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Backfocus Poll -150 messages limit reached.
- Thread starter KiwiD70
- Start date
And, incidentally, far more probable.
This poll is pointless, ill conceived, and proves absolutely nothing. The originator of the thread obviously knows even less about statistics then photography, which is quite a feat.
Brian Mcdonnell
Forum Enthusiast
I can see several distinct problems with your informal poll:
1. Since there was no standardized testing of the BF-suspect cameras, all the poll can show is how many people think they have BF, not how many actually do have it.
2. Since there is a 150 post limit, you have no idea how many people don't think they have BF.
3. You have absolutely no idea how many members there are on the D70 forum, nor how many of those own D70 cameras.
In absence of "informal" data for points 2 and 3, you cannot calculate Nikon's rate of failure for the D70, nor can you issue any comments about Nikon's QC. If you do, be advised you're no better than the garden-variety troll.
ad in md
PS: I hope you recognize the title as a clumsy attempt at paraphrasing Mark Twain, and not as an insult.
1. Since there was no standardized testing of the BF-suspect cameras, all the poll can show is how many people think they have BF, not how many actually do have it.
2. Since there is a 150 post limit, you have no idea how many people don't think they have BF.
3. You have absolutely no idea how many members there are on the D70 forum, nor how many of those own D70 cameras.
In absence of "informal" data for points 2 and 3, you cannot calculate Nikon's rate of failure for the D70, nor can you issue any comments about Nikon's QC. If you do, be advised you're no better than the garden-variety troll.
ad in md
PS: I hope you recognize the title as a clumsy attempt at paraphrasing Mark Twain, and not as an insult.
Mikhail Bogdanov
Veteran Member
It starts to be really annoying. I don't understand why every single day somebody is trying to stir this BF BS up.
Brian Mcdonnell
Forum Enthusiast
But, as we all know, photographers are seriously lacking in self-confidence. I presume this is why you felt the need to post this? You have some decent shots, and assuming you are a photographer, shouldn't that be expected?
If a pat on the back is what you need, please consider yourself patted.
Brian
If a pat on the back is what you need, please consider yourself patted.
Brian
You talk the talk, can you walk the walk? (Stanley Kubrick, I
could'nt resist)
Heres some of mine...
Still think I don't know what depth of field is? I've tought
photography you Dolt!
Paolo Pizzi
Veteran Member
Whatever you say, your bias is pretty obvious.
------------------------------------------------
'Everything should be made as
simple as possible, but no simpler.'
(Albert Einstein)
- Equipment list in profile.
Thanks Paolo, I really appreciate a random stranger labelling me an idiot.
Here's my experience...
I was unsure as to the performance of my camera, so took it back to the shop to have my mind put at rest that it was me at fault. I could quite happily live with that if the shop could give me advice on what to do.
The shop tested, and found the camera was at fault. Their technicial couldn't get the manual focus to work as expected either.
The camera went to Nikon UK.
Nikon UK confirmed the fault, and will recalibrate this week.
Sure, I can close the lens down, but that really isn't the point is it? I bought a top quality camera; I will happily work around it if I have to, but I really think it should be performing better than it is, as do the UK's largest Nikon repair centre and as do Nikon UK themselves.
So, I'm an idiot, Fixation are idiots and Nikon UK are idiots.
Why such vitriolic language from you? My camera has a problem. Yours doesn't. I'm chuffed to bits for you.
Nick.
H
Hans Keesom
Guest
Thank you Ad for pointing this out. I hope you have more succes than all others that have tried to explain this. But they just keep on coming.
Interesting enough, many have only recently joined DPReview.
Maybe it is because a large percentage is not so experienced in interpreting information on this forum and on discussion groups in general that these B/F threads get's so wild and ill logical.
What can we do, I guess just wait untill things blow over and go to the pro-forum in the meantime, leaving this forum to slow down and mature over time.
Maybe, maybe, maybe, I have no data to back me up. It's just a feeling
Interesting enough, many have only recently joined DPReview.
Maybe it is because a large percentage is not so experienced in interpreting information on this forum and on discussion groups in general that these B/F threads get's so wild and ill logical.
