"Fixing" the new Canon colors (on my M5... Or your 5DIV, 80D, etc for that matter)

[Lightgreen]

http://cinescopophilia.com/download-the-vw-158-canon-dslr-picture-styles-picture-profiles/

I've found the Nikon Picture Style, with a 0 saturation (as the Nikon PictureStyle comes with Saturation +1) seems to "cure" my color corundum thus far while playing with it in DPP4.

It shifts the colors back into a more traditional look to before the DIGIC6 and DIGIC7, except, the WB is spot on whereas DIGIC5 offerings of the past, had troubles with artificial lighting (florescent lighting anyone? I don't miss WB correcting/setting that).

Hate to say it, even though my gripes have been until now, I want my EOS M colors back on my M5, I think I like the Nikon profile better (with 0 saturation vs it ships with +1)... I'm really glad I got on this crazy cycle to "solve" this problem. It's rare I come out with more than I asked for, in this case I have.

Feel free to try the 158 styles, they're compatible with non-M's too, IE your 7DII or whatever can eat em. I haven't had time to try more than the KodaChromes, the Nikon and a few other hopefuls so if you like one a lot that I should be trying, speak up, or, if you know of other good picture styles out there, please add to the thread.

DPP4 digests them too btw, which I highly advise you use for testing prior to loading one on your camera.

FYI, I just loaded the Kodak Portrait 160NC in User1, Technicolor in User2 (video use) and Nikon in User3, but, after loading it, changed the saturation to 0 from +1. I loaded Nikon in User3 as it's faster to tap once to the left from Auto to Nikon and vice versa as opposed to User1, is next to Monochrome.

Fair warning, most of the styles have a cinema audience, that is they are flat profiles designed for post-processed gradients. There's a couple in there that are interesting though.

 

[JimH]

Thank you very much for investigating this and posting that! I will have to play with this when I get some time.

So: Are you shooting in RAW now?

I really like DPP. I put version 4 on my computer here at work, and will put it on my main PC at home when I get a chance.

I have not played at all with the picture styles on the M5 yet. But I did work up something I always liked for the old 40D. But the idea of it was to make the in-camera JPGs give me a better idea of when things were truly blowing out in RAW, because the on-camera display and the on-camera histograms were based on the in-camera JPG conversion. And depending on the picture style, you could end up getting a very warped idea of what the actual exposure really was!

I will likely do the same thing for the M5 because I just want the on-camera histograms to truly represent the actual exposures. That ends up meaning that the in-camera JPGs are bland, and the on-camera displays match that, of course. But to me, it's more important that I get a feel for the true exposure levels being recorded in the RAW files so I can "shoot to the right" accurately, etc.

It would be neat if you could switch to a "RAW-Based" histogram display mode. That's something we've been asking for for at least 10 years. It's a shame to have to use a purposely bland and lousy picture style just so you can get accurate histograms on the camera.

Now watch. The M5 and M6 already have that, and my ignorance will, once again, make me a laughing stock around here!

 

[beagle1]

http://cinescopophilia.com/download-the-vw-158-canon-dslr-picture-styles-picture-profiles/

I've found the Nikon Picture Style, with a 0 saturation (as the Nikon PictureStyle comes with Saturation +1) seems to "cure" my color corundum thus far while playing with it in DPP4.

It shifts the colors back into a more traditional look to before the DIGIC6 and DIGIC7, except, the WB is spot on whereas DIGIC5 offerings of the past, had troubles with artificial lighting (florescent lighting anyone? I don't miss WB correcting/setting that).

Hate to say it, even though my gripes have been until now, I want my EOS M colors back on my M5, I think I like the Nikon profile better (with 0 saturation vs it ships with +1)... I'm really glad I got on this crazy cycle to "solve" this problem. It's rare I come out with more than I asked for, in this case I have.

Feel free to try the 158 styles, they're compatible with non-M's too, IE your 7DII or whatever can eat em. I haven't had time to try more than the KodaChromes, the Nikon and a few other hopefuls so if you like one a lot that I should be trying, speak up, or, if you know of other good picture styles out there, please add to the thread.

