Vivitar 285 strength...

[tameria11]

--Hi Everyone
Happy Holidays to one and all.

This is my first post here as I just received an early present, a Vivitar 285 to go with my new fuji s602z. I am having a problem,( nothing new there.) When i set my f stop and shutter in accordance to the flash settings I get a washed out ( overexposed image),If I set the flash at half the strength should i keep the same settings.I know practice makes for better pics, but i'm a tad bit short on time. I appreciate your input as this is the first flash I have used. By the way, i have it set up as a slave on a tripod at 45 degrees of white ceiling. my settings are f 6.3 and 1/160
Need direction
Thanks
Dave
http://www.pbase.com/tameria11
S602Z,Vivitar 285HV

 

[Chuck Gardner]

Standard disclaimer: I am not an expert nor do I portray one I TV.

However I have used Vivitar flashes for over 25 years (265, 283, 285HV) in various multiple flash scenarios and can offer the following insights:

The easiest way to use the Vivitar 285 is to set the dial on the back to your ISO speed, select one of the color coded auto modes, then set the camera f/stop according to the F/stop indicated for that ISO/color combo (e.g., ISO 100 - blue - f/8). When set this way the flash will turn off when its photocell detector senses sufficient light was reflected from the subject. You will need to adjust your f/stop for light or very dark subjects. Use a Sto-Fen diffuser or similar device to soften the light.

You can't use auto mode if you bouce the light off the ceiling because the sensor is pointing toward the ceiling, not the subject. Vivtar sells an extension cable for the sensor to remedy that problem, allowing the sensor to be pointed at the subject and the flash pointed elsewhere. If you bounce you'll want to use the manual settings -- as you apparently currently are -- but the distance / f-stop table doesn't apply because the amount of light hitting the subject and then refecting back to the camera to make the exposure depends on many variables: flash-to-ceiling distance, angle, color of the ceiling, distance from illluminated spot on ceiling to subject, etc. You'll just need to evaluate the results you are getting and adjust the manual power setting of the 285 to balance it with the on-camera flash. BTW- You don't say how you are triggering the 285, but the use of the term "slave" seems to indicate you using a optical trigger activated by the on-camera flash.

FWIW - Bouncing the light off the ceiling also results in rather poor lighting in many cases because its downward direction will cause shadows under the eyes. You'll get better bouce lgihting by doing one of the following instead:

1) Bounce the flash into an umbrella or a piece of white cardboard / foam core

2) Angle the flash at 45, and tape / rubberband a 8 x 10 white card to it so the flash
hits the card then reflects on the subject

3) Use a soft box or fire it through a scrim --- e.g. chesse cloth or sheer silk fabric

Chuck Gardner

--Hi Everyone
Happy Holidays to one and all.
This is my first post here as I just received an early present, a
Vivitar 285 to go with my new fuji s602z. I am having a problem,(
nothing new there.) When i set my f stop and shutter in accordance
to the flash settings I get a washed out ( overexposed image),If I
set the flash at half the strength should i keep the same
settings.I know practice makes for better pics, but i'm a tad bit
short on time. I appreciate your input as this is the first flash I
have used. By the way, i have it set up as a slave on a tripod at
45 degrees of white ceiling. my settings are f 6.3 and 1/160
Need direction
Thanks
Dave
http://www.pbase.com/tameria11
S602Z,Vivitar 285HV

--
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
http://super.nova.org/PhotoGallery
http://super.nova.org/PhotoClass
http://super.nova.org
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

 

[tameria11]

Standard disclaimer: I am not an expert nor do I portray one I TV.

However I have used Vivitar flashes for over 25 years (265, 283,
285HV) in various multiple flash scenarios and can offer the
following insights:

The easiest way to use the Vivitar 285 is to set the dial on the
back to your ISO speed, select one of the color coded auto modes,
then set the camera f/stop according to the F/stop indicated for
that ISO/color combo (e.g., ISO 100 - blue - f/8). When set this
way the flash will turn off when its photocell detector senses
sufficient light was reflected from the subject. You will need to
adjust your f/stop for light or very dark subjects. Use a Sto-Fen
diffuser or similar device to soften the light.

