Given a bit of hard time at the US customs for a DSLR

[BRJR]

Exactly.

--
BRJR ....(LOL, some of us are quite satisfied as Hobbyists ..)

Sure, for the most part: checking the pictures is not part of his job.

--
Thierry

I think if you look into it you will find that Customs are entitled to look into pretty much anything you bring into the country, and that includes the content of all sorts of data storage devices.

Most of the time Customs are not as thorough as your encounter with them, but once in a while it happens and they don't have to justify their actions.

This guy was only doing what he is entitled to do.

I spent a career going through Customs all over the world and in most jurisdictions Customs have very extensive search authority.

 

[Mr Roygbiv rainbow]

The handcarts were state of the art carbon fibre fold up that could take a payload of 150 KG and be stowed in a flight bag . Cost $500 each !
--
Roygbiv

 

[Chipsthe1]

I once knew a guy that used to go through Customs with a massive amount of photography equiptment on a handcart every month of the year . They stopped him every time but let him go because he had all the receipts . They finally got him in the end for smuggling handcarts !

During WWII the story was about a worker stealing wheelbarrows

 

[ZorSy]

I am not so sure. We assume that they have all the authority, but maybe not. In fact they don't have all authority in any democratic country. The question is 1) are they going to tell you your rights and 2) do they even know where their authority ends?

For instance say I have a nice lnotepad in my luggage with a leather cover. A custom officer may have the right to look at the outside of the notebook, say to decide whether it has a value etc. But does he have the right to open it and start reading your notes, if even for the 1st two pages? I very much doubt it. Same for the pictures stored in the camera IMO.

Mind you the fact that he perused a few shots was not a big deal for me. In fact I didn't care. But that does not mean that in this very specific aspect the Customs officer did not go beyond what he is allowed to do: he did, probably out of ignorance more than anything else.
--
Thierry

I enjoyed watching the series "Airport" - it's a sort of documentary about airport security etc, both in UK and Australia. There is one big statement - they are ABOVE national laws in many regards - well, at customs you have not entered the "target" country, hence the laws they obey are the ones they wrote. So you should as well, without questioning them much.

Registering the expensive items is not a bad idea not just for the customs but as well for the insurance purposes.

 

[Ray Maines]

give em a uniform and they think they are Adolf Hitler

While I generally agree with that statement, I'm going to differ this time.

I'm especially offended by the idiotic behavior of rent-a-cops, the TSA, and traffic enforcement officers - especially the state Patrol, but Customs Officers get my benefit of the doubt.

Everything in this modern world of ours is a trade off of sorts. On one hand we wouldn't want just anybody looking at documents that outlined trade secrets that our competition would love to know about, but - for example - child pornography is strictly illegal and needs to be rooted out and punished.

I get all indigent when/if I get hassled for something I am totally innocent of, but after I take a deep breath and ascertain the official was actually doing the job they were hired to do I settle down and go along with the program.

I draw the line at missing a flight though. I really don't care who's doing any kind of a job. I'm not smuggling camera equipment, dealing in kiddie porn, or selling security secrets and I really, Really, REALLY don't want to miss my connecting flight! 'K?

--
Tacoma, Washington, USA

 

[Mr Roygbiv rainbow]

Will someone buy him another pint and tell him to shut up about the war ?
--
Roygbiv

 

[Leswick]

I think if you look into it you will find that Customs are entitled to look into pretty much anything you bring into the country, and that includes the content of all sorts of data storage devices.

I am not so sure. We assume that they have all the authority, but maybe not. In fact they don't have all authority in any democratic country. The question is 1) are they going to tell you your rights and 2) do they even know where their authority ends?

For instance say I have a nice lnotepad in my luggage with a leather cover. A custom officer may have the right to look at the outside of the notebook, say to decide whether it has a value etc. But does he have the right to open it and start reading your notes, if even for the 1st two pages? I very much doubt it. Same for the pictures stored in the camera IMO.

Mind you the fact that he perused a few shots was not a big deal for me. In fact I didn't care. But that does not mean that in this very specific aspect the Customs officer did not go beyond what he is allowed to do: he did, probably out of ignorance more than anything else.
--
Thierry

James is absolutely on the money. I've been crossing the border to Canada for over 7yrs (5 days/wk) and I can write a book as to what I've seen. The officers can look at any and all cavities....in case you were wondering. Is it part of their job ? The answer is unequivocal yes. But, whenever something seem questionable......they can easily make an excuse (to their supervisors, if necessary) that they saw something in your eyes, on your shoes, your phys reaction, that you told a fib....and they can't trust you, bla bla. And yes, they are the ones that threw 20 nearly identical questions....just to see if they can trip you up. If you feel that you're above all that, then go on believing this. People cross the border stealing corporate secrets (software, etc) and if they feel that something is up, they will check every sentence you wrote to whomever....and they will detain you if necessary. Yes, I've seen people loose their flights (in Canada and in US).

