Do not buy the new Nokia N8 if you are keen on Night Photography

[Xpress_Shutter]

Here´s the deal:

I´ve had several cameraphones in the past. SE´s, Nokia´s, Samsung´s... All of them manage to take reasonably good night shots, with Exposure Times as long as 1s. Take these shots as examples (1s of exposure time - varying ISO Speeds):

From my Sony Ericsson Satio (1 year-old camera):



(The shot below is a million times better than any shot from Nokia´s 'camera school'):



From my Sony Ericsson C905 (2-year-old camera):







And here´s the N8 shot that Damian has posted in his flickr account (LOL):

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dinning/4996794525/sizes/o/ (SS: 1/17s !)

Do you know what´s the slowest Shutter Speed of the N8?

1/15s. You´ve read it right. 1/15s!!

That´s an absolutely ridiculous minimum Shutter Speed for a device that feels proud of having a 1/1.83" sensor.

I would like to read what the famous DAMIAN DINNING (the man behind N8´s camera) has to write about that (please, man, do not come with a 'miraculous' solution like 'increase the ISO to 800').

 

[Anfy]

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[Xpress_Shutter]

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[Anfy]

It is just that I do not agree much with the usefulness of threads that have a subject of a " Do not buy/go/do this or that " kind. Maybe a " I will not etc." would be more appropriate.

As a first post it seems a bit strange to call "absolutely ridiculous" a device and to flame an express or at least implied personal criticism against its architect.
All this, of course, in my - as ever - very humble opinion.

Ciao!

no text

--
Viva la evolución!

 

[Jon Rty]

I can see how that can be an issue, but it's a very specific one. The N8 is able to take good photographs at night, even with the present limitations.

http://www.esphoneblog.com/2010/06/22/nokia-n8-night-sample-photos/

Personally I find the samples in that link better looking than the ones in your gallery.

The limitation also only affects night-time landscapes, as for social occasions, or in fact for anything hand-held, the N8 should be superior. Especially at night, thanks to the powerful flash and clean high ISO.

http://blog.gsmarena.com/new-nokia-n8-camera-samples-are-here-ready-to-blow-up-your-mind/

Considering that the N8 doesn't even offer a tripod mount it's clear that it isn't designed for slow-speed shooting. It's a omission, but I'd suspect that it will only affect a fraction of owners.

Here´s the deal:

I´ve had several cameraphones in the past. SE´s, Nokia´s, Samsung´s... All of them manage to take reasonably good night shots, with Exposure Times as long as 1s. Take these shots as examples (1s of exposure time - varying ISO Speeds):

And here´s the N8 shot that Damian has posted in his flickr account (LOL):

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dinning/4996794525/sizes/o/ (SS: 1/17s !)

Do you know what´s the slowest Shutter Speed of the N8?

1/15s. You´ve read it right. 1/15s!!

That´s an absolutely ridiculous minimum Shutter Speed for a device that feels proud of having a 1/1.83" sensor.

 

[AshMills]

Perhaps a Nikon D3S, with 24mm 1.4 would be more suitable.

lol.

http://www.AshMills.com

 

[Xpress_Shutter]

Salve.

What´s definitely not useful is a message like yours 'a strange first post indeed'.

If I had read something like this before, I would not have bought a N8 at first place, and that would be hugely useful to me.

So, consider this is a message for people like me. Your needs are different than mine? Ok, I respect them. Please, respect mine.

Besides that, I guess that you haven´t read my post carefully. I haven´t written anything about the N8 being 'absolutely ridiculous' as a whole. What is ridiculous is this Shutter Speed limitation.

What´s the point in having a 1/1.83" sensor inside a mobile phone if it has been limited to output only that kind of SS?

ISO-800? That´s pretty useless if you wanna take a proper night shot with a mobile phone, unless you plan to print VGA res pictures.

My point regarding Damian Dinning is this:

He has made public some of its comments regarding how good the new camera module is, how good it´s in low light, how big is its sensor, etc.

He has made a strong publicizing about the camera.

What´s the problem in facing some criticism?

I am not saying he´s stupid.

It´s merely a criticism about one of his 'creations'. And that doesn´t come for free. I´ve paid for it. It´s my right to criticize it and to inquire about its performance.

He will not make me a favor by doing that.

It is just that I do not agree much with the usefulness of threads that have a subject of a " Do not buy/go/do this or that " kind. Maybe a " I will not etc." would be more appropriate.