DPP4 digests them too btw, which I highly advise you use for testing prior to loading one on your camera.

FYI, I just loaded the Kodak Portrait 160NC in User1, Technicolor in User2 (video use) and Nikon in User3, but, after loading it, changed the saturation to 0 from +1. I loaded Nikon in User3 as it's faster to tap once to the left from Auto to Nikon and vice versa as opposed to User1, is next to Monochrome.

Fair warning, most of the styles have a cinema audience, that is they are flat profiles designed for post-processed gradients. There's a couple in there that are interesting though.

not sure I would want a Nikon or Kodak color profile but thanks

I shoot in RAW and convert using DNG, it seems to look right

www.flickr.com/photos/mmirrorless

 

[Lightgreen]

Hrmph, intriguing use of picture styles, quite resourceful actually.

And yes, I've shot RAW+JPG since errr, 2010? Somewhere around there.

I started shooting RAW only with the M3 as I found it raised it's FPS a hair, which on that guy, a little goes a long way and I was batch processing everything in DPP4 just to get better noise, WB and colors anyways as well as using it's keeper/taker sorting features that mimic Lightroom as around the same time I started shooting RAW only, I also learned "spray and pray" which is I used continuous shooting all the time, and pick from the best frame in a burst as the keeper; great for those people blinking moments, etc etc. So I found to shoot RAW only, and have adapted a rapid almost automated process for batching them to JPEG and let my laptop do unattended processing of them, come back, import them into Photos on the Mac, distribute, etc etc.

I really only go back to the RAWs for prints afterwards as when doing large prints, RAWs retain more detail then even low compression JPEGs.

I'm using the Nikon profile, but still shooting RAW, as shot settings (the picture profile you shot with) carry over into DPP4, still, thus saving me a step. As a matter of a fact, I'll probably reduce the Nikon's default sharpness from 4 to 2, as I apply DLO, and end up reducing sharpness to 2 as part of my batch regime, thus it'll save me another step.

 

[Lightgreen]

Don't let the Nikon or Kodak stigma as a Canon shooter get in the way of what you feel is the most pleasing result. You're still shooting a Canon glass, and a Canon body afterall, and you can always flip it back if you're a RAW shooter like me.

Frankly if Sony came out with a decent menu structure, and made a Canon or Nikon Color Profile for in camera RAW tagging and JPG rendition (and some better crop-native glass), there's a good chance I would be writing in the Sony forum, not the M forum right now. I shoot the M platform because it's the best for my needs, and arguably the best for most folk that want to pack light but pack a punch. But, should someone else come up with something better, and it's not Canon, and makes sense, sure.

Side note, PP did an article on Colors late last year, and Nikon came out on top, VERY closely followed by Canon. Why not have the best of both worlds? The wonderful Canon glass, and, the Nikon Colors? In my case it's not that I want Nikon colors, it's that Nikon colors are better than the DIGIC7 Canon colors as I personally like the DIGIC5 feel of the 5DIII / SL1 / EOS M /2 (original) era which the Nikon profile more closely resembles the DIGIC5 era.

https://petapixel.com/2016/11/16/great-jpeg-shootout-brand-best-straight-camera/

 

[nnowak]

Have you tried running some old DIGIC 5 RAWs through DPP 4 with the Nikon profile? I am curious how much those older files would match the newer DIGIC 7 files when using the same profile.

 

[Lightgreen]

You read my mind; unfortunately not. It's on my hit list for this week.

The Nikon profile does give me back my oranges though, which is some of the ground the DIGIC6 (and DIGIC7, but the latter gave me some, of it back) gave up from the DIGIC5.

I'm curious myself if I like the Nikon colors better than my 5DIII colors. Maybe, we'll see.

I won't be switching to Nikon anytime soon though, rest assured. As much as I admire what they've done with the D750 and a 24-70 f/2.8 offering with IS, there's many other Canon lens offerings that are my favorites that Nikon can't match in terms of f-stop, or price, to be blunt.

