Boardhead
Senior Member
Those trees look horrible! Did breezebrowser do some noise suppression or something? Yuk!
-
Welcome to the new forums! Please read this first. For known issues we are working to resolve, click here.
Linear Workflow and Challenge! (lg imgs)
- Thread starter pbleic
- Start date
I'll definitely be giving this a try... downloading your file right now. Although it doesn't really pertain to what you are looking for here, do you (or anyone) happen to know why, in EVU, I can't change white balance, sharpness, tone, exposure, or anything of those "in-camera" settings like I could with FVU? I can only seem to convert it as in, with no choices. I like being able to set white balance, rather than having to remember when I shoot raws. That's a big draw to raw for me, and either EVU doesn't have it, or I am somehow missing it...
Don
Boardhead
Senior Member
I think the red looks a bit pink-ish in your conversions.
For comparison, here is a straight FVU comversion using the camera settings with only a levels and USM applied afterward in Photoshop.
For comparison, here is a straight FVU comversion using the camera settings with only a levels and USM applied afterward in Photoshop.
There is an obscure menu item for it, or hit and the editing menu pops up.
Paul
------------------------------------------------
Pbase supporter
Photographs at: http://www.pbase.com/pbleic
--------------------------------------------------
Unless specified otherwise, all images are Copyright 2003, 2004 All rights reserved.
--I'll definitely be giving this a try... downloading your file right
now. Although it doesn't really pertain to what you are looking for
here, do you (or anyone) happen to know why, in EVU, I can't change
white balance, sharpness, tone, exposure, or anything of those
"in-camera" settings like I could with FVU? I can only seem to
convert it as in, with no choices. I like being able to set white
balance, rather than having to remember when I shoot raws. That's a
big draw to raw for me, and either EVU doesn't have it, or I am
somehow missing it...
Don
Paul
------------------------------------------------
Pbase supporter
Photographs at: http://www.pbase.com/pbleic
--------------------------------------------------
Unless specified otherwise, all images are Copyright 2003, 2004 All rights reserved.
River Side
Senior Member
- Messages
- 2,068
- Reaction score
- 0
well i prefer the dcraw colors over EVU.. i think EVU renders red either orangish or pinkish.. I didn't play around at all.. but it's easy to just back off saturation and do selective color to get reds.. I have Photoshp 7.0 so can't do 16bit layers.. this was just quick and dirty and trying to be as close as possible to Paul's workflow in EVU.. just to show that dcraw indeed gives 'sharper' results with more accurate colors to my eyes.
I put my money on a curves operation. Breezebrowser doesn't make the trees look like that when I process the raw file without a curves adjustment.
Can you please elaborate? What is it that Photoshop is doing, and how does merging fix it?
I'll say it's obscure... I just went through every menu that I could see, hovered over every button I could hover over, right click on anything I could, and double click everywhere to bring up anything I could, and I STILL can't see any options to change WB or anything like that... could you be a little (LOT) more specific, please?!
Don
"seeing impared"?
Control-T will do it. I don't remember the menu item, but it is there.
Paul
------------------------------------------------
Pbase supporter
Photographs at: http://www.pbase.com/pbleic
--------------------------------------------------
Unless specified otherwise, all images are Copyright 2003, 2004 All rights reserved.
--
Paul
------------------------------------------------
Pbase supporter
Photographs at: http://www.pbase.com/pbleic
--------------------------------------------------
Unless specified otherwise, all images are Copyright 2003, 2004 All rights reserved.
Eyes can be deceptive. Your reds seem to be orange-biased, just like EVU/FVU is known to do. Mine is a bit more "pure red."
Here is yours:
and mine:
--
Paul
------------------------------------------------
Pbase supporter
Photographs at: http://www.pbase.com/pbleic
--------------------------------------------------
Unless specified otherwise, all images are Copyright 2003, 2004 All rights reserved.
Here is yours:
and mine:
--
Paul
------------------------------------------------
Pbase supporter
Photographs at: http://www.pbase.com/pbleic
--------------------------------------------------
Unless specified otherwise, all images are Copyright 2003, 2004 All rights reserved.
ptj
New member
Here is my take on this chellenge.
I've used dcraw and my plugin for gimp to do the conversion. I like my version better (of course !
No sharpening. Spot white balance on the poster, auto adjustment in the plugin, gamma 0.45, slight adjustments in the curves tool (darken shadows and extreme highlights, brighten midtones). Thats it.
The plugin is at http://ptj.rozeta.com.pl/Soft/RawPhoto/
Here are the results:
Full: (original)
Full: (my)
Hand: (orig)
Hand: (my)
Tassle: (orig)
Tassle: (my)
Trees: (orig)
Trees: (my)
The choice is yours!
--
Pawel
I've used dcraw and my plugin for gimp to do the conversion. I like my version better (of course !
No sharpening. Spot white balance on the poster, auto adjustment in the plugin, gamma 0.45, slight adjustments in the curves tool (darken shadows and extreme highlights, brighten midtones). Thats it.