What can we do, I guess just wait untill things blow over and go to the pro-forum in the meantime, leaving this forum to slow down and mature over time.
Maybe, maybe, maybe, I have no data to back me up. It's just a feeling
Paolo Pizzi
Veteran Member
--
------------------------------------------------
'Everything should be made as
simple as possible, but no simpler.'
(Albert Einstein)
- Equipment list in profile.
CIASpook
Veteran Member
If you're gonna make analogy, make an appropiate one! Gas tanks exploding is equal to back focus? How about something simpler like a seatbelt buckle that is more difficult to operate than normal or a parking brake that disengages on its own? Minor things that are easily corrected.
Back focus is a minor issue. Quit bitching about it and have your camera serviced. You're only wasting your own time coming in here and demanding that Nikon makes sure all future cameras are ok. How does that help you? You still have a camera not working. GO FIX IT! That's what warranties are for!
A bunch of you people are running around screaming the sky is falling not realizing that you have to do is go indoors and you'll be fine. If your camera does not work properly, have it fixed. If they can't fix it making it unusable for you, go by one of the many other dSLRs that are out there on the market.
I know I know, you really want a Nikon because it's Nikon and the price is really good, blah blah. But if all that is not giving you the tool you need to do your work or be as creative as you wish to be, what good is the price or it being a Nikon? If you can't use it, it's worthless! Go get something you can use!
Back focus is a minor issue. Quit bitching about it and have your camera serviced. You're only wasting your own time coming in here and demanding that Nikon makes sure all future cameras are ok. How does that help you? You still have a camera not working. GO FIX IT! That's what warranties are for!
A bunch of you people are running around screaming the sky is falling not realizing that you have to do is go indoors and you'll be fine. If your camera does not work properly, have it fixed. If they can't fix it making it unusable for you, go by one of the many other dSLRs that are out there on the market.
I know I know, you really want a Nikon because it's Nikon and the price is really good, blah blah. But if all that is not giving you the tool you need to do your work or be as creative as you wish to be, what good is the price or it being a Nikon? If you can't use it, it's worthless! Go get something you can use!
If you are happy with 2 1/2% of what you buy neededing to be
returned or repaired, thats OK by me, but I'm not! Oh by the way,
would you be happy if 2 1/2% of the cars on sale had a minor fuel
tank defect that caused them to explode? Shouldn't be an
issue,after all you could always exchange, return for repair or
refund.................
Cheers.....
If u got a defective camera return it for repair,exchange it, or
get a refund.
Is there another solution that i missed ?
Regards
Paul L.
--
D70 Kit/1GB CF Ultra II
Yes,but unlike some I don't assume all who think they have b/f are fools or mistaken. There are enough examples of Nikon agreeing there is a fault to show that there is a problem.
It doesn't matter how many don't have a problem, to indicate a problem exists!
I stated I was making an assumption!!! But a reasonable one I think, Based on 300,000 manufactured and elivered to distributors, less than that sold, its hard to beleive that there are more than 1% of worldwide D70 users posting onthe D70 forum!
Simple, if you make an expensie autofocus camera, and cameras leave the factory that don't autofocus correctly, you have a QC problem.
Also never forget that almost everyone has more than the average number of legs... (I guess the average is around 1.9 something, allowing for one legged and no legged peple)
It proves:
a/ some people think argumentum ad hominem is their best defence
b/ Those wthout problems for some reason want to deny that others have them.The one thing you cannot deny is someone else's experience. You weren't there, you can't deny it.
c/there are quite a number of D70's with focus issues, and issues that ARE ACCEPTED BY NIKON (in some parts of the world)
CIASpook
Veteran Member
Nick, Paolo was not refering to you. Obviously you were smart enough to have the camera checked and then serviced rather than troll around forums begging for attention because you found a defect.
HammersFan
Forum Enthusiast
Hello Paolo,
It has nothing to do with your name Paolo, it was based purely on the attitude I was reading in your posts. I live in New Zealand, and would not have the foggiest idea, based on someones name where they were from. I read many posts on here from people who may not have english as a first language, and I truly enjoy reading their posts, if they are interesting. I couldn't give a monkeys if their grammar is not spot on.
