Sports with 1Ds III, my experience

[Felipe Rodríguez]

Hi!

Recently, I've got rid of my 1D Mark III, which has been substituted by a 1Ds Mark III. I am mainly a stock/travel/architectural photographer, and for such kind of photography I can't think of any better choice than the 1Ds3. However, I also cover quite a few professional soccer games and bullfights, and that was the reason I got the 1D3 before. Frankly, I was never happy with that camera AF performance. I did never consider to switch to Nikon, as many sport shooters did, because of the relatively small importance of sports in my overall imagery, but I was really envious of the perfectly focused shots they were showing to my out of their brand new D3...
I was a bit hesitant to get the 1Ds3 because

a) I already own a 5D2 (same resolution, very close image quality)

b) I really liked the 10 fps of the 1D3 as a great help for getting the "decisive moment" in sports.

But I was getting so many poorly focused pics with the 1D3, that finally I sold it and bought a nicely priced used 1Ds3. The 1D3 had the submirror fixed and all that, but anyway the results were clearly worse than those I used to have with the 1D2 (I'm experienced enough in sports photography to know when the OOF picture is my fault or the camera fault: most times it was the 1D3 fault, no matter which settings I tried), and subsequently the percentage of keepers also was clearly lower.

Since I bought the 1Ds, so far, so good. I've covered just one soccer game with the 1Ds instead of the 1D, but, guys, I can't be happier!! About 85% of the pictures were spot on, focus wise, and the remaining 15% was clearly my fault. Sometimes I missed the 10 fps, because 5 is often rather slow for capturing all the details of fast action. But, heck, what about an OOF "decisive moment"?

I'm posting some samples (this doesnt' mean you cannot take such pictures with a 1D3, it's only that I'm getting many more good ones with the 1Ds):











--
http://www.felipe-rodriguez.com

Bokeh

Dadme un mundo sin contornos,
Un espacio feliz que ignore los perfiles.
Concededme, sí, la dicha redonda
De flotar sin conciencia en el fondo
Desenfocado de mis fotografías.

Give me a world with no edges,
A happy space knowing nothing about outlines.
Grant me, please, the round joy
Of thoughtlessly floating on the blurred
Background of my photographs.

 

[ed rader]

the 1ds is fine for some sports but i much prefer the 1d mark III for action because it's snappier and it gives me a larger target to track. i also much prefer the 1d mark III in low light because it's significantly better @ iso 1600. you must have had a bad unit.

your actions pics look great !

ed rader

--
my galleries:

http://erader.zenfolio.com/

 

[jhal]

Did you sent the 1D MKIII to canon for the AF & sub mirror fix?

john

 

[killingbuddha]

I think that the 1D3 and the 1DsIII both have the exact same AF...you must have had a problem with the 1D3
--
Peter Buehner
http://www.lingeringlight.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/killingbuddha
Maine, USA

 

[Scott Larson]

Since I bought the 1Ds, so far, so good. I've covered just one soccer game with the 1Ds instead of the 1D, but, guys, I can't be happier!! About 85% of the pictures were spot on, focus wise, and the remaining 15% was clearly my fault.

You may have simply had a defective 1D Mark III, defective in a way that even Canon can't figure out.

I had one. When I bought it, the AF missed almost everything. It got the submirror fix. That didn't make a bit of difference. It went to Irvine. They said on the work order that the AF was off "from time to time" and they adjusted it so it worked properly. That also didn't make a bit of difference. I sent it back with example images. The work order said "Customer dissatisfied with submirror fix" (I said nothing about the submirror) and that they could find nothing wrong with it.

Canon offered me an exchange with a much newer 1D Mark III. Like you, I suddenly got about 80% keepers including many shots I never could have gotten with my slow-but-accurate Mark IIn.

 

[HarryLally]

Excellent pictures, Felipe. Ah, seeing those shots of Freddie Kanoute brings back memories of his time playing here in London with Tottenham and West Ham. He was a very frustrating player to watch in those days and the crowds used to get on his back a lot. I see quite a bit if him on TV here these days and he's playing a lot better for Sevilla than he did here. BTW which lens - 300 f2.8L?

