C1 LE New version DOWNGRADE??

drewn · May 27, 2004

Hi forum

According to the product specs, the new version 3.5 of C1 LE released today will NOT, I repeat not, include conversion to 16 Bit.. For that privilege you have to shell out another £149 for the SE version...

In adittion, The $29 'upgrade' STILL does not wholly correct the neon/ yellow/ green bug issues. We'll have to wait till October (?) for that...

LE users are being squeezed and IMO 10D users unfairly treated.

I suggest you check out the info at http://www.pictureflow.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=27#

and if, like myself you feel cheated, register your complaints in the feedback section.

It could be time to find a RAW conversion alternative.

Drew

drewn · May 27, 2004

...It also appears that 3rd party camera profiles is also gone from the 3.5 versions of both LE and SE. So you will be unable to use existing Etcetera profiles with the new upgrades

What's going on here ?!!

drewn said:
Hi forum

According to the product specs, the new version 3.5 of C1 LE
released today will NOT, I repeat not, include conversion to 16
Bit.. For that privilege you have to shell out another £149 for the
SE version...

In adittion, The $29 'upgrade' STILL does not wholly correct the
neon/ yellow/ green bug issues. We'll have to wait till October (?)
for that...

LE users are being squeezed and IMO 10D users unfairly treated.

I suggest you check out the info at
http://www.pictureflow.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=27#

and if, like myself you feel cheated, register your complaints in
the feedback section.

It could be time to find a RAW conversion alternative.

Drew

Matt Almaraz · May 27, 2004

Drew,

I am also very concerned and angered by Phase One's choice to remove 16bit output and 3rd party color profiles. They are effectively downgrading the product but promoting it as an upgrade and charging 29 dollars for it! Also beware that anyone who does upgrade to C1LE 3.5 must turn over there old key and it will be deactivated, giving you no option to go back to 1.3.1.
-Matt

drewn said:
What's going on here ?!!

drewn said:

Hi forum

According to the product specs, the new version 3.5 of C1 LE
released today will NOT, I repeat not, include conversion to 16
Bit.. For that privilege you have to shell out another £149 for the
SE version...

In adittion, The $29 'upgrade' STILL does not wholly correct the
neon/ yellow/ green bug issues. We'll have to wait till October (?)
for that...

LE users are being squeezed and IMO 10D users unfairly treated.

I suggest you check out the info at
http://www.pictureflow.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=27#

and if, like myself you feel cheated, register your complaints in
the feedback section.

It could be time to find a RAW conversion alternative.

Drew

Click to expand...

Diane B · May 27, 2004

drewn said:
Hi forum

According to the product specs, the new version 3.5 of C1 LE
released today will NOT, I repeat not, include conversion to 16
Bit.. For that privilege you have to shell out another £149 for the
SE version...

In adittion, The $29 'upgrade' STILL does not wholly correct the
neon/ yellow/ green bug issues. We'll have to wait till October (?)
for that...

LE users are being squeezed and IMO 10D users unfairly treated.

I suggest you check out the info at
http://www.pictureflow.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=27#

and if, like myself you feel cheated, register your complaints in
the feedback section.

It could be time to find a RAW conversion alternative.

Drew

I read the thread. To be truthful, I've never upgraded to 1.3 from 1.2. When that upgrade came out, there were a lot of people that seemed unhappy, so I just stuck with what I used and found excellent--with Magne's profiles for D30, D60 and 10D. It appears that I won't really gain anything that I can see by upgrading to the new one either--nothing that benefits me much. I noted that old versions would not be supported--I'm wondering if that means if/when I have to reload, it will be possible with the keys I have.

BTW, I do have Breezebrowser and PSCS, so my alternatives are in place--but I really do prefer C1LE.
--
Diane B
black and white lover, but color is seducing me
http://www.pbase.com/picnic/galleries

Diane B · May 27, 2004

drewn said:
...It also appears that 3rd party camera profiles is also gone from
the 3.5 versions of both LE and SE. So you will be unable to use
existing Etcetera profiles with the new upgrades

As I noted, I didn't even upgrade to 1.3 after I saw complaints--and since 1.2 does what I need. I also use Magne's profiles--all 3 for the D30, D60, and 10D---and am not willing to give them up since they work very well for me.

--
Diane B
black and white lover, but color is seducing me
http://www.pbase.com/picnic/galleries

MichaelT · May 27, 2004

Through some regretable internal errors there has been discussion and publication that third party profiles will not be supported in LE or SE. This will be corrected by next week at latest.

P1 is always responsive to user input so voice any converns about the release at the support forum, and they will surely be heard. There at a minumum will be a release in June that adds Olympus support, and it is possible that other things could be added as well. I cannot promise, but like I said P1 has always been repsonsive in the past.

