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Shutter speed locked at 200 with flash

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Daniella said:
From what I can think, it will only add a little more light to open
up the shadow..but overall exposure is provided by the ambiant
light. There wil be no motion blurr if the shutter speed is fast
enough.

so what will happen? the light from the flash will not show on the
photo? or what?
Click to expand...
The light from the flash will show up only in a small portion of the photo. Depending on the shutter it will be one vertical stripe, or many of them, like a bird in prison. The overall exposure comes from regular lighting, but only the parts of the sensor that aren't blocked by the travelling shutter curton at the very beginning ( or end ) of teh exposure will show the flash, while the rest of the shadows will still be shadows.

I would imagine it would look pretty bizarre, but not really make for a good photograph.
--
Have fun!
 
don't ask me :) I am totaly clueless for flash..I never even used a external flash before...I sure wish I could use a flash with 1/1000s to fill in those ugly dark shadows on birds or even people's face, animals etc.

Basicaly I will use it as fill in flash but I liked the option to bounce the light too.

could not care less for second curtain or slave.
Ostoski said:
There has to be a way to get fill flash at a relatively close range
with high shutter speeds. Trying to figure out what setting on the
Sigma DG-500 super OR any other competent flash. I flip through the
modes on this flash and I see TTL, Zoom, multi Zoom, TTL Zoom. I
lost my DARN manual...
-------
Rod
http://www.pbase.com/rod_ostoski
Click to expand...
--
Minë Corma hostië të ilyë ar mordossë nutië të
Mornórëo Nóressë yassë i Fuini caitar.
Un thoron arart’a s’un hith mal’kemen ioke.
Saurulmaiel
 
so it's not possible to use a flash with shutter as 1/1000s then with the 300d???

I surely don't wont my birds behind bars..how do people do the fill in flash photo..? I see that all the time in birds photography forum but never saw it done with the 300d.
BirdsAndMore said:
The light from the flash will show up only in a small portion of
the photo. Depending on the shutter it will be one vertical
stripe, or many of them, like a bird in prison. The overall
exposure comes from regular lighting, but only the parts of the
sensor that aren't blocked by the travelling shutter curton at the
very beginning ( or end ) of teh exposure will show the flash,
while the rest of the shadows will still be shadows.

I would imagine it would look pretty bizarre, but not really make
for a good photograph.
--
Have fun!
Click to expand...
--
Minë Corma hostië të ilyë ar mordossë nutië të
Mornórëo Nóressë yassë i Fuini caitar.
Un thoron arart’a s’un hith mal’kemen ioke.
Saurulmaiel
 
how come then the ambiant light does not show bar if the shutter is like that? I have read that the flash can be of 1/700s? that is long enough no?

how come there is no bar when you use the camera at 1/2000s and higher?

how to bypass this?
Daniella said:
I surely don't wont my birds behind bars..how do people do the fill
in flash photo..? I see that all the time in birds photography
forum but never saw it done with the 300d.
BirdsAndMore said:
The light from the flash will show up only in a small portion of
the photo. Depending on the shutter it will be one vertical
stripe, or many of them, like a bird in prison. The overall
exposure comes from regular lighting, but only the parts of the
sensor that aren't blocked by the travelling shutter curton at the
very beginning ( or end ) of teh exposure will show the flash,
while the rest of the shadows will still be shadows.

I would imagine it would look pretty bizarre, but not really make
for a good photograph.
--
Have fun!
Click to expand...
--
Minë Corma hostië të ilyë ar mordossë nutië të
Mornórëo Nóressë yassë i Fuini caitar.
Un thoron arart’a s’un hith mal’kemen ioke.
Saurulmaiel
Click to expand...
--
Minë Corma hostië të ilyë ar mordossë nutië të
Mornórëo Nóressë yassë i Fuini caitar.
Un thoron arart’a s’un hith mal’kemen ioke.
Saurulmaiel
 
Daniella said:
how come then the ambiant light does not show bar if the shutter is
like that? I have read that the flash can be of 1/700s? that is
long enough no?
Click to expand...
This has very little to do with the flash speed. The fact is the shutter is only open for 1/200th (plus some slack) of a second. That's it.
Daniella68313 said:
how come there is no bar when you use the camera at 1/2000s and
higher?
Click to expand...
If you're talking about without flash... because the light remains constant.
Daniella68313 said:
how to bypass this?
Click to expand...
You can't bypass Xsync speed, other than the kludge of high speed sync... which causes more problems than it solves in some situations, and has limited range.

You can buy yourself a camera with an electronic shutter and fool the flash and get some pretty high speeds. Why not search on the 10D or 1D forum for this... you'll find WWWAAYYY more info than within this thread.

Jason
 
Daniella said:
how come then the ambiant light does not show bar if the shutter is
like that? I have read that the flash can be of 1/700s? that is
long enough no?
Click to expand...
It -> does

But if you took a picture of a spinning wheel above your flash sync speed (without a flash), it would look all funny. If the wheel was part of a moving car, it would stop being a circle, and turn into a bit of an oval.