Had a look at your galleries and am most impressed with both the quality and the range of your work. Hard to believe you only took up photography 10 years ago.....I'm envious.

Michael

 

[dtuason]

Hi!

¡Hola Felipe!

Recently, I've got rid of my 1D Mark III, which has been substituted by a 1Ds Mark III. I am mainly a stock/travel/architectural photographer, and for such kind of photography I can't think of any better choice than the 1Ds3. However, I also cover quite a few professional soccer games and bullfights, and that was the reason I got the 1D3 before. Frankly, I was never happy with that camera AF performance. I did never consider to switch to Nikon, as many sport shooters did, because of the relatively small importance of sports in my overall imagery, but I was really envious of the perfectly focused shots they were showing to my out of their brand new D3...
I was a bit hesitant to get the 1Ds3 because

a) I already own a 5D2 (same resolution, very close image quality)

b) I really liked the 10 fps of the 1D3 as a great help for getting the "decisive moment" in sports.

But I was getting so many poorly focused pics with the 1D3, that finally I sold it and bought a nicely priced used 1Ds3. The 1D3 had the submirror fixed and all that, but anyway the results were clearly worse than those I used to have with the 1D2 (I'm experienced enough in sports photography to know when the OOF picture is my fault or the camera fault: most times it was the 1D3 fault, no matter which settings I tried), and subsequently the percentage of keepers also was clearly lower.

Since I bought the 1Ds, so far, so good. I've covered just one soccer game with the 1Ds instead of the 1D, but, guys, I can't be happier!! About 85% of the pictures were spot on, focus wise, and the remaining 15% was clearly my fault. Sometimes I missed the 10 fps, because 5 is often rather slow for capturing all the details of fast action. But, heck, what about an OOF "decisive moment"?

I had a similar experience with sports with the 1Ds3...well I am talking about the one time I used it for sports...the AF was spot on...my rejects were tack sharp...my OOF shots were my fault...sometimes the player ducked and I didn't expect it...so the shot was OOF....my fault.

It was not like using a xxD camera. I used the 50D for the same event. In a series of let's say 5 or 6 shots with the 50D, at least 2 of them were OOF. If I was lucky only one of them was OOF.

The same goes for airshows...most of the 1Ds3 shots were spot on...it was a hit or miss with a xxD body...so what I did with the 50D was I made sure I had a nice sample of shots...so I can feel "safe" one or two of them will be tack sharp.

I am really impressed with the AF of a 1D series camera. Too bad you had a bad copy of the 1D3. I am really tempted to get a 1D4...but I felt discouraged after I read Rob Galbraith's 1D4 review. I know in his page there was an ad for Nikon...even then I truly respect Rob Galbraith's input. He knew what he was doing when he tested the 1D4. I see no sense in bad mouthing Rob.

BTW...very nice samples Felipe!

¡Salud!

Danny Tuason

I'm posting some samples (this doesnt' mean you cannot take such pictures with a 1D3, it's only that I'm getting many more good ones with the 1Ds):











--
http://www.felipe-rodriguez.com

Bokeh

Dadme un mundo sin contornos,
Un espacio feliz que ignore los perfiles.
Concededme, sí, la dicha redonda
De flotar sin conciencia en el fondo
Desenfocado de mis fotografías.

Give me a world with no edges,
A happy space knowing nothing about outlines.
Grant me, please, the round joy
Of thoughtlessly floating on the blurred
Background of my photographs.

--



http://www.pbase.com/dtuason

The important thing is not to stop questioning.

~ Albert Einstein

It is well that the people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.