Also there are special LE and REBEL upgrades to SE until June 30.
--
Regards,

Michael Tapes
Capture One DSLR Product Group
http://www.RawWorkflow.com
http://www.michaeltapes.com

Doug Morgan · May 27, 2004

Michael:

Notably absent from your post is any mention of limiting LE to 8 bits. Is this true?

Doug

MichaelT said:
Through some regretable internal errors there has been discussion
and publication that third party profiles will not be supported in
LE or SE. This will be corrected by next week at latest.

P1 is always responsive to user input so voice any converns about
the release at the support forum, and they will surely be heard.
There at a minumum will be a release in June that adds Olympus
support, and it is possible that other things could be added as
well. I cannot promise, but like I said P1 has always been
repsonsive in the past.

Also there are special LE and REBEL upgrades to SE until June 30.
--
Regards,

Michael Tapes
Capture One DSLR Product Group
http://www.RawWorkflow.com
http://www.michaeltapes.com

MichaelT · May 27, 2004

Doug Morgan said:
Michael:
Notably absent from your post is any mention of limiting LE to 8
bits. Is this true?

It is true for now. I am working on it. LEt your voices be heard.
--
Regards,

Michael Tapes
Capture One DSLR Product Group
http://www.RawWorkflow.com
http://www.michaeltapes.com

Michel26604 · May 27, 2004

...or: don't upgrade at all, which I intend to do.

Instead of making some money on me from upgrading to a sensible next step that is worth it's money, they don't make any at all. I must say I've rather had it with their priority of (not) solving bugs, their sales pitch and pricing strategy.

Their loss...

drewn said:
Hi forum

According to the product specs, the new version 3.5 of C1 LE
released today will NOT, I repeat not, include conversion to 16
Bit.. For that privilege you have to shell out another £149 for the
SE version...

In adittion, The $29 'upgrade' STILL does not wholly correct the
neon/ yellow/ green bug issues. We'll have to wait till October (?)
for that...

LE users are being squeezed and IMO 10D users unfairly treated.

I suggest you check out the info at
http://www.pictureflow.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=27#

and if, like myself you feel cheated, register your complaints in
the feedback section.

It could be time to find a RAW conversion alternative.

Drew

--
gr. Michel
http://www.yourimage.nl

markE59102 · May 27, 2004

Doug Morgan said:
Michael:
Notably absent from your post is any mention of limiting LE to 8
bits. Is this true?

I was just about to purchase the product for my new 10D, but now I am completely turned off.

If this is true, and Michael doesn't change it, I'll just be upgrading my PS 7 to CS very soon.

--

markE

http://www.wingsoflight.com

pbase supporter

MichaelT · May 27, 2004

markE59102 said:
I was just about to purchase the product for my new 10D, but now I
am completely turned off.
If this is true, and Michael doesn't change it, I'll just be
upgrading my PS 7 to CS very soon.

--

markE

http://www.wingsoflight.com

pbase supporter

I understand your feeling, but let's let this play out before you give up on C1. It is still the best regardless of these release snafus, so give me a little time to see what I can do. I appreciate your frustration, but I appreciate your paitence even more :> )

--
Regards,

Michael Tapes
Senior Product Manager C1 RAW Workflow - Phase One
http://www.RawWorkflow.com

J A K · May 27, 2004

MichaelT said:
Doug Morgan said:

Michael:
Notably absent from your post is any mention of limiting LE to 8
bits. Is this true?

Click to expand...

It is true for now. I am working on it. LEt your voices be heard.

Michael, I don't currently use your program (but I've been thinking about it). This post is kind of shocking; I'm surprised by the decision to exclude 16-bit computations from the current release.

Regardless of your marketing decision to exclude 16-bit computation from the current release, I would like to know (1) if there is any Version 3.x that actually supports 16 bit computations (plus 3rd party profiles) and (2) can I activate the software "today" using an older version for my install?

Thanks in advance for your reply.

Regards,

Joe Kurkjian, Pbase Supporter

http://www.pbase.com/jkurkjia

SEARCHING FOR A BETTER SELF PORTRAIT

Don Race · May 27, 2004

It's obvious from this release of C1 LE 3.5 that money is more of a concern than consideration for existing customers. What was P1 thinking by removing existing features and then charging existing clients for the downgrade without the ability to revert to the prior version. It looks to me that their long term goal was to suck people into a lower end product and then force them all to upgrade to the higher end... the unfair business practice of bait and switch. What other major software vendor do you know has done the same thing? Right off hand I don't know of one until now.

