RX1, Smart Zoom and Clear Image Zoom (jpeg only)

[elliottnewcomb]

You get 9 variations, depending on 24, 10, 5 mp image size used (screen shot of thumbnails)



Not a perfect test, but, it was raining outside, I had ebay shooting set up (blurry, forgot it was in MF)



Soooo, always curious about these in-camera extra zooms, I shot the 9 variations. No PP, this is just to show zoom options, IQ results. Exposure 0.0, differences are by camera, not me.

A mode, f5.6, OOC, No PP. tripod, 2 sec timer, AF. WB 2800. Center Area focus and exposure.

24mp image size, 35mm Optical (10-1/2 feet from the wall)



Maximum available: 5 mp image size, CIZ, 157mm



24mp, 35mm, Optical cropped to match 157mm view above.



Note: view the originals, click the magnifier to get the max size

5mp CIZ 157mm shot is upscaled, in camera, to 2640 x 1760 pixels

24mp, 35mm crop to 157mm is only 1/4 the # of pixels, 1267 x 880.

It is also quite obvious the camera chose different exposures based on each magnified view.

................................................................................

Like Schnabel, the Variations:

1. 24mp, 35mm optical



2. 24mp, CIZ 70mm



3. 10mp, 35mm optical



4. 10mp, SZ 52mm



5. 10mp CIZ 105mm



6. 5mp 35mm optical



7. 5mp, SZ1, 52mm



8. 5mp, SZ2, 70mm



9. 5mp, CIZ 157mm



Different settings and PP could be made to any/all, but that's not the point, the effortless results of in-camera processing (sensor crop and/or up-scaling) is the point, just to know the basic IQ results.

.................................................

Zoom facts, from my RX1 setup thread

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3978597

15. AEL button: Smart Telecon/Zoom. Jpeg Only. ‘effortless, occasional, good enough’ .

Heresy I know, but, I like both extra zooms (as well as Oly’s 2X, similar to CIZ). Not trying to sell it, but explain it here, all in one place. I always encourage everyone to at least try it. Or go to item 16.

a. Smart Zoom (optical sensor crop, no upscaling) (only available at medium or small image sizes.Works in steps: 24mp = 35mm optical; 10mp = 52mm; 5mp = 80mm.

b. CIZ, clear image zoom, Jpeg Only. Double Heresy, Nigel might confiscate my RX1r.

Sensor crop, combined with in-camera upscaling, better than old fashioned Digital Zoom. Works progressively, starts after Smart Zoom. Zoom using the right/left rockers.

Press AEL button (nice mag symbol next to the button to remind me). AEL button is assigned to Smart Telcon/Zoom. A zoom scale shows up on lcd, use rockers to zoom.

You see a linear scale: optical, then SZ step(s), then CIZ progressive zoom.

a. 24mp: no SZ; CIZ to 70mm

b. 10mp: SZ step to 52mm; then CIZ progressive zoom to 105mm;

c. 5mp: SZ two steps: 52mm; then 80mm; then CIZ progressive zoom to 157mm.

Note, ‘effortless’. cropping RAW shot is one extra step, then upscaling it if needed, is step two, if you have the software, and PP skills. Using in-camera Zooms: both focus and metering is taken using the zoomed area, a possible benefit, as well as you noticing an unseen detail if zoomed.

.............................

Will I use any of these? Is that Nigel knocking on my back door?

--
Elliott

 

[elliottnewcomb]

My small sensor 1/1.7" zoom camera, 12mp sensor. constant f2.8 lens

f5.6, iso 125 used here, tripod, remote shutter, center area focus and metering, WB 2700

28-300mm optical, 2X, like CIZ, to 600mm;

tele 1.7X to 510mm optical, 2X to 1,024mm

28mm optical



300mm optical





@X, like Sony's CIZ, 600mm





Add tele lens, 1.7X, 510mm optical





tele 510 + 2X = 1,024mm





Not bad



--
Elliott

 

[SoCalWill]

Digital zoom = destructively cropping before post-processing without the dynamic range of RAW. Have never used it, but then I've always used post-processing.

