OMD EM1 Anti Shock 0 Seconds with HDR & Auto Bracketing

[sdgreen]

Re the OMD EM1 Firmware update 1.3 enabling Anti Shock set to 0 seconds

I've read all the posts I could find on this subject but I'm STILL not clear.

When Anti-Shock is set to 0 Sec (the updated option) I know that sequential shooting (LOW or HIGH) is disabled. This is stated in the updated manual on P97.

What I need to know is: Does the 0 Sec Anti Shock work with Auto Bracketing & HDR modes? I'm talking about the mode where the shutter is HELD down & the camera takes a series of shots without individually pressing the shutter for each frame.

I don't have this camera & was on the verge of investing into the system when I discovered this shutter shock flaw. This is a decider for me as I frequently take 2 or 3 frames handheld for exposure combining. The affected shutter speed range seems to be the ones I most commonly use.

Incidentally, I'm not sure whether this 0 Sec option is a genuine electronic curtain (I don't see how as I would have thought that's a physical design matter) or if it's some sort of very short delay.

Can anyone enlighten me on this? - preferably someone who uses the camera in this way.

NB I have experience of two systems. Both implement Auto Bracketing differently. With Pentax a series of sequential shots are taken by default without needing to enable burst mode. With Nikon continuous shooting must be enabled to avoid having to press the shutter each time.

Thanks

 

[photohounds]

I use my em1 and shoot mostly multiple frames, I now do quite a bit of HDR and haven't notice any SS. The part of this that gets me is you want to shoot handheld...as has been mentioned that in and of itself will induce motion blur unless you are the absolute best at remaining tripod still.

I shoot mainly with a tripod 99% of the time I might add and I don't pixel peep, just not my thing but I do seem to get some very fine images. Other variables come into play for me like the elements and the such...

Buy from a shop where you have a return period and give it a whirl, if it's not for you then so be it.

Cheers

 

[assaft]

Zero second one eighth second and so on shutter shock speeds? I have the M10 with the 60MM macro lens and only shoot on a tripod. Thanks.

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Brad
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I think 0 sec can't be used with 1/8 sec delay,

Right, it can't.

but I never tried. What about using smartphone for triggering shoots, there would be no need for 1/8 sec delay? When camera is on tripod it sems to me as best macro setup

Some indications from the past suggested that tripods don't guarantee shock-free shots. Probably it depends on the particular camera copy, the quality of the tripod, the focal length and maybe more parameters. For example, consider DPReview's studio scene shots of the E-M1. In the daylight setting, the shot taken at ISO 200 (shutter speeds of 1/80) is much blurrier than the one taken at ISO 800 (shutter speeds of 1/320):


A screen shot of the comparison tool; look at the tool for an accurate examination.

Increasing the ISO from 200 to 800 adds noise, so one may argue that the result above is due to more noise in the ISO 800 shot, which renders its fine detail clearer. Two ways to address this: 1 - notice that the ISO 200 shot is not only less sharp but also pretty blurry - something that cannot be cured by adding more noise as added in ISO 800; 2 - compare to the results at the low light setting (shutter speeds of 1.6s and 0.4s for ISO 200 and 800 respectively):



Both comparisons above show ISO 200 vs 800 but only when we move from the center of the shutter shock territory (roughly 1/100) to its edge (roughly 1/320) we get rid of the blur. This is exactly what you would expect from a shutter speed point of view - the shock predominates at ~1/100 and has a lesser effect the further you go from there. The speed of 1/320 is pretty much the edge of the shutter shock territory so it's no surprise that the image taken at this speed is less blurry. It's unclear, however, why dpreview's tripod wasn't good enough to avoid that. Note that dpreview's stuff reported that they use a combination of at least 2 sec timer + 2 sec anti shock when they test Olympus cameras (I don't remember the exact lengths). They haven't used the 0 sec so far because it wasn't available in the original firmware, and I haven't seen any report about whether the short release mode was used. I guess not because it is not documented as a valuable feature for the purpose of the comparison tool.

Anyway, 0 sec is supposed to cure this, and according to the vast majority of reports it does. It's your best friend whether you are shooting hand-held or from a tripod, unless you have to use burst mode. Yes, you can switch to 1/8 and Short release when in burst mode. I didn't try these settings by myself. I'm using 0 sec + short all the time and switch to a custom drive mode of 3/5 shots to have a 'burst-like' mode.

 

[Bill Wallace]

I use my em1 and shoot mostly multiple frames, I now do quite a bit of HDR and haven't notice any SS. The part of this that gets me is you want to shoot handheld...as has been mentioned that in and of itself will induce motion blur unless you are the absolute best at remaining tripod still.