Heck, if I love the Nikon profile more than my 5DIII colors, maybe I will jump on a 5DIV, and run it with the "Nikon" picture style, when I make the jump back to DSLR, assuming by that time there isn't a competitive FF mirrorless offering, as that's probably looming too.

 

[beagle1]

Don't let the Nikon or Kodak stigma as a Canon shooter get in the way of what you feel is the most pleasing result. You're still shooting a Canon glass, and a Canon body afterall, and you can always flip it back if you're a RAW shooter like me.

Frankly if Sony came out with a decent menu structure, and made a Canon or Nikon Color Profile for in camera RAW tagging and JPG rendition (and some better crop-native glass), there's a good chance I would be writing in the Sony forum, not the M forum right now. I shoot the M platform because it's the best for my needs, and arguably the best for most folk that want to pack light but pack a punch. But, should someone else come up with something better, and it's not Canon, and makes sense, sure.

Side note, PP did an article on Colors late last year, and Nikon came out on top, VERY closely followed by Canon. Why not have the best of both worlds? The wonderful Canon glass, and, the Nikon Colors? In my case it's not that I want Nikon colors, it's that Nikon colors are better than the DIGIC7 Canon colors as I personally like the DIGIC5 feel of the 5DIII / SL1 / EOS M /2 (original) era which the Nikon profile more closely resembles the DIGIC5 era.

I don't what "PP" is but Canon "colors" seem much better (closer to reality)

when I go on a photowalk with other photogs the Canons pics look better shooting at the same subjects at the same time .... but hey, it's all subjective and opinion .... right ?

www.flickr.com/photos/mmirrorless

 

[Lightgreen]

PetaPixel.

I liked my 5DIII colors better, and the EOS M colors better, and the SL1 colors better. I'm very Canon, heads up. Just anti-new Canon colors.

 

[Lightgreen]

Nikon is a bit more punchy even with a saturation of 0 vs the 5DIII.

I've found, Velvia by Giosi v1 to probably be the closest to the DIGIC5 look, but, it's a bit duller, vs the Nikon is also close to the DIGIC5 look, but is too punchy in certain conditions.

Step by Step and Olympus Blue are also very close contenders.

It's between Nikon with saturation of 0 and Velvia by Giosi v1 for my new favorite Style.

The Nikon Picture style does, in less common circumstances, produce abnormal oranges though, heads up, so shoot RAW in case correction is needed.

 

[ZedDoctor]

http://cinescopophilia.com/download-the-vw-158-canon-dslr-picture-styles-picture-profiles/

I've found the Nikon Picture Style, with a 0 saturation (as the Nikon PictureStyle comes with Saturation +1) seems to "cure" my color corundum thus far while playing with it in DPP4.

It shifts the colors back into a more traditional look to before the DIGIC6 and DIGIC7, except, the WB is spot on whereas DIGIC5 offerings of the past, had troubles with artificial lighting (florescent lighting anyone? I don't miss WB correcting/setting that).

Hate to say it, even though my gripes have been until now, I want my EOS M colors back on my M5, I think I like the Nikon profile better (with 0 saturation vs it ships with +1)... I'm really glad I got on this crazy cycle to "solve" this problem. It's rare I come out with more than I asked for, in this case I have.

Feel free to try the 158 styles, they're compatible with non-M's too, IE your 7DII or whatever can eat em. I haven't had time to try more than the KodaChromes, the Nikon and a few other hopefuls so if you like one a lot that I should be trying, speak up, or, if you know of other good picture styles out there, please add to the thread.

DPP4 digests them too btw, which I highly advise you use for testing prior to loading one on your camera.

FYI, I just loaded the Kodak Portrait 160NC in User1, Technicolor in User2 (video use) and Nikon in User3, but, after loading it, changed the saturation to 0 from +1. I loaded Nikon in User3 as it's faster to tap once to the left from Auto to Nikon and vice versa as opposed to User1, is next to Monochrome.

