I'm so dumb... I just learned that shutter speed doesn't impact flash

[39matt]

Dont forget however that the slower the shutter speed the greater the impact of blur.

Go to slow and you loose the benefit of the flash stopping motion but it is very useful and until a few months ago i had not fully appreciated how it worked. Now i do my photos using flash have improved quite significantly.

A good book to read is Joe Macnallys "The hotshoe Diaries"

 

[Dan Desjardins]

It's a dumb man that doesn't learn something new every day!

I've been taking pictures for over 40 years now. I grew up in a darkroom. I'm still an idiot compared to many of the people on this forum (some are so kind to point that out from time to time...)

 

[gmosc]

markmark is only trying to be helpful and stress his point by using all caps. I agree with his message, BUT.. The OP might as well keep the light meter. It can be useful for some things, and he should learn how much he might or might NOT use it. Then he can post here later to tell his story. The learning will have cost the price of the light meter, but that's OK. I wouldn't mind having one, myself but I sort of learned through others telling me it wasn't necessary.

I saved money, but if money wasn't a problem it wouldn't be too bad to have a light meter to learn more by using it hands on.

All learning costs SOMETHING. In the OP's case, he might think that it is a worthwhile price to pay to know more about it. It might wind up on the shelf more than he anticipated, but don't we all have a lens or two (or 3 or 4) that is just sitting there waiting to be used?

Guy Moscoso

take a photo with no flash (person in front of window for example)

the background is nice but the person is dark..

now add light..

how much?????

look at the lcd on the camera keep adding more ....until it looks right..

or measure the flash output, measure the ambient, calculate the difference,keeping in mind the ratio yo have in mind or

JUST LOOK AT THE LCD UNTIL IT LOOKS GOOD> > > LOOKING GOOD IS THE ULTIMATE GOAL...

 

[mosman]

Remind me to not have you assist me.

mosman

 

[stanginit]

I shoot fitness routines in poorly lit gyms. I use a dynalite set to light up my subject. My biggest challenges were when the client wanted the entire gym lit in the shot. I could shoot with available light and adjust the Kelvin temp accordingly. However, most gyms have poor overhead lighting. This eliminates definition in the subject. Therefore i light the subject at 45 degree angles or side lighting depending on the routine.

In order to bring in the background, I will open up the shutter.Many times it is not enough so I then raise the iso. I have been successful with 800 and as high as 1250 and a shutter speed of 80 on my D300. On occasion I may throw a bare light out into the background. As for metering , my seckonic meter is usually about a stop and a half off. It says it is for digital but I beg to differ. I also tether with my macbook which thru experience is very close to my on camera LCD.

Lighting comes with experience. The more you use your equipment, the closer you are on initial settings. The time it takes to tweak your shot is cut down considerably.

Use your light meter and learn it. With time you will be able to setup without it.

 

[KSV]

Your D700 has incredibly sophisticated light metter - make a shout without flash in "A" mode to figure out what shutter speed required for ambient light (in fact you do not need even make a shoot - just point camera on subject and half-press shutter button, be sure that flash is closed or off) decide what "mixture" of light do you like, go to "M", adjust shutter speed accordingly, switch on (or pop-up) flash and enjoy shooting.
Cheers

 

[Luke Kaven]

You can simplify your task a little bit.

You want to shot (for most purposes) with your aperture between f/5.6 and f/11. Set your lens to f/8 to start, and try a shutter speed of 1/160. Take a photo of the scene without flash. Note how much ambient light is in the picture. Adjust your shutter speed accordingly.

Now go to your flash units, and adjust the power levels until you get a well exposed image. To judge exposure, set your picture control to neutral and your white balance to daylight. This gives you a pretty good picture of what numbers are coming off the sensor. Read the histogram and check for blown highlights. Try to get as much exposure as you can without blowing any highlights in any of the positions you will be shooting in.

It won't hurt you to learn how to use an incident flash meter, but this is a more useful tool when one wants to shoot film and can't review test shots. Your camera gives you what you need at this point.

 

[Luke Kaven]

Reason being?

 

[mosman]

Just exactly where would you like to start? The list is quite long.

 

[Luke Kaven]

If you've got expert knowledge or criticism to share with the readers, why not pass it along? It'd be more instructive/constructive.

Just exactly where would you like to start? The list is quite long.

 

[mosman]

at what the person wrote, and think about it.

mosman

 

[Muntz]

Dont forget however that the slower the shutter speed the greater the impact of blur.

That's IF flash doesn't supply most of the light, or if you're trying to catch a low lit background. If it does provide most of the light, then shutter speed won't matter much.

