Macro techniques with kit lense

Hi,

I've seen some of the great macro shots in this forum. Many of them were posted recently in this thread by BigMike:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1031&message=9538061

I have not yet got a macro lense, so my question is how do you get these detailed close ups with the kit lense - even shots of insects and spiders in full image size have been posted, I think.

I've made som experiments, but don't get these results yet. I've turned the lense the other way around - it worked out well, but difficult to do it this way in the park or in the woods. So some advices as I wait for a macro lense would be very helpful.

Thanks!

Kjetil

There are 5 ways to do macro...
1) Using a macro lens (best method)

2) Extension Tubes (cheaper than some macros lenses but not particularly cheap either)
3) Reverse mounting a lens on your camera with a reverse mount adapter
4) Reversing one lens in front of another using a male/male reversing ring
5) Close-up filters (worst way)

All these methods, with the exception of buying a macro lens, will severely limit your subject distance from the camera. Extension tubes will subtantially slow down a lens. If you reverse mount the lens on the camera body you will lose autofocus and apertature controls. Adding extra glass in the form of a reverse mounted lens on another lens or close up filters can also further degrade image quality so be sure to only use high quality lenses and filters. A tripod is necessary to get sharp images with the above methods (should really be used for all macro... but is really necessary when the extra stops need to be taken into account for the tubes or extra lenses or when manual focusing is required).

-Jordan

Kjetil said:

Hi,
I've seen some of the great macro shots in this forum. Many of them
were posted recently in this thread by BigMike:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1031&message=9538061

I have not yet got a macro lense, so my question is how do you get
these detailed close ups with the kit lense - even shots of insects
and spiders in full image size have been posted, I think.

I've made som experiments, but don't get these results yet. I've
turned the lense the other way around - it worked out well, but
difficult to do it this way in the park or in the woods. So some
advices as I wait for a macro lense would be very helpful.

Thanks!

Kjetil

Click to expand...

--
-Jordan

Hi,

The kit lens has quite a good close focus distance, but nowhere near 1:1 magnification. At 55m the maximum magnification is 0.28x. This is close enough for large objects like bumble bees and flowers, but will not fill the frame with small insects such as hoverflies.

To get something near 1:1 (1x) magnification with the kit lens you would need an accessory of sort, such as an extension tube or close up filter.

A 25mm extension tube would give you 0.92x magnification, pretty close to 1:1. A +4 diopter or Canon 250D filter would give about the same magnification. Close up filters are a lot easier to use in the field, because the lens doesn't have to be removed. Both extension tubes and close up filters severely limit the focal range of the lens, you'll loose infinity the maximum focusing distance would become something like 25cm.

The +4 diopter filter is the least expensive option of the two, the Canon 250D is a two element lens and is more expensive, an extension tube (especially if it is a Canon) would be even more expensive.

You will see lots of posters denigrating close up filters, but many haven't used them – they can give very good results. Close up filters don't give good esults in high chromatic abberation situations, otherwise they are fine.

Apart from actually buying a dedicated macro lens, other methods include bellows (really only a studio option but the most flexible method), and reversing another lens onto the front (with one or two lenses).

Brian A.

Kjetil said:

Hi,
I've seen some of the great macro shots in this forum. Many of them
were posted recently in this thread by BigMike:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1031&message=9538061

I have not yet got a macro lense, so my question is how do you get
these detailed close ups with the kit lense - even shots of insects
and spiders in full image size have been posted, I think.

I've made som experiments, but don't get these results yet. I've
turned the lense the other way around - it worked out well, but
difficult to do it this way in the park or in the woods. So some
advices as I wait for a macro lense would be very helpful.

Thanks!

Kjetil

Click to expand...

Here are a couple of macro shots taken with the kit lens and close-up filters (+5).

Kjetil said:

Hi,
I've seen some of the great macro shots in this forum. Many of them
were posted recently in this thread by BigMike:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1031&message=9538061

I have not yet got a macro lense, so my question is how do you get
these detailed close ups with the kit lense - even shots of insects
and spiders in full image size have been posted, I think.

I've made som experiments, but don't get these results yet. I've
turned the lense the other way around - it worked out well, but
difficult to do it this way in the park or in the woods. So some
advices as I wait for a macro lense would be very helpful.