~ Henry Ford

 

[KW Phua]

I think the FPS play the part. For 10 fps, the time is too short for getting accurate movement data to predict the next position. e.g. if you plot a graph with AF position and time scale. point to point are too close, so prediction may be more difficult. For 5 fps 1DsIII fps are slower, so may be 1DsIII better then D3 and 1D3 in accuracy.
--
KW Phua

 

[themanwithnoname]

Yes they have the same AF system, so your old unit was defective somehow.
I completely understand though.

My original 5D was the same way. I even sent to Canon and improved none; many shots were OOF when there was no reason for it.

I upgraded to a 1D II N and was blown away, and then I was talked into trying a 1D III and have been hooked ever since.

I do miss FF for enlargements, but the AF is wow near perfect all the time and the photos POP - look amazing from my 1D III.

Someday they will have another FF that makes sense for me to buy as a 2nd camera. I can’t see myself giving up the 10FPS 1D III for a long time unless some crazy price drops happen somewhere.

I think that the 1D3 and the 1DsIII both have the exact same AF...you must have had a problem with the 1D3
--
Peter Buehner

 

[themanwithnoname]

There is some truth to this, canon documents this fact actually that the 1D III when doing 10FPS can have unpredictable results with AF enabled, and they upgraded and rebuilt the AF system to try and keep up with 10FPS, but nothing man made is perfect. Predicting is hard to do, even for cameras. lol

I also will add, I turned off the "wait for AF" and so if I press the button all down the shutter will go off faster, even if the camera thinks it is OOF.

Sometimes the focus was close enough and I need the photo fast and it works well, but my keep rate is lower. There are many possible settings to help get what you want, but again, predicting is hard.

I think the FPS play the part. For 10 fps, the time is too short for getting accurate movement data to predict the next position. e.g. if you plot a graph with AF position and time scale. point to point are too close, so prediction may be more difficult. For 5 fps 1DsIII fps are slower, so may be 1DsIII better then D3 and 1D3 in accuracy.
--
KW Phua

 

[Felipe Rodríguez]

Thanks for your input!

Yes, the 1D3 is great... as far as it is capable to focus! I think my unit was among the really bad ones regarding AF issues.

Regards!
--
http://www.felipe-rodriguez.com

Bokeh

Dadme un mundo sin contornos,
Un espacio feliz que ignore los perfiles.
Concededme, sí, la dicha redonda
De flotar sin conciencia en el fondo
Desenfocado de mis fotografías.

Give me a world with no edges,
A happy space knowing nothing about outlines.
Grant me, please, the round joy
Of thoughtlessly floating on the blurred
Background of my photographs.

 

[Felipe Rodríguez]

Yes, of course, I did it. But it never worked properly....

Did you sent the 1D MKIII to canon for the AF & sub mirror fix?

john

--
http://www.felipe-rodriguez.com

Bokeh

Dadme un mundo sin contornos,
Un espacio feliz que ignore los perfiles.
Concededme, sí, la dicha redonda
De flotar sin conciencia en el fondo
Desenfocado de mis fotografías.

Give me a world with no edges,
A happy space knowing nothing about outlines.
Grant me, please, the round joy
Of thoughtlessly floating on the blurred
Background of my photographs.

 

[Felipe Rodríguez]

That was what I thought, too. However, my 1D3 AF was really faulty. Some 1D3 didn't improve after the sub mirror fix, and mine was among them, I am afraid.

And the results from the 1Ds are so good that they don't seem the same AF system at all!!

I think that the 1D3 and the 1DsIII both have the exact same AF...you must have had a problem with the 1D3
--
Peter Buehner
http://www.lingeringlight.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/killingbuddha
Maine, USA

--
http://www.felipe-rodriguez.com

Bokeh

Dadme un mundo sin contornos,
Un espacio feliz que ignore los perfiles.
Concededme, sí, la dicha redonda
De flotar sin conciencia en el fondo
Desenfocado de mis fotografías.

Give me a world with no edges,
A happy space knowing nothing about outlines.
Grant me, please, the round joy
Of thoughtlessly floating on the blurred
Background of my photographs.

 

[Felipe Rodríguez]

I understand you. But, for my stock imagery, 21 mp vs 10 mp are a good trade off for halving the fps rate.