 

[Bill Borne]

Digital zoom = destructively cropping before post-processing without the dynamic range of RAW. Have never used it, but then I've always used post-processing.

 

[elliottnewcomb]

My small sensor 1/1.7" zoom camera, 12mp sensor. constant f2.8 lens

f5.6, iso 125 used here, tripod, remote shutter, center area focus and metering, WB 2700

28-300mm optical, 2X, like CIZ, to 600mm;

tele 1.7X to 510mm optical, 2X to 1,024mm

28mm optical



300mm optical



@X, like Sony's CIZ, 600mm



Add tele lens, 1.7X, 510mm optical



tele 510 + 2X = 1,024mm



Not bad

--
Elliott

I took the time to view these this morning, I am quire surprised:

Stylus 1, small 1/1.7" sensor, only 12 mp, beat the RX1 FF 24mp at in-camera zooms.

Stylus 1 consistent exposure for all shots, and lack of halos from too much sharpening.

I will have to test RX1r Jpeg in-camera Sharpness default and variations.

I also think, the rx100 in-camera zooms are better than the RX1 in-camera zooms.

I see some sunshine, some outdoor photos today.

--
Elliott

 

[elliottnewcomb]

Digital zoom = destructively cropping before post-processing without the dynamic range of RAW. Have never used it, but then I've always used post-processing.

 

[Bill Borne]

Digital zoom = destructively cropping before post-processing without the dynamic range of RAW. Have never used it, but then I've always used post-processing.

 

[elliottnewcomb]

I think, rx100 does a better job at this than RX1r. Are they different processors? rx100m3 is Bionz X, is RX1r prior Bionz, or Bionz X?

 

[Bill Borne]

I think, rx100 does a better job at this than RX1r. Are they different processors? rx100m3 is Bionz X, is RX1r prior Bionz, or Bionz X?

 

[Lightpath48]

A year ago I bought a very nice Nikon Coolpix A (with APS-C sensor), while owning other zoom cameras with much smaller sensors (1/1.7" and 2/3"). I hoped that by cropping with the Coolpix A I could at least equal what an optical zoom from a smaller sensor would deliver. In my outdoor tests with my usual landscape and architectural subjects the point where the Coolpix A's APS-C sensor and my Fuji 2/3" and Nikon 1/1.7" sensors brought equal image quality was an approximate 50mm focal length equivalent from the Coolpix A sensor, yielding only a 4 MP image resolution. The smaller sensor optical zoom Fuji and Nikon cameras brought noticeably better results after that. My conclusion led me to sell everything and buy a Sony RX10 that brings really good results up to 200mm equivalent, and very usable results for monitor viewing and Web posting up to the ClearImage Zoom 400mm equivalent. The bottom line for me: use a fixed focal length camera at its focal length and fill the frame with the intended subject for the best results. Telephoto shooting is probably best left to cameras designed for it. Your RX1 is a really great camera within the limitations of its fixed focal length.

 

[Bill Borne]

A year ago I bought a very nice Nikon Coolpix A (with APS-C sensor), while owning other zoom cameras with much smaller sensors (1/1.7" and 2/3"). I hoped that by cropping with the Coolpix A I could at least equal what an optical zoom from a smaller sensor would deliver. In my outdoor tests with my usual landscape and architectural subjects the point where the Coolpix A's APS-C sensor and my Fuji 2/3" and Nikon 1/1.7" sensors brought equal image quality was an approximate 50mm focal length equivalent from the Coolpix A sensor, yielding only a 4 MP image resolution. The smaller sensor optical zoom Fuji and Nikon cameras brought noticeably better results after that. My conclusion led me to sell everything and buy a Sony RX10 that brings really good results up to 200mm equivalent, and very usable results for monitor viewing and Web posting up to the ClearImage Zoom 400mm equivalent. The bottom line for me: use a fixed focal length camera at its focal length and fill the frame with the intended subject for the best results. Telephoto shooting is probably best left to cameras designed for it. Your RX1 is a really great camera within the limitations of its fixed focal length.

My sentiments exactly..... 100% Agree

 

[mreynolds767]

I don't think cropping in camera or in post can be compared with using a focal length lens. Any of these zoom modes are just another word for cropping in camera.

