Jono Slack
Forum Pro
Dropping something like that into the post and then declining to talk about it.
kind regards
jono slack
Jono Slack
http://www.slack.co.uk
kind regards
jono slack
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Jono Slack
http://www.slack.co.uk
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Olympus E-1 or Canon 10D ?
- Thread starter JM Porter
- Start date
Gary Eickmeier
Senior Member
Boy, would a lot of people be pi$$ed if they came out with a 10mp E2.
Gary Eickmeier
Twiddle D Dum
Senior Member
Paul
Vancouver, WA
Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity !
Vancouver, WA
Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity !
John Brewton
Leading Member
Actually, Gary, no. An E2 would compliment the E1 nicely in the bag and I could have a body for each major lens!!
JM Porter wrote:
[snip]
[snip]
Just looked at the Olympus website - the lens coupons expire on July 31st. I wonder if they could possibly know something I don't.
Ray Thompson
Senior Member
OK. Something is up. The price for the E-1 (with 14-55) at B&H just took a $200.00 price drop. This occurred within the last four days as I had paid the higher price. B&H is refunding the difference so no sweat there.
Also on their site the FL-40 flash is now discontinued. This may have been done long ago so it may be old news.
However, the price drop indicates something is going to happen. Sony did this on the F-717 just before the F-828 was released.
Let's see, Olympus had the OM-1, then the OM-2, then the OM-3, then the OM-4. So the next logical step would be an E-2. It may have an 8 megapixel imaging device, less noise, perhaps 2 to 8 fps shooting (adjustable, naturally), a larger frame buffer allowing 24 frames, continuous shooting as long as the button is held, and there is space in the buffer, a picture is taken and as pictures are written to the memory the shooting continues, multiple automatic programs with priority given to aperture or shutter, complete flash compensation where the flash level can be set to fractional levels of what would be a proper flash exposure (dynamic fill flash), and longer battery life with in-camera charging, a new off-camera flash grip with all connections made where the grip attaches to the camera (no more cables), one HV external pack can power the camera and the flash, and fingerprint authorization so that if the owners hand is not using the camera, it fails work, and perhaps On-Star for theft protection.
RayT
Also on their site the FL-40 flash is now discontinued. This may have been done long ago so it may be old news.
However, the price drop indicates something is going to happen. Sony did this on the F-717 just before the F-828 was released.
Let's see, Olympus had the OM-1, then the OM-2, then the OM-3, then the OM-4. So the next logical step would be an E-2. It may have an 8 megapixel imaging device, less noise, perhaps 2 to 8 fps shooting (adjustable, naturally), a larger frame buffer allowing 24 frames, continuous shooting as long as the button is held, and there is space in the buffer, a picture is taken and as pictures are written to the memory the shooting continues, multiple automatic programs with priority given to aperture or shutter, complete flash compensation where the flash level can be set to fractional levels of what would be a proper flash exposure (dynamic fill flash), and longer battery life with in-camera charging, a new off-camera flash grip with all connections made where the grip attaches to the camera (no more cables), one HV external pack can power the camera and the flash, and fingerprint authorization so that if the owners hand is not using the camera, it fails work, and perhaps On-Star for theft protection.
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RayT
Chris Charlton
Senior Member
I have a 10D but I have considered jumping ship to the E1, I only have two canon lenses so it would not be a big issue for me.
Pros for the Canon IMO:
For me it boils down to a couple of things, one is that canon has a better future as far as upgrades, I can upgrade to the 10DmkII (soon) a 1DmkII or a 1Ds if I want to in the future and I can keep the same lenses I have now.
The other thing is noise, the 10D has superior noise at higher ISO's which really makes a difference in certain circumstances, I like being able to crank up the sensitivity without suffering too much.
Cons for 10D:
Weight, big difference to E1.
Wide angle options, I have 17mm zoom which gives me 27mm FOV (compared with 35mm film), if I want to go wider than 27mm its $$$ and the quality may not be that good.
Pros for E1:
Body sealing and quality, the E1 beats the 10D, its clearly superior.
Weight, the E1 and lenses are certainly lighter than the equivalent 10D's.