My original 5D was the same way. I even sent to Canon and improved none; many shots were OOF when there was no reason for it.

I upgraded to a 1D II N and was blown away, and then I was talked into trying a 1D III and have been hooked ever since.

I do miss FF for enlargements, but the AF is wow near perfect all the time and the photos POP - look amazing from my 1D III.

Someday they will have another FF that makes sense for me to buy as a 2nd camera. I can’t see myself giving up the 10FPS 1D III for a long time unless some crazy price drops happen somewhere.

I think that the 1D3 and the 1DsIII both have the exact same AF...you must have had a problem with the 1D3
--
Peter Buehner

--
http://www.felipe-rodriguez.com

Bokeh

Dadme un mundo sin contornos,
Un espacio feliz que ignore los perfiles.
Concededme, sí, la dicha redonda
De flotar sin conciencia en el fondo
Desenfocado de mis fotografías.

Give me a world with no edges,
A happy space knowing nothing about outlines.
Grant me, please, the round joy
Of thoughtlessly floating on the blurred
Background of my photographs.

 

[Felipe Rodríguez]

Hmm... Perhaps I should have tried that, dealing with Canon until they would admit the camera was defective. But, well, I was lucky enough to resell the 1D3 to its previous owner, who also sold me the 1Ds...

Since I bought the 1Ds, so far, so good. I've covered just one soccer game with the 1Ds instead of the 1D, but, guys, I can't be happier!! About 85% of the pictures were spot on, focus wise, and the remaining 15% was clearly my fault.

You may have simply had a defective 1D Mark III, defective in a way that even Canon can't figure out.

I had one. When I bought it, the AF missed almost everything. It got the submirror fix. That didn't make a bit of difference. It went to Irvine. They said on the work order that the AF was off "from time to time" and they adjusted it so it worked properly. That also didn't make a bit of difference. I sent it back with example images. The work order said "Customer dissatisfied with submirror fix" (I said nothing about the submirror) and that they could find nothing wrong with it.

Canon offered me an exchange with a much newer 1D Mark III. Like you, I suddenly got about 80% keepers including many shots I never could have gotten with my slow-but-accurate Mark IIn.

--
http://www.felipe-rodriguez.com

Bokeh

Dadme un mundo sin contornos,
Un espacio feliz que ignore los perfiles.
Concededme, sí, la dicha redonda
De flotar sin conciencia en el fondo
Desenfocado de mis fotografías.

Give me a world with no edges,
A happy space knowing nothing about outlines.
Grant me, please, the round joy
Of thoughtlessly floating on the blurred
Background of my photographs.

 

[Felipe Rodríguez]

Hi Michael

Many thanks for your kindness!

Yes, I'm aware that Freddie was only a so-so player while in England. However, he has become a real crack striker in Seville. I'm myself a fan of Sevilla FC, and Freddie is my little daughter's hero, so taking pictures of him is a real pleasure!

You nailed the lens. I do love the 300 2.8. I'm using now a stabilized one, but I also owned and loved one without IS. An additional advantage of using FF instead of APS-H is somehow better bokeh and subject isolation because of the shallower depth of field...

Excellent pictures, Felipe. Ah, seeing those shots of Freddie Kanoute brings back memories of his time playing here in London with Tottenham and West Ham. He was a very frustrating player to watch in those days and the crowds used to get on his back a lot. I see quite a bit if him on TV here these days and he's playing a lot better for Sevilla than he did here. BTW which lens - 300 f2.8L?

Had a look at your galleries and am most impressed with both the quality and the range of your work. Hard to believe you only took up photography 10 years ago.....I'm envious.

Michael

--
http://www.felipe-rodriguez.com

Bokeh

Dadme un mundo sin contornos,
Un espacio feliz que ignore los perfiles.
Concededme, sí, la dicha redonda
De flotar sin conciencia en el fondo
Desenfocado de mis fotografías.