I have been matching the colour codes. Perhaps its not using a diffuser

You can't use auto mode if you bouce the light off the ceiling
because the sensor is pointing toward the ceiling, not the subject.
Vivitar sells an extension cable for the sensor to remedy that
problem, allowing the sensor to be pointed at the subject and the
flash pointed elsewhere. If you bounce you'll want to use the
manual settings -- as you apparently currently are -- but the
distance / f-stop table doesn't apply because the amount of light
hitting the subject and then reflecting back to the camera to make
the exposure depends on many variables: flash-to-ceiling distance,
angle, color of the ceiling, distance from illuminated spot on
ceiling to subject, etc. You'll just need to evaluate the results
you are getting and adjust the manual power setting of the 285 to
balance it with the on-camera flash. BTW- You don't say how you
are triggering the 285, but the use of the term "slave" seems to
indicate you using a optical trigger activated by the on-camera
flash.

I am using an optical trigger with the on board flash( mertz mecalux 11) and Manual mode always for this type of shots. As far as power settings go are you refering to1/2 or 1/3 settings on the wheel

But I am wondering what the best position is for the slave, behind me to the left or right, end of the room?The room has vaulted 12 foot white ceilings, and is 15 by 25. I will try your idea of attaching some type of diffuser's to the flash, I do get darkness under tha eyes.

FWIW - Bouncing the light off the ceiling also results in rather
poor lighting in many cases because its downward direction will
cause shadows under the eyes. You'll get better bouce lgihting by
doing one of the following instead:

1) Bounce the flash into an umbrella or a piece of white cardboard
/ foam core

Instead of the ceiling? I want naturall images not posed, how would i place the cardboard

2) Angle the flash at 45, and tape / rubberband a 8 x 10 white card
to it so the flash
hits the card then reflects on the subject

I will try that

3) Use a soft box or fire it through a scrim --- e.g. chesse cloth
or sheer silk fabric

Do you mean cover the end of the flash with sheer fabric.
Thank you for your time and please excuse my ignorance
Thanks
Dave

Chuck Gardner

--Hi Everyone
Happy Holidays to one and all.
This is my first post here as I just received an early present, a
Vivitar 285 to go with my new fuji s602z. I am having a problem,(
nothing new there.) When i set my f stop and shutter in accordance
to the flash settings I get a washed out ( overexposed image),If I
set the flash at half the strength should i keep the same
settings.I know practice makes for better pics, but i'm a tad bit
short on time. I appreciate your input as this is the first flash I
have used. By the way, i have it set up as a slave on a tripod at
45 degrees of white ceiling. my settings are f 6.3 and 1/160
Need direction
Thanks
Dave
http://www.pbase.com/tameria11
S602Z,Vivitar 285HV

--
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
http://super.nova.org/PhotoGallery
http://super.nova.org/PhotoClass
http://super.nova.org
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

--
Dave
http://www.pbase.com/tameria11
S602Z,Vivitar 285HV

 

[Chuck Gardner]

I have been matching the colour codes. Perhaps its not using a
diffuser

That is auto mode. It doesn't work well for bounce unless the sensor on the flash is on the camera and pointed at the subject.

I am using an optical trigger with the on board flash( mertz
mecalux 11) and Manual mode always for this type of shots. As far
as power settings go are you refering to1/2 or 1/3 settings on the
wheel

Yes. On the 285, in addition to the color codes there are 1/16, 1/4. 1/2, and M (full power). Not familiar with the mecalux 11 or its settings. You might want to consider using a pair of 285HVs instead. Having units with equal strength and similar settings makes it easier to balance the lgihting.

But I am wondering what the best position is for the slave, behind
me to the left or right, end of the room?