Wide angle lens options, 22mm zoom at the wide end is good, and Olympus optics are second to none, I used to own all OM gear.
Cons of E1:
Sensor size, limits future resolution and noise performace more than canon.
Upgrade path, this may be an issue, but if Fuji gets on board with super CCD 4/3 then there will be some very nice 4/3 cameras.
Limits lens choice, however this really doesn't bother me too much as there is a good enough range for me right now from oly.
It seems to me a lot more Nikon folks are leaving Nikon and going with Oly (than canon), after all Nikon is committed to 1.5X sensors (almost same size as E1) yet they are still making bulky heavy oversized cameras for these smaller sensors, whats the point?? I'd rather have an E1 than a Nikon.
Pros for the Canon IMO:
For me it boils down to a couple of things, one is that canon has a better future as far as upgrades, I can upgrade to the 10DmkII (soon) a 1DmkII or a 1Ds if I want to in the future and I can keep the same lenses I have now.
The other thing is noise, the 10D has superior noise at higher ISO's which really makes a difference in certain circumstances, I like being able to crank up the sensitivity without suffering too much.
Cons for 10D:
Weight, big difference to E1.
Wide angle options, I have 17mm zoom which gives me 27mm FOV (compared with 35mm film), if I want to go wider than 27mm its $$$ and the quality may not be that good.
Pros for E1:
Body sealing and quality, the E1 beats the 10D, its clearly superior.
Weight, the E1 and lenses are certainly lighter than the equivalent 10D's.
Wide angle lens options, 22mm zoom at the wide end is good, and Olympus optics are second to none, I used to own all OM gear.
Cons of E1:
Sensor size, limits future resolution and noise performace more than canon.
Upgrade path, this may be an issue, but if Fuji gets on board with super CCD 4/3 then there will be some very nice 4/3 cameras.
Limits lens choice, however this really doesn't bother me too much as there is a good enough range for me right now from oly.
It seems to me a lot more Nikon folks are leaving Nikon and going with Oly (than canon), after all Nikon is committed to 1.5X sensors (almost same size as E1) yet they are still making bulky heavy oversized cameras for these smaller sensors, whats the point?? I'd rather have an E1 than a Nikon.
Ray Thompson
Senior Member
Yeh, and B&H just dropped the price of the E1 with 14-54 lense by $200.00. Also the FL-40 flash is discontinued.
RayT
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RayT
Good catch! I wonder if this could be the best time ever to buy the E1 kit and still take advantage of the rebates, or will it go down in price even further after the new up-coming models are announced? It's not like I have to have it this instance, but after scanning 16 rolls of film and having my best Yosemite shots come out grainy, I'm pretty close to taking the plunge...
JM Porter
Senior Member
Boris, If you will send me an e-mail, I just might have the answer for you. I cannot print here what is going on at Olympus. Jim
Ray Thompson
Senior Member
Well, I look at it this way. You can always wait for a better deal. Then all that you do will be waiting as a better deal will always be forthcoming.
Take the plunge when you are ready. If within two months a better deal comes along, so what. You had two months of enjoyment. I just watch the place I purchased from to see if the price drops in 30 days, and if it does, ask for an adjustment. B&H did not even quibble about giving me a refund.
I personally think that $1799 is a good price for the camera and 14-54 lense.
Now I just have to figure out what to do with my Sony F-717. Do I sell or keep as a backup camera.
RayT
Take the plunge when you are ready. If within two months a better deal comes along, so what. You had two months of enjoyment. I just watch the place I purchased from to see if the price drops in 30 days, and if it does, ask for an adjustment. B&H did not even quibble about giving me a refund.
I personally think that $1799 is a good price for the camera and 14-54 lense.
Now I just have to figure out what to do with my Sony F-717. Do I sell or keep as a backup camera.
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RayT
HI all.
I have had the E1 for 3 months now , It is a very good camera and can hold it's own against the 10D .
On Saturday I went to Mallory Park to see the super bikes , The E1 handle well and the A/F was very good , then I tryed my mates 10D with the EOS 300mm f4 L lens WOW what a nice lens very sharp and quient as well .