Give me a world with no edges,
A happy space knowing nothing about outlines.
Grant me, please, the round joy
Of thoughtlessly floating on the blurred
Background of my photographs.

 

[Felipe Rodríguez]

Hi Danny

Glad to meet you again!

It seems that our experience with the 1Ds AF is shared by many people I've talking to.

I would also like to get the 1D4, but, for now, I'm well served with the 1Ds3 and the 5D2. As soon as they start to sell used 1D4, however, I will try to get one for sure.

Un abrazo, amigo!

Hi!

¡Hola Felipe!

Recently, I've got rid of my 1D Mark III, which has been substituted by a 1Ds Mark III. I am mainly a stock/travel/architectural photographer, and for such kind of photography I can't think of any better choice than the 1Ds3. However, I also cover quite a few professional soccer games and bullfights, and that was the reason I got the 1D3 before. Frankly, I was never happy with that camera AF performance. I did never consider to switch to Nikon, as many sport shooters did, because of the relatively small importance of sports in my overall imagery, but I was really envious of the perfectly focused shots they were showing to my out of their brand new D3...
I was a bit hesitant to get the 1Ds3 because

a) I already own a 5D2 (same resolution, very close image quality)

b) I really liked the 10 fps of the 1D3 as a great help for getting the "decisive moment" in sports.

But I was getting so many poorly focused pics with the 1D3, that finally I sold it and bought a nicely priced used 1Ds3. The 1D3 had the submirror fixed and all that, but anyway the results were clearly worse than those I used to have with the 1D2 (I'm experienced enough in sports photography to know when the OOF picture is my fault or the camera fault: most times it was the 1D3 fault, no matter which settings I tried), and subsequently the percentage of keepers also was clearly lower.

Since I bought the 1Ds, so far, so good. I've covered just one soccer game with the 1Ds instead of the 1D, but, guys, I can't be happier!! About 85% of the pictures were spot on, focus wise, and the remaining 15% was clearly my fault. Sometimes I missed the 10 fps, because 5 is often rather slow for capturing all the details of fast action. But, heck, what about an OOF "decisive moment"?

I had a similar experience with sports with the 1Ds3...well I am talking about the one time I used it for sports...the AF was spot on...my rejects were tack sharp...my OOF shots were my fault...sometimes the player ducked and I didn't expect it...so the shot was OOF....my fault.

It was not like using a xxD camera. I used the 50D for the same event. In a series of let's say 5 or 6 shots with the 50D, at least 2 of them were OOF. If I was lucky only one of them was OOF.

The same goes for airshows...most of the 1Ds3 shots were spot on...it was a hit or miss with a xxD body...so what I did with the 50D was I made sure I had a nice sample of shots...so I can feel "safe" one or two of them will be tack sharp.

I am really impressed with the AF of a 1D series camera. Too bad you had a bad copy of the 1D3. I am really tempted to get a 1D4...but I felt discouraged after I read Rob Galbraith's 1D4 review. I know in his page there was an ad for Nikon...even then I truly respect Rob Galbraith's input. He knew what he was doing when he tested the 1D4. I see no sense in bad mouthing Rob.

BTW...very nice samples Felipe!

¡Salud!

Danny Tuason

I'm posting some samples (this doesnt' mean you cannot take such pictures with a 1D3, it's only that I'm getting many more good ones with the 1Ds):











--
http://www.felipe-rodriguez.com

Bokeh

Dadme un mundo sin contornos,
Un espacio feliz que ignore los perfiles.
Concededme, sí, la dicha redonda
De flotar sin conciencia en el fondo
Desenfocado de mis fotografías.

Give me a world with no edges,
A happy space knowing nothing about outlines.
Grant me, please, the round joy
Of thoughtlessly floating on the blurred
Background of my photographs.

--



http://www.pbase.com/dtuason

The important thing is not to stop questioning.

~ Albert Einstein

It is well that the people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.