Position of the lights vary depending on how you want to light the subject. Slave light can go anywhere it gets enough light to trigger the flash. Suggest you visit the library and find a book on basic portrait lgihting to get some ideas and direction.

The room has vaulted 12
foot white ceilings, and is 15 by 25.

No wonder you are having problems! That room is the worst possible room for bounce flash... Bounce works best with low, flat ceilings where there are also adjecent white walls to reflect the light

I will try your idea of
attaching some type of diffuser's to the flash, I do get darkness
under tha eyes.

See http://www.lumiquest.com/frmbuy.htm#lq925d Lots of neat goodies there. Some are $30 variations of the card taped to the flash (#2 below). Some of the others you can duplicate with a $2 Rubbermaid container and some duct tape

FWIW - Bouncing the light off the ceiling also results in rather
poor lighting in many cases because its downward direction will
cause shadows under the eyes. You'll get better bouce lgihting by
doing one of the following instead:

1) Bounce the flash into an umbrella or a piece of white cardboard
/ foam core

Instead of the ceiling? I want naturall images not posed, how would
i place the cardboard

This isn't appropriate for candid shots... See #2

2) Angle the flash at 45, and tape / rubberband a 8 x 10 white card
to it so the flash
hits the card then reflects on the subject

I will try that

3) Use a soft box or fire it through a scrim --- e.g. chesse cloth
or sheer silk fabric

Do you mean cover the end of the flash with sheer fabric.

Hanging the fabric 12" or so in front of the flash. Like a softbox without the sides. Not practical for candids, and at best a makeshift solution.

Thank you for your time and please excuse my ignorance

That's OK. Some of the "experts" on this forum think I'm pretty ignorant too...

Chuck Gardner

 

[Gene L47030]

I am using an optical trigger with the on board flash...

...But I am wondering what the best position is for the slave, behind
me to the left or right, end of the room?The room has vaulted 12
foot white ceilings, and is 15 by 25. I will try your idea of
attaching some type of diffuser's to the flash, I do get darkness
under tha eyes...

--
Dave
http://www.pbase.com/tameria11
S602Z,Vivitar 285HV

I've been looking at the 602 review and from that I can't see how you are setting the power for the on-board flash. Does the 602 have a manual flash power setting? If not then I can see some trouble with getting a proper exposure. If the camera is setting the power for the flash, then it will adjust the on-board flash strength based on the light reflected from a pre-flash.

Usually the pre-flash will falsely trigger an optical slave, which will give an incorrect reading and discharge the slave rendering it not ready for the actual exposure. It sounds like in your case the slave isn't falsing, but it may be that the fill flash is getting added to the properly metered on-board flash. If you can't manually set both on-board and fill flash, then they must have minimal overlap OR you must set the on-board flash exposure value (EV) to some negative setting to compensate for the fill flash overlapping with the main flash.

For candids, I use a Vivatar 285 on a stroboframe and just forget about the on-board flash. This way I can set the aperture and shutter for the ambient background light to control how much of the background (how dark) I want compared to the subject as lit by the flash. One might also with this setup, use aperture priority and EV compensation to let the camera always expose the background as desired, but use the auto-flash of the 285 (set to the proper aperture setting) to expose the subject. This I haven't tried, but will soon.

BTW - I highly recommend the stroboframe as it allows one to flip the flash and always have an overhead flash regardless of the camera orientation. All of the wedding candids on my pbase gallery are shot using a 285 on a stroboframe.
-Gene L.
--
My pbase galleries: http://www.pbase.com/genel
My photosig galleries: http://www3.photosig.com/viewuser.php?id=13190

 

[tameria11]

I am using an optical trigger with the on board flash...

...But I am wondering what the best position is for the slave, behind
me to the left or right, end of the room?The room has vaulted 12
foot white ceilings, and is 15 by 25. I will try your idea of
attaching some type of diffuser's to the flash, I do get darkness
under tha eyes...