I'm associated with a software development company that has several products. This company would never ever consider such a move as the back lash would be overwhelming as will be the case with this decision by P1. Rule #1 in business is to "Never forget your old customers" as they were the ones that got you where you are in the market place. Also statistics show that a significant % of a company's revenue comes from existing clients and you surely don't want to rock that boat!

I really like the product but unless there is a reversal in policy on P1's part in regards to LE I will be forced consider other alternatives such as PS CRW.

drewn said:
Hi forum

According to the product specs, the new version 3.5 of C1 LE
released today will NOT, I repeat not, include conversion to 16
Bit.. For that privilege you have to shell out another £149 for the
SE version...

In adittion, The $29 'upgrade' STILL does not wholly correct the
neon/ yellow/ green bug issues. We'll have to wait till October (?)
for that...

LE users are being squeezed and IMO 10D users unfairly treated.

I suggest you check out the info at
http://www.pictureflow.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=27#

and if, like myself you feel cheated, register your complaints in
the feedback section.

It could be time to find a RAW conversion alternative.

Drew

Ed Rotberg · May 27, 2004

Michael,

OK, let me add my voice here. I've had C1 LE for less than a year (bought my 10D in July last year), so I believe that I'm still in line for a free "upgrade". Let me flatly state that I won't even bother if 16-bit output is removed from C1 LE. This is a no brainer. I understand you need differentiation between product that you make, but allow me to read between the lines of your recent posts:

Begin conjecture: It appears that your marketing group has made the decision to cripple C1 LE in order to promote more upgrades/crossgrades to SE and PRO. More speculation leads to an assumption that SE was not the smash hit that marketing had expected it to be (I always felt that SE was an ill-though out product spec'd out by a marketing idiot) and in order to justify THEIR decision to create this product, they need to increase its sales. End Conjecture.

The fact that most of the hobbyists out here (and I'd venture to guess that there are more of us than pros) have a pain point at $100 for single-purpose software has not entered into their pathetic, tiny, little, marketing brains.

I know I'm being hard on them but consider - You have sold LE as a solution to hobbyists that will allow them to - among other things - get 16-bit output. People bouhgt in - for many of us it is because of that 16-bit output. Now you are prepared to TAKE AWAY an important feature and offer us a "special" upgrade price to spend even more money. This is simply bad marketing and I strongly suspect the motiviations behind this decision.

Please, please, PLEASE make this go away. It will leave an awful taste in folks' mouths. The only other software company that I would credit with the temerity to pull such a stunt is Microsoft. Even Adobe has never pulled anything like this.

I'm rambling, I know, but I'm also outraged by this decision. I sincerely hope that folks at P1 will reconsider what I feel is a horrible move.

= Ed =

MichaelT said:
MichaelT said:

I was just about to purchase the product for my new 10D, but now I
am completely turned off.
If this is true, and Michael doesn't change it, I'll just be
upgrading my PS 7 to CS very soon.

--

markE

http://www.wingsoflight.com

pbase supporter

Click to expand...

I understand your feeling, but let's let this play out before you
give up on C1. It is still the best regardless of these release
snafus, so give me a little time to see what I can do. I appreciate
your frustration, but I appreciate your paitence even more :> )

--
Regards,

Michael Tapes
Senior Product Manager C1 RAW Workflow - Phase One
http://www.RawWorkflow.com

--
= Ed Rotberg =

'A waist is a terrible thing to mind'
http://www.edrotberg.org/gallery

Greg Brakefield · May 27, 2004

To MichaelIT,

I know that you are not the one responsible for the decision to limit LE to 8bit - that lies with PhaseOne. BUT....

There are a lot of 10D owners (like myself) that purchased LE for $99 and CANNOT get YELLOWS and GREENS without the "neon" effect. We told that this was due to code/processing errors of C1 and were also told that it would be corrected in the next major C1 release. After waiting months and months, we find out that if we wanted the next release (that "should" correct the "neon" problem) we would have to PAY an UPGRADE price.

The thought that I would have to PAY more to get a functioning version of something that never worked right in the first place REALLY irritated me. This is an EXTREMELY poor business practice that PhaseOne has adopted. But after a I calmed down, I decided to overlook that and get the upgrade once it came available.

Now I'm told that with this supposed UPGRADE I'm going to LOOSE 16bit output. AND EVEN WORSE .... the latest thing I read on your rawworkflow forum was that the "neon" problem was STILL not COMPLETELY corrected and that it wouldn't be until late this year!!!!! HOW MUCH WILL THAT COST?

What kind of Business Practice is this???

Please note that I would have liked to post links to the actual rawworkflow forums which referenced my above comments, but it looks as though your site is down for maintainence (I intend to post this message as soon as it is back up).

I sincerely hope that you pass this on to the PhaseOne so that they can understand just how SATISFIED ther CUSTOMERS really are.