The bottom line is, If you don't want them to see what you have on your laptop or camera, you should delete/purge the stuff. You can send those pix (if they are of sensitive nature) to your friends or however else you may do it to keep it. Though I was on friendly (and on pro) basis, since they saw me nearly every day, I filled out the paperwork to register my camera (it was Fuji at that time), so I wouldn't get accused, as if there was any intention to sell - it was much easier on my constitution.

Leswick

 

[Mr Roygbiv rainbow]

You have to give these guys a lot of respect because if they find something on you they have the power to cause you a bowel movement when you least expect it !
--
Roygbiv

 

[Pete Stavrakoglou]

The officer was just doing his job

Sure, for the most part: checking the pictures is not part of his job.

and when in doubt you should carry proof of purchase and/or register the items.

I asked about bringing proof of purchases. He recommended against bringing a proof of purchase He did not elaborate why (I suppose that he may question its authenticity)

According to this US Customs officer the correct and only way to deal with this is to register the camera.

Sounds like we're all guilty until we prove ourselves to be innocent. Even a receipt which in most cases carries the serial number is not proof? It's ridiculous.

--
My humble photo gallery: http://www.pete-the-greek.com

 

[glasswave]

...you seemed to have played it well. Good job not objecting to his nosiness. You must remember, that while you are in a country (from the US to Uzbekistan), you have some rights, but when you are at a border/port of entry you have no rights. If you get the least bit snooty and pretend that you do have rights, you might just end up in the back room with someone's gloved hand up your anus.

I have ended up in that backroom before (fortunately I was able to keep my pants on), with my possessions spread across a 10 meter area and getting grilled by some very frightening Homeland Security agents. It's not somewhere you ever want to be.

Another time, an agent stole my leather man. Always be careful at border crossings & never think the US is any exception.

--

There is simply too much beauty in the world to photograph it all, but I'm trying.

 

[Pete Stavrakoglou]

I think if you look into it you will find that Customs are entitled to look into pretty much anything you bring into the country, and that includes the content of all sorts of data storage devices.

I am not so sure. We assume that they have all the authority, but maybe not. In fact they don't have all authority in any democratic country. The question is 1) are they going to tell you your rights and 2) do they even know where their authority ends?

All I can suggest Thierry is that you don't have to take my word on it so perhaps you should look into it. You may feel it is an invasion of your privacy but they DO have a lot of authority when it comes to inspection/searching when you enter the country. There is not much "Maybe" about it. Every thing you bring in is subject to inspection, including stored electronic data by the way.

I also think they are quite aware of how much authority they have. I suppose as in any large organization where people are given authority there is going to be the odd one who becomes over zealous and I guess at the end of the day you end up riding it out unless you want to tilt at windmills .

James, sometimes I wonder about this. We've heard case after case of TSA agents overstepping their authority. There are numerous cases of police officers prohibiting people from shooting in public, obviously they don't know the laws they enforce. Even the well-trained NYPD have had officers telling people they can't take photos that they are legally entitled to take.

For instance say I have a nice lnotepad in my luggage with a leather cover. A custom officer may have the right to look at the outside of the notebook, say to decide whether it has a value etc. But does he have the right to open it and start reading your notes, if even for the 1st two pages? I very much doubt it. Same for the pictures stored in the camera IMO.
--
Thierry

--
My humble photo gallery: http://www.pete-the-greek.com

 

[TOF guy]

All I can suggest Thierry is that you don't have to take my word on it so perhaps you should look into it.

You may be right. I'm not a lawyer. And I'm certainly not looking for an argument with a Custom officer. They do their job. I suspect that a mistake was made in this case. But I also recognize that the officer wasn't trying to invade my privacy - he couldn't care less - just trying to find clues about whether the camera was just bought or not. No biggie and nothing I'm losing sleep over.

All put together the point of the post is that one should "delete" pictures off the memory card prior to crossing the customs if the pics represent some private part of their life that they don't want anybody to look at (as somebody has already pointed out, although I'd say there is no need to go any further than "deleting" the images using the camera interface, since the camera actually does not erase the pictures and these can easily be undeleted thereafter.)

--
Thierry

 

[James C. Murray]

You have to give these guys a lot of respect because if they find something on you they have the power to cause you a > bowel movement when you least expect it !

Now THAT is about the most concise way of describing their power that I have seen

Good to know. If I ever go out of the US with my DSLR, I believe I will pack my invoice.
--
Steve
[email protected]

Steve, another possibility is to photograph your invoice/documentation and E-Mail it to your self so you can access it if you need it. My practical experience with customs over the years is that I have rarely been asked more than the routine questions, but if you are the one that gets diverted for secondary screening that day, for whatever reason, it helps to be able to satisfy their inspection with documentation and gets you on your way.

You could also carry a USB drive with your documents on it, (Encrypted of course . I have done that with tickets, hotel reservations and so on just as a back up.

Ray Maines

I draw the line at missing a flight though. I really don't care who's doing any kind > of a job. I'm not smuggling camera > equipment, dealing in kiddie porn, or selling > security secrets and I really, Really, REALLY don't want to miss my connecting > flight! 'K?

Ray, missing your flight would be a real pain but just a short story about missing flights.

