what are the best wild-life crop sensor cameras besides the 7d2?

[OMFGITSNIKO]

I want to dabble into wild life, but I don't need to go all-the-way with the 7d2. What's the "second best" crop sensor alternative? I'd be using the 400/5.6 and 1.4TC2.

Basically a debate between 7d1 and 70d I might imagine. Again, wildlife only.

 

[ritholtznue]

I want to dabble into wild life, but I don't need to go all-the-way with the 7d2. What's the "second best" crop sensor alternative? I'd be using the 400/5.6 and 1.4TC2.

Basically a debate between 7d1 and 70d I might imagine. Again, wildlife only.

I think 7d1 and 70d are available for similar price as well. Another option is latest Nikon d7200 with much improved buffer compared to d7100. But not sure about fps. Still there is confusion about if it is a 6FPS 14bit or 5 fps 14bit in Nikon threads.

70D will be much cheaper than d7200 with better buffer and 7FPS. But not sure if it is 14bit or 12bit. I never seen any bit information mentioned with Canon FPS numbers. Not sure why and how important it is.

 

[pawn]

W/ 70D and 400mm f/5.6 + 1.4x teleconverter, autofocus does not work. For this to work, you have to get at least 7D Mark II.

 

[R2D2]

I want to dabble into wild life, but I don't need to go all-the-way with the 7d2. What's the "second best" crop sensor alternative? I'd be using the 400/5.6 and 1.4TC2.

Basically a debate between 7d1 and 70d I might imagine. Again, wildlife only.

I'd go with the 70D for it's improved IQ.

Neither body officially autofocuses at f/8, although the 70D will AF pretty well with the 400/5.6 and Tamron non-reporting 1.4x TC in good light...



[IMG width="400px" alt="click on "original size" "]http://www.pbase.com/jekyll_and_hyde/image/159314932/original.jpg[/IMG]
click on "original size"

BIF samples here...

http://www.pbase.com/jekyll_and_hyde/with_teleconverter

Good luck,

R2

--
Good judgment comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgment.

Galleries by Jekyll & Hyde

www.pbase.com

 

[Ed Wilts]

Another option is latest Nikon d7200 with much improved buffer compared to d7100.

Since the OP already has the glass, switching to Nikon is going to be a bit harder than staying with Canon.

 

[walkaround]

Neither body officially autofocuses at f/8...

What do you mean?

 

[aomcm]

I originally upgraded from the 60D to the 70D. I think the improvements in the 70D are underrated and experienced a great increase in focusing speed, accuracy and in tracking ability. I really liked the 70D and thought it was a great camera, especially the focusing system. Of course, I recently sold it and bought a 7Dii and the improvements in that camera are astonishing in those areas over the 70D. Nevertheless, I still think the 70D is pretty close to a 7Dii junior and highly recommend it if the 7Dii is out of your reach. It just operates a little slower. I was especially impressed with the focusing accuracy and it greatly increased my keeper rate for wildlife photos over the 60D. I also find tracking birds in flight very easy with the 70D.

As pointed out above, however, the 70D only reliably autofocuses with lenses that are f/5.6 or faster. Adding a 1.4X to your 400mm makes it an f/8.0 lens. Autofocus can still work but it becomes unreliable and slower. I also think you will have to tape some pins on your TC so the camera does not recognize it (search Google for instructions) or it will simply turn off autofocus when the TC is attached. One of the big upgrades in the 7Dii is that it autofocuses with an f/8.0 lens and is the only Canon crop sensor camera to do so. If you really are going to use the 400 + TC full time, you need to save up for that camera unless you plan to manual focus all the time.

Mike

 

[bugbait]

R2, exactly which model of Tamron 1.4x TC are you referring to, perhaps this? My application would be 70D, 1.4 TC, 300mm f/4 IS. Thank you.

 

[R2D2]

Neither body officially autofocuses at f/8...

What do you mean?

Neither the 7Dc nor the 70D are specced to autofocus with lenses whose max aperture is smaller than f/5.6. In fact Canon completely disables AF with combinations that exceed this spec (for instance using the 400 f/5.6L on a 70D with Canon's 1.4x teleconverter).