--
Dave
http://www.pbase.com/tameria11
S602Z,Vivitar 285HV

You can set the on board flash from minus 6 to plus 6 in strength. When i use the slave I have the onboard set at 0 or-3 this could make a difference

I've been looking at the 602 review and from that I can't see how
you are setting the power for the on-board flash. Does the 602 have
a manual flash power setting? If not then I can see some trouble
with getting a proper exposure. If the camera is setting the power
for the flash, then it will adjust the on-board flash strength
based on the light reflected from a pre-flash.
Usually the pre-flash will falsely trigger an optical slave, which
will give an incorrect reading and discharge the slave rendering it
not ready for the actual exposure. It sounds like in your case the
slave isn't falsing, but it may be that the fill flash is getting
added to the properly metered on-board flash. If you can't manually
set both on-board and fill flash, then they must have minimal
overlap OR you must set the on-board flash exposure value (EV) to
some negative setting to compensate for the fill flash overlapping
with the main flash.
For candids, I use a Vivatar 285 on a stroboframe and just forget
about the on-board flash. This way I can set the aperture and
shutter for the ambient background light to control how much of the
background (how dark) I want compared to the subject as lit by the
flash. One might also with this setup, use aperture priority and EV
compensation to let the camera always expose the background as
desired, but use the auto-flash of the 285 (set to the proper
aperture setting) to expose the subject. This I haven't tried, but
will soon.
BTW - I highly recommend the stroboframe as it allows one to flip
the flash and always have an overhead flash regardless of the
camera orientation. All of the wedding candids on my pbase gallery
are shot using a 285 on a stroboframe.
-Gene L.
--
My pbase galleries: http://www.pbase.com/genel
My photosig galleries: http://www3.photosig.com/viewuser.php?id=13190

--
Dave
http://www.pbase.com/tameria11
S602Z,Vivitar 285HV

 

[Walker50062]

Gene,

Last summer I shot my sister in law's wedding (I'm a hack/rank amateur) with the 285 and a stroboframe. The clothes were similar to the ones in your pbase site, dark suit for the groom, white for the bride. If the groom, skin, and the surroundings were exposed correctly, the white dress was overexposed to the point where I couldn't recover the details in PS

How do you get around this? Polarizer?

Thanks,

Walker

--
Walker
http://www.pbase.com/walker
Hogdriver

 

[Chuck Gardner]

The sensor in the 285HV, or any exposure metering device for that matter, doesn't know whether the scene the light is being reflected from is dark or light so the exposure is based on the assumption that the average reflectance of the total scene is 16 or 18% reflectance, or middle gray.

So when you see your subject and background is on average lighter than middle gray you need to close down the lens a stop or more to avoid over exposure. If your subject and background is darker on average than middle gray you need to open the lens a stop or more. As you found out it is better to err in the direction of under exposure. That can be fixed in Photoshop, but blown out highlights can't.

Camera / flash systems which use the camera's matrix or multi-zone metering to control the flash duration do a much better job of exposure when scenes are lighter or darker than average because they can detect specific part of the image is the brightest, the ratio of light to dark area, focus distance, etc. and use this info to set the exposure.

Gene,

Last summer I shot my sister in law's wedding (I'm a hack/rank
amateur) with the 285 and a stroboframe. The clothes were similar
to the ones in your pbase site, dark suit for the groom, white for
the bride. If the groom, skin, and the surroundings were exposed
correctly, the white dress was overexposed to the point where I
couldn't recover the details in PS

How do you get around this? Polarizer?

Thanks,

Walker

--
Walker
http://www.pbase.com/walker
Hogdriver

--
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
http://super.nova.org/PhotoGallery
http://super.nova.org/PhotoClass
http://super.nova.org
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

 

[Gene L47030]

Gene,

Last summer I shot my sister in law's wedding (I'm a hack/rank
amateur) with the 285 and a stroboframe. The clothes were similar
to the ones in your pbase site, dark suit for the groom, white for
the bride. If the groom, skin, and the surroundings were exposed
correctly, the white dress was overexposed to the point where I
couldn't recover the details in PS

How do you get around this? Polarizer?

