How to explain ... and results of poll

[Jaja]

Hello all,

First the results of the poll series 32. Here's the winner:



A nightshot of a church in Oostende (Belgian coast).
The complete results are online also and so is the new poll, series 33.
You're invited to vote again. Thanks for participation.

Now a question. When you look at image 3 of the new poll, there's something strange going on. It's a panning shot of a train moving forward, but the blurred background gives the impression it's moving backwards ...

I took the image by following the train that drove from right to left (panning also from right to left). Any explanation, or is it an "optical illusion"?

When I showed the image for the first time, this was also discussed but no reasonable explanation was found ...

Jaja
http://www.belgiumdigital.com

 

[LesDMess]

Jaja,

That is simply a great shot! I was wondering if you could elaborate chopping off the top of the towers - artistic or viewing limitation. The reason I ask is I've also taken some cathedral shots and can not get by not including them in the frame. Art, maybe it has no explanation! Thanks for sharing.
LesDMess

Hello all,
A nightshot of a church in Oostende (Belgian coast).

 

[moonface]

Maybe I'm a complete idiot.....

I take that back, I AM a complete idiot. But, when I look at the picture, I do see the train moving right to left.

Great picture either way!

 

[Jaja]

Hello LessDMess,

Thanks ... I have good memories about that shot.
It was a very warm day in July, and it was taken at about midnight.
Now the cropping: I wanted the mid part of the church in the picture.
I have also complete shots of the cathedral.
(Belgium Digital - E-10 albums - daytrip souvenirs)
There you will find 3 different shots of it.

This one was just "one of many" to illustrate the vertical ornaments, not ment as an "overall" sight on the cathedral - therefor I had other shots.

I love showing some of the details but I surely have a "total" shot of the cathedral ...

Kind regards,
Jaja
http://www.belgiumdigital.com

Hello all,
A nightshot of a church in Oostende (Belgian coast).

 

[Jaja]

Hello moonface,

How to explain those white lines in front of the trainwindow?

By moving the camera from the right to the left, they should be invisible and leave no trace at all - or am I wrong?
That's what I'm wondering ...
And that's what a lot of people are wondering ...
It's a detail, so nobody's an idiot ;-)))

Jaja
http://www.belgiumdigital.com

Maybe I'm a complete idiot.....

I take that back, I AM a complete idiot. But, when I look at the
picture, I do see the train moving right to left.

Great picture either way!

 

[DF]

I am definitely more of an idiot than Mike......and to me the train does indeed appear to be moving backwards. Something about the semi-blurred horizontal motion lines to the top left of the cab, I think.

David

 

[Jono Slack]

Hi Jaja
I got it wrong that time (think I voted for number 1)

I know why the train is going backwards - it's because the 'go faster' stripes at the toop front of the train get thinner from right to left, if it was going forwards you'd expect them to be doing it the other way around.

IMHO (of course)

kind regards
jono slack

Hello all,

snip
Now a question. When you look at image 3 of the new poll, there's
something strange going on. It's a panning shot of a train moving
forward, but the blurred background gives the impression it's
moving backwards ...
I took the image by following the train that drove from right to
left (panning also from right to left). Any explanation, or is it
an "optical illusion"?
When I showed the image for the first time, this was also discussed
but no reasonable explanation was found ...

Jaja
http://www.belgiumdigital.com

 

[DF]

Aha!! That was exactly what I was trying to say.......only much earlier than the tardy Englishman, of course....

David

I know why the train is going backwards - it's because the 'go
faster' stripes at the toop front of the train get thinner from
right to left, if it was going forwards you'd expect them to be
doing it the other way around.

IMHO (of course)

kind regards
jono slack

Hello all,

snip
Now a question. When you look at image 3 of the new poll, there's
something strange going on. It's a panning shot of a train moving
forward, but the blurred background gives the impression it's
moving backwards ...
I took the image by following the train that drove from right to
left (panning also from right to left). Any explanation, or is it
an "optical illusion"?
When I showed the image for the first time, this was also discussed
but no reasonable explanation was found ...

Jaja
http://www.belgiumdigital.com

 

[Jaja]

Hello DF,

"Voila", you've spotted the part of the image that's "unusual" ...

Those white lines give the impression of a backward movement, and be assured, the train was moving from the right to the left ...
But how about those white "lines"?

Jaja
http://www.belgiumdigital.com

I am definitely more of an idiot than Mike......and to me the train
does indeed appear to be moving backwards. Something about the
semi-blurred horizontal motion lines to the top left of the cab, I
think.

David

 

[DF]

Well, I think our English friend's belated explanation says it a bit more exactly than I was able to.

David (believing that Jaja is actually lying.....the train was in fact in reverse....)