There are of course some workarounds, such as with certain third party f/6.3 lenses etc.

And there have been many people who have taken "reporting" teleconverters and "taped" the appropriate pins to disable reporting of the TC to the camera, and have thus forced the camera to (try to) autofocus.

Others have used non-reporting TCs to get around this f/5.6 limitation. This has worked (or failed) to varying degrees, depending on the particular combination of body, lens, and TC.

For instance the aforementioned 400 f/5.6L with the Tamron non-reporting 1.4x TC would AF OK on my 30D (in direct sunlight). Not great, but would do in a pinch. Best AF was achieved using one of the outer (non-center) AF points. Good light and high-contrast AF targets were a must.

This combo was a complete non-starter however on both my 50D and 650D.

But I've found that this combo works quite well on the 70D. In fact BIFs in good light are very doable (even against tricky backgrounds like water or trees)...



[IMG width="400px" alt="Click on "original size" "]http://www.pbase.com/jekyll_and_hyde/image/154572544/original.jpg[/IMG]
Click on "original size"

Ditto...

The 7D2 can do this natively though. Which is a big plus of course. Canon's TC has a bit better IQ than the Tamron.

Hope this helps,

R2

--
Good judgment comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgment.

Galleries by Jekyll & Hyde

www.pbase.com

 

[walkaround]

Neither body officially autofocuses at f/8...

What do you mean?

Neither the 7Dc nor the 70D are specced to autofocus with lenses whose max aperture is smaller than f/5.6. In fact Canon completely disables AF with combinations that exceed this spec (for instance using the 400 f/5.6L on a 70D with Canon's 1.4x teleconverter).

There are of course some workarounds, such as with certain third party f/6.3 lenses etc.

And there have been many people who have taken "reporting" teleconverters and "taped" the appropriate pins to disable reporting of the TC to the camera, and have thus forced the camera to (try to) autofocus.

Others have used non-reporting TCs to get around this f/5.6 limitation. This has worked (or failed) to varying degrees, depending on the particular combination of body, lens, and TC.

For instance the aforementioned 400 f/5.6L with the Tamron non-reporting 1.4x TC would AF OK on my 30D (in direct sunlight). Not great, but would do in a pinch. Best AF was achieved using one of the outer (non-center) AF points. Good light and high-contrast AF targets were a must.

This combo was a complete non-starter however on both my 50D and 650D.

But I've found that this combo works quite well on the 70D. In fact BIFs in good light are very doable (even against tricky backgrounds like water or trees)...

The 7D2 can do this natively though. Which is a big plus of course. Canon's TC has a bit better IQ than the Tamron.

Hope this helps,

Yes, thanks for the explanation.

 

[R2D2]

R2, exactly which model of Tamron 1.4x TC are you referring to, perhaps this? My application would be 70D, 1.4 TC, 300mm f/4 IS. Thank you.

Hi Bugbait,

Autofocus performance can vary with just the smallest of changes to a TC's parameters. For example only certain Kenko revisions would work with certain combinations of lens and body (and we used to tell them apart by the color of the dots on the TC! ).

Tamron has also made several different TCs (and revisions) over the years too. The picture of the TC in the link you provided at Amazon is not the same as my TC.

However the picture of the Tamron TC on B&H's website is the same as mine...

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/53109-REG/Tamron_AF14C700_1_4x_Teleconverter_for_Canon.html

But the model number is different than mine (MFR # AF14C-700). Interestingly enough this is the same model number as in the Amazon link, just with a different (likely updated) picture. Maybe B&H just didn't update their image. Happens.

What's written on mine is...

TAMRON-F AF TELE-CONVERTER 1.4X C-AF1 MC4 JAPAN

I bought mine about 8 or 10 years ago.

I haven't used it with my 300 f/4L IS on the 70D yet though, funny thing. I'm so used to automatically grabbing the 400 for birds. Or using the 300 bare when I need the extra stop or the close focusing.

I would think that this combo should do quite well for you though. AF with the TC does slow somewhat, and IQ takes a hit of course. The Canon TC would give you a little better IQ I would think (less LOCA).

