To all you league photographers out there, what type of contract do you use, i.e., more specifically how is it worded? I was approached by the local little league to shoot their photos (team shot & individuals) but being that Ive never been the exclusive photographer of any type of league, and Im a pretty conscientious photographer who has everyone sign a model release, Im wondering how to go about getting every parent to sign a model release for their child and do I need to? Thanks in advance for any helpful info youre willing to pass on.
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League photography contracts
- Thread starter DuaneV
- Start date
PenguinPhotoCo
Veteran Member
nobody does contracts - not enforceable for one thing. If they let someone else shoot a game are you gonna sue them? It will RUIN your business to do so - no league will ever do business with a photographer that sues leagues.
Plus, these are volunteer parents and they change often in most leagues -this can work to your advantage as well as against you, just the nature of the business.
Plus, these are volunteer parents and they change often in most leagues -this can work to your advantage as well as against you, just the nature of the business.
henryp
Veteran Member
You're doing "memory mates?" A shot of each kid posed as if he's up at bat (or whatever) plus a shot of the team? You don't need any model releases to sell these to the parents. If you planned to market them to other companies for commercial use (little Jimmy brushes with Ipana or Sarah Smallfry wears SuperJump sneakers) you would, but for straight memory-mate stuff it's not necessary at all.
Does the league expect a piece of your action as a fundraiser? if so I used to write contracts so the league got a per centage pf package sales. Then each package lacked some add-on item I knew the kids would want and the parents buy, but since those are add-ons and not part of the package the league doesn't get a piece of those items.
Usually each coach gets a free 5x7 team shot. If the league wants plaques or other stuff, it comes out of their per centage. Make sure you control the schedule or they'll work you right through lunch. Make sure they understand what you need in terms of a work space (and a bathroom). Make sure you cover weather issues. Is there a rain date or an alternate indoor rain location? Make sure the league agrees that each coach MUST distribute your price list not less than a week before picture day. get a list of phone numbers for the league people and for each coach if possible.
PenguinPhotoCo
Veteran Member
all good advice and I do all of those things.
You are still at the mercy of the league officers - there is politics (jane hates bob or joe picked you as photog and john wanted someone else) so expect 'issues' with communication. And even if everyone is happy happy they are all volunteer parents most with full time jobs.
I shot a new league wednesday. Good communication wiith the pres via email from me. She did distribute the forms via email/pdf.
However, the schedule, as simple as it was, somehow got screwed up. Easy - one team at 6, and then another every 15 minutes. We got there at 5 (a bit early but not sure of where we were going or going to face when we got there and I HATE rushing). Good thing as a team showed up as we began to setup "our coach told his pictures were at 5" and then another showed at 5:30 with the same spiel. Yet most showed up as scheduled...
Had a soccer league a few weeks back, weather backup was gym but the pres failed to do anything about it...twice. Third time I called and got the gym. Good thing as it rained that night too.
The kids will be fine - it's the parents that cause you all the heartache!
You are still at the mercy of the league officers - there is politics (jane hates bob or joe picked you as photog and john wanted someone else) so expect 'issues' with communication. And even if everyone is happy happy they are all volunteer parents most with full time jobs.
I shot a new league wednesday. Good communication wiith the pres via email from me. She did distribute the forms via email/pdf.
However, the schedule, as simple as it was, somehow got screwed up. Easy - one team at 6, and then another every 15 minutes. We got there at 5 (a bit early but not sure of where we were going or going to face when we got there and I HATE rushing). Good thing as a team showed up as we began to setup "our coach told his pictures were at 5" and then another showed at 5:30 with the same spiel. Yet most showed up as scheduled...
Had a soccer league a few weeks back, weather backup was gym but the pres failed to do anything about it...twice. Third time I called and got the gym. Good thing as it rained that night too.
The kids will be fine - it's the parents that cause you all the heartache!
I appreciate the info guys.
Yes, Im doing a team photo and then every kid comes through the line and gets an individual shot. The league has never worked with a true professional (just parents with cameras) so they don't know what theyre doing either.
Any time I shoot with anyone I get a model release simply to cover my butt. I don't want to worry about 30 years down the road and I figure by having people sign a contract saying they are posing, purchasing my services, etc., on their own free will and they understand I own the photos, they don't, I can market them, etc., Im covering myself for future issues that might arise. I figure I let them see Im serious up front and then if they had a problem I have a contract signed saying they understood it when they signed it.
But anyway, the league is expecting nothing, although I plan on giving them some prints to use. They just want the kids to have photos of their teams. This is what they've had in the past. Im looking at doing an order envelope with a few packages (8x10 team then an 8x10 of the individual, 2 -5x7, 8 wallets and 8 baseball cards for $45 bucks) since the league wont hire me. I know how to run my lights and setup, have 2 assistants for collecting envelopes and posing kids, etc. Below is a sample I shot the other night. I showed it to a few parents and they loved it and the package prices, so since there are nearly 300 kids in the league, I can probably make decent money just on the packages.
