will I be happy with a 20D?

[royta]

Hello. I am seriously considering upgrading my G2, as I am unhappy with it's focus speed. My children are getting older, and therefore moving faster, and I don't want to be forced to preset the focus to catch them in action. For some crazy reason, my 5, 3, and 1 1/2 year old kids can never be counted on running by at the perfect distance from the lens.

The following quote is taken from a thread on the Canon SLR lens forum. http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1029&message=13590355

"Rarely do you see people posting photos here that havent been post processed. The p&s cameras such as the G6 do much more processing in camera. The dslrs assume that the users are going to be responsible for more of the post-processing themselves. Tweaking the in camera parameters can trick it into acting more like the G6... however the results will be supperior if you do the processing yourself."

This comment concerns me, as I do not want to be forced to post process the pictures in order to print out high quality, frameable pictures. I realize I will more than likely need to crop in order to get rid of an unnecessary background, but that's really where I want to draw the line. I understand basic SLR skills and would hope that this alone will produce beautiful pictures. I shouldn't be forced to be an expert on $600 PhotoShop program. I want to be able to focus spot on, and have the picture come out sharp. If I want a blurry background, then I'll lower the f-stop. If I want my kids' legs to slightly blurry while running, then I'll raise the f-stop and lower the shutter speed. You know, basic SLR photography stuff. Then, if I get a picture worth blowing up and hanging on the wall, I'd like to do that without any desk time behind the computer. Basically, I want my 20D to act just like my old Pentax Asahi Spotmatic manual focus, manual exposure 35mm film camera. Well almost, anyway, I dont want to have to manually focus.

Am I asking too much?

 

[Davidlw]

I have 2 20D's and have had 1D's and D30's and I hate to tell you but I have not seen many photos that could not use a little help from Photoshop. Unless you are in a controled studio environment, almost always you will require some sort of tweaking. JMHO
--
http://www.davidworleyphotography.com

 

[Doc Tonic]

going to agree with the above poster 100%. If you plan to use the 20D as a P&S camera and have no interest in photoshop and using the more advanced features like external flashes and getting higher quality lenses, then I'd recommend looking at the higher end P&S cameras like this one

http://consumer.usa.canon.com/ir/controller?act=ModelDetailAct&fcategoryid=144&modelid=9823

Cameras like that were meant for people like you who want nice images straight out of the camera and don't want to deal with interchangable lenses, flashes, and other such accessories. Odds are the 20D will be too complex for you to want to learn how to use.

 

[misha]

royta wrote:
Basically, I want my 20D to act just like my

old Pentax Asahi Spotmatic manual focus, manual exposure 35mm film
camera. Well almost, anyway, I dont want to have to manually
focus.

Did you develop and print the photos from the Pentax yourself? If you did it in a lab, it performed similar postprocessing "behind the scenes". They will probably do the same "enhancements" if you take your digital files to Ritz for printing.
--
Misha

 

[royta]

I don't understand why that is. I've taken some beautiful shots with SLR film cameras, using filters, macro extensions, etc. Why would a 20D be any different?

What kind of post processing work are we talking about here? Maybe I'm thinking it's going to take more than what it really needs.

 

[royta]

That's exactly what I would be doing. Cropping, saving to JPEG, burning to a CD, and going to the local Fotomat.

 

[Mark Whigham]

Probably not. The 20D is not a P&S and wasn't designed to function as one. You could shoot jpeg and use the in-camera parameter settings ie. set-1, etc., but that is shortchanging the capabilities of the 20D. If you want a faster, high-quality, but easy to use camera, try the G6 or the upcoming S2 IS or perhaps the Powershot Pro 1. But don't ask the 20D to step back, it is a professional level camera that assumes the user will know how or learn to use it to the fullest.

Just my opinion.

 

[Bob Austin]

I agree, if you want point and shoot--get a point and shoot camera. The beauty of the digital SLR is that you have the versitility of interchangable superior lenses, That you have the true view thru the lense--and you can change the parameters in the field to get the picture you want. For example you could not get a shot which had both the shadows and highlights properly exposed. You can do this with a digital camera and photoshop--Elements will have everything you need and will cost less than $100. There are other programs.

I used to do my own lab work--and that is the beauty of a digital camera you can do your own lab work, without the dark room.

Frankly to get the really best photos you do need superior lenses, the flexability of a DSLR--But it sounds as if you don't want to fool with is necessary to get that super photo.

Also you will miss the spot meter-in fact I plunked down more than I paid for my Spotomatic for a good spot meter recently--so there are other costs--including the off the camera flash, including multiple lights and remote tirgger etc. which will come with the Digital SLR....

I would say that I post process almost every shot I take--it goes fairly fast-and makes me more critical of my work.

 

[Mark Whigham]

that I'm in no way making judgement on the quality of your photogaphs. Only pointing out the differences in post photo work involved.
Best regards.

 

[Todd Walker]

That's exactly what I would be doing. Cropping, saving to JPEG,
burning to a CD, and going to the local Fotomat.

Then why buy a digital at all? You can get a very capable film SLR and a few nice lenses for the price of a 20D. If you don't want to process and print your own, why go digital?

I think you are wanting to justify the 20D. The bottom line is, all pictures from a digital SLR need post processing. This is by design because the manufacturers want to give YOU control over what the final product looks like. If the camera does the sharpening, saturation, contrast, etc. then that control is taken away from the photographer.
--
Todd Walker
http://www.toddwalker.net
http://www.twphotography.net
http://www.pbase.com/twalker294

 

[royta]

Maybe I don't like the answers I am receiving. Not because they are bad answers, but because I really want the 20D. I also don't think people understand all that I want to do with the 20D.