Be interested in your findings since you have tested it, but don't think I would use it if nothing else I would be afraid of leaving it in that setting later because I am not smart enough to check everything each time.

I do think one can live with 35mm as their sole length as long as they are ok not doing certain types of photograph. In most cases your feet can take you to the right spot and the more you use a sole length the more your eyes will adjust and start seeing things at that length in advance.

--
online gallery at:
www.MattReynoldsPhotography.com

 

[elliottnewcomb]

Daria's play, Sweet Charity, will be a separate thread, meanwhile, I made a CIZ test there

All Jpeg SF compression, S mode 160th, OOC, no PP

2X, 70mm CIZ





these are all left dark OOC so PP does not effect anything

35mm optical





2X 70mm CIZ





35mm optical cropped similar to 70mm





35mm cropped a lot





2X 70mm ciz cropped a lot





Much better than my earlier tests

--
Elliott

 

[elliottnewcomb]

35mm crop, teaser



from this








Elliott

 

[bill hansen]

I'm pretty sure I understand the point you're trying to make, and why you're trying to make it. For those almost-rare situations where your camera has limited focal length, and longer FL is mandatory, digital zoom is something to try.

My own results with digital zoom have always disappointed me. Shooting RAW and *then* cropping has almost - almost - always given me better results. I keep trying digital zooms again and again, always with the same results. Is that the definition of insanity people keep talking about?

 

[Jerry R]

I am a big fan of "Smart Zoom". Used in very often with the R1 and continue to use it with my current cameras when I need the extra reach. You could achieve the same result with cropping the image. However I like to frame the image with Smart Zoom rather than crop afterwards. Some time just a slight change in angle makes a big difference in the image which you can't see with out the in camera crop of smart Zoom or something in the background that may be distracting.

With 16meg I wind up with a 4 meg JPEG (5 meg with a 20 meg sensor) which is fine for a 12" x 10" print at 200 dpi. With a good lens the JPEG can be upscaled for larger prints.

 

[elliottnewcomb]

Well, 'effortless' is a big part of it to me. If CIZ was clearly inferior, I would not bother with it. rx100's give more reach, therefore more CIZ, and both my m1 and m3 do very well.

My 1st test, top of this thread, the RX1r CIZ looked lousy, but these look good enough to use.

I took more CIZ test shots this AM at Ben's first soccer game. That is a situation where you might not have your zoom with you, and the 70mm let's you see opportunities, (need to see where the ball is between little legs, not that easy via LCD or EVF when image is so small) shoot, use it, or, you can crop them some too, especially Jpeg SF.

I also wanted to see how RX1r AF did for soccer, and how Continuous shooting AF did.

I shot the first half with RX1r, then 2nd half with my sports monster, Oly Stylus 1, 1/1.7" constant f2.8 to 300mm optical, (jacket pocket size fixed zoom lens)

Oly has 2X to 600mm (like CIZ) (too much for a soccer field length, typically don't go past 240mm from end to end, so RX10 larger type 1 sensor, 200mm; 400mm CIZ, and newer RX10 with even more reach would be very nice, if the AF is fast/accurate enough, and, if you will use a camera that big.

...........................

RX1r filled the memory card. Extra cards left at home this am, so, I moved memory card from Oly to Sony. Sony refused to use card, I had to format it.

2nd half, moved the card from Sony back to Oly. Oly had no problem, showed me Sony pics in play, took Oly pics.

Common Sony, this kind of bs should not occur.

--
Elliott

 

[Bill Borne]

I am a big fan of "Smart Zoom". Used in very often with the R1 and continue to use it with my current cameras when I need the extra reach. You could achieve the same result with cropping the image. However I like to frame the image with Smart Zoom rather than crop afterwards. Some time just a slight change in angle makes a big difference in the image which you can't see with out the in camera crop of smart Zoom or something in the background that may be distracting.

With 16meg I wind up with a 4 meg JPEG (5 meg with a 20 meg sensor) which is fine for a 12" x 10" print at 200 dpi. With a good lens the JPEG can be upscaled for larger prints.

But most pro printing places print at 300dpi