Go to slow and you loose the benefit of the flash stopping motion but it is very useful and until a few months ago i had not fully appreciated how it worked. Now i do my photos using flash have improved quite significantly.

A good book to read is Joe Macnallys "The hotshoe Diaries"

Interesting. Thanks for the tip.

--

There are two kinds of people in the world. Those that believe there are two kinds of people and those that don't.

 

[Luke Kaven]

at what the person wrote, and think about it.

If the OP is using monoblock strobes for a 1-3 light setup, it is possible to set up lighting using a model and the in-camera histogram, so long as one is using UniWB. The advice didn't sound ROTF ridiculous in an obvious way.

If he's doing more complicated setups, then learning how to use an incident meter that can measure flash power is useful.

If he's using speedlights and iTTL, it's another story altogether.

Either way, it wasn't clear what your objection was. What are you saying he should do?

 

[mosman]

If the OP is using monoblock strobes for a 1-3 light setup, it is possible to set up lighting using a model and the in-camera histogram, so long as one is using UniWB. The advice didn't sound ROTF ridiculous in an obvious way.

If, a big difference to the OP's blanket statement to the effect of "dump the hand held meter, use the histogram and shotgun the heck out of it until you get something that you think might be correct on your preview screen". The point about UniWB is a good one. Ignoring manufacturing tolerances, two indentical setups - camera/lens/flash - but different curves loaded. Which one is correct?

How about when you are working a room, shooting 'formals' during an event or even producing a collection of individual shots for company personnel or school students with a temporary studio. There are dark/tanned/yellow/pale skinned people wearing a range of colors in a variety of shades and in all different sizes. What are you going to do, meter it properly and then get people through in an orderly and consistent fashion or just gun and hope while buring their retinas out? Assuming of course you are concerned about the final product and actually want some detail in the photo.

So yes to me it did sound ridiculous. An understanding of the difference between incident and reflective light is important. Not too long ago the option of spray shooting was not available, what would have happened then (and yes I'm ignoring the option of the Polariod)?

If he's doing more complicated setups, then learning how to use an incident meter that can measure flash power is useful.

Absolutely, but there's that word if again. Imagine you have the shoot setup, model ready, client watching and there you are chimping away. Very impressive.

If he's using speedlights and iTTL, it's another story altogether.

Yup, and add the different options for reflective metering and you open up a whole new range of possibilities. Which one are you going to pick?

 

[Luke Kaven]

If the OP is using monoblock strobes for a 1-3 light setup, it is possible to set up lighting using a model and the in-camera histogram, so long as one is using UniWB. The advice didn't sound ROTF ridiculous in an obvious way.

If, a big difference to the OP's blanket statement to the effect of "dump the hand held meter, use the histogram and shotgun the heck out of it until you get something that you think might be correct on your preview screen". The point about UniWB is a good one. Ignoring manufacturing tolerances, two indentical setups - camera/lens/flash - but different curves loaded. Which one is correct?

If you're using ETTR, then the most linear tone curve is the right one. The "neutral" picture control will do in a pinch.

How about when you are working a room, shooting 'formals' during an event or even producing a collection of individual shots for company personnel or school students with a temporary studio. There are dark/tanned/yellow/pale skinned people wearing a range of colors in a variety of shades and in all different sizes. What are you going to do, meter it properly and then get people through in an orderly and consistent fashion or just gun and hope while buring their retinas out? Assuming of course you are concerned about the final product and actually want some detail in the photo.

I didn't see the OP as ready to do this kind of work just yet, given what he knows so far about lighting.

So yes to me it did sound ridiculous. An understanding of the difference between incident and reflective light is important. Not too long ago the option of spray shooting was not available, what would have happened then (and yes I'm ignoring the option of the Polariod)?

Your suggestions are all sound (and hopefully instructive for the OP and others), though this kind of wisdom is more orthodox for people who shoot film, slides, or people who have to shoot and deliver JPGs out of camera.

If you're going to shoot digital, and use ETTR as a method of RAW shooting, and support it with UniWB to the best approximation, then I think you can do a lot of work without applying the incident metering. On the other end of the scale, if one is doing high pressure work involving a production designer, models, assistants, and an art director from hell, then one had best step up one's game.

Thanks for taking the time to share your experience.

 

[photonerdcom]

on working on this weekend.

