in forums to learn and to help where I can.

At a certain level in M4/3 development things just clicked and then photography was easy and reliable. For me the click point was the 16MP sensored Olympus E-P5 plus the 12-40/2.8 lens plus the 5 axis in-body stabilisation plus the 0 second anti-shock to get rid of shutter shock that occurred occasionally to rarely.

I'm now stuck at that level as it does all that I need, can't see myself upgrading to anything else until the current gear dies.

Most of the reported vehement dismissals of M4/3 seem to come from early adopters who never persevered or upgraded sufficiently in the line.

Sure both Olympus and Panasonic have moved on past my camera in features and abilities, but what I have works for me with no complaints or shortcomings for what I do for mostly travel shots and record shots of things that happen with house and family.

And that last paragraph sums up what everyone needs to comprehend. There is a point at which things work so no need to go past that. For some of course the working conditions are more critical so they do need to keep on moving up chasing the camera that will do what they need. The failure for some seems to be that photography for them is about chasing the latest and shiniest and not realising that what they have already is doing all that they need to do.

Regards.... Guy

 

[HRC2016]

I really do not think this video needed a wider audience.

Anyone who gets something for free and then sings its praises has no credibility, in my book.

I think the Kardashians have more credibility.

 

[Guy Parsons]

I really do not think this video needed a wider audience.

Yes it does, in the M4/3 forum it just was the same old self-congratulatory stuff, here it stirs the gear freaks to get other opinions.

Anyone who gets something for free and then sings its praises has no credibility, in my book.

Did you even watch the video?

In the first bit his disclosure is that he is not paid, he bought the stuff himself.

I think the Kardashians have more credibility.

Who the hell are they? Weren't they some evil aliens in Star Trek?
Regards.... Guy

 

[riveredger]

Anyone who gets something for free and then sings its praises has no credibility, in my book.

So if something is free it cannot be good enough to talk about?

 

[Guy Parsons]

Anyone who gets something for free and then sings its praises has no credibility, in my book.

So if something is free it cannot be good enough to talk about?

The whole point is that it was never free, Joe forked out the $$$ to buy a quite extensive and expensive M4/3 kit. He offset that by unloading his Nikon gear.

Regards..... Guy

 

[tko]

How can you watch a talking head, mouth and hands waving, showing nothing, doing nothing. Boooooring.

He could have typed it up in half the time.

Not bothering to listen, I assume its the same old boring stuff about how its smaller and good enough for the masses. Yada yada. A new twist--he likes the extra noise. Go figure.

But a photographer has to do anything to make a buck these days.

 

[Guy Parsons]

I guess this was aimed at me so I will reply, it's only polite to do so.

How can you watch a talking head, mouth and hands waving, showing nothing, doing nothing.

He was coveying information. Do you always need pre-school visual aids for everything?

Boooooring.

Maybe to you but not so to some others.

He could have typed it up in half the time.

Maybe, but would you read it even then? I detect a closed mind at work.

Not bothering to listen, I assume its the same old boring stuff about how its smaller and good enough for the masses. Yada yada. A new twist--he likes the extra noise. Go figure.

He likes the style of the noise, not necessarily the amount of noise.

But a photographer has to do anything to make a buck these days.

He seemed to be making the video to explain his decision, to answer questions and to explain how things worked for him after 6 months of use. I did not detect him asking for dollars.

I don't necessarily like his florid style of presentation, but that's just him and you need to learn to deal with all types.

no, I won't return to read your witty reply!

Hit and run, that's your style?

professional cynic and contrarian: don't take it personally

I don't.

Regards...... Guy

 

[Mike CH]

Anyone who gets something for free and then sings its praises has no credibility, in my book.

So if something is free it cannot be good enough to talk about?

Nice try - of course it can.

But that is, obviously, not the problem.

The problem is that if you receive expensive products for free, you have, effectively, been paid. The question then remains, what are you being paid for? What is the entity that effectively paid you expecting back?