GREG

Diane B · May 27, 2004

Firstly, I really really like C1LE--and use it with 3rd party profiles of Magne for all my camera bodies. I will not give it up--but perhaps will not be able to upgrade either since 16 bit is important. I will add my voice to others on the RAWworkflow site to retain 16 bit in the upgrade to LE.

Secondly--Michael has always been very responsive and I'm sure he's putting in his opinion on this and will try to work with all of us. AFAI'm concerned, he and Chris Breeze are 2 of the really 'good guys' and I have tried to support both (for those of you who don't know or remember, Michael developed Yarc Plus before his affiliation with P1 and Chris Breeze developed Breezebrowser and other software and continues to upgrade it--oh, lets add Magne Nilsen to this good guy list too. There are certainly others--but we're talking RAW 'stuff').

I say sit tight and see what happens before raising a hew and cry--or maybe we DO need to raise a hew and cry LOL--perhaps the squeaky wheel theory would be helpful here.

Diane
--
Diane B
black and white lover, but color is seducing me
http://www.pbase.com/picnic/galleries

Don Race · May 27, 2004

I think most everyone realizes that Michael T. and rawworkflow.com is backing existing customer on this issue. P1 needs to understand in a straight forward manner the seriousness of their actions as there will most certainly be a negative backlash unless this is turned around quickly.

Diane B said:
Firstly, I really really like C1LE--and use it with 3rd party
profiles of Magne for all my camera bodies. I will not give it
up--but perhaps will not be able to upgrade either since 16 bit is
important. I will add my voice to others on the RAWworkflow site
to retain 16 bit in the upgrade to LE.

Secondly--Michael has always been very responsive and I'm sure he's
putting in his opinion on this and will try to work with all of us.
AFAI'm concerned, he and Chris Breeze are 2 of the really 'good
guys' and I have tried to support both (for those of you who don't
know or remember, Michael developed Yarc Plus before his
affiliation with P1 and Chris Breeze developed Breezebrowser and
other software and continues to upgrade it--oh, lets add Magne
Nilsen to this good guy list too. There are certainly others--but
we're talking RAW 'stuff').

I say sit tight and see what happens before raising a hew and
cry--or maybe we DO need to raise a hew and cry LOL--perhaps the
squeaky wheel theory would be helpful here.

Diane
--
Diane B
black and white lover, but color is seducing me
http://www.pbase.com/picnic/galleries

Diane B · May 27, 2004

Don Race said:
I think most everyone realizes that Michael T. and rawworkflow.com
is backing existing customer on this issue. P1 needs to understand
in a straight forward manner the seriousness of their actions as
there will most certainly be a negative backlash unless this is
turned around quickly.

I do agree on that--and its such good software that I would hate to see that happen. People getting ready to purchase C1LE will be put off by 'negative press' so to speak, and there's no better (or worse) place for that to occur than on a widely read digital photo forum.

Diane
--
Diane B
black and white lover, but color is seducing me
http://www.pbase.com/picnic/galleries

Doug Morgan · May 27, 2004

MichaelT said:
Doug Morgan said:

Michael:
Notably absent from your post is any mention of limiting LE to 8
bits. Is this true?

Click to expand...

It is true for now. I am working on it. LEt your voices be heard.
--
Regards,

Michael Tapes
Capture One DSLR Product Group
http://www.RawWorkflow.com
http://www.michaeltapes.com

James Stangroom · May 27, 2004

I guess I timed my purchase of C1 LE just right... I bought the software over the weekend - before the recent "upgrade" was released.

I was impressed with the 15 day trial and decided to take the plunge. I have always been shooting RAW but my workflow invloved the Canon software. Needless to say, C1 is a big improvement on this.

A selling point was the free upgrade period, which I won't be taking advantage of unless the v.3.5 release mess gets sorted out. It really would be a "downgrade" more than anything.

I can guarantee you that I wouldn't have purchased C1 had I not snuck in just before 3.5 was released. And while I love the software, I likely won't bother with them again unless they show more commitment to their customers and correct their oversight.

I'm a marketing major, and I understand what they're trying to do. Any business wants to "encourage" upgrades because it means more profit. Nobody can fault them for that. But it has been poorly executed and the consequence is that their customers are feeling cheated. Alienating customers is always a bad thing, and with Photoshop gaining popularity as a RAW coversion alternative (not to mention a full imaging product), the timing couldn't have been worse.

Hopefully they remember that the people purchasing the LE version will eventually consider upgrading to more advanced (and more expensive) versions as our needs change. But not with a bad taste in our mouths...

James

--
http://www.jcsphoto.ca
Personal portfolio in progress. Feedback appreciated!

C1 LE New version DOWNGRADE??

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