As a first post it seems a bit strange to call "absolutely ridiculous" a device and to flame an express or at least implied personal criticism against its architect.
All this, of course, in my - as ever - very humble opinion.

Ciao!

no text

--
Viva la evolución!

 

[Xpress_Shutter]

I agree that those pics look better than mine. That´s precisely why I´ve bought it.

But I doubt very much that these have been taken by an N8.

Be free to choose any other recent source in order to post High-ISO pictures taken with the N8.

Take this source as an example:

http://www.fonearena.com/blog/23490/dubai-at-night-through-the-eyes-of-the-nokia-n8.html

Sorry, but what I see is a bunch of horrible shots at higher ISO settings.

You talk about the N8 not having a tripod mount. Which phone from my list have it? That´s hardly a limitation for my shots... And it´s definitely not a good excuse for the issue.

I can see how that can be an issue, but it's a very specific one. The N8 is able to take good photographs at night, even with the present limitations.

http://www.esphoneblog.com/2010/06/22/nokia-n8-night-sample-photos/

Personally I find the samples in that link better looking than the ones in your gallery.

The limitation also only affects night-time landscapes, as for social occasions, or in fact for anything hand-held, the N8 should be superior. Especially at night, thanks to the powerful flash and clean high ISO.

http://blog.gsmarena.com/new-nokia-n8-camera-samples-are-here-ready-to-blow-up-your-mind/

Considering that the N8 doesn't even offer a tripod mount it's clear that it isn't designed for slow-speed shooting. It's a omission, but I'd suspect that it will only affect a fraction of owners.

Here´s the deal:

I´ve had several cameraphones in the past. SE´s, Nokia´s, Samsung´s... All of them manage to take reasonably good night shots, with Exposure Times as long as 1s. Take these shots as examples (1s of exposure time - varying ISO Speeds):

And here´s the N8 shot that Damian has posted in his flickr account (LOL):

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dinning/4996794525/sizes/o/ (SS: 1/17s !)

Do you know what´s the slowest Shutter Speed of the N8?

1/15s. You´ve read it right. 1/15s!!

That´s an absolutely ridiculous minimum Shutter Speed for a device that feels proud of having a 1/1.83" sensor.

 

[Xpress_Shutter]

LOL... What a comediant!

 

[Xpress_Shutter]

The thing is that it´s a much wiser decision leaving to the customer deciding whether to have or not to have a slower Shutter Speed.

What´s the problem in adding an Advanced User menu, or something like that?

If you wanna use it in fully automatic mode, you´re set. You´ll never have problems with it.

But the way it is now, it simply doesn´t live up to its specs.

I am not asking for a HW change.

All these changes I am asking for could be implemented through a pretty easy SW implementation.

 

[Anada]

Ehhmm,

I bought the N8 less than a week ago, and I have to say it's camera is JUST FANTASTIC!!!

Yesterday I took a pic of our dog in iso 800, and the result was BETTER than my Pana Lumix TZ7 (ZS3), not so against my D300 though, but it isn't possible at all.

So what are you talking about??????

Sorry, right now I'm outside my home and I can't connect my N8 to my old laptop without bluetooth. So I cannot show the pics yet, but I try to do so tomorrow.

Antti

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some pics: http://www.pbase.com/anada

 

[Xpress_Shutter]

I knew that someone would come and say that... LOL

http://www.fonearena.com/blog/23490/dubai-at-night-through-the-eyes-of-the-nokia-n8.html

Can you please indicate one GREAT shot from these high-ISO samples above?

 

[CFynn]

Do you know what´s the slowest Shutter Speed of the N8?

1/15s. You´ve read it right. 1/15s!!

That´s an absolutely ridiculous minimum Shutter Speed for a device that feels proud of having a 1/1.83" sensor.

What's wrong with a minimum shutter speed of 1/15 on a camera phone that presumably doesn't have a tripod socket? Could you hold it steady for longer than that?

• C

 

[Xpress_Shutter]

Would you mind answering these simple questions first?

If it doesn´t have a tripod mount nor lower shutter speeds:

=> Why does it have a self exposure timer at first place?

=> Why Nokia has offered it bundled with a tripod (suction vent mount) here in Brazil?

 

[Anfy]

What´s definitely not useful is a message like yours 'a strange first post indeed'.

I was quite used in the good old days to introduce myself in a forum - not a general rule, just netiquette - especially before posting a negative pov (because this is what you did) against something or someone. I even doubt is acceptable to say something AGAINST someone, but for ethical reasons. That's another story, however.

So, consider this is a message for people like me. Your needs are different than mine? Ok, I respect them. Please, respect mine.

