for me, k10d = nearperfect - 2.5

[AndrewF]

To me the 500 shots seems low compared to other cameras though,
doesn't it?

I was thinking the same thing. But 250 of those shots included flash IIRC so it'll be good to see how capacity is with no flash being used.

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/andrewfaires/

 

[muxis]

heh 500 is just a conservative estimate. I don't really know how much AA vs. lithium can shoot, but I'm assuming the latter can do at least 20% more?

Oh and another feature that goes overlooked: dedicated AF button (aka, the ability to turn off AF w/ shutter press halfway). My peers - who are just as poor as me who can't afford the Mark II - find this feature a god-send. I don't know if the new C&N equivalent models have this, but back in the days of nikon d100 and canon 300d, I was the only kid on the block with this feature. Very useful when you have a stampede of football players coming at you.

 

[savagemikel]

heh 500 is just a conservative estimate. I don't really know how
much AA vs. lithium can shoot, but I'm assuming the latter can do
at least 20% more?

Oh, I hope that is very conservative.

Most decent alkaline AA reports I've seen are around 200 shots on the k100d, for instance.

While lithium AA claims range from around 700 to 2000! The general average being over a 1000 anyway from my casual observations.

Enough of a difference that I recently bought a small bulk of AA lithiums on e-bay for when I just need more for my k100d.

Oh and another feature that goes overlooked: dedicated AF button
(aka, the ability to turn off AF w/ shutter press halfway). My
peers - who are just as poor as me who can't afford the Mark II -
find this feature a god-send. I don't know if the new C&N
equivalent models have this, but back in the days of nikon d100 and
canon 300d, I was the only kid on the block with this feature.
Very useful when you have a stampede of football players coming at
you.

Don't all the new lenses and pentax systems support this?

If I am reading correctly you just want to be able to manually focus without actually switching modes out of autofocus?

I think there is a slip clutch in the focus for all the DA lenses anyway which allow this. I am not too sure of my my info here though.

• mike

 

[savagemikel]

It would have been cheap for Pentax to make it to take CR-V3's or
AA's, BUT...
Taking LiIon AND CR-V3's AND AA's was too expensive, it needed a
special solution for this and this was developed but trashed
because it costed too much to produce. It would have raisen the
price on the camera and then good bye price-advantage...

LiIon is a must to power the electronics. Supersonic drive,
dust-removal, anti-shake, all the internal processors, the 22 bit
A/D, the PRIME engine and lots of other stuff. 44 AA's or 2 CR-V3's
wasn't enough. It needed 3 x CRV3 = 6 AA's. Pentax felt it was too
unpractical, too expensive for the users having to buy 3 sets of
CR-V3's (or three battery chargers for CR-VR, they only support one
CR-VR each) and 6 AA batteries with 2 chargers (1 x 4 and 1 x 2).
And going for LiIon + all this... too expensive.

So, LiIon it was.
I think most will be happy...

Take care
R

Yes, I think you are correct on these points. Actually, due to the battery grip there are some other possibilities. With the pin out of the grip plug a pack could be easily made which would provide power from any number of things.

THe ability to do this relatively easily depends on how much of the logic is onboard the body though and how much intelligent feedback is actually supplied by the grip. I bet the intelligent circuitry is mostly in the body.

So... maybe just need the power pins and supply juice there and the cam can do the management of power system between the addon pack and the internal body battery.

Then just need a power source and some voltage/amp regulation and bob's your uncle.

• mike

 

[savagemikel]

Good points.

For me, these are all non-issues. I think the size for what we're
getting is reasonable and the battery solution pentax has come up
with is consistant with trying to keep this as small as they could
for what's stuffed in it (6 AA batteries or 3 CRV3 batteries would
take up a lot more room than 1 proprietary Li Ion battery). And
because I don't really use flash all that often, TTL isn't really a
concern - again, just from my perspective.

Yeah, I don't have any TTL right now either. But was eyeing macro as some possible fun when I get more time.

Roland mentioned elsewhere that a ringlight flash might be forthcoming. But, you know that will not be as cheap as some of the old TTL possibilities and budget is an issue for me.

What I was hoping for and didn't get was 5 fps. This isn't a
deal-breaker in the least though. The other thing that would have
been nice is a magnesium alloy body - but that's just cosmetics
AFAIC and would have probably increased the price.

5fps would have been awesome. But ultimately I didn't detract any points for not having it. I would have added points for it though.

What I'm really impressed with is being able to shoot 12
raw/unlimited except by card-size jpg continuous shooting.

YES !! Another big surprise point from the k10d. After filtering all the rumors I didn't think we'd get that much of a buffer increase for the RAW.