What I would love to have is the E1 body and the EOS 300mm f4 L lens ,
this lens is only £900 and the OLY 50-200 is £700. There is only £200 difference I have to admit that the EOS lens is a better lens but the E1 is a better camera.
I do feel very tempted to buy the 10D just for the lense's but I may just wait a little longer to see what OLY will bring out soon.
Mick
Shadco
Senior Member
Actually He could but then he'd have to shoot us all. ;-)
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Shad
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Day Hiker
Forum Pro
So what you realistically want is a 240mm F/4 lens from Oly that's as sharp as the Canon 300 F/4, right? I guess the 150mm F/2 will be a little short for you. When you think about it though, that lens used in conjunction with the 1.4 TC will give you a 210mm F/2.8, albeit at a high price compared to the Canon.
The lens roadmap shows a 125-250 zoom coming next year. Does anyone know if it will be as bright as F/4?
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Regards,
Jim
'The camera is an instrument that teaches people how to see without a camera.' -- Dorothea Lange
Not really a fair comparison to judge a zoom against a prime since primes will nearly always win out (with the main exception being the Leica VARIO-APO-ELMARIT-R f/2.8 70-180 mm which will beat most any prime). That said, the 50-200mm is sharp as a tack and gives an almost equivalent focal length compared to the 300mm on the 10D.
Simon
Kevin Barrett
Senior Member
Pure speculation on my part, but I'm guessing the Oly consumer body is launched and it will be more similar to the 8080 than to the E-1, and will likely have 8Mp.
A launch this early makes sense, as it would give Oly ample time to ramp up production for the holiday season. The pro-sumer C5050z was launched in Aug of 2002 with general availability around November. So their is a precedent for this timetable
I'm guessing that a dust removal system and weather protection etc.
will not be included in their pro-sumer body. However, I'm sure performance will be class leading and I believe Oly will maintain a metal body as another differentiator from Canon and Nikon.
Again, pure speculation on my part.... I'm curious to see if I'm even close or most likely, I'm all wet and it's Canon's announcement of the 10D MkII!
Either way, it shall be an interesting holiday season...
Kevin Barrett
Lowell, MI
A launch this early makes sense, as it would give Oly ample time to ramp up production for the holiday season. The pro-sumer C5050z was launched in Aug of 2002 with general availability around November. So their is a precedent for this timetable
I'm guessing that a dust removal system and weather protection etc.
will not be included in their pro-sumer body. However, I'm sure performance will be class leading and I believe Oly will maintain a metal body as another differentiator from Canon and Nikon.
Again, pure speculation on my part.... I'm curious to see if I'm even close or most likely, I'm all wet and it's Canon's announcement of the 10D MkII!
Either way, it shall be an interesting holiday season...
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Kevin Barrett
Lowell, MI
Ross
Veteran Member
Simon,
I think you are right about the 50-200. I just ran a news paper on the wall test (actually a Porter's Cataloge cover on a fence) between the Vivitar Series One 90mm macro and the 50-200 (at 88mm) and I can't see any difference even at 200% (well the Vivitar has a yellow cast). The Vivitar is regarded as a very sharp lens, so the 50-200 can indeed hold its own. The distance was 10 meters.