Thanks!

Kjetil

Click to expand...

--
Rich
http://www.pbase.com/dickie/300d_favorites (300D Favorites)
http://www.pbase.com/dickie/macros (300D Macros)
http://www.pbase.com/dickie/favorites (all time favorites)
http://www.pbase.com/dickie/photo_a_day_gallery (Photo a Day Gallery)

Pretty nice man.. thanks for the pics..

you guys just keep making us spend more and more.. then I keep reminding myself.. its not the equipment, its the technique.. arrghh.. I have a long way to go..

pvrnet said:

Here are a couple of macro shots taken with the kit lens and
close-up filters (+5).







--
Rich

Click to expand...

Very encouraging as to the potential of the kit lens. I've been pleased with the kit lens myself. Nice shots. Specifically what close-up diopters(filters) did you use? Brands names please.

pvrnet said:

Kjetil said:

Hi,
I've seen some of the great macro shots in this forum. Many of them
were posted recently in this thread by BigMike:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1031&message=9538061

I have not yet got a macro lense, so my question is how do you get
these detailed close ups with the kit lense - even shots of insects
and spiders in full image size have been posted, I think.

I've made som experiments, but don't get these results yet. I've
turned the lense the other way around - it worked out well, but
difficult to do it this way in the park or in the woods. So some
advices as I wait for a macro lense would be very helpful.

Thanks!

Kjetil

Click to expand...

--
Rich
http://www.pbase.com/dickie/300d_favorites (300D Favorites)
http://www.pbase.com/dickie/macros (300D Macros)
http://www.pbase.com/dickie/favorites (all time favorites)
http://www.pbase.com/dickie/photo_a_day_gallery (Photo a Day Gallery)

Click to expand...

Truely amazing and sharp shots. Do you mind posting a link, maybe a B&H or 17photo.com link to the filters you used.

BobT said:

pvrnet said:

Kjetil said:

Hi,
I've seen some of the great macro shots in this forum. Many of them
were posted recently in this thread by BigMike:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1031&message=9538061

I have not yet got a macro lense, so my question is how do you get
these detailed close ups with the kit lense - even shots of insects
and spiders in full image size have been posted, I think.

I've made som experiments, but don't get these results yet. I've
turned the lense the other way around - it worked out well, but
difficult to do it this way in the park or in the woods. So some
advices as I wait for a macro lense would be very helpful.

Thanks!

Kjetil

Click to expand...

--
Rich
http://www.pbase.com/dickie/300d_favorites (300D Favorites)
http://www.pbase.com/dickie/macros (300D Macros)
http://www.pbase.com/dickie/favorites (all time favorites)
http://www.pbase.com/dickie/photo_a_day_gallery (Photo a Day Gallery)

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
polloloco81
http://www.willowbendstudios.com/
http://www.digitalempiredesign.com/

Many thanks for very helpful answers.

With the excellent examples of the macro capability of the kit lense from pvrnet in mind, the close-up filter solution seems to be a good choice. It's also affordable. I'll check it out in my local store tomorrow.

Kjetil

Kjetil,

Please give us the particulars on the specific close-up filters used. "Inquiring minds want to know". Thanks

Kjetil said:

Hi,
I've seen some of the great macro shots in this forum. Many of them
were posted recently in this thread by BigMike:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1031&message=9538061

I have not yet got a macro lense, so my question is how do you get
these detailed close ups with the kit lense - even shots of insects
and spiders in full image size have been posted, I think.

I've made som experiments, but don't get these results yet. I've
turned the lense the other way around - it worked out well, but
difficult to do it this way in the park or in the woods. So some
advices as I wait for a macro lense would be very helpful.

Thanks!

Kjetil

Click to expand...

Hi, Kjetl,

Kjetil said:

Hi,
I've seen some of the great macro shots in this forum. Many of them
were posted recently in this thread by BigMike:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1031&message=9538061

I have not yet got a macro lense, so my question is how do you get
these detailed close ups with the kit lense - even shots of insects
and spiders in full image size have been posted, I think.

Click to expand...