So anyway, I just wanted to know how everyone else was doing little league, etc. If I should have something about being the sole photographer able to sell prints, etc. There are a couple hack moms who like to think theyre photographers and try to sell prints from Rite Aid on the side. I DONT want them interfering with my business or people thinking theyre putting out the good stuff, Im putting out the bad stuff, etc.
Anyway, thanks again for the info. Here is the sample I shot the other night. Team photos will have the league name, year and team name on them. Ive got some sample baseball cards and fridge magnets coming too with this print.
Yes, Im doing a team photo and then every kid comes through the line and gets an individual shot. The league has never worked with a true professional (just parents with cameras) so they don't know what theyre doing either.
Any time I shoot with anyone I get a model release simply to cover my butt. I don't want to worry about 30 years down the road and I figure by having people sign a contract saying they are posing, purchasing my services, etc., on their own free will and they understand I own the photos, they don't, I can market them, etc., Im covering myself for future issues that might arise. I figure I let them see Im serious up front and then if they had a problem I have a contract signed saying they understood it when they signed it.
But anyway, the league is expecting nothing, although I plan on giving them some prints to use. They just want the kids to have photos of their teams. This is what they've had in the past. Im looking at doing an order envelope with a few packages (8x10 team then an 8x10 of the individual, 2 -5x7, 8 wallets and 8 baseball cards for $45 bucks) since the league wont hire me. I know how to run my lights and setup, have 2 assistants for collecting envelopes and posing kids, etc. Below is a sample I shot the other night. I showed it to a few parents and they loved it and the package prices, so since there are nearly 300 kids in the league, I can probably make decent money just on the packages.
So anyway, I just wanted to know how everyone else was doing little league, etc. If I should have something about being the sole photographer able to sell prints, etc. There are a couple hack moms who like to think theyre photographers and try to sell prints from Rite Aid on the side. I DONT want them interfering with my business or people thinking theyre putting out the good stuff, Im putting out the bad stuff, etc.
Anyway, thanks again for the info. Here is the sample I shot the other night. Team photos will have the league name, year and team name on them. Ive got some sample baseball cards and fridge magnets coming too with this print.
PenguinPhotoCo
Veteran Member
copy someone else. easiest way to do it. no need to reinvent the wheel.
get a lab that specializes in sports - there are many. I like HH color lab. I hear millers is good.
Labs can supply the order forms/envelopes - one side shows products and the other is custom to your offerings. they can usually help you setup what packages to offer.
then you'll need to customize to your area - I shoot all over a county and each community has its quirks - one loves statues, another key chains, another buysa lot of team photos. Plus each sport has it's own uniqueness - most girl sports will have a lot of 'buddy' shots (2 to 6 friends in a shot and usually they get buttons or magnets for each kid in the pic).
Labs will sort it for you - you hand a bag per coach/team to the league and you're done. Each kid will be in their own envelope. You can even have the lab stuff flyers in there for you (for reorders, to push other things you do, etc). easy peasy. Cost is 30c to 70c/order envelope. Consider that if a mom orders JUST a button that costs you $2.50 you add the 70c plus order form cost (50c?) so it now really costs you $3.70 plus the time to shoot/edit/order to sell it for what, $5? Just keep this in mind when pricing things and making polcies! If you promise the league 10% back you 'lost' another 50c on this 'sale'. Make ANY mistakes and you can LOSE money more quickly than you can blink.
How far you want to take it is up to you - I have a table with samples of every product and take cash, credit cards and checks (most pay by check - it's CRITICAL you get checks cleared before delivery or you'll never get your money once they get their product - remember, they're deadbeats to start with as they wrote a bad check!). A small league is pretty easy - when you have 500 kids and find out you have 430 checks to deposit you'll soon discover A) it takes a lot of time to make that deposit, endorse eveyr check, tally them , fill ou the deposit slip and B) many banks charge after say, 200 transactions a month, and each check IS a transaction - my bang charge 50c PER transaction over 200...so those 430 checks is gonna rack up a bank fee of over $100!
I bring 1 to 3 people to work the table - take money, verify it's right, verify paperwork is correct. I have a photog and 1 to 2 posers. I have shot 125 kids in an hour - and not been rushed. I can shoot 300 kids in under 3 hours including set up. This is important for many reasons - access to fields for picture day can be limited, gym time often costs money (per hour for janitors to open it up) so the faster you are the better off everyone is. remember YOU don't want to be standing in the middle of a sunny field in 90F weather for 5 hours - or longer if you think you want to work alone.
As the boss YOU are the 'answer man' and there will be questions. "what is a ...." "can i get this and that togheter?' 'can I put johnny and his dad in the same picture? And do I need a separate form for that from johnny by himself?' or the great one - can I split a package - the 5x7 of johnny and dad and just johnny on the memory mate?'