The plugin is at http://ptj.rozeta.com.pl/Soft/RawPhoto/
Here are the results:
Full: (original)
Full: (my)
Hand: (orig)
Hand: (my)
Tassle: (orig)
Tassle: (my)
Trees: (orig)
Trees: (my)
The choice is yours!
--
Pawel
So what? I doubt the tassle is really pure red. I think that maybe this sample image is a poor one for the challenge because the correct colors are unknown.
Eyes can be deceptive. Your reds seem to be orange-biased, just
like EVU/FVU is known to do. Mine is a bit more "pure red."
Here is yours:
and mine:
--
Paul
------------------------------------------------
Pbase supporter
Photographs at: http://www.pbase.com/pbleic
--------------------------------------------------
Unless specified otherwise, all images are Copyright 2003, 2004
All rights reserved.
This is my go at it using dcraw and photoshop with the profiles from aim-dtp.net
Note that I didn't really spend much time with this picture. Just some basic stuff I also noted the original is not fully sharp, but a bit soft. It could be sharper to start with so that counts as far as artifacts goes since it requires more sharpening which in turn brings artifacts out more.
Note that I didn't really spend much time with this picture. Just some basic stuff
I also noted the original is not fully sharp, but a bit soft. It could be sharper to start with so that counts as far as artifacts goes since it requires more sharpening which in turn brings artifacts out more.
Gee, I think the photo is pretty sharp, actually.
I STARTED with the aim profiles, and could never get them to work. Colors and contrast was always dull, as it is here. I thought that Timo would be enthusiastic, but when he replied to my email he told me the same thing that others have - you need a profile to get accurate colors. If not, they may be in the "ballpark," but not good enough for quality.
Paul
Paul
------------------------------------------------
Pbase supporter
Photographs at: http://www.pbase.com/pbleic
--------------------------------------------------
Unless specified otherwise, all images are Copyright 2003, 2004 All rights reserved.
I STARTED with the aim profiles, and could never get them to work. Colors and contrast was always dull, as it is here. I thought that Timo would be enthusiastic, but when he replied to my email he told me the same thing that others have - you need a profile to get accurate colors. If not, they may be in the "ballpark," but not good enough for quality.
Paul
--This is my go at it using dcraw and photoshop with the profiles
from aim-dtp.net
Note that I didn't really spend much time with this picture. Just
some basic stuff
but a bit soft. It could be sharper to start with so that counts as
far as artifacts goes since it requires more sharpening which in
turn brings artifacts out more.
Paul
------------------------------------------------
Pbase supporter
Photographs at: http://www.pbase.com/pbleic
--------------------------------------------------
Unless specified otherwise, all images are Copyright 2003, 2004 All rights reserved.
lec_eos
Well-known member
I am getting the best results with Non Linear Conversion than Linear by using BreezeBrowser 2.8.
Pictures are below:
http://genji.image.pbase.com/u46/lec_d30/upload/29718187.CRW_3972Full.jpg
http://genji.image.pbase.com/u46/lec_d30/upload/29718188.CRW_3972CropHand.jpg
http://genji.image.pbase.com/u46/lec_d30/upload/29718189.CRW_3972Shoulder.jpg
http://genji.image.pbase.com/u46/lec_d30/upload/29718190.CRW_3972Tree.jpg
Regards,
lec_EOS
Pictures are below:
http://genji.image.pbase.com/u46/lec_d30/upload/29718187.CRW_3972Full.jpg
http://genji.image.pbase.com/u46/lec_d30/upload/29718188.CRW_3972CropHand.jpg
http://genji.image.pbase.com/u46/lec_d30/upload/29718189.CRW_3972Shoulder.jpg
http://genji.image.pbase.com/u46/lec_d30/upload/29718190.CRW_3972Tree.jpg
Regards,
lec_EOS
After much agony, I have decided on a linear workflow. Dcraw has
too much moire and zipper artifacts. I am starting with an EVU/FVU
linear raw file:
1. Make a linear raw file, 16 bit, TIFF. Unfortunately, they both
require either sRGB or AdobeRGB to be tagged to the file. Assign
the profile that is DIFFERENT from your working profile in PS.
2. Open the file in PS. When it opens you will get this dialog:
Click the last, don't color manage.
3. Assign the 10D linear profile:
http://home.comcast.net/~ajpacheco/Canon10DXLProfilerSDKL.zip
through this dialog:
4. Pull the white point ONLY in on levels to the leftmost data like
this:
5. Pull the middle point of the curves dialog out to the left at 45
degrees to adjust contrast and exposure:
6. Add saturation to taste.
7. USM, I use about 400/0.4/threshold 3
8. Convert to sRGB with Adobe/No Blackpoint compensation.
Done.
Now, for the challenge. Take this RAW file:
http://bleicher.home.comcast.net/Images/CRW_3972.CRW
and, using nothing more than levels/curves/saturation/USM, get
better results than these with any RAW convertor. You have to post
the exact same crops as these three. First the overall photo, then
the crops:
--
Paul
------------------------------------------------
Pbase supporter
Photographs at: http://www.pbase.com/pbleic
--------------------------------------------------
Unless specified otherwise, all images are Copyright 2003, 2004
All rights reserved.