I shoot mainly with a tripod 99% of the time I might add and I don't pixel peep, just not my thing but I do seem to get some very fine images. Other variables come into play for me like the elements and the such...

Buy from a shop where you have a return period and give it a whirl, if it's not for you then so be it.

Cheers

 

[Dayd3]

Anyway, 0 sec is supposed to cure this, and according to the vast majority of reports it does. It's your best friend whether you are shooting hand-held or from a tripod, unless you have to use burst mode. Yes, you can switch to 1/8 and Short release when in burst mode. I didn't try these settings by myself. I'm using 0 sec + short all the time and switch to a custom drive mode of 3/5 shots to have a 'burst-like' mode.

It seems 1/8 sec delay and Short release doesn't work well together as it is suggested by this test

Loading…

www.dpreview.com

 

[Dayd3]

Some indications from the past suggested that tripods don't guarantee shock-free shots. Probably it depends on the particular camera copy, the quality of the tripod, the focal length and maybe more parameters. For example, consider DPReview's studio scene shots of the E-M1. In the daylight setting, the shot taken at ISO 200 (shutter speeds of 1/80) is much blurrier than the one taken at ISO 800 (shutter speeds of 1/320):

A screen shot of the comparison tool; look at the tool for an accurate examination.

That difference was due to shutter shock. Shutter speed of 1/80 sec will almost surely introduce blur effect to some degree. 1/320 sec is safe zone.

 

[Anders W]

Zero second one eighth second and so on shutter shock speeds? I have the M10 with the 60MM macro lens and only shoot on a tripod. Thanks.

The shutter goes through four phases each time it is used:

1. First curtain closes (to prepare the sensor for exposure)

2. First curtain opens (for exposure)

3. Second curtain closes (for readout)

4. Second curtain opens (to resume live view)

With 0-second AS, a pause of approximately 1/40 s is introduced between phase 2 and the beginning of the actual exposure, which in this case is started electronically rather than by the shutter. With 1/8-second AS a pause of 1/8 s is introduced between phase 1 and phase 2. The same is true about any AS longer than 1/8 s. 0-second AS is far more effective against blur due to shutter shock than the other alternatives. It also introduces less delay so there is little reason to use anything else.

 

[Anders W]

Ok, I'm a nub when it comes to how these things work mechanically. But it sounds as if setting "0" anti-shock will help with sharpness for single images.

It certainly does.

Release lag time "short" will help with burst mode - say for birds.

In contrast to 0-second AS, release lag-time short works with burst mode. Whether it helps against shutter shock is less clear. According to the reports I have seen, some find it does, others don't. The reason for the conflicting reports might be sample variation between bodies. Of course, a lot of other explanations are also conceivable.

Am I reading this correctly? If "0" anti-shock is set does that mean you wouldn't also use release lag time "short"?

You can use both if you want.

 

[Gary from Seattle]

Ok, I'm a nub when it comes to how these things work mechanically. But it sounds as if setting "0" anti-shock will help with sharpness for single images.

It certainly does.

Release lag time "short" will help with burst mode - say for birds.

In contrast to 0-second AS, release lag-time short works with burst mode. Whether it helps against shutter shock is less clear. According to the reports I have seen, some find it does, others don't. The reason for the conflicting reports might be sample variation between bodies. Of course, a lot of other explanations are also conceivable.

Am I reading this correctly? If "0" anti-shock is set does that mean you wouldn't also use release lag time "short"?

You can use both if you want.

Thanks to Dayd3 and you Anders for the clarification. I may be a nub but I can learn!

 

[Gary from Seattle]

Zero second one eighth second and so on shutter shock speeds? I have the M10 with the 60MM macro lens and only shoot on a tripod. Thanks.

The shutter goes through four phases each time it is used:

1. First curtain closes (to prepare the sensor for exposure)

2. First curtain opens (for exposure)

3. Second curtain closes (for readout)

4. Second curtain opens (to resume live view)

With 0-second AS, a pause of approximately 1/40 s is introduced between phase 2 and the beginning of the actual exposure, which in this case is started electronically rather than by the shutter. With 1/8-second AS a pause of 1/8 s is introduced between phase 1 and phase 2. The same is true about any AS longer than 1/8 s. 0-second AS is far more effective against blur due to shutter shock than the other alternatives. It also introduces less delay so there is little reason to use anything else.

I just looked at the EXIF on shots where I know I used a tripod. I made sure the tripod was on firm ground and well settled. I know on these shots I used the self timer at 12 sec and IBIS off. The shots very in SS from 1/80th to 1/1, and for astro/moonlight 10 Sec to 25 Sec.