One thing I've noticed is that the 300 works much better on my 70D than it did on any of the other bodies I've shot with it. It was so bad on my 30D that I almost sold it. It wasn't that it needed MFA, but rather that its AF was so indecisive.

OTOH last weekend shooting my niece's play in very low light the 300 was just killer. AF was 100% spot on, literally. I can hardly wait to get out and shoot some more baseball with it. Come on spring!

Anyways, I hope this info helps. Good luck to you,

R2

--
Good judgment comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgment.
http://www.pbase.com/jekyll_and_hyde/galleries

 

[bugbait]

R2, exactly which model of Tamron 1.4x TC are you referring to, perhaps this? My application would be 70D, 1.4 TC, 300mm f/4 IS. Thank you.

Hi Bugbait,

Autofocus performance can vary with just the smallest of changes to a TC's parameters. For example only certain Kenko revisions would work with certain combinations of lens and body (and we used to tell them apart by the color of the dots on the TC! ).

Tamron has also made several different TCs (and revisions) over the years too. The picture of the TC in the link you provided at Amazon is not the same as my TC.

However the picture of the Tamron TC on B&H's website is the same as mine...

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/53109-REG/Tamron_AF14C700_1_4x_Teleconverter_for_Canon.html

But the model number is different than mine (MFR # AF14C-700). Interestingly enough this is the same model number as in the Amazon link, just with a different (likely updated) picture. Maybe B&H just didn't update their image. Happens.

What's written on mine is...

TAMRON-F AF TELE-CONVERTER 1.4X C-AF1 MC4 JAPAN

I bought mine about 8 or 10 years ago.

I haven't used it with my 300 f/4L IS on the 70D yet though, funny thing. I'm so used to automatically grabbing the 400 for birds. Or using the 300 bare when I need the extra stop or the close focusing.

I would think that this combo should do quite well for you though. AF with the TC does slow somewhat, and IQ takes a hit of course. The Canon TC would give you a little better IQ I would think (less LOCA).

One thing I've noticed is that the 300 works much better on my 70D than it did on any of the other bodies I've shot with it. It was so bad on my 30D that I almost sold it. It wasn't that it needed MFA, but rather that its AF was so indecisive.

OTOH last weekend shooting my niece's play in very low light the 300 was just killer. AF was 100% spot on, literally. I can hardly wait to get out and shoot some more baseball with it. Come on spring!

Anyways, I hope this info helps. Good luck to you,

R2

--
Good judgment comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgment.
http://www.pbase.com/jekyll_and_hyde/galleries

Thanks a heap R2. Maybe this spring you will find reason to give the 300L and the Tamy 1.4x a try. It will be late summer at the earliest before I buy one. I copied your reply and the B&H image to my equipment notes directory for reference. This is just a guess but maybe the 300 f/4L IS will take less of a hit from the TC than the 400 5.6L with twice the light getting through. It just occurred to me that since I doubt I will be buying the 400L the Canon TC might be the better investment for the 300L, either way either of those being bought used seems wise.

If I spot it on Fred Miranda or here at good price I may snag it in June or July. I will need some TC solution.

I just bought the last of my purchases until the 70D in May, (fingers crossed) a Benro Versitile Legs A2970F $154 from B&H. Its rated at 24 pounds so I am hoping it will be strong enough for a Wimberly, 70D, 300L, TC, Flash bracket and 580EX II. A gimbal will be purchased before the TC unless I make a gimbal.

I seem to be doing everything backwards from everyone else. Buying good glass, flash, batteries, bag, etc before a good body.

NIKO,

I have not owned either but after studying images, obsessively reading about them etc, this is what little I can offer;

Iif you do not have very good post processing skills such as Photoshop or Lightroom etc, the 70D would likely be the better choice.

If you you are more concerned with getting as many versions of the nearly the same moment as possible the 8 FPS of the 7D will get you at most 15% more at 8 frames per second vs the the 70D's 7 fps. But the buffer depth should be better with the 7D as well and the joystick on the back is faster when acquiring your subject.

But it end most folks don't need that many frames per second and just use the central focus point anyhow. Either way you will get a fine picture making machine.