Let me clear up that I want to learn how to use the camera to it's fullest. I want to take extreme closeup macro shots, I want to be able to take beautiful landscape shots. I want to screw a circular polarizer on the end of whatever lens I am using in order to cut reflection on glass, to make a blue sky more blue, or to make green grass more green.

I just don't want to have to do major work to a picture in order to make it worthy of having an 8x10 printed for me. Shouldn't I be able to do this with just the camera?

What I really want to is to be able to take a picture of my 5 year old on second base, and have it be in focus when I view it on my monitor.

 

[Mark Whigham]

I think that sometimes the term Post-Processing as it is used in this forum may cause some readers to reach incorrect conclusions. I shoot in raw exclusively and usually in M mode, which gives the greatest flexibility in correcting, enhancing and manipulating the photos. But for must of my pictures, all I do is a little unsharp mask in Photoshop CS with perhaps a little curves tweaking. Total post processing time is minimal unless I am correcting an error (which is almost always mine) or if I want to get a little out there and let the creavitiy flow.

I think you will come to love the 20D, especially once you get used to it. If you will put in a little work, I'm sure you will not regret the 20D.

Good Luck

Mark

 

[Bobster2]

Go ahead and buy the 20D. You are worried too much about problems that are only in your imagination.

Post processing is not a chore. It's fun. It's always a thrill for me to see how a seemingly dull image turns into a thing of beauty with just a little bit of effort with post processing tools. It becomes my own creation instead of something that somebody else did for me.

Just do it.

 

[Craig Allyn Rose]

What I really want to is to be able to take a picture of my 5 year
old on second base, and have it be in focus when I view it on my
monitor.

If this is the real goal of your photographic exploits...point & shoot will work just fine and you'll have money left to buy the whole team pizza after the game! I love the 20D, but I use it for professional purposes. It just doesn't sound like that is your goal. Best of luck!



--------------------------------------------
craig allyn rose photography

http://www.emergencyphoto.com
http://www.carosephoto.com

[email protected]

• emergency, nature, aviation,

travel and urban themes -

 

[Todd Walker]

I just don't want to have to do major work to a picture in order to
make it worthy of having an 8x10 printed for me. Shouldn't I be
able to do this with just the camera?

What is your definition of "major work?" On my shots, my post processing usually consists of adjustments to saturation, contrast, exposure (via adjusting the white and black points on the histogram,) white balance (through the RAW converter,) and unsharp mask. If this seems too much for you, then a digital SLR isn't for you.

We see plenty of p&s users come in here after buying a digital SLR and complaining that their p&s takes better pictures. No, it doesn't -- it takes pictures that have more "punch" straight out of the camera because they have greatly increased saturation and contrast but they lack detail in the highlights and shadows because they have much less dynamic range than a digital SLR. They also have a lot more noise and are basically unusable over ISO 100. Just read the Sony forum and see everyone there who insists that their 828 takes better pictures than any digital SLR. I haven't looked there lately but I can guarantee they are there -- they always are.

What I really want to is to be able to take a picture of my 5 year
old on second base, and have it be in focus when I view it on my
monitor.

Yes the 20D will focus much faster and more accurately than any p&s. But the results straight out of the camera will be disappointing to you if you compare them to a p&s digital.
--
Todd Walker
http://www.toddwalker.net
http://www.twphotography.net
http://www.pbase.com/twalker294

 

[BobVillanueva]

The 20d is awesome and all the camera I'll need for a long time. The only post-processing I've done is tweak the sharpness and increase the contrast a bit in some shots.

In addition, you don't need the full version of PS. I have PS Element 2.0, which I bought for $50. PS Elements 3.0 is out now and costs about $75 at Sam's Club.

 

[royta]

Then why buy a digital at all? You can get a very capable film SLR
and a few nice lenses for the price of a 20D. If you don't want to
process and print your own, why go digital?

Because I can take a gazillion pictures, and have the ones I like printed out. I don't want to pay for printed mistakes.

I think you are wanting to justify the 20D. The bottom line is, all
pictures from a digital SLR need post processing. This is by design
because the manufacturers want to give YOU control over what the
final product looks like. If the camera does the sharpening,
saturation, contrast, etc. then that control is taken away from the
photographer.

Want to justify the 20D? No, not me. I guess a few minutes worth of work spent on the shots you can quickly tell are worth the time, wouldn't be that big of a deal. From what I read from another user, Photoshop Elements should be enough to post process the shot. Or maybe that's just the way I read it.

 

[misha]

The 20d is awesome and all the camera I'll need for a long time.
The only post-processing I've done is tweak the sharpness and
increase the contrast a bit in some shots.

In addition, you don't need the full version of PS. I have PS
Element 2.0, which I bought for $50. PS Elements 3.0 is out now
and costs about $75 at Sam's Club.

Doesn't the 20D come bundled with PE 2.0?
--
Misha

 

[Julio Balaguero]

I have a friend just like you that likes photography but doesn't want to learn or do post processing. He has been using a 10d for about two years and has recently bought a RebelXT/350d. He sends his pictures directly to his home printer and is very happy with the results.

If you expose and compose the images correctly in the camera, just like in the film days, you hardly have to do any post processing. Some images will need to be sharpenned if you print them bigger than 4x6. This is very easy to do in PSE2 that comes with the camera. You can even get a third party software that automatically does this for you or an action for PSE2 that also does it for you.

Most people do more post processing to experiment and because it is a lot of fun. Beats working in the smelly darkroom for hours.

In the film days your lab did the post processing for you for a price. You can have them do it for digital, also for a price.
Hope this helps you decide.
Best regards,
Julio

 

[royta]

Thank you Julio. Yes, I do plan on printing (having printed) 5x7, or larger, of the pictures you want to display for friends and family. It sounds like the included software is all I need.