Feel free to keep an eye on my website for more pics... I am rebuilding it.
http://www.photo-nerd.net/models

You can also see some of my work here: http://www.modelmayhem.com/portfolio/1290791/viewall

In all of these setups I did the shotgun and fiddle with the off camera flash approach. Thankfully, the models were patient, but it would have been nice to have spent less time fiddling, and more time shooting. In my brief initial tests with the light meeter (last night in my den with my 3 year old toddler bouncing around, but sitting still for .5 seconds at a time), I was able to measure quite accurately the off camera flash with better results than I could have before.

Here is my shooting/post processing workflow plan.

1) Meter/set up the shot/lighting.

2) Shoot model with 2 targets. One that has black, gray, and white and a second target that is used for warming the shots (it looks light blue to the eye). Also, set a custom white balance to the gray for shooting purposes.

3) Open in Aperture (I prefer this to lightroom, and it has a real curves tool - ala photoshop). Use the custom WB tool to set a WB that's pleasing based upon the neutral or warming targets.
4) Adjust curves using the black, white, and gray points on the target
5) tweak and fiddle in aperture.

I have tested #3-#5 with quite a bit of success. You need to be very careful with #4 to not over do it though. Even if you do, you can fade the effect by brushing it away.

I've always believed get it right in the camera...also, I plan on shooting some film too (very limited). UniWB and expose to the right, are not in my opinion getting it right in the camera. Of course, others will disagree, but if I was an expert at this, where would the fun be?

 

[Luke Kaven]

photonerdcom wrote:
[...]

I've always believed get it right in the camera...also, I plan on shooting some film too (very limited). UniWB and expose to the right, are not in my opinion getting it right in the camera. Of course, others will disagree, but if I was an expert at this, where would the fun be?

You might get yourself over to Luminous Landscape and start reading the medium format forum, where people like James Russell and Frank Doorhof hang out. You would progress far and quickly if you were to take one of Doorhof's model/lighting workshops. Look in the ongoing "professional works" thread.

I looked at your portfolio and see what you want to do...I think you shouldn't stop and that you have talent, but I also see that to get where you want to go, you need to be learning from the people who can get you there.

You idea of getting it "right" in the camera depends on a tricky interpretation of the word "right". The thing that is either right or not in this case is the final product on the screen or in print. What is "right" in the camera is the optimal thing that gets you there with the cleanest best picture you can produce. The fashion industry is very retouch-intensive. And that requires ETTR. You can't afford to throw away one or two bits so that your out of camera JPGs look good with a stock tone curve.

I'm not telling you not to get a meter either. In the end, understanding your own lighting design is the thing that enables you to understand what exposure is appropriate for the scene. Metering can be just as much a crutch as a tool, and what the meter is telling you has to be interpreted in the context of the lighting design. Practically speaking, it doesn't save you that much time.

Of course when you are shooting film, slides, or working as a photojournalist who has to deliver timely JPGs right out of the camera, the flash meter is indispensible.

Camera makers have done their level best to carry over film thinking about exposure to the digital camera. That's been a disservice.

 

[photonerdcom]

this weekend.

• N

 

[Zorpie]

Hi,

I agree totally with you. I used to own a Sekonic L758DR and hardly ever used it with fill flash readings (I don't have a studio) when I discovered that the secret is to learn to use your DSLR in manual mode where you (not the camera) has total control over the exposure. Too many variables in allowing the camera and the flash - to work it out especially when your subject isn't static and you have to react to changing situations. There's no time for a lightmeter under these situations. Plus the results are rarely consistent when using any auto mode on the camera and TTL on flash all at the same time. I've shot quite a few weddings and never had time to use a lightmeter. I've also discovered that TTL BL is better at mixing ambient and flash - rather that iTTL.

I think a lightmeter probably comes into its own when you are in a studio and have time to play with your lights and ratios.

May I suggest you take a look at Planet Neil's Website - full of extremely useful tips and advice as regards balancing ambient and on/off camera flash. (I bought his book as well !!)

My Sekonic L758DR sold on EBay 8 months ago and I've never missed it since.

Regards,

Zorpie
--
http://www.pbase.com/zorpie

If it seems too good to be true - then it isn't. If you cannot believe your eyes - then don't.

 

[mosman]

Your suggestions are all sound (and hopefully instructive for the OP and others), though this kind of wisdom is more orthodox for people who shoot film, slides, or people who have to shoot and deliver JPGs out of camera.

I shoot pro basketball and need to deliver immediately after the game ends, hence the need to get it right first time. The event and portrait work allows a little more latitude.

Thanks for taking the time to share your experience.

Sorry for being a little pedantic and obtuse.

Enjoyed your concert shots, BTW.

mosman