Awesome... first Thom Hogan, now Ken Rockwell!

[illy]

I think 1/4000 is mainly to be able to shoot at f/2.8 on a sunny day,
and not necessarily fast moving objects. For compacts it makes very
little difference.

well, thats what you think
but clearly 1/4000th sec shutter offers more utility than
.......what you think

Very well could be.

well, im saying....it is

But because the camera is able to shoot at 1/4000
does not immediately imply it is built for shooting sports. It needs
to focus first, you know .. .

as it happens, you can pre focus or MF
a lot of aircraft photography is at infinity
a lot of race car photography is prefocused

you dont need to be a genius to figure that out
but maybe it helps

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all the aircraft photographer i know use a system whose AF can track a fast moving aircraft very close...as most decent Dslr's can do, whilst focusing at infinity is a certain method, i know no one who does that.
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[Joesiv]

though, your samples from your PnS's a good, but fourthirds has much shallower depth of field, so unless you're going to stop down, the focusing is more critical with the EP-1 than your smaller sensor cameras.

Personally, I'm not sure how good/bad it'll do, and of course pre-focusing is often feasible, but I figured I'd throw that caveat in there.
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[Michael Kaufman]

Try it first before you start knocking it there bud. I haven't
clipped a Canikon, Sony or Pentax at the heel, since I am not sure
how I may like them if I tried them, it's called reserving judgment
(positive or negative) until the jury is actually in, try it sometime.

I know its ever so popular to trash Ken, but what he actually said was:

"If it responds instantly to inputs and there is no delay on the LCD, we have a real winner. If there are slight delays in response to navigating menus, or if menus are needed for shot-to-shot controls like WB and lighten/darken, or if the image on the LCD is delayed a fraction of a second as it is on point-and-shoots, it will make the PEN E-P1 as useless for sports, action and family photos as any other point and shoot."

How is that different from what you said? Hes just articulating the two possibilities, not coming to a conclusion. Even his next paragraph

"In other words, we still don't know if it's fast enough for family photos. Probably not, meaning a real DSLR like the D40 is still needed for photos of things that move, but for use in low light for subjects that hold still, the Olympus E-P1 could be a real step forward from traditional point-and-shoots."

Is him telling his guess (which I think will turn out to be wrong), not coming to a conclusion.

Michael

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[R Stacy]

Good grief, sounds almost like a homeless person. Oh well.......... since I'm being critical this fine morning, where does Olympus marketing say the E-P1 is a step up from a camera phone (as Mr. Rockwell suggests)...?

Someone please tell me OLy doesn't say that.

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[radix1]

you do that with all the excellent zuikos, leicas, zeisses, etc..
prefocus or zone focusing.

and lots of DOF is in our side this time

cheers
radix

Daniel.

Funny how a small camera like the E-P1 probably won't be able to
shoot anything that may move, yet has a shutter speed of
what.........1/4000..?!? Try and get your little Canon SD880 to
shoot at that speed!

I think 1/4000 is mainly to be able to shoot at f/2.8 on a sunny day,
and not necessarily fast moving objects. For compacts it makes very
little difference.

And f2.8 @ 1/4000th will not freeze fast moving action ... ;-));
and could not be used for that purpose ... ????? Lol!

Sorry, but can you run that past me again, please mate? The logic
sort of escaped me ...

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[ChowMonkey]

I like reviews based on lab reports or based on the experience of very good photographers. Ken Rockwell is not on my list of very good photographers so how can I take him serious...

 

[BamaPanda]

I read what Rockwell wrote, and most of it is so negative that it makes little sense to me why he even bought the DigiPen.

First thought. Maybe he will get an awakening to how good Oly is after he uses the camera for a spell.

Second thought is ...I sure hope this new Oly can live up to all the hype. It would be a shame to come to market with a camera so well received at the outset to have it flop in the real world.
--
A chicken crossing the road: Poultry in motion.

 

[Pedagydusz]

in this Forum (the other thread started by timsky) were very welcome, certainly by a number of regular posters.

I don't know what were Brian's intentions, nor do I answer on his behalf, but your comments on that thread made quite some excellent reading.
Thank you for your time!
--
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http://ferrer.smugmug.com/

 

[Michael Kaufman]

Ken, on the other hand, seems to construct his articles like this:

(insert all -both supported and unsupported- negative points about
the camera being reviewed) followed by "you're better off buying the
D40."

Actually, what he said was:

"In other words, we still don't know if it's fast enough for family photos. Probably not, meaning a real DSLR like the D40 is still needed for photos of things that move, but for use in low light for subjects that hold still, the Olympus E-P1 could be a real step forward from traditional point-and-shoots."

He didn't say you're better off buying a D40. He said that he doesn't think it is going to be fast enough for things that move, and if so, it wouldn't be a good choice for those things.

I happen to think he's wrong and that it will be fast enough for whatever, but he is allowed to have an opinion.

I'm not trying to defend the E-P1 or Olympus here, and I respect both
Nikon and Olympus equally, but I just hate brainless, biased articles.

You don't like the guy, so you misquote him and misrepresent what he said. And you do it in a forum where is only takes a second to look up what he actually said. An excellent example of a brainless, biased article.