SLRs use focal plane shutters, so the whole sensor can only be exposed in one piece slower than 1/200 or 1/250 or 1/500 or whatever. Digicams use leaf shutters, that can sync at any speed, but can only reach fast shutter speeds at smaller apertures. It's not a real problem on digicams because they use smaller lenses, so they don't have to move so far.
Daniella68313 said:
how to bypass this?
Click to expand...
If you can get close enough and shoot at big apertures, you can make your flash stop being a flash, and turn into a strobe. Then you can use any shutter speed your camera can do. But this kills the power the flash has, it might only work for like 10 feet, and wide open.

Or you could look for a used 1D. The first one didn't really use a shutter. The CCD was the shutter, and the pixels would just turn off. I think that camera can use a flash (as a real flash) at any speed. But I could be wrong.
--
Have fun!
 
I was able to get a flash at 1/1000sec in Manual mode and the flash in FP. In the 300D view finder an H appears next to the flash symble. Looks like this can be done in Tv mode as well but if you are practicing and it's not bright your aperture will fall to it's largest setting (widest) and you may not even be able to fire off a shot. I will be trying this out to flash fill with in-flight birds and the better beamer.

Here is a picture I took this last weekend of Arthur Morris with this setup. They were standing there waiting for birds to fly into the rookery. Only difference is a better camera/flash and a custom flash mount that attaches from the lens (100-400L).



-------
Rod
http://www.pbase.com/rod_ostoski
 
Jason Hutchinson said:
Daniella said:
how come then the ambiant light does not show bar if the shutter is
like that? I have read that the flash can be of 1/700s? that is
long enough no?
Click to expand...
This has very little to do with the flash speed. The fact is the
shutter is only open for 1/200th (plus some slack) of a second.
That's it.
Click to expand...
huh? so even if you use fast sync flash, your shutter is only at 1/200s? I am lost now..how can you use faster shutter speed with flash?
Jason Hutchinson said:
Jason Hutchinson said:
how come there is no bar when you use the camera at 1/2000s and
higher?
Click to expand...
If you're talking about without flash... because the light remains
constant.
Jason Hutchinson said:
how to bypass this?
Click to expand...
You can't bypass Xsync speed, other than the kludge of high speed
sync... which causes more problems than it solves in some
situations, and has limited range.
Click to expand...
kludge?
Jason Hutchinson said:
You can buy yourself a camera with an electronic shutter and fool
the flash and get some pretty high speeds. Why not search on the
10D or 1D forum for this... you'll find WWWAAYYY more info than
within this thread.
Click to expand...
Ok I will ask there. I am just not sure that the 10D or other canon cameras work the same way as the 300d and I have a 300d so I want to make sure that this will work with the 300d, don't care how well it work with other cameras for now.
Jason Hutchinson said:
Jason
Click to expand...
--
Minë Corma hostië të ilyë ar mordossë nutië të
Mornórëo Nóressë yassë i Fuini caitar.
Un thoron arart’a s’un hith mal’kemen ioke.
Saurulmaiel
 
what flash did you use?
Ostoski said:
I was able to get a flash at 1/1000sec in Manual mode and the flash
in FP. In the 300D view finder an H appears next to the flash
symble. Looks like this can be done in Tv mode as well but if you
are practicing and it's not bright your aperture will fall to it's
largest setting (widest) and you may not even be able to fire off a
shot. I will be trying this out to flash fill with in-flight birds
and the better beamer.
Here is a picture I took this last weekend of Arthur Morris with
this setup. They were standing there waiting for birds to fly into
the rookery. Only difference is a better camera/flash and a custom
flash mount that attaches from the lens (100-400L).



-------
Rod
http://www.pbase.com/rod_ostoski
Click to expand...
--
Minë Corma hostië të ilyë ar mordossë nutië të
Mornórëo Nóressë yassë i Fuini caitar.
Un thoron arart’a s’un hith mal’kemen ioke.
Saurulmaiel
 
Daniella said:
huh? so even if you use fast sync flash, your shutter is only at
1/200s? I am lost now..how can you use faster shutter speed with
flash?
Click to expand...
Your shutter is only fully OPEN for 1/200th of a second. If you shoot at 1/1000th your shutter is never fully open. That is constant, that is the Xsync of your camera. That will never, ever, ever change. To use faster speeds with a 300d (which is identical to 10D, D60, D30 etc..) you put your flash in high speed sync mode. The flash then goes off for 1/100 of a second in a long drawn out series of pulses. If your shutter speed is 1/1000th you throw out 90% of those pulses. The pulses you do "catch" don't even illuminate the whole sensor because as I said before, your shutter never opens all the way.
Daniella68313 said:
kludge?
Click to expand...
A kludge is a half-baked solution.
Daniella68313 said:
Ok I will ask there.
Click to expand...
Don't ASK there, SEARCH. There is more info hiidden in these forums than you'll get in 20 new threads. Stop hitting the post button, and read a bit. Also there are lots of great tutorials on all this stuff. I'd really recommend a book on photography too.
Daniella68313 said:
I am just not sure that the 10D or other
canon cameras work the same way as the 300d and I have a 300d so I
want to make sure that this will work with the 300d, don't care how
well it work with other cameras for now.
Click to expand...
If you're not willing to get a camera with an electronic shutter, then your only option is to get the most powerful flash you can (eg. 550ex) and get a better beamer. That's it!