If I employ "0" sec AS and perhaps "short" lag time release is there anything else I should do to maximize sharpness?

I would assume on a longer exposure that so little of the total exposure could have shutter shock compared to the entire length it probably wouldn't make much difference?

 

[Anders W]

Zero second one eighth second and so on shutter shock speeds? I have the M10 with the 60MM macro lens and only shoot on a tripod. Thanks.

The shutter goes through four phases each time it is used:

1. First curtain closes (to prepare the sensor for exposure)

2. First curtain opens (for exposure)

3. Second curtain closes (for readout)

4. Second curtain opens (to resume live view)

With 0-second AS, a pause of approximately 1/40 s is introduced between phase 2 and the beginning of the actual exposure, which in this case is started electronically rather than by the shutter. With 1/8-second AS a pause of 1/8 s is introduced between phase 1 and phase 2. The same is true about any AS longer than 1/8 s. 0-second AS is far more effective against blur due to shutter shock than the other alternatives. It also introduces less delay so there is little reason to use anything else.

I just looked at the EXIF on shots where I know I used a tripod. I made sure the tripod was on firm ground and well settled. I know on these shots I used the self timer at 12 sec and IBIS off. The shots very in SS from 1/80th to 1/1, and for astro/moonlight 10 Sec to 25 Sec.

If I employ "0" sec AS and perhaps "short" lag time release is there anything else I should do to maximize sharpness?

Not that I can think of.

I would assume on a longer exposure that so little of the total exposure could have shutter shock compared to the entire length it probably wouldn't make much difference?

Correct. The blur due to shutter shock is known to peak at a shutter speed of about 1/125 s (give or take one 1/3 EV). As you go to longer exposures, the problem gradually disappears. Since the disappearance is gradual, the point at which we say that it is completely gone is somewhat arbitrary. But I think it safe to say that at one second or longer, you won't see it any more, and there won't be much left of it already some stops before that.

 

[Gary from Seattle]

And again, Anders (and Dayd3) I thank both of you for contributing very useful information.

 

[Anders W]

And again, Anders (and Dayd3) I thank both of you for contributing very useful information.

You are welcome Gary!

 

[sdgreen]

Not so big flaw because there is also possibility to use short release lag-time which is not as good as antishock 0 sec, but it helps to reduce shutter shock.

I tried those modes on my e-pl7 with m.zuiko 9-18 and found following:

1. Antishock 0 sec - all images are tack sharp but sequential mode is obviously not working

2. Release lag time short - used it in sequential mode and all images are sharper compared to those taken in normal release lag time mode.

So we have best and good solutions which can be used in single and sequential modes.

As the one who asked the original question , I didn't realise it'd generate so much discussion.

After playing with an EM1 in a shop for a while It's obvious to me now the difference between Release Lag & Antishock.

For anyone considering this camera & is confused (as I was) here is the essential: Release Lag is the only practical way of reducing any possibility of shutter blur when handheld burst shooting. Antishock can be used on a tripod.

After looking into this I'll give the OMD system a miss. There just seem to be too many reports of this occurring for me to invest. I'll stick with my Pentax SLR system for now

Your post Dayd3 was the key one as you're using the same lens as I wanted (9-18) & from your experience release lag is not as effective as Antishock

I'll wait & see what the next OMD body brings

For the record I really like the Fuji XT1 except, frustratingly, the auto bracketing is limited to +/- 1ev

 

[Dayd3]

Not so big flaw because there is also possibility to use short release lag-time which is not as good as antishock 0 sec, but it helps to reduce shutter shock.

I tried those modes on my e-pl7 with m.zuiko 9-18 and found following:

1. Antishock 0 sec - all images are tack sharp but sequential mode is obviously not working

2. Release lag time short - used it in sequential mode and all images are sharper compared to those taken in normal release lag time mode.

So we have best and good solutions which can be used in single and sequential modes.

As the one who asked the original question , I didn't realise it'd generate so much discussion.

After playing with an EM1 in a shop for a while It's obvious to me now the difference between Release Lag & Antishock.

For anyone considering this camera & is confused (as I was) here is the essential: Release Lag is the only practical way of reducing any possibility of shutter blur when handheld burst shooting. Antishock can be used on a tripod.