If you are a heavy user of a cell phone touch interfaces= or are getting older the touch sensitive flip out screen will be a smoother transition and easier than bending over every time you want to get eye level with the pets or children or flowers. Good luck with your decision.

 

[Stig Nygaard]

70D will be much cheaper than d7200 with better buffer and 7FPS. But not sure if it is 14bit or 12bit. I never seen any bit information mentioned with Canon FPS numbers. Not sure why and how important it is.

Canon went from 12 to 14 bit RAW long time ago. Canon SLRs are always shooting in 14 bit RAW (Unlike some Nikon models stepping down to 12 bit for their highest fps rates).

Canons last 12 bit models was:

1d Mark II (2005)
30D (2006)
400D (2006)

 

[Blue II]

R2, exactly which model of Tamron 1.4x TC are you referring to, perhaps this? My application would be 70D, 1.4 TC, 300mm f/4 IS. Thank you.

A 1.4x TC with this lens will AF with any body as that will make a max aperture of 5.6, so no need to avoid the Canon TC with this lens and 70D. However, if you wanted a 2x TC then it would be an f/8 lens and the 70D would not AF where the 7D2 would.
--
Steve

 

[bugbait]

R2, exactly which model of Tamron 1.4x TC are you referring to, perhaps this? My application would be 70D, 1.4 TC, 300mm f/4 IS. Thank you.

A 1.4x TC with this lens will AF with any body as that will make a max aperture of 5.6, so no need to avoid the Canon TC with this lens and 70D. However, if you wanted a 2x TC then it would be an f/8 lens and the 70D would not AF where the 7D2 would.
--
Steve

Right on. Thanks Steve. After I get my body I will ad the Canon 1.4x TC III to the next rental, $25 for four days at Lens Rentals.

 

[Sandy05]

If you are set on using the 400 f/5.6 with the 1.4TCII, I would suggest it would really will be worth saving up for the 7d2.
I purchased the 7d2 for my wife as a gift for wildlife photography and she uses that combination... Canon 400 f/5.6 with 1.4TCII. The results have been great! (particularly when tripod mounted). She has really enjoyed the ability of the 7d2 to shoot clean images at higher ISOs along with the ability to autofocus with the 1.4X. That combination has rarely left the camera since she started using it in November.

For the general photography I enjoy the 7D and 50D that we also have are still plenty good enough for my needs.

 

[neil holmes]

I want to dabble into wild life, but I don't need to go all-the-way with the 7d2. What's the "second best" crop sensor alternative? I'd be using the 400/5.6 and 1.4TC2.

Basically a debate between 7d1 and 70d I might imagine. Again, wildlife only.

I think you might be able to find a 7d at a cheap enough price to allow more spent on lenses against a 70d now.

I recently got a 7d (used in great condition) for a fraction above about half of what a new 70D would cost me.

If the prices for you are similar between the two, then maybe the newer camera might be a bit better......if you can find a great deal on a 7D, then it would be a lot harder a choice fro me.

I hope to take it out for a days shooting animals/birds shortly.

Not going to be a camera I use that often but seems pleasant enough.

--
Not to be confused with the poster now using the name.... "Neil Holms" who has previously used many names including March of the Tripods, Kangaroo Court, Ontario Gone and Jack Hass amongst many others.

 

[Flying Fish]

One feature the 7D and the 7D2 have that no other Canon crop camera has is spot AF. This reduces the size of the AF point so you can focus more precisely. It also slows the AF down a bit because there is less for the AF to grab onto. Nonetheless, I have become totally addicted to spot AF. It has enabled me to focus on hummingbirds or other small birds in busy backgrounds (and sometimes foregrounds) when normal single-AF point AF just wouldn't do the job. It also allows me to focus on a larger bird's eye or some other precisely identified point. Maybe I'm kidding myself, or am being kidded by Canon, but I wouldn't buy a camera for birding that didn't have spot AF. That makes a dilemma for you, because the 70D is better in some other ways than the original 7D.

(In addition, the 7D and the 7D2 allow you to use a single AF point with expansion, the 7D with 4 surrounding AF points and the 7D2 with either 4 or 8 surrounding AF points. This is another nice AF feature that I don't think the 70D has.)

FF