BrowserBug
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070715/tc_nm/canon_factory_dc_1 ; ylt=ApCbpanmt6UDadG1IhzJ0oME1vAI
What should we expect? Does anyone know more details?
What should we expect? Does anyone know more details?
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Canon announces it will build CMOS sensors for compact cameras
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blabla0815
Active member
enable dream mode
Compact cameras from Canon with APS-C sized sensors?
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dj_nme
Forum Enthusiast
I personally doubt it.enable dream mode
Compact cameras from Canon with APS-C sized sensors?
disable dream mode
It's more likely that Canon will be breaking their reliance on small sensors being made by Sony.
blabla0815
Active member
I fear you are right. From the reuters article the they sell about 8 times more compact cameras than DSLRs, the compact camera sensor size is about 1/8 of a APS-C sensor (and well even smaller). They say also the capacity would match the prduction of the older fab. So the produced sensor area would match to replace all compact camera sensors with CMOS sensors. But on the other side:
- Canon CMOS white paper says the advantage of CMOS growth with the sensor size.
- Producing their own sensors they could now just build any size of sensors they want. So maybe they come up with something between 1/1.8" and APS-C.
nebularb
Forum Enthusiast
Could look into this way:
1. Sony/Canon have fallen out?
2. Perhaps the need to get larger/better quality sensors into the compact cam side of things is what is driving canon to get in before the competition? i.e. keeping a strangle hold on this large segment of its profit. Well done Canon if they are, because the consumer is the one that will benefit the most.
3. New small sensor technology discoverd by Canon? Sony have not gone very far in the last 4 years (IMO) i.e. can't match the CMOS for lower noise and they have had long enough to catch up.
Just my thoughts. Anyone beg to differ?
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A dpreview browser.
1. Sony/Canon have fallen out?
2. Perhaps the need to get larger/better quality sensors into the compact cam side of things is what is driving canon to get in before the competition? i.e. keeping a strangle hold on this large segment of its profit. Well done Canon if they are, because the consumer is the one that will benefit the most.
3. New small sensor technology discoverd by Canon? Sony have not gone very far in the last 4 years (IMO) i.e. can't match the CMOS for lower noise and they have had long enough to catch up.
Just my thoughts. Anyone beg to differ?
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A dpreview browser.
brent collins
Senior Member
Yes, I'm sure that after the fallout from the defective Sony sensors (a couple of years ago) used in Canon p&s cameras, they decided to look into doing it all in house.
I've been waiting for this and see only good things to come with the news. A good low noise compact is sure to be announced in 2008.
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I've been waiting for this and see only good things to come with the news. A good low noise compact is sure to be announced in 2008.
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sony and canon are competitors so breaking their reliance will be important in order to gain advantage. At the moment there is very little difference between their smaller cameras. The reason why canon decided to do it now than later is because they probably finally perfected cmos sensors for live view, and higher densities, and perhaps maybe easier to create higher iso pictures which are now all the rage. Also canon compete with mainly cameras that use the same sony sensor making it harder to differentiate their product. These are sony, olympus, certain fuji cameras, kodak, casio, nikon, pentax. The only manufacturer making their own sensors are panasonic but they aren't in the same league as sony sensors but they differentiate themselves with superior image stabilisation and lens.
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Alex
People who are bored cause more trouble than busy people so keep busy and keep others busy else you'll be in trouble
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Alex
People who are bored cause more trouble than busy people so keep busy and keep others busy else you'll be in trouble
sherwoodpete
Veteran Member
Phil commented on the news with a hint of the possibility of:
(a) slightly larger sensor in compact cameras
(b) less emphasis on megapixels at the expense of noise and dynamic range.
I realise this is just speculation, but the man does get to speak with a lot of people in the digital photography world. Perhaps there are grounds for these thoughts?
Either way, I don't think Canon would go this way purely on the grounds of cost. They must also be confident that their approach will produce sensors that perform better than competitors' products.
(a) slightly larger sensor in compact cameras
(b) less emphasis on megapixels at the expense of noise and dynamic range.
I realise this is just speculation, but the man does get to speak with a lot of people in the digital photography world. Perhaps there are grounds for these thoughts?
Either way, I don't think Canon would go this way purely on the grounds of cost. They must also be confident that their approach will produce sensors that perform better than competitors' products.
brent collins
Senior Member
Sounds like a good idea.
With the fact that they are making it themselves plus the cost advantage of CMOS over CCD, they can use somewhat larger sensors that should be superior or at least very competitive to Sony's CCD. Add to this the fact that it will give Canon greater independence, that CMOS or a variant is widely regarded as the future for sensor design, and that all of the effort and R&D poured into CMOS development for DSLRs can be shared across the range.
Just my thoughts, hope they are mostly accurate.
With the fact that they are making it themselves plus the cost advantage of CMOS over CCD, they can use somewhat larger sensors that should be superior or at least very competitive to Sony's CCD. Add to this the fact that it will give Canon greater independence, that CMOS or a variant is widely regarded as the future for sensor design, and that all of the effort and R&D poured into CMOS development for DSLRs can be shared across the range.