First, let me note that (as you may know) "full size" (or "1:1") with regard to closeup images can only mean one thing: that the size of the object on the sensor is the same as the size of the object in real life. In the case of the 300D, that would mean that the "frame in space" within which the insect was located was about 22 x 15 mm in size. That may in fact be what is meant for the work you describe.

It is quite practical to increase the maximum magnification of the kit lens (by allowing focsu on objects at closer distances than normal) with the use of extension tubes or with the use of supplementary closeup lenses.

There are, as you may know, two genres of supplementary closeup lenses. The simplest type has a single element, and are often incorrectly called "closeup filters" since their physical appearance is much the same as a filter. The other type is a compound lens, larger and more costly, but supposedly giving better optical performance. (I have no personal experience with either type).

Many extension tubes intended for Canon EF lenses will not mechanically accommodate the kit lens (EF-S) owing to the additional projection at its rear . The newest series of Canon extension tubes (the ones with "II" in their designations) will accommodate the EF-S lens.

It is also quite simple to modify other extension tubes (such as those made by Kenko) to work with the EF-S lens. I have had good results with the kit lens using such modified Kenko extension tubes. I posted a complete report on this in this forum some while ago. (I'm sorry but I do not have a link at hand.)

Rergarding the increase of maximum magnification through the use of an extension tube, the increase over the maximum magnification of the lens in normal use can be calculated thus:

M' = M(1+E/F)

where M' is the maximum magnification with the extension tube in place, M is the naximum magnification without the extension tube, E is the length of the extension tube (in mm), and F is the focal length of the lens (in mm).

Best regards,

Doug

Hi, Hugo,

Thanks for the excellent report. It is very helpful to me, as I have little experience in closeup work.

The copy editor in me impels me to note that. althouhgh it is unfortunately common to call simple single-element supplementary cloesup lenses "filters" (evidently since they have about the physical appearance of a filter), they do not really deserve that name.

Best regards,

Doug

Try this for reversing the lens, if you're good with DIY....

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=007m6Z

would you recommend reversing the kit lens or getting a 4+ macro filter.. filter seems more handy and practical for most outdoor situations..? saw some $20 macro filters on B&H, Adorama etc..

moonsprite_pt said:

Try this for reversing the lens, if you're good with DIY....

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=007m6Z

Click to expand...

Any suggestions? How much do they generally cost? Is there any good vs. bad close-up filters?

From what I understand these filters go between lens and the body. Does it mean they have contact leads or you have to ajust focus/apertature manually? If so, how do you ajust apertature manually on the kit lens?

Thank you

Kjetil said:

Many thanks for very helpful answers.

With the excellent examples of the macro capability of the kit
lense from pvrnet in mind, the close-up filter solution seems to be
a good choice. It's also affordable. I'll check it out in my local
store tomorrow.

Kjetil

Click to expand...

Those pictures rock! Wow!

My son bought a set of 58mm +1, +2 and +4 Promaster close-up filters today when he picked up his new camera bag. I can't wait to try them out on my camera...

Jon.
--
Come visit us on the web!!
http://www.largescale-trains.com

And check our photos out @
http://photobucket.com/albums/v601/jfoster48386/

Close up filters get such a bad rap, but I used them for years when I was younger and couldn't afford tubes or dedicated macro lenses, and got excellent results. At the time the filters weren't even coated, but still produced very acceptable images, without the CA problems that are moooted to appear.

Brian A.

Jon Foster said:

Those pictures rock! Wow!

My son bought a set of 58mm +1, +2 and +4 Promaster close-up
filters today when he picked up his new camera bag. I can't wait to
try them out on my camera...

Jon.
--
Come visit us on the web!!
http://www.largescale-trains.com

And check our photos out @
http://photobucket.com/albums/v601/jfoster48386/

Click to expand...

It was $36.00 for a set of three filters so I figured why not try them out... Here's a shot of him with the +4 filter on his lens adapter with a 52mm to 58mm step up ring (we got the 58mm filters to fit my camera/lenses). The shot is of him trying his first foam core board macro shots.



Jon.
--
Come visit us on the web!!
http://www.largescale-trains.com

And check our photos out @
http://photobucket.com/albums/v601/jfoster48386/