@jp
Active member
How about Breezebrowser 2.9 and/or combined mode?
There isn't anybody around these parts who knows color better than Magne Nilsen. He posted in the 10D forum recently concerning the various raw conversion tools. Here is part of his post:
"I don't think dcraw was even meant as a complete conversion engine, it is primarily about decompiling the RAW format. It's built-in debayering methods are included more as an example than anything that has ANY commercial or real life merit. Feed it a black and white resolution chart, and watch the rainbow-like colors and show me one customer willing to pay for that kind of quality. Or look at the horrible edges you get - with zipper effects and false colors all over. Debayering in the year 2004 has come a looong way after that, but the few good ones are either completely unknown to the public, or totally proprietary. If you really know how to define debayering quality and then know what to look for - Canons de-bayering, as implemented in FVU and EVU is IMO technically the best there is - so far. Nikon is clearly behind, PSCS is closer, but not quite there. C1 debayering is OK - but different, and a bit hard to pick apart, since it is not possible to turn sharpening of edges completely off, and the same with it's blurring of flat areas."
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=8985262
PS - I had the opportunity to see a BW resolution chart that dcraw debayered - it was ugly - moire, red, blue, etc.
This is why I switched back to FVU/EVU for the linear data.
Paul
--
Paul
------------------------------------------------
Pbase supporter
Photographs at: http://www.pbase.com/pbleic
--------------------------------------------------
Unless specified otherwise, all images are Copyright 2003, 2004 All rights reserved.
"I don't think dcraw was even meant as a complete conversion engine, it is primarily about decompiling the RAW format. It's built-in debayering methods are included more as an example than anything that has ANY commercial or real life merit. Feed it a black and white resolution chart, and watch the rainbow-like colors and show me one customer willing to pay for that kind of quality. Or look at the horrible edges you get - with zipper effects and false colors all over. Debayering in the year 2004 has come a looong way after that, but the few good ones are either completely unknown to the public, or totally proprietary. If you really know how to define debayering quality and then know what to look for - Canons de-bayering, as implemented in FVU and EVU is IMO technically the best there is - so far. Nikon is clearly behind, PSCS is closer, but not quite there. C1 debayering is OK - but different, and a bit hard to pick apart, since it is not possible to turn sharpening of edges completely off, and the same with it's blurring of flat areas."
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=8985262
PS - I had the opportunity to see a BW resolution chart that dcraw debayered - it was ugly - moire, red, blue, etc.
This is why I switched back to FVU/EVU for the linear data.
Paul
--
Paul
------------------------------------------------
Pbase supporter
Photographs at: http://www.pbase.com/pbleic
--------------------------------------------------
Unless specified otherwise, all images are Copyright 2003, 2004 All rights reserved.
@jp
Active member
Thanks for the info, I have Magnes profiles for C1Rebel (do they work in LE?). He should be a reliable source as you say, after all he's Scandinavian isn't he? 
Surely, sharpening can be disabled in C1 can't it or is he talking about something else?
Thanks for all your RAW effort...
Jesper
Surely, sharpening can be disabled in C1 can't it or is he talking about something else?
Thanks for all your RAW effort...
Jesper
In case anyone wants to do a search, the name is Magne Nilsen, and his website is http://www.etcetera.cc .
Surely, sharpening can be disabled in C1 can't it or is he talking
about something else?
Thanks for all your RAW effort...
Jesper
bjs1
Forum Enthusiast
While I'm still not sure what we're proving, the different approaches are certainly interesting.
In a side by side comparison of FYap (dcraw variant), bjs1 (C1 Rebel variant), pbleic (EVU/FVU linear) and Boardhead (FVU) it seems to me that pbleic's method performs the worst in terms of highlights/dynamic range. Compare the last tree image of pbelics versus FYap or bjs1. Pbleic's version has blown out most of the small branches, there is a dramatic difference in highlight detail.
Pbleics colors are also somewhat unique. For example, the red tassle tends toward pink and the jacket is more green compared to the others.
Boardhead and bjs1 use a dead simple approach compared to Fyap and pbleic. I'm not seeing the return on the extra effort but maybe I don't know what to look for.
In a side by side comparison of FYap (dcraw variant), bjs1 (C1 Rebel variant), pbleic (EVU/FVU linear) and Boardhead (FVU) it seems to me that pbleic's method performs the worst in terms of highlights/dynamic range. Compare the last tree image of pbelics versus FYap or bjs1. Pbleic's version has blown out most of the small branches, there is a dramatic difference in highlight detail.
Pbleics colors are also somewhat unique. For example, the red tassle tends toward pink and the jacket is more green compared to the others.
Boardhead and bjs1 use a dead simple approach compared to Fyap and pbleic. I'm not seeing the return on the extra effort but maybe I don't know what to look for.
Keyboard shortcuts
- f
- Forum