After almost a year of abusing my DS2, the K10D has pretty much
everything I was hoping for in an upgrade.
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/andrewfaires/

I was gonna wait for the k10d; but, couldn't resist a good deal I got on the k100d. So... I've got something to play with for a while.
I might even wait for revision 1 to come.
It will all depend on my budget and the sample images.

• mike

 

[muxis]

oh I just mean the 'AF' button on the back of the body, not manual focus. The AF button gives me the ability to focus on the target until I let go of the button. Why not just press the shutter release halfway you ask? Because it tends to focus onto something else right before I press it fully. I use AF.C so it would continuously hunt for something else to focus. If I'm slightly off or if the QB decides to dive to the right and there's four more people 5 and 10 yards behind him, the people behind him (or the bleachers) would be on focus, not the QB.

Well I'm not sure if this explanation helps, or if it even explained my dilemma
But I love the dedicated AF button on the back.

 

[James O'Neill]

It would have been cheap for Pentax to make it to take CR-V3's or
AA's, BUT...
Taking LiIon AND CR-V3's AND AA's was too expensive, it needed a
special solution for this and this was developed but trashed
because it costed too much to produce. It would have raisen the
price on the camera and then good bye price-advantage...

I'm not sure this is the right explanation ... but when you say :

LiIon is a must to power the electronics. Supersonic drive,
dust-removal, anti-shake, all the internal processors, the 22 bit
A/D, the PRIME engine and lots of other stuff. 44 AA's or 2 CR-V3's
wasn't enough. It needed 3 x CRV3 = 6 AA's.

This is the nub of the matter - look at Phil's review the photo of the DC connector shows it is marked 8.4V. (Hence 6xAA or 3xCRV3). More voltage means a faster focus, and is probably needed by the electronics. A 50% bigger battery comparment would not have been a good thing.

Pentax felt it was too
unpractical, too expensive for the users having to buy 3 sets of
CR-V3's (or three battery chargers for CR-VR, they only support one
CR-VR each) and 6 AA batteries with 2 chargers (1 x 4 and 1 x 2).

Forget Rechargable CRV3. That, like NiMH or the new battery is just an option for the regular battery.

Lithium CRV3 (or AA) batteries can stay in your bag as an emergency set when the recharables fail.

Since that failure is usually down to user error you probably won't have your emergency batteries with you, and the ablity to AA batteries is a big win.

I have just got back from a Dive trip where I took my mini external hard disk (which is powered from USB and uses and charges the same battery used in my diving optio), my phone (also charging from USB) and a USB charger for the AA batteries used by my Torch, underwater flash and *ist-D. I took my laptop but I have Swiss Travel Products' "World Travel Adaptor With USB Charger" see http://www.mobilefun.co.uk/product/9025.htm

So I either use the laptop and charge through it or the USB block on the charger, With the K10D I'll need to take an extra battery and it's charger, and the charger's mains lead, but I don't get to leave anything behind and it ties up the power connection.

Pentax didn't change from 5V power to 8V for the good of their health. I'm sure the camera is better for it. But the loss of AA's makes things a lot less convenient, and takes away the get out of jail solution.

 

[vprace]

It's a good looking replacement for a DS not what should have replaced the D! hardly a serious competitor to the D200. was hoping for alot more!

 

[Oleg_V]

And my -1:
Its impossible to fix CCD permanently by turning SR off! It will be
free moving inside your camera even in case SR switch is off.

I am sure this is not a design consideration which slipped by them.
Otherwise any shot taken with SR off would appear off axis toward
the bottom of the frame.
No.... I'm sure this is seen to.

I told about free moving when the power is switched off. When its on the SR just eats your battery even being switched off.

 

[timo]

Very simply, Pentax was losing more camera sales due to its small
size than it was gaining from people who want smaller. There is
very much a perception that a small camera isn't robust or
"professional" enough when compared to a larger camera. It was
easier and more effective to change the size of the camera than the
perception of the average user.

Darren - I have a horrible feeling you are right. But this makes me feel at odds with the world - the compact and light quality of my DS and D is what makes me want to use them. It was the bulk and weight of the D70 which put me off it. The K10D represents a bit of a dilemma for me. I'm not a pro although I have had some stuff published: I'll have to think hard before lugging something that bit heavier around long-term, although in other respects the spec is droolworthy. [sigh] why can't we have everything just right?
--
tim

 

[Robert Barnett]

Having used a Casion T1000 10.1 MP compact camera that is far too small I have decided I don't mind a larger camera. No I don't want a 10 pounder but something that is comfortable in my hands and doesn't cause neck bones to bend or break is fine.

Robert

 

[Dan Darmoros]

That's incorrect. The magnets work without power, power just reverses their polarity, so during a shot a small current is applied to whatever magnets are needed to correct the sensor for hand movement and during all other times no power is necessary. There are over 30 patents on this design, I'm sure power draw is in one of them.