A fair long while ago one of our aircraft was impounded by Canada Customs on a station stop. It was supposed to go from Zurich to Montreal to Toronto. The passengers and crew cleared customs in Montreal and the crew then took the flight on to Toronto. A couple of crew did not take all their bags through Customs, left them on board the aircraft. Unfortunately they had Booze in their bags which the Customs found when they went through the aircraft during the station stop.

Result, a DC-8 impounded for long enough to make a point, everybody was delayed and that made sure that everybody in the airline knew about it, crew especially.

Management were not amused and some disciplinary action ensued but it did get everyones attention.

 

[TOF guy]

You have to give these guys a lot of respect because if they find something on you -

And what are they going to find?

they have the power to cause you a bowel movement when you least expect it !

I see it differently. The U.S. is not a country where an officer - being a Customs officer or whatever - can make out of thin air some excuse to act in an abusive manner. Well, maybe he can: but there is a difference between what he can and what he may do. He may also find himself having that bowel movement you mention when a Federal judge rules violation of civil rights, and impose said officers and, separately, the department for which they work, to paid each several tens of thousands of dollars of compensation to the plaintiff.

This is not a made up story. It has happened in the US (NJ) to officers mistreating a photographer (improperly preventing the photographer from taking pictures and confiscating his equipment).

--
Thierry

 

[WoodMaven]

Freedom? Whazzat?
--
Wilhelm

 

[TOF guy]

James wrote:

they DO have a lot of authority when it comes to inspection/searching when you enter the country. There is not much "Maybe" about it. Every thing you bring in is subject to inspection, including stored electronic data by the way.

Peter answered:

James, sometimes I wonder about this. We've heard case after case of TSA agents overstepping their authority. There are numerous cases of police officers prohibiting people from shooting in public, obviously they don't know the laws they enforce. Even the well-trained NYPD have had officers telling people they can't take photos that they are legally entitled to take.

I find it highly suspicious that in a coutry like the U.S.. which is quite civil right conscient. a custom officer may be given an authority which clearly exceeds the requirement of his mission. A custom officer job is to ensure that no forbidden agricultural product is brought in (actually that may not even be his authority, but that of the relevant Department), as well as forbidden substances (in other words drugs) and duties when applicable have been paid on imported goods. How does checking for pictures in a camera fits in this job description?
--
Thierry

 

[James C. Murray]

TOF guy wrote:

drugs) and duties when applicable have been paid on imported goods. How does > checking for pictures in a camera fits in this job description?
--
Thierry

Well Child Porn is one prohibited item, couple of 64GB cards would carry a fair bit. Oh, and if you believe that Customs are unaware that simply deleting files does not remove them from the card you may be in for a surprise, they are not stupid.

However, as I said you might do some research as I think you seriously misunderstand some of the authority and functions of the Customs Service.

 

[TOF guy]

Well Child Porn is one prohibited item, couple of 64GB cards would carry a fair bit.

It could. And?

In the US an officer needs a warrant to do specific searches. There can be illegal drugs (say) in any house. Yet he cannot decide to just enter your house and do a search just in case. At least there must be reasonable grounds to belive that you store such illegal drugs before obtaining a warrant.

A US Custom officer may have some extended rights regarding searches, but I very much doubt that there are no limits,. For instance the officer has no ground to believe that you carry pics of child pornography, yet invade your privacy by looking into your pictures.

if you believe that Customs are unaware that simply deleting files does not remove them from the card you may be in for a surprise, they are not stupid.

Nobody said anything about anybody being stupid. A lot of people do not know that deleting an image from a card does not actually erase the data. That does not make them "stupid", just ignorant of a computer fact.

Likewise a lot of people do not seem to realize that a lens may be worth even more than an expensive looking dSLR body. Example: the Customs officer I dealt with, who did not ask a single question about the origin of the lens. The fact that he doesn't know a few facts about camera equipment does not make him stupid.

Even if an officer is aware that images can be undeleted, he would need some serious reasons to take the card of the camera, put it in a computer, and run a program to undelete pictures. I very much doubt this is done on a routine basis, or even in a infrequent basis.

However, as I said you might do some research as I think you seriously misunderstand some of the authority and functions of the Customs Service.

You make it sound like the Custom and Border Protection service is some kind of gestapo without any limit to their authority. I don't buy it. But please enlight me as you've obviously done some seriousresearch yourself. No need for me to reinvent the wheel: surely you have a few links pointing to the research you've done and could point me to the right direction.

--
Thierry

 

[TOF guy]

you might just end up in the back room with someone's gloved hand up your anus.

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/175/kw/complaint/related/1

--

Thierry

 

[draganflyer]

The acid test is carrying the properly endorsed registration signed and stamped by U.S Customs.

It's the same process in Canada; take your gear prior to departure to Canada Customs. They examine it, record serial numbers, etc. on their little green card, the Officer signs and stamps it, and you're good to go.

I've done this prior to travelling abroad for at least 20 years...it is a minor inconvenience in the long run. I've had my equipment questioned several times, have always been able to produce the green form...end of discussion