After looking into this I'll give the OMD system a miss. There just seem to be too many reports of this occurring for me to invest. I'll stick with my Pentax SLR system for now

Your post Dayd3 was the key one as you're using the same lens as I wanted (9-18) & from your experience release lag is not as effective as Antishock

I'll wait & see what the next OMD body brings

For the record I really like the Fuji XT1 except, frustratingly, the auto bracketing is limited to +/- 1ev

But to be fair antishock 0 sec can be compared only to mirror lock up mode on SLR, not to normal SLR mode which also suffers due to mirror slap. So, while release lag time short doesn't eliminate all vibrations it is comparable to normal shooting mode on SLR

 

[Anders W]

Not so big flaw because there is also possibility to use short release lag-time which is not as good as antishock 0 sec, but it helps to reduce shutter shock.

I tried those modes on my e-pl7 with m.zuiko 9-18 and found following:

1. Antishock 0 sec - all images are tack sharp but sequential mode is obviously not working

2. Release lag time short - used it in sequential mode and all images are sharper compared to those taken in normal release lag time mode.

So we have best and good solutions which can be used in single and sequential modes.

As the one who asked the original question , I didn't realise it'd generate so much discussion.

After playing with an EM1 in a shop for a while It's obvious to me now the difference between Release Lag & Antishock.

For anyone considering this camera & is confused (as I was) here is the essential: Release Lag is the only practical way of reducing any possibility of shutter blur when handheld burst shooting. Antishock can be used on a tripod.

After looking into this I'll give the OMD system a miss. There just seem to be too many reports of this occurring for me to invest. I'll stick with my Pentax SLR system for now

Did you see the work-around I suggested here for getting "burst mode" (of sorts) together with 0-second anti-shock? If you want burst-mode to bracket exposure for exposure-merging in PP (as I do myself), max fps is hardly of the essence. Hence, the solution I suggest should work well enough.

Besides, Pentax DSLRs are known to suffer from shutter shock too. See here for in-depth studies of the problem with the K-7 and K-5.

http://blog.falklumo.com/2010/07/lumolabs-shutter-induced-blur-with-slr.html

http://www.falklumo.com/lumolabs/articles/k5shutter/index.html

Your post Dayd3 was the key one as you're using the same lens as I wanted (9-18) & from your experience release lag is not as effective as Antishock

I'll wait & see what the next OMD body brings

For the record I really like the Fuji XT1 except, frustratingly, the auto bracketing is limited to +/- 1ev

 

[Dan]

Gary - Is the moon actually going to be in any of your frames? If so, I would test the various settings before doing your shots...that is if you are taking something critical on X night. Test things a few nights before.

You might be surprised by the moon and how much you can see things "vibrating"...I lost essentially an entire nights worth of eclipse shooting because I could see just a niggle of vibration. This was with a Nikon body btw.

I'd be very interested in your final settings that WORK!

Thanks and good luck,

Dan

 

[sdgreen]

I tried those modes on my e-pl7 with m.zuiko 9-18 and found following:

1. Antishock 0 sec - all images are tack sharp but sequential mode is obviously not working

2. Release lag time short - used it in sequential mode and all images are sharper compared to those taken in normal release lag time mode.

So we have best and good solutions which can be used in single and sequential modes.

But to be fair antishock 0 sec can be compared only to mirror lock up mode on SLR, not to normal SLR mode which also suffers due to mirror slap. So, while release lag time short doesn't eliminate all vibrations it is comparable to normal shooting mode on SLR

Thanks Dayd3. I can only rely on other peoples experience & your 2 answers sum up the options nicely.

Incidentally that's exactly the lens I want to use (and the 7-14 when it comes out).

The mirror slap analogy is an important factor for me. If you're suggesting using release lag time is comparable to handheld SLR shooting I'd be fine with that.

So..it's back on my list.

I'll still buy from a no-quibble returns shop & try all this out though

Thanks again & to all for answers

 

[photohounds]

Not so big flaw because there is also possibility to use short release lag-time which is not as good as antishock 0 sec, but it helps to reduce shutter shock.

I tried those modes on my e-pl7 with m.zuiko 9-18 and found following:

1. Antishock 0 sec - all images are tack sharp but sequential mode is obviously not working

2. Release lag time short - used it in sequential mode and all images are sharper compared to those taken in normal release lag time mode.

So we have best and good solutions which can be used in single and sequential modes.

As the one who asked the original question , I didn't realise it'd generate so much discussion.

After playing with an EM1 in a shop for a while It's obvious to me now the difference between Release Lag & Antishock.

For anyone considering this camera & is confused (as I was) here is the essential: Release Lag is the only practical way of reducing any possibility of shutter blur when handheld burst shooting. Antishock can be used on a tripod.