We all have a very good idea where the money for the equipment comes from in such situations - the marketing department. And many people don’t really associate “out of their good heart” with marketing departments.

Transactions like that almost automatically becomes suspect, even if they were completely innocent.

That is a reason why serious reviewers often insist on paying for equipment, or using loaners.

Regards, Mike

--
Wait and see...
I hardly ever speak for anybody but myself. In the cases where I do mean to speak generally the statements are likely to be marked as such.

 

[Guy Parsons]

Anyone who gets something for free and then sings its praises has no credibility, in my book.

So if something is free it cannot be good enough to talk about?

Nice try - of course it can.

But that is, obviously, not the problem.

The problem is that if you receive expensive products for free, you have, effectively, been paid. The question then remains, what are you being paid for? What is the entity that effectively paid you expecting back?

We all have a very good idea where the money for the equipment comes from in such situations - the marketing department. And many people don’t really associate “out of their good heart” with marketing departments.

Has anybody actually watched the video? I despair at times. He states clearly that he bought the gear himself and only afterwards Olympus has asked him to talk and pays him for those talks.

Transactions like that almost automatically becomes suspect, even if they were completely innocent.

That is a reason why serious reviewers often insist on paying for equipment, or using loaners.

He is obviously a professional user and not a professional reviewer, so does not need to stay friends with any camera company.

I actually now think that it was a mistake to post the link here as the arguments seem to be about people getting freebies when that was clearly not the case. The actual content has largely been ignored or not even viewed. I wanted comment on the contents and not on the person.

Regards..... Guy

 

[Mike CH]

Anyone who gets something for free and then sings its praises has no credibility, in my book.

So if something is free it cannot be good enough to talk about?

Nice try - of course it can.

But that is, obviously, not the problem.

The problem is that if you receive expensive products for free, you have, effectively, been paid. The question then remains, what are you being paid for? What is the entity that effectively paid you expecting back?

We all have a very good idea where the money for the equipment comes from in such situations - the marketing department. And many people don’t really associate “out of their good heart” with marketing departments.

Has anybody actually watched the video? I despair at times. He states clearly that he bought the gear himself and only afterwards Olympus has asked him to talk and pays him for those talks.

Have you read the question I’m responding to? I despair at times at the inability of people to actually read the quotes in a post....

I wanted comment on the contents and not on the person.

That was what you wanted.

What it probably looked like to many people was that you wanted to promote your favourite brand as that is something you sometimes do - thereby building up expectations, and people react as much to those expectations as to the actual intent and content.

That’s not necessarily fair, but it’s such a common part of communication that’s even been enshrined in a cautionary folk tale.

Regards, Mike

 

[Glen Barrington]

How can you watch a talking head, mouth and hands waving, showing nothing, doing nothing. Boooooring.

He could have typed it up in half the time.

Not bothering to listen, I assume its the same old boring stuff about how its smaller and good enough for the masses. Yada yada. A new twist--he likes the extra noise. Go figure.

But a photographer has to do anything to make a buck these days.

 

[NCV]

I wrote a long reply to this thread, but I thought it warranted a thread of its own.

I do not understand a “Top Professional” who does not understand that every format has its own strengths and weaknesses.

Somebody at the top of their profession should understand this.

I am rather tired of these Youtube pundits who live thanks to the “views” they get, misinforming the gullible “photo enthusiast” community with this “one system or other” rubbish.

I often have the impression that these “influencers” have some connection with the marketing departments of the camera maker, who’s products they are talking about.

 

[Guy Parsons]

I wrote a long reply to this thread, but I thought it warranted a thread of its own.

I do not understand a “Top Professional” who does not understand that every format has its own strengths and weaknesses.

Watch the video before you comment.

Somebody at the top of their profession should understand this.

He states he is not trying to sell anybody anything, he is just stating his own situation, just in case it might be interesting to others. If you don't agree with his reasoning then there's no worries, just walk away.