"Voila", you've spotted the part of the image that's "unusual" ...
Those white lines give the impression of a backward movement, and
be assured, the train was moving from the right to the left ...
But how about those white "lines"?

Jaja
http://www.belgiumdigital.com

I am definitely more of an idiot than Mike......and to me the train
does indeed appear to be moving backwards. Something about the
semi-blurred horizontal motion lines to the top left of the cab, I
think.

David

 

[Jaja]

Hello Jono,

Hi Jaja
I got it wrong that time (think I voted for number 1)

• Well, that's why it's a poll ;-)))

I know why the train is going backwards - it's because the 'go
faster' stripes at the toop front of the train get thinner from
right to left, if it was going forwards you'd expect them to be
doing it the other way around.

• That's the crucial part of the image, but those lines shouldn't be there so "pronounced" when the train is moving from the right to the left and the camera is panning ...

Or are they just as long as the shutterspeed could capture them?(1/80 sec)

It's an image that caused a lot of discussions and nobody had a real explanation so far ...

IMHO (of course)

• Your well respected opinion (of course ;-)

Jaja
http://www.belgiumdigital.com

 

[Jaja]

Hello DF,

Well, that's exactly what I'm trying to say ...

Sometimes an explanation is quit reasonable, and than someone says again that it's quit obvious that the train is moving backwards ...
And it was moving forward! ( traindrivers aren't allowed in the backseat)

I'm not lying ... just trying to find an explanation for those different opinions.

Jaja
http://www.belgiumdigital.com

David (believing that Jaja is actually lying.....the train was in
fact in reverse....)

"Voila", you've spotted the part of the image that's "unusual" ...
Those white lines give the impression of a backward movement, and
be assured, the train was moving from the right to the left ...
But how about those white "lines"?

Jaja
http://www.belgiumdigital.com

I am definitely more of an idiot than Mike......and to me the train
does indeed appear to be moving backwards. Something about the
semi-blurred horizontal motion lines to the top left of the cab, I
think.

David

 

[Jono Slack]

Hello David

Of course, being a psychology professor, I realised that you knew the answer all along, but, as you are also a nice guy, that you wouldn't want the rest of us poor mortals to feel intellectually inferior by saying so.

Always the gentleman - and I had thought that this was the preserve of Englishmen.

. . . . . . . .

like irony

:^)

how're you doing David!

kind regards
jono slack

David

I know why the train is going backwards - it's because the 'go
faster' stripes at the toop front of the train get thinner from
right to left, if it was going forwards you'd expect them to be
doing it the other way around.

IMHO (of course)

kind regards
jono slack

Hello all,

snip
Now a question. When you look at image 3 of the new poll, there's
something strange going on. It's a panning shot of a train moving
forward, but the blurred background gives the impression it's
moving backwards ...
I took the image by following the train that drove from right to
left (panning also from right to left). Any explanation, or is it
an "optical illusion"?
When I showed the image for the first time, this was also discussed
but no reasonable explanation was found ...

Jaja
http://www.belgiumdigital.com

 

[Jono Slack]

Hi Jaja
I'm glad to know you respect my opinion

and I'm sticking to it - there's nothing wrong with the lines being there - it's just the way they're tapering

I think

:^)

Hi Jaja
I got it wrong that time (think I voted for number 1)

• Well, that's why it's a poll ;-)))

I know why the train is going backwards - it's because the 'go
faster' stripes at the toop front of the train get thinner from
right to left, if it was going forwards you'd expect them to be
doing it the other way around.

• That's the crucial part of the image, but those lines shouldn't

be there so "pronounced" when the train is moving from the right to
the left and the camera is panning ...
Or are they just as long as the shutterspeed could capture
them?(1/80 sec)
It's an image that caused a lot of discussions and nobody had a
real explanation so far ...

IMHO (of course)

• Your well respected opinion (of course ;-)

Jaja
http://www.belgiumdigital.com

 

[Jaja]

Hello Jono,

Quit a logical, respectfull (;-) explanation ... except for those last words:
"I think" ;-)))

And that's the problem, nobody is sure about this and no-one can explain why - but those white lines are the key of it all ...
And no, I didn't add them afterwards using PS ;-)))

Jaja
http://www.belgiumdigital.com

and I'm sticking to it - there's nothing wrong with the lines being
there - it's just the way they're tapering

I think

:^)

Hi Jaja
I got it wrong that time (think I voted for number 1)

• Well, that's why it's a poll ;-)))

I know why the train is going backwards - it's because the 'go
faster' stripes at the toop front of the train get thinner from
right to left, if it was going forwards you'd expect them to be
doing it the other way around.