May I make a suggestion for all you Ken haters out there. Just ignore the guy. If you don't like him, don't read his stuff.

Michael

--
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[mangochutney]

People don't even bother to read what he writes properly and use selective quotes to change the meaning of what he has written.

Daniel.

Try it first before you start knocking it there bud. I haven't
clipped a Canikon, Sony or Pentax at the heel, since I am not sure
how I may like them if I tried them, it's called reserving judgment
(positive or negative) until the jury is actually in, try it sometime.

I know its ever so popular to trash Ken, but what he actually said was:

"If it responds instantly to inputs and there is no delay on the LCD,
we have a real winner. If there are slight delays in response to
navigating menus, or if menus are needed for shot-to-shot controls
like WB and lighten/darken, or if the image on the LCD is delayed a
fraction of a second as it is on point-and-shoots, it will make the
PEN E-P1 as useless for sports, action and family photos as any other
point and shoot."

How is that different from what you said? Hes just articulating the
two possibilities, not coming to a conclusion. Even his next paragraph

"In other words, we still don't know if it's fast enough for family
photos. Probably not, meaning a real DSLR like the D40 is still
needed for photos of things that move, but for use in low light for
subjects that hold still, the Olympus E-P1 could be a real step
forward from traditional point-and-shoots."

Is him telling his guess (which I think will turn out to be wrong),
not coming to a conclusion.

Michael

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/michaelthek/

 

[carizi]

n/t

 

[Guerito]

Funny how a small camera like the E-P1 probably won't be able to
shoot anything that may move, yet has a shutter speed of
what.........1/4000..?!? Try and get your little Canon SD880 to
shoot at that speed!

Actually, the SD880 is capable of shutter speeds much, much faster than 1/4,000" and flash sync speeds as high as perhaps as 1/64,000"!!! Try that with the E-P1!
he-he ;-)

Don

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[Gregm61]

though, your samples from your PnS's a good, but fourthirds has much
shallower depth of field, so unless you're going to stop down, the
focusing is more critical with the EP-1 than your smaller sensor
cameras.

Personally, I'm not sure how good/bad it'll do, and of course
pre-focusing is often feasible, but I figured I'd throw that caveat
in there.

Pre-focussing was what I did in all of those and no, that's not an option with the 4/3rd's system. If I did that at the track with my E1 and 50-200, most of my pictures would be out of focus.

I was just simply showing the E-P1 should be able to do most any type of action shooting to a point. Whether you can continue following the subject after the first and getting a second, third or fourth shot using the burst option while keeping a moving subject framed accurately will depend on how well the finder is set up to handle burst shooting. To date, no camera with an electronic finder system has been very good at it.

 

[Klarno]

It's just, he's so bipolar, only half of what he says is worth listening to.

first he's like, your camera doesn't matter
then he's like, you should only buy a fullframe DSLR
then he's like, megapixels are evil
then he's like, look at how awesome the d3x is
then he's like, film is the only way to go
then he's like, i love my D40
then he's like, i love putting new film into disposable cameras
then he's like, look how great this leica lens is

then he's like, the E-P1 is a quarter-frame camera for people upgrading from camera phones
then he's like, i'm buying the E-P1

I find, however, when he's talking about a technique, he's completely worth listening to.

--
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[Brian Mosley]

Which would explain his interest in the E-P1. Have you seen the interest graph on the front of dpreview? Olympus have got a mega-hit on their hands.

It's also going to come in for attack from the other brands - which is quite natural while they're getting their act together to compete in this space.

Kind Regards

Brian
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[tralalax]

funny that the next generation E-P1 series will be called

OLY PEN-IS

(with in-body image stabilization of course);-)

 

[Rriley]

18.9% whoa!
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[Brian Mosley]

Hi Antonio,

I don't know what were Brian's intentions, nor do I answer on his
behalf, but your comments on that thread made quite some excellent
reading.

I agree with you, that should have been obvious by my reference to Thom in my OP :

... first we have the (very welcome) distinguished Nikon technical
author/marketing pundit Thom Hogan joining us here in the Oly forum -
while he's waiting for his pre-ordered E-P1 to arrive.

The reason for my interest in Thom and Ken, regardless of their personalities / motivations is that prominent Nikon shooters are buying the E-P1 and talking about it. That will help to bring the camera to the attention of DSLR users who may not have considered an Olympus.

We're already seeing signs of Nikon and Canon shooters who are discovering the wider advantages of Olympus DSLRs too - with ZD lenses.

Another good reason to keep the E-P1 in the most popular 4/3rds forum.

Kind Regards

Brian
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[Rriley]

yes i think that obtaining advice from experienced people in the industry is a good thing. It seems to me that Olympus are looking for market driven guidance at this point, and useful information helps us find out feet in that quest...

likewise Eamon Hickey provides some useful comment
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1022&message=32198087

"The astute Eamon Hickey has an article on the Online Photographer web site with some interesting observations about the look feel and handling of this new (to Olympus) genesis of a camera. Makes a good read..."

http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2009/06/the-olympus-ep1-briefly-held.html

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[LLS1]

funny that the next generation E-P1 series will be called

OLY PEN-IS

(with in-body image stabilization of course);-)

That joke was funny the first 500 times.