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Bob Ross
http://www.pbase.com/rossrtx
JM Porter
Senior Member
Jim writes: Kevin, I would love to move Olys timetable up for them but I can't. They will not announce anything new in the "E"Series until Photokina in late September. They are very tightlipped about what is coming so they won't kill what is already here. From their initial timetable, they still owe us a couple of new lenses this year and at least one body(probably a consumer version). For them to lower the price, they will reduce the goodies on the consumer camera. That way they can justify the 2 prices by the differences in the 2 bodies. Sigma is still dragging its feet on the 2 lenses they announced,we are now looking at September or early October delivery. They should come out about the same time as the new consumer body. My 11 day countdown wasn't for a new product announcement, it had to do with money. Thanks, Jim
After reading all the reviews I could find (particularly by Dpreview) I decided that the best camera to buy at the price was the Canon EOS 10D. I had handled the Nikon D70 in a shop and I did not like the feel of the camera or its viewfinder. However, I saw a great deal on a nearly new Nikon D100, bought it, but I found the results to be very flat. Dynamic range seemed very poor and colours were not bright. I was able to return the camera within 15 days so I did. I then bought a Canon EOS 10D which seems quite solid when you first handle it, but the body might be metal, but most of the nobs and controls felt quite poor (the Nikon was better in this respect). I found the picture quality of the Canon very disappointing. I found it sharp with low noise, but I did not find the colours it reproduced at all accurate (this was shooting raw so that I could correct the white balance), but worse still, I found the dynamic range truly disappointing (again, worse than the Nikon). Given even lighting it could produce nice pictures if you weren’t too fussy about the accuracy of the colours. Then, after I had had it a for only a few days I took a landscape picture and saw the tell tale signs of dust on the low pass filter. I found this very annoying as I had only had the lens off the camera once to put the lens on when I first received the camera, and I had been very careful. So I reckon that the camera came with dust in it from Canon. Anyway I tried a blower and failed to remove the dust and so I sent for the pec pads etc. and cleaned the filter.
While all this was happening I was reading the Olympus SLR forum and I was discovering how delighted most of these E1 owners were with their cameras and I was very impressed by the quality of their photos. So I sold my Canon 10D and bought a Olympus E1 with a 14-54 mm zoom. I have never regretted that decision for a moment. I am truly delighted with my Olympus E1. I find the accuracy and brightness of the colours and the dynamic range really excellent. I find that noise is very low up to iso 400. The camera starts up much faster than the Canon (½ a sec compared to 2½ sec, although not quite a fast as the Nikon, which is nearly instant).
I very much like to see 100% of the picture through the viewfinder as I do not need to guess what I am not taking. I also very much like the build of the E1 which I think is excellent (all the controls feel great and I like the fact that it has protection against dust and moisture). I am very happy with the sharpness of the photos, in fact I am very happy with the camera in every way. So far I haven’t attempted to print any poster sized prints so I am very happy with the quality of the pictures that my Olympus E1 takes.
I think that I was originally far too taken in by the Dpreview tests which ultimately do not tell us the quality of the photos the cameras can take. I have had no dust on the filter and think that Olympus’s vibration system really does seem to work.
Reading the forums, I think that far too many people are obsessed by the number of mega pixels (I was and it was another reason why I originally rejected the E1). I would now rather own the E1 than the 11 mega pixel Canon EOS 1DS as I do not feel I need more mega pixels than the really good quality 5 that the E1 has. I would rather have all the great features that the Olympus E1 has.
While all this was happening I was reading the Olympus SLR forum and I was discovering how delighted most of these E1 owners were with their cameras and I was very impressed by the quality of their photos. So I sold my Canon 10D and bought a Olympus E1 with a 14-54 mm zoom. I have never regretted that decision for a moment. I am truly delighted with my Olympus E1. I find the accuracy and brightness of the colours and the dynamic range really excellent. I find that noise is very low up to iso 400. The camera starts up much faster than the Canon (½ a sec compared to 2½ sec, although not quite a fast as the Nikon, which is nearly instant).
I very much like to see 100% of the picture through the viewfinder as I do not need to guess what I am not taking. I also very much like the build of the E1 which I think is excellent (all the controls feel great and I like the fact that it has protection against dust and moisture). I am very happy with the sharpness of the photos, in fact I am very happy with the camera in every way. So far I haven’t attempted to print any poster sized prints so I am very happy with the quality of the pictures that my Olympus E1 takes.
I think that I was originally far too taken in by the Dpreview tests which ultimately do not tell us the quality of the photos the cameras can take. I have had no dust on the filter and think that Olympus’s vibration system really does seem to work.
Reading the forums, I think that far too many people are obsessed by the number of mega pixels (I was and it was another reason why I originally rejected the E1). I would now rather own the E1 than the 11 mega pixel Canon EOS 1DS as I do not feel I need more mega pixels than the really good quality 5 that the E1 has. I would rather have all the great features that the Olympus E1 has.
So, the E-1 will be available for the same price as the 10D in 11 days.....
dgrogers
http://www.pbase.com/drog
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dgrogers
http://www.pbase.com/drog
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