Fair warning, most of the styles have a cinema audience, that is they are flat profiles designed for post-processed gradients. There's a couple in there that are interesting though.

Thanks for sharing this link!

Downloaded Velvia, Technicolor, and Kodak Ektachrome. So far I'm enjoying the technicolor and Ektachrome.

If you've played with the B&W's, are any of them close to the Acros film?

 

[Andy01]

Very interesting - need to play more.

I opened a nice bright sunny outdoor (RAW) image taken with a M3 & 11-22mm at a beach, so sea, blue sky, sand, trees and grass, with a jetty and lots of people as a sample. I applied

I found the Velvia Picture Style GROSSLY over-saturated - completely unnatural, but the Velvia by Giosi 2.0 much better. Velvia 25 was over-saturated as well, but not nearly as bad as the Velvia - skintones looked quite orange (jaundice ?).

The Nikon was nearly as over-saturated as the Velvia Picture Style. Quite unnatural.

The Technicolour Cinestyle was completed washed out for colours.

The Kodachrome 25 wasn't bad - a bit less saturated than the standard style.

The Fuji Velvia 100 was similar to the Kodachrome.

The Ektachrome, Fuji FP-100C and Fuji Astia 100F were all a little more washed out than the Kodachrome 25.

The Sittori-Landscape gave a nice result - similar saturation to the Standard style, with a bit less contrast.

The Olympus Blue gave a more saturated version of the Sittori Landscape.

Of these that I have tried, I found the Sittori-Landscape the only one that may be preferable to the DPP Standard stype - on the image I tested. Other, more subdued, less colourful images may yield different results.

 

[Lightgreen]

After much testing on my ol 5DIII photos, M3 photos and M5 photos, I've found the Nikon profile with -1 saturation and -2 sharpness to default configuration produce the best results (IE the Nikon profile calls for +1 saturation and +4 sharpness, I've reduced it to neutral saturation and +2 sharpness).

I've also found the Nikon profile is very sensitive to orange blowouts if the WB is off. The M5 has better WB metering than my former 5DIII, but both you have to be careful as the way the picture style works it has set thresholds which if the colors are already too hot due to temperature issues to begin with, it will add insult to injury; keep in mind.

Step by Step and Velvia's are close, but I prefer the punch of the Nikon profile.

Just finished my first batch of new photos (processed 1640 photos) off my M5, and, I've shot both shot settings (camera's auto) and Nikon, ended up changing them all to Nikon, dropping the saturation and sharpness, and adjusting the WB on about 15 of them in batch with wonderful results. I forgot the Nikon profile called for +1 saturation when I applied it in DPP4 and wondered what was wrong and quickly remembered I had it set in camera, but the DPP4 .pf2 import always calls the profile itself and always forgets tweaks. I should probably use picture style editor to fix that.

Reviewing Nikon .pf2 in picture style editor reveals it's actually a modified landscape profile, with pushes in saturation, and individual pushes to orange, green and blue, interestingly. Makes sense as landscape uses a different curve, and pushes blues and greens, which sacrifice oranges, so pushing oranges would counter the effect. Smart.

Velvia (all of em) is a modified faithful with pushes to sharpness, red, yellow and blue. Great for portraiture.

As Canon says, colors are a very personal thing. It's not perfect, but, Nikon with changes is close enough for me. I can only encourage any readers to play around for yourself, just keep in mind many profiles are for color grading IE dull intentionally for video use, and some are for artistic effect, and some, are for taste which the latter is what I was after.

 

[Lightgreen]

Don't forget you can play with the styles yourself; I've found dropping sharpness and saturation on many of them for improved results. It's usually safe to drop sharpness and saturation on a punchy profile, and usually risky to bump sharpness or saturation on a dull profile, in my experince. Changing individual colors is really risky, but, that's what makes these profiles to begin with so keep in mind.

Beach shots will likely enjoy Olympus blue or clear, btw.

 

[Lightgreen]

Not a film person; before my generation. Last time I shot film was in the 90s.