There is good money to be made - but organization is CRITICAL to making it successful. Everything from the schedule to the paperwork to the ordering, sorting and how you file things so when a mom calls and says "I was supposed to get a button and didn't" you can fix this without spending an hour of your time to do so.
get a lab that specializes in sports - there are many. I like HH color lab. I hear millers is good.
Labs can supply the order forms/envelopes - one side shows products and the other is custom to your offerings. they can usually help you setup what packages to offer.
then you'll need to customize to your area - I shoot all over a county and each community has its quirks - one loves statues, another key chains, another buysa lot of team photos. Plus each sport has it's own uniqueness - most girl sports will have a lot of 'buddy' shots (2 to 6 friends in a shot and usually they get buttons or magnets for each kid in the pic).
Labs will sort it for you - you hand a bag per coach/team to the league and you're done. Each kid will be in their own envelope. You can even have the lab stuff flyers in there for you (for reorders, to push other things you do, etc). easy peasy. Cost is 30c to 70c/order envelope. Consider that if a mom orders JUST a button that costs you $2.50 you add the 70c plus order form cost (50c?) so it now really costs you $3.70 plus the time to shoot/edit/order to sell it for what, $5? Just keep this in mind when pricing things and making polcies! If you promise the league 10% back you 'lost' another 50c on this 'sale'. Make ANY mistakes and you can LOSE money more quickly than you can blink.
How far you want to take it is up to you - I have a table with samples of every product and take cash, credit cards and checks (most pay by check - it's CRITICAL you get checks cleared before delivery or you'll never get your money once they get their product - remember, they're deadbeats to start with as they wrote a bad check!). A small league is pretty easy - when you have 500 kids and find out you have 430 checks to deposit you'll soon discover A) it takes a lot of time to make that deposit, endorse eveyr check, tally them , fill ou the deposit slip and B) many banks charge after say, 200 transactions a month, and each check IS a transaction - my bang charge 50c PER transaction over 200...so those 430 checks is gonna rack up a bank fee of over $100!
I bring 1 to 3 people to work the table - take money, verify it's right, verify paperwork is correct. I have a photog and 1 to 2 posers. I have shot 125 kids in an hour - and not been rushed. I can shoot 300 kids in under 3 hours including set up. This is important for many reasons - access to fields for picture day can be limited, gym time often costs money (per hour for janitors to open it up) so the faster you are the better off everyone is. remember YOU don't want to be standing in the middle of a sunny field in 90F weather for 5 hours - or longer if you think you want to work alone.
As the boss YOU are the 'answer man' and there will be questions. "what is a ...." "can i get this and that togheter?' 'can I put johnny and his dad in the same picture? And do I need a separate form for that from johnny by himself?' or the great one - can I split a package - the 5x7 of johnny and dad and just johnny on the memory mate?'
There is good money to be made - but organization is CRITICAL to making it successful. Everything from the schedule to the paperwork to the ordering, sorting and how you file things so when a mom calls and says "I was supposed to get a button and didn't" you can fix this without spending an hour of your time to do so.
Here in Australia there are tight controls at most clubs of what and who you can shoot - all part of the child protection policy that is in place for minors.
Clubs often get around the 'red tape' by having a clause in their registration details which in part says that in the course of playing for Club 'X' your child may have photographs taken of them at various times during the season. Then the parents are asked to say whether they agree or object to that. If they object (and there are very few indeed who do) the club officials note who the kid is and let any subsequent photographers know about the "no photos of Johnny" situation.
I had one incident last year where due to a domestic dispute and AVO's a child in the team photo was not identified by name so that the estranged father could not track down the whereabouts of his child. That's the most extreme case I've come across in my experience but obviously there are "issues" out there.
Zoooming
henryp
Veteran Member
If you were shooting my kid's league I wouldn't sign one under ANY circumstances. You photograph the kid, I buy the team 5x7 and the package of individuals and we're done. Your butt is covered if you don't then try to market my kid's image. Otherwise my lawyer eats your innards.
Henry Posner
B&H Photo-Video
Why? They've signed a release with the school for photos, a release with the league for photos, why not with the photographer himself? Is it just to be difficult? Is it to feel superior? As a dad Id rather see a release and sign it than have some random person photograph my kid.
So if I post the team photo on my Facebook page or website youre irate about it? If the photo of the league Champs appears in the paper are you going down there with your lawyer? I honestly don't understand the thought process here. If Im paying a photographer for photos, I have no issues seeing my kid used in his pamphlet, website, etc. What gives?
So if I post the team photo on my Facebook page or website youre irate about it? If the photo of the league Champs appears in the paper are you going down there with your lawyer? I honestly don't understand the thought process here. If Im paying a photographer for photos, I have no issues seeing my kid used in his pamphlet, website, etc. What gives?
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