After looking into this I'll give the OMD system a miss. There just seem to be too many reports of this occurring for me to invest. I'll stick with my Pentax SLR system for now

Your post Dayd3 was the key one as you're using the same lens as I wanted (9-18) & from your experience release lag is not as effective as Antishock

I'll wait & see what the next OMD body brings

For the record I really like the Fuji XT1 except, frustratingly, the auto bracketing is limited to +/- 1ev

Reports from trolls in many instances, The firmware seems to have fixed it for those said to be affected.

Check http://photohounds.smugmug.com/browse - go to tests and then the two shuttershock galleries. I deliberately tried to induce it (but handheld properly instead of leaving the camera on a soft "support" as some have done to apparently exacerbate the issue).

Having cut my teeth before IS was invented and still getting good results, I didn't get identifiable s/s - even before the FW update. However, I have seen it reproduced and well analysed in some cases. Use (or misuse) of IS may be related in some cases.

For IS system quality and effectiveness this independent test (google translate helped me)

In this rigorous test (they made a rig to accurately shake each camera the same amount), have a look at the IS results of the '1 and the '5 against ANY other camera. OMDs are equal to marginally better than others at shorter shutter speeds (even with the cheaper 12-50 lens they used).

However as shutter speeds lengthened, the advantage of the OMD 5 axis IS becomes readily apparent. So much so, that i envisage others already copying it in their labs.

If you look through all my galleries you WILL see some image blur. That's motion that I judged acceptable given the circumstances - not s/s.

There's one (quite nondescript) shot of junk on a shelf - 2.5 seconds hand held - not pin sharp, but it amazed me anyway with the detail that IS available from the kit lens. There is NO evidence that other IS systems can perform that well so that - period. With OIS systems axial correction is impossible as rotating lens elements would do NOTHING to stabilise.
If you want to stick a toe in the water, why not a run-out EM5 in the new year? You'll soon see and can on sell if it doesn't work with minimal loss.

--
Well designed gear performs better for longer than well marketed gear.
Odd that people complain a lens is not sharp enough,
and then proceed to make pics where 95% is OOF ..
General Pics:
http://photohounds.smugmug.com/
Oly and other .. Gear test samples - even RB-67!:
http://photohounds.smugmug.com/Gear-tests
http://photohounds.smugmug.com/Gear-tests/6x7-early-80s/
How DO OMDs cope with dim-light action and smoke?
http://photohounds.smugmug.com/Performing-arts
.
NB: Zuiko 40-150/2.8 +TC in gear list is unrated. Pre ordered and expected it in November.

 

[Dayd3]

I tried those modes on my e-pl7 with m.zuiko 9-18 and found following:

1. Antishock 0 sec - all images are tack sharp but sequential mode is obviously not working

2. Release lag time short - used it in sequential mode and all images are sharper compared to those taken in normal release lag time mode.

So we have best and good solutions which can be used in single and sequential modes.

But to be fair antishock 0 sec can be compared only to mirror lock up mode on SLR, not to normal SLR mode which also suffers due to mirror slap. So, while release lag time short doesn't eliminate all vibrations it is comparable to normal shooting mode on SLR

Thanks Dayd3. I can only rely on other peoples experience & your 2 answers sum up the options nicely.

Incidentally that's exactly the lens I want to use (and the 7-14 when it comes out).

The mirror slap analogy is an important factor for me. If you're suggesting using release lag time is comparable to handheld SLR shooting I'd be fine with that.

So..it's back on my list.

I'll still buy from a no-quibble returns shop & try all this out though

Thanks again & to all for answers

You're welcome. Yes, it is best if you can try and see it for yourself.

Cheers

 

[sdgreen]

Did you see the work-around I suggested here for getting "burst mode" (of sorts) together with 0-second anti-shock? If you want burst-mode to bracket exposure for exposure-merging in PP (as I do myself), max fps is hardly of the essence. Hence, the solution I suggest should work well enough.

Besides, Pentax DSLRs are known to suffer from shutter shock too. See here for in-depth studies of the problem with the K-7 and K-5.

http://blog.falklumo.com/2010/07/lumolabs-shutter-induced-blur-with-slr.html

http://www.falklumo.com/lumolabs/articles/k5shutter/index.html

Your post Dayd3 was the key one as you're using the same lens as I wanted (9-18) & from your experience release lag is not as effective as Antishock

I'll wait & see what the next OMD body brings

For the record I really like the Fuji XT1 except, frustratingly, the auto bracketing is limited to +/- 1ev

I'm interested in this workaround but it links to an irrelevant site. Any chance you could post the correct link?

I've actually got a K5 & thankfully the article suggests that the K5 has improved over the K7

Thanks