~ Henry Ford

--
http://www.felipe-rodriguez.com

Bokeh

Dadme un mundo sin contornos,
Un espacio feliz que ignore los perfiles.
Concededme, sí, la dicha redonda
De flotar sin conciencia en el fondo
Desenfocado de mis fotografías.

Give me a world with no edges,
A happy space knowing nothing about outlines.
Grant me, please, the round joy
Of thoughtlessly floating on the blurred
Background of my photographs.

 

[Felipe Rodríguez]

Yes, I've considered that explanation as well. However, I'm not a tech guy, so I can't really say...

I think the FPS play the part. For 10 fps, the time is too short for getting accurate movement data to predict the next position. e.g. if you plot a graph with AF position and time scale. point to point are too close, so prediction may be more difficult. For 5 fps 1DsIII fps are slower, so may be 1DsIII better then D3 and 1D3 in accuracy.
--
KW Phua

--
http://www.felipe-rodriguez.com

Bokeh

Dadme un mundo sin contornos,
Un espacio feliz que ignore los perfiles.
Concededme, sí, la dicha redonda
De flotar sin conciencia en el fondo
Desenfocado de mis fotografías.

Give me a world with no edges,
A happy space knowing nothing about outlines.
Grant me, please, the round joy
Of thoughtlessly floating on the blurred
Background of my photographs.

 

[Felipe Rodríguez]

Hi!

I even attended a special workshop by Canon Spain about the 1D3 and all of its many setting options, and I tried most if not all of them with the same lack of success...

There is some truth to this, canon documents this fact actually that the 1D III when doing 10FPS can have unpredictable results with AF enabled, and they upgraded and rebuilt the AF system to try and keep up with 10FPS, but nothing man made is perfect. Predicting is hard to do, even for cameras. lol

I also will add, I turned off the "wait for AF" and so if I press the button all down the shutter will go off faster, even if the camera thinks it is OOF.

Sometimes the focus was close enough and I need the photo fast and it works well, but my keep rate is lower. There are many possible settings to help get what you want, but again, predicting is hard.

I think the FPS play the part. For 10 fps, the time is too short for getting accurate movement data to predict the next position. e.g. if you plot a graph with AF position and time scale. point to point are too close, so prediction may be more difficult. For 5 fps 1DsIII fps are slower, so may be 1DsIII better then D3 and 1D3 in accuracy.
--
KW Phua

--
http://www.felipe-rodriguez.com

Bokeh

Dadme un mundo sin contornos,
Un espacio feliz que ignore los perfiles.
Concededme, sí, la dicha redonda
De flotar sin conciencia en el fondo
Desenfocado de mis fotografías.

Give me a world with no edges,
A happy space knowing nothing about outlines.
Grant me, please, the round joy
Of thoughtlessly floating on the blurred
Background of my photographs.

 

[Scott Larson]

Hmm... Perhaps I should have tried that, dealing with Canon until they would admit the camera was defective. But, well, I was lucky enough to resell the 1D3 to its previous owner, who also sold me the 1Ds...

I took it back to the store where I bought it months earlier and said I wanted to sell it and buy a D3, a Nikkor 70-200mm f2.8 and a prime lens or two. I handed the salesman the stack of work orders "proving" the camera worked perfectly as far as Canon was concerned even though for me it rarely focused on anything and was worthless.

The salesman should have been jumping with joy at an easy $7,000+ sale but apparently their agreement with Canon requires them to call their sales representative when things like this happen. Ten minutes later Canon called back and authorized them to give me a replacement. I honestly did not expect to be walking out with another Canon camera.

I also didn't expect the replacement to work any better but I very quickly saw that this Mark III was a different camera. It focuses quickly and solidly. It still has some quirks with tracking but it does track unlike the previous camera which ignored anything that moved. For the most part I'm able to get more shots in focus than I do with my Mark IIn and some of those have been wonderful shots.

Since I'm not a CPS member, "pulling the Nikon card" was the only way I could get a working Mark III from Canon. It's made me wonder if that's the only thing they care about these days.