• That's the crucial part of the image, but those lines shouldn't

be there so "pronounced" when the train is moving from the right to
the left and the camera is panning ...
Or are they just as long as the shutterspeed could capture
them?(1/80 sec)
It's an image that caused a lot of discussions and nobody had a
real explanation so far ...

IMHO (of course)

• Your well respected opinion (of course ;-)

Jaja
http://www.belgiumdigital.com

 

[DF]

Jono Slack wrote:
Hello David
Of course, being a psychology professor, I realised that you > knew
the answer all along,

Answer? What in tarnation was the QUESTION anyway? (looking around confusedly for his medication....)

but, as you are also a nice guy

Huh? (still looking for medication.....)

and I had thought that this was the preserve
of Englishmen.

Actually, I prefer grape jelly......

how're you doing David!

Much better since I found those little pills.......thanks!

David

 

[moonface]

I did notice the white lines originally. To me they appear to start at a higher elevation on the left of the picture and swirl a bit down to the right (like the Nike 'swoosh'). The effect makes me visually think that you panned from right to left, in a very slight angle upward, and then pulled up on the camera, ever so slightly as you snapped the shutter. Evidence of this exists in the slight ghost image around the outline of the engine car.

My first impression was that there was something light colored in the trees behind the train, accentuated by the motion of the camera.

BTW - DF - NOBODY is a bigger idiot than I am. I'd have to write an autobiography to prove it, but I'm too big of an idiot to write an autobiography. What were we talking about again?

Well, that's exactly what I'm trying to say ...
Sometimes an explanation is quit reasonable, and than someone says
again that it's quit obvious that the train is moving backwards ...
And it was moving forward! ( traindrivers aren't allowed in the
backseat)
I'm not lying ... just trying to find an explanation for those
different opinions.

Jaja
http://www.belgiumdigital.com

David (believing that Jaja is actually lying.....the train was in
fact in reverse....)

"Voila", you've spotted the part of the image that's "unusual" ...
Those white lines give the impression of a backward movement, and
be assured, the train was moving from the right to the left ...
But how about those white "lines"?

Jaja
http://www.belgiumdigital.com

I am definitely more of an idiot than Mike......and to me the train
does indeed appear to be moving backwards. Something about the
semi-blurred horizontal motion lines to the top left of the cab, I
think.

David

 

[Blokey Bloggs]

Hi Jaja

First it should be the way it is - it is what it is. If you think it looks like it's going backwards when you know it is going forwards, then it must be an optical illusion - or more tablets are needed!

The background and foreground which you accept as normal are also blurred in the same way and direction; it is that this lighter part stands out from the darker greens and looks like the smear you get behind an object say a cars bumper trail. Remember, you also are moving at speed (whether panning or not) and so the background which is still will smear to your right. Optical illusion.

What did the train driver say about whether he was going forwards whilst gong backwards? No wonder they're always late!

Blokey

 

[Laurie Sokoloff]

Not wanting to be left out of the Total Idiots Club . . .

If Jaja is panning from right to left, trying to stay in sync with the train, then the background is in fact moving from left to right. Those white lines (it seems to me) are something behind the train, appearing just as they should. I think if we could also see the back end of the train in this shot, there'd be little confusion.

So, did I prove myself worthy of the club???

Laurie - not so sure she wants to join a club that would have her as a member.

Hello Jono,

Quit a logical, respectfull (;-) explanation ... except for those
last words:
"I think" ;-)))
And that's the problem, nobody is sure about this and no-one can
explain why - but those white lines are the key of it all ...
And no, I didn't add them afterwards using PS ;-)))

 

[Jaja]

Hello Laurie,

Welcome to the club ;-)))

Not wanting to be left out of the Total Idiots Club . . .

If Jaja is panning from right to left, trying to stay in sync with
the train, then the background is in fact moving from left to
right. Those white lines (it seems to me) are something behind the
train, appearing just as they should. I think if we could also see
the back end of the train in this shot, there'd be little confusion.

• That's what most people are saying - the train moves from te left to the right - and it wasn't - I can know, I was there, I shot the image ;-)

But why does we have that "illusion"? The white stripes are responsible for that illusion, but why are they in that way?
Those are the "unanswered" questions ...

So, did I prove myself worthy of the club???

• Of course, who would doubt your qualifications? ;-))))

Laurie - not so sure she wants to join a club that would have her
as a member.

• Jaja - not sure that he sees what he shot ...

Jaja
http://www.belgiumdigital.com

Hello Jono,

Quit a logical, respectfull (;-) explanation ... except for those
last words:
"I think" ;-)))
And that's the problem, nobody is sure about this and no-one can
explain why - but those white lines are the key of it all ...
And no, I didn't add them afterwards using PS ;-)))