Just my thoughts, hope they are mostly accurate.
F
Frank C.
Guest
compact cameras with small lens require tiny sensors
so noise levels will remain unaltered unless if like
Phil says megapixel numbers goes down ( but
this is true for ccd sensors as well )
I don't see this as really a big announcement, what
we should read from this is Canon's desire to move
away from Sony ccds.... (?)
so noise levels will remain unaltered unless if like
Phil says megapixel numbers goes down ( but
this is true for ccd sensors as well )
I don't see this as really a big announcement, what
we should read from this is Canon's desire to move
away from Sony ccds.... (?)
S
Simon97
Guest
Keep the dream mode on. Canon already makes their own sensors for their DSLRs. I'll keep on dreaming too...
But will it have movie mode? Raw is probably out of the question.
enable dream mode
Compact cameras from Canon with APS-C sized sensors?
disable dream mode
S
Simon97
Guest
If APS-C sensors can be made for dSLRs that come with a kit lens costing just $500 (US), I think they could easily make a good 2/3" or 1" sensor for a "serious" compact camera with about 8MP.
I agree with Phil. It think Canon will still produce the same small sensors for super zoom cameras and 1/1.8" sensors, but they might, just might, come up with a 2/3" or larger sensor for a new type of G series camera (and hopefully the A series too).
With education of the retailers and consumers, perhaps this goofy megapixel race can be derailed and fine image quality cameras can be made.
The huge success of the G7 shows there is plenty of room for this type of camera.
FWIW
I agree with Phil. It think Canon will still produce the same small sensors for super zoom cameras and 1/1.8" sensors, but they might, just might, come up with a 2/3" or larger sensor for a new type of G series camera (and hopefully the A series too).
With education of the retailers and consumers, perhaps this goofy megapixel race can be derailed and fine image quality cameras can be made.
The huge success of the G7 shows there is plenty of room for this type of camera.
FWIW
Hope so, but I would also like to see quality lenses(faster than F2.8 and wider than 35mm) and RAW.
Not a very good example, since it's the most "consumerish" Canon attempt to make a serious prosumer camera. More megapixels, more zoom, higher ISO values, FD etc. not a very fast lens, no RAW, looks great/"serious" as some users say but doesn't have ergonomics of a real prosumer camera.
A good quality prosumer camera with excellent IQ and less gimmicks would cost more and would not be sold boatloads. I hope Canon would sell these new CMOS sensors to Ricoh, I really like their cameras and principles.
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If a man empties his purse into his head, no one can take it away from him. An investment of knowledge always pays the best interest.
Don't forget, the original film ELPH and Elph Jr. were about the same size as the current digital ELPHs, and they used the "original" APS-H sized sensor - APS film.
All Canon really needs to do to get a large(r) sensor into a small package is resolve the incidence angle issue. If they've done so, even if the CMOS sensor is say, 4/3 size, they'll have the potential for some extremely desirable compact cameras.
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Quote: 'The only thing some people will believe is their own eyes. But in the realm of the quality of a printed image, is there really anything else that can be believed? '
All Canon really needs to do to get a large(r) sensor into a small package is resolve the incidence angle issue. If they've done so, even if the CMOS sensor is say, 4/3 size, they'll have the potential for some extremely desirable compact cameras.
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Quote: 'The only thing some people will believe is their own eyes. But in the realm of the quality of a printed image, is there really anything else that can be believed? '
The Davinator
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This could remove the huge advantage the DP1 has over the competition as well. A series of Canon P&S cameras with an APS sensor in them would be welcome!
KEITH-C
Forum Pro
Canon have lost some compact sales recently to the likes of the Fuiji 30 series over the issue of sensor noise - this is their response . Also breaking their reliance on Sony small sensors will only do them good & the greater competition will stir up Sony to greater efforts.
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Keith-C
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Keith-C
wow, some interesting info-bits from the article:
1) the new canon plant will increase CMOS production capability from 3 million sensors year to 6 million sensors
2) canon is expecting to sell 24 million cameras (including dslr's) this year
3) apparently the rest of the sensors, 18 million, (24 million - 6 million) canon gets from sony!!!
4) canon is expecting to product 3 million dslr's this year
1) the new canon plant will increase CMOS production capability from 3 million sensors year to 6 million sensors
2) canon is expecting to sell 24 million cameras (including dslr's) this year
3) apparently the rest of the sensors, 18 million, (24 million - 6 million) canon gets from sony!!!
4) canon is expecting to product 3 million dslr's this year
Erik37
Senior Member
Why not? They have shown that they pay great attention to the bottom
line, with increasing price pressure any savings help improve the profit.
Equally well for less money would also be reason enough.
They could also gain more design flexibility, e.g. Panasonic have spawed off
lots of different sensor sizes; the LX2, TZ2, TZ3 and FX100 all use different
"non-standard" sensor sizes. Canon's move would give them the same
flexibility.
Just my two oere
Erik from Sweden, main tool: F Z 5
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