Ends
It has nothing to do with your name Paolo, it was based purely on the attitude I was reading in your posts. I live in New Zealand, and would not have the foggiest idea, based on someones name where they were from. I read many posts on here from people who may not have english as a first language, and I truly enjoy reading their posts, if they are interesting. I couldn't give a monkeys if their grammar is not spot on.
Ends
Paolo Pizzi
Veteran Member
This is what you wrote:
"I'd say more than 2.5% have a poor vocabulary and
an even poorer control of their tempers."
So, evidently it DOES bother you when you believe
someone is mangling YOUR language... Did you think
I would forget your rant against those "guilty" of not
speaking English as their first language and inflicting so
much pain on your ultra-sensitive highly-educated ears
with their "poor vocabulary"?
BTW, English is also MY first language, but evidently
some people can't grasp the concept that someone
can have a non-Anglo name but still be an English
speaker... (obviously, to you I must be from some kind
of godforsaken Spanish-speaking country, you didn't
even bother to check my details...)
Oh yeah, and let's not forget your other zinger:
"You can disagree and put your argument in a controlled,
intellectual form if you try (like they do at Nikonians)."
Which clearly hints a complete lack of education on
my part. FYI I have a Ph.D. Surprised? I guess so,
since you have made me an uneducated peon with
a "poor vocabulary."
You are free to be a racist, you are free to be a bigot,
but please don't pretend to be unbiased and tolerant,
because you have so evidently proven you are not.
Other people have either expressed similar opinions to
mine or even backed me up, yet you singled me out.
Given the quoted statements, it's pretty obvious why.
Finally, let's not forget that you are hiding behind a
handle while I'm always signing with my real name. I
know, to you it probably means nothing, but it's so
easy to insult someone while well hidden behind a
computer...
I can consider this incident closed, you started insulting
me and I should have the last word. That is if you were
a gentleman, of course...
------------------------------------------------
'Everything should be made as
simple as possible, but no simpler.'
(Albert Einstein)
- Equipment list in profile.
Funny, a good deal of the "Backfocus crew" are calling those without backfocus just as many names. It's the internet, get used to it.
When someone shoots a test chart utterly and completely incorrectly, you bet I can deny their findings. If you do it correctly, and have backfocus, that's wonderful; go get your camera fixed. Don't start meaningless thread #1084763 on the subject.
Wrong. Once again, you're proving you know nothing at all about statistics. You cannot post an informal poll and expect to extrapolate reliable and factual data from it. You've done no testing (how about a z-stat computation?) for statistical significance. You've done no control. You asked inflammatory questions of a non-representitave poll body. Your margin of error is going to be larger then your sample size. You have, in short, broken EVERY SINGLE tenant of statistical methodology, and you're claiming that you can make some sort of factual statement?
Give me a break.
You have no clue the number of cameras that have true backfocus, and you have no idea if the percentage of D70s experiencing the problem is even a significant number. Sorry pal, but your poll couldn't be more meaningless.
Roland Wooster
Veteran Member
Paolo,
I don't care where you're from, or what your first language is, or your level of education, when you write stuff like this:
"My guess is at least 2.5% of the people in this forum (and I suspect
a lot more...) don't know jack s* t about the basics of photography
but they're more than ready to blame their failures on the D70... "
Then there's no doubt in my mind that people will consider that you have poor vocabulary. They aren't talking about your grammer, but your choice of words and your apparent need to swear.
You seem awfully forgetful in 18 hours between your swearing post and your accusations of someone being racist against you.
Roland.
I don't care where you're from, or what your first language is, or your level of education, when you write stuff like this:
"My guess is at least 2.5% of the people in this forum (and I suspect
a lot more...) don't know jack s* t about the basics of photography
but they're more than ready to blame their failures on the D70... "
Then there's no doubt in my mind that people will consider that you have poor vocabulary. They aren't talking about your grammer, but your choice of words and your apparent need to swear.
You seem awfully forgetful in 18 hours between your swearing post and your accusations of someone being racist against you.
Roland.
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