 

[Oleg_V]

That's incorrect. The magnets work without power, power just
reverses their polarity, so during a shot a small current is
applied to whatever magnets are needed to correct the sensor for
hand movement and during all other times no power is necessary.
There are over 30 patents on this design, I'm sure power draw is in
one of them.

That's correct. Here is the patent
http://v3.espacenet.com/origdoc?DB=EPODOC&IDX=US2006067660&F=0&QPN=US2006067660

 

[Darren M]

The AF button on the back is a nice, actually quite professional touch indeed. I don't think Nikon offered it, but I know that Canon offers it as a custom function in their menu (the button isn't labeled as AF,but functions that way). The DS (and DL and K100D too I would guess) could do this via a custom setting, using the OK button.

The problem with the AF button on the *istD is that when the grip is installed, the AF button becomes very hard to reach, at least for my smallish hands, when shooting in portrait orientation. On the DS, I chose not to use this feature, as I found it more valuable to use the OK button to recenter the AF focus point. Part of the reason I didn't take advantage of it on my DS was because I couldn't easily use it on my D and continuity of use made sense to me.

--



http://www.trekearth.com/members/Darren/photos/
http://www.darrenmelrose.com

Have camera, will travel

 

[GordonK]

These are all pretty subjective anyway, but my takes:

The - 2.5 part:

The .5 is size. Unless they have some good reason for the size
bump, I think it not a great decision. I recently purchased a
k100d and really, really, really like its small take almost
anywhere size.

I think it's a fantastic decision. I have long fingers and every time I've picked up a display model of a sub-$1000 DSLR anywhere, the first thing I imagine is that it was designed by a team of pigmy midgets (yes, pigmy midgets) for others their size. Something like the Rebel XT might be nice if I was looking for a camera that would fit in my jeans pocket, but that doesn't help the ergonomics any. As everyone has different hands, I'm glad that somebody finally made an impressive sub $1000.00 camera in a normal size.

• 1:

Battery decision. This was just a super poor choice on the part of
pentax. Should have gone with a form factor which allowed AAs
still. Ideally they would have upped the power circuity to be able
to handle the rechargable lithiums.
Maybe that just was not chosen because of a power vs size & weight
consideration?
I hope they had some VERY good reason for this route.

AA Batteries suck?

I've had to deal with the pain that is rechargeable AAs in my Sigma for years now. My previous camera was a Sony F707 with proprietary batteries that could go a month without a recharge. I'm lucky to get 100 shots now, and that's if it isn't cold out. Then it's down to 30 or so.

If the camera comes with a battery, I'd rather pay out the a*& for an extra proprietary pack than have to deal with keeping 3-4 sets of 4 AAs charged and on hand for the flash / camera at any given time.

 

[structuresguy]

No ttl support !! Come on! That is just a pain.

It is, but again - cost cutting.
The P-TTL system was introduced in the late 90's, so it's not a new
system. It's actually quite old now... Pentax are working on a
P-TTL ring flash, I hope for a solution next year, or hopefully
earlier.

Well, it may have been introduced in the late 90's, but their flagship flash was the AF500 until the 540 came out last year. So, anyone who has invested in one or more AF500's will loose a heck of a lot of money by the decision to scrap TTL. I almost bought a used one a month back. Now I am very glad I did not. Inexcuseable, AFAIAC!

Andrew

 

[structuresguy]

• As for batteries, I embrace the change. I bet the proprietary

battery has a chip which gives accurate readout on the charge
level. But the possibility to use rechargeable crv-3 would've been
a big plus. Also, I'd rather have batteries that can last 500+
shots in one go. I don't think AA compares to crv-3 or Lithiums.

Well, I routinely get 1500+ shots on one set of AA lithium batteries. So IMO there was no reason what so ever to move away from AA, except higher voltage requirements. Even then, I would still want a battery grip w/ 6-AA as an option.

 

[olhovivo]

--
Cheers,
Ricardo

 

[microbi]

yes, the cut some usefull things like pc-sync and wireless. :-(
--
.marco.microbi.

 

[sundance23192]

Was about to hop onto the Canon xxD bandwagon until I saw the specs on this camera. Any ida about price?

What Pentax lenses are similar to the Canon 70-200 and 17-55?

Did I read correctly that image stabilization is internal on this camera?

I might be changing my reigion soon. No big deal; just sold all my Nikon gear and am starting from scratch.

What's the history of problems with the predacdesors of this camera? How difficult is it to deal with Pentax service departments?

Would love to chat via e-mail with another working pro who is satisfied with Pentax in general. There is a terrible love/hate relationship with Canon owners from what I read on the chat sites.
Thanks