I am rather tired of these Youtube pundits who live thanks to the “views” they get, misinforming the gullible “photo enthusiast” community with this “one system or other” rubbish.

Some tube videos make sense, some don't, you need to watch them to work out which is which.

I often have the impression that these “influencers” have some connection with the marketing departments of the camera maker, who’s products they are talking about.

As stated in the video, he bought his own gear and does admit that he now gets requests from Olympus to talk and gets paid for those talks. But the video arose because he a made a switch that suited him and he was trying to answer the general barrage of questions that surrounds a switch statement.

Regards..... Guy

 

[Mike CH]

I often have the impression that these “influencers” have some connection with the marketing departments of the camera maker, who’s products they are talking about.

I, for one, am also often left with that feeling.

And it doesn’t matter whether it’s true or not - that nagging feeling leaves doubt.

I think it’s related to the style many of those “influencers” adopt. Over the top, full of praise and enthusiasm, high speed, based in emotions - a style that reminds me very much of slick, paid commercials.

Regards, Mike

 

[Mike CH]

I wrote a long reply to this thread, but I thought it warranted a thread of its own.

I do not understand a “Top Professional” who does not understand that every format has its own strengths and weaknesses.

Watch the video before you comment.

Somebody at the top of their profession should understand this.

He states he is not trying to sell anybody anything, he is just stating his own situation, just in case it might be interesting to others. If you don't agree with his reasoning then there's no worries, just walk away.

I am rather tired of these Youtube pundits who live thanks to the “views” they get, misinforming the gullible “photo enthusiast” community with this “one system or other” rubbish.

Some tube videos make sense, some don't, you need to watch them to work out which is which.

I often have the impression that these “influencers” have some connection with the marketing departments of the camera maker, who’s products they are talking about.

As stated in the video, he bought his own gear and does admit that he now gets requests from Olympus to talk and gets paid for those talks. But the video arose because he a made a switch that suited him and he was trying to answer the general barrage of questions that surrounds a switch statement.

Regards..... Guy

Has it occurred to you that people have seen at least some of the video - and are taking something different away from it than you are? And maybe something different from what Edelmann intended?

In other words, that it at least partially failed in its purpose?

Regards, Mike

 

[tbcass]

I wrote a long reply to this thread, but I thought it warranted a thread of its own.

I do not understand a “Top Professional” who does not understand that every format has its own strengths and weaknesses.

Somebody at the top of their profession should understand this.

I'm sure he does understand this. He is only relating his experiences in reference to his needs. Did he at any time claim his observations apply to anybody but himself? No he didn't. I think you are taking this way too personally.

If the expression of personal experiences by people on the internet bother you so much don't read the blogs or watch the videos because it's inevitable you will run across some that you don't agree with.

Anything that is opinion based relates only to the person expressing the opinion. These forums are far worse because they are filled with posts by people who think their opinion is the "law". It's a sad reflection on what our society has become. Just look at the polarization in today's politics where people only want to hear things that agree with their preconceived opinions.

--
Tom
Look at the picture, not the pixels

 

[Tommi K1]

Meanwhile I watch the World Cup in soccer everyday on TV. Haven't seen anything yet but big Canons and Nikons used at the sidelines by the pros at this huge event.
Some cameras are good at being small, some cameras are better in other matters.

Do you know how many of them is offered a free cameras and lenses from Canon and Nikon?

Then when you are brainwashed from the begin to Canon and Nikon (because they were the only players in town just about 10 years ago) you are very very locked to their ecosystems, not just by a mount, but by your attitude as that is all you know and you are familiar to them. You know their service centers, you know their functions and capabilities, you keep things simple by going just with one file format etc.

They are doing their JOB, not playing reviewers or testing new gear when they are in the critical job!

And then there are people who go and say that because they see only Canon and Nikon, others can't do at least the same and even more.