That's the point, this is a negative ad. But with all the due respect is strange (and please notice I am NOT saying it smells) from someone who we've never heard anything from, and could be virtually any man or woman in this planet or even an alien (even if we all know that "The truth is out there", consider that it has also been said: "Trust no one" ). Am I paranoid/too stiff? No, since you did the same doubting that some pictures a site posted were actually shot with a N8 (see below).

Of course I am not saying you are a fake or something similar, just that your experience could be in contrast with other users' ones, and that after all, the N8 could be not so bad at night not to recommend it with a peremptory tone, and all just on the basis of a single feature or lack of it .

Ciao!

--
Viva la evolución!

 

[CFynn]

Would you mind answering these simple questions first?

If it doesn´t have a tripod mount nor lower shutter speeds:

=> Why does it have a self exposure timer at first place?

=> Why Nokia has offered it bundled with a tripod (suction vent mount) here in Brazil?

OK - I didn't know any kind of tripod adaptor was available - But still, if you're going to carry any kind of tripod, why not carry a dedicated camera?

IMO 1/15s is as slow as you'd ever want to attempt for a hand held shot. I don't think I could hold something as small and light as a camera phone at less than 1/60.

I don't have - and have never even seen - the N8. I do have the N900 which is a fantastic device - though I don't really use the camera on it.

• C

• C

 

[Anfy]

=> Why Nokia has offered it bundled with a tripod (suction vent mount) here in Brazil?

OK - I didn't know any kind of tripod adaptor was available

But is not the vent mount dedicated to use it as a Navi system (- for Earth, not Pandora)?

Ciao!

--
Viva la evolución!

 

[RedFox88]

Would you mind answering these simple questions first?

If it doesn´t have a tripod mount nor lower shutter speeds:

=> Why does it have a self exposure timer at first place?

Easy, to take self portraits without having to hit buttons that may shake the phone and cause the user a more difficult time holding the phone because fingers have to be able to press a button and hold it will for composition!

 

[Xpress_Shutter]

What´s definitely not useful is a message like yours 'a strange first post indeed'.

I was quite used in the good old days to introduce myself in a forum - not a general rule, just netiquette - especially before posting a negative pov (because this is what you did) against something or someone. I even doubt is acceptable to say something AGAINST someone, but for ethical reasons. That's another story, however.

So, consider this is a message for people like me. Your needs are different than mine? Ok, I respect them. Please, respect mine.

That's the point, this is a negative ad. But with all the due respect is strange (and please notice I am NOT saying it smells) from someone who we've never heard anything from, and could be virtually any man or woman in this planet or even an alien (even if we all know that "The truth is out there", consider that it has also been said: "Trust no one" ). Am I paranoid/too stiff? No, since you did the same doubting that some pictures a site posted were actually shot with a N8 (see below).

Of course I am not saying you are a fake or something similar, just that your experience could be in contrast with other users' ones, and that after all, the N8 could be not so bad at night not to recommend it with a peremptory tone, and all just on the basis of a single feature or lack of it .

Ciao!

--
Viva la evolución!

Caro Anfy:

Yes, I could be any person on earth. You´re right. But what does that have to do with my criticism? What does that have to do with my complaints, with my rights as a free person of expressing what I feel about goods that I´ve paid for?

It´s also not a 'negative ad' as you suppose. It´s merely criticism. If you see it as a kind of advertising, you should at least state it as your personal thought, not like an statement. Please, I am not saying it smells, too.

Nevertheless, why Damian Dinning can come here and to wherever he pleases (like he did @ flickr.com) and make pretty big publicizing of his devices and I cannot do the same to express some simple facts? I am not being biased or something like that.

I am talking about facts and figures, and those are independent from my person. Those are inherent to the device itself.

If you wanna talk about my supposed lack of 'kindness' for not introducing myself, that´s a completely different story.

Even so, what difference does that make? Can you assure that every single person here doesn´t pretend to be somebody else? Why would I expose myself as an individual if what is the most important thing about this thread is the idea behind it, and not the person behind it?

The sources I´ve provided for N8´s shots do not come from me. They are independent sources to which I am not related in any extent. I´ve even provided one of Damian´s own shots.

I assure you that you would not write the same things regarding this subject if my post was to praise some of N8´s prowess as a cameraphone.

 

[Xpress_Shutter]

I am not saying I will carry a tripod all the time.

I only said it´s available officially.

There´s still a question that you´ve left unanswered. I will carry this discussion with you when you get that one answered as well.