Thanks,

Walker

--
Walker
http://www.pbase.com/walker
Hogdriver

Walker,
Sorry for the late reply, I've just come back from a vacation.

I too am rank amateur and I did have a problem with blown highlights in many shots. Digital has less dynamic range than film and thus is difficult to work with in this situation. For all of the informal shots I used a single 285 on a stroboframe and set the apertaure/shutter for the desired background exposure. The 285 was set to autometer and it did a good job, but not perfect. There were a number of photos that were either tossed or reworked due to unacceptable blowouts. During post processing the clone tool can work wonders to recover minor blowouts. For example, in the "Groom gets an Accouterment" his forhead has had skin grafts using the clone tool to patch a blowout .

The formals were supposed to be shot with medium format print film (Fuji Reala), using natural light with fill-in from a flash in an umbrella (and a flash behind the bride to add pop to the veil). The Olympus 2100 was used for setting exposure values. It turned out that the groom was too anxious about getting to the reception, so only one shot was done using this time consuming method. The rest were done with natural light only using the 2100. In post processing I dodged to bring out detail in dark areas and burned where needed to reduce distractions from light patches. Overall it worked okay, but I will never again do formals after the. Either 3 hours before or forget it!
-Gene L.
--
My pbase galleries: http://www.pbase.com/genel
My photosig galleries: http://www3.photosig.com/viewuser.php?id=13190

 

[fotogsquare]

I have been using vivitar/Armatar combinations for the last twenty years and have grown to respect them very much. It was because of this fondness that I decided to buy a vivitar 285hv at the same time as my fuji s602z. I couldn't be happier with the combination. When shooting indoors, I set the camera on manual, iso 400, flash automatic color red . For distance I set the camera f/6.3. Intermediate distance gets f/8. Close distances get f/9.5 and anything closer than 7 feet gets f/11. Yes,light colors will influence the sensor. the same thing will happen to TTL exposures.

I'm quite fond of bouncing the flash using a fill card and am get very good consistent results of f/6.3-f/8. All this is easy to adjust once I see the first exposure.

When shooting outdoors, I set the camera to aperture priority, then set up a comfortable combination of iso and automatic power on the flash.Neither the vivitar 285hv nor the fuji s602z is compatable with TTL.
Practice. Record your results. Have fun.

 

[Drew Loker]

worked okay, but I will never again do formals after the. Either 3
hours before or forget it!

I know what you mean. I try to do the formals of the bridal and party, and then the groom and party before hand, and then only have to do the combo shots with both bride and groom afterwards. This has been moderately successful. Actually, I used to do the Groom first thinking that he could be ready the quickest. I would start with him at 1:00 for a 2:00 wedding, moving to him and combo shots, trying to finsih the guys and get the girls going by 1:15 to finish by 1:30. But, I just recently changed my plan (have not yet tried this yet...only worked out the details with an upcoming wedding) to shoot the GIRLS first, at 1:00, because I can shoot the guys a tad later, to 1:35. Previously, the girls wouldn't get ready in time, and it would get too late to have the bride out for early arriving guests.

My last wedding, we started the formals 2 hours ahead of time, and still didn't finish all of the shots. So, I can relate to the 3 hours that you are saying. In this last wedding, the couple SPECIFCALLY wanted to start 2 hours ahead of time, willing to see each other before the wedding, to make sure that their guests wouldn't have to wait, as they were going to be greating the guests as they came into the reception area.

My question is, how do you deal with the need to start so early witht he photgraphy if the couple does NOT want to see each other. Also, how do you deal wiht the time constraints of offering a basic package of 4 hours, providing for 1 hour before the wedding, and 3 after?

Thanks for any feedback.

Drew
http://www.pbase.com/lokerd
http://primerica.itgo.com/