Jason
 
Sigma EF-500 DG Super for Canon

I had originally purchased the Canon 420 EX but it didn't have FEC so I sold it and got the DG Super. Looks like it's going to work out for both night and day fill flash.
Daniella said:
Ostoski said:
I was able to get a flash at 1/1000sec in Manual mode and the flash
in FP. In the 300D view finder an H appears next to the flash
symble. Looks like this can be done in Tv mode as well but if you
are practicing and it's not bright your aperture will fall to it's
largest setting (widest) and you may not even be able to fire off a
shot. I will be trying this out to flash fill with in-flight birds
and the better beamer.
Here is a picture I took this last weekend of Arthur Morris with
this setup. They were standing there waiting for birds to fly into
the rookery. Only difference is a better camera/flash and a custom
flash mount that attaches from the lens (100-400L).



-------
Rod
http://www.pbase.com/rod_ostoski
Click to expand...
--
Minë Corma hostië të ilyë ar mordossë nutië të
Mornórëo Nóressë yassë i Fuini caitar.
Un thoron arart’a s’un hith mal’kemen ioke.
Saurulmaiel
Click to expand...
--
-------
Rod
http://www.pbase.com/rod_ostoski
 
I have not found any mention of bars on the subject..but seems the fill in flash will work nicely up to 46 feet of distance at 1/1000s... which is just about right for what I do. I don't need 1/4000s and I mostly use 1/800s and 1/1200s max for my bird photos. 46 feet is pretty good.

I found this link which give the high sync mode distance reach for each shutter speed used..that is with the 550 but I guess the 420 is quite similar?

http://www.usa.canon.com/html/cameras_speedlite/550exspec.html

at 105mm, 1/1000s, 46 feet. very decent and all i need.
Jason Hutchinson said:
Daniella said:
huh? so even if you use fast sync flash, your shutter is only at
1/200s? I am lost now..how can you use faster shutter speed with
flash?
Click to expand...
Your shutter is only fully OPEN for 1/200th of a second. If you
shoot at 1/1000th your shutter is never fully open. That is
constant, that is the Xsync of your camera. That will never, ever,
ever change. To use faster speeds with a 300d (which is identical
to 10D, D60, D30 etc..) you put your flash in high speed sync mode.
The flash then goes off for 1/100 of a second in a long drawn out
series of pulses. If your shutter speed is 1/1000th you throw out
90% of those pulses. The pulses you do "catch" don't even
illuminate the whole sensor because as I said before, your shutter
never opens all the way.
Jason Hutchinson said:
kludge?
Click to expand...
A kludge is a half-baked solution.
Jason Hutchinson said:
Ok I will ask there.
Click to expand...
Don't ASK there, SEARCH. There is more info hiidden in these
forums than you'll get in 20 new threads. Stop hitting the post
button, and read a bit. Also there are lots of great tutorials on
all this stuff. I'd really recommend a book on photography too.
Jason Hutchinson said:
I am just not sure that the 10D or other
canon cameras work the same way as the 300d and I have a 300d so I
want to make sure that this will work with the 300d, don't care how
well it work with other cameras for now.
Click to expand...
If you're not willing to get a camera with an electronic shutter,
then your only option is to get the most powerful flash you can
(eg. 550ex) and get a better beamer. That's it!

Jason
Click to expand...
--
Minë Corma hostië të ilyë ar mordossë nutië të
Mornórëo Nóressë yassë i Fuini caitar.
Un thoron arart’a s’un hith mal’kemen ioke.
Saurulmaiel
 
Ok so that is what confused me. I was talking about high speed sync all along but I guess that was not obvious :)

and if I use the better beamer..this probably can even be enhanced even more.

Here is a useful table for distance and shutter speed at the bottom of this page:

http://www.usa.canon.com/html/cameras_speedlite/550exspec.html
Jason Hutchinson said:
Daniella said:
what flash did you use?
Click to expand...
There would be no bars because as the poster said that's high speed
sync mode.

Jason
Click to expand...
--
Minë Corma hostië të ilyë ar mordossë nutië të
Mornórëo Nóressë yassë i Fuini caitar.
Un thoron arart’a s’un hith mal’kemen ioke.
Saurulmaiel
 
Ostoski said:
Sigma EF-500 DG Super for Canon

I had originally purchased the Canon 420 EX but it didn't have FEC
so I sold it and got the DG Super. Looks like it's going to work
out for both night and day fill flash.
Click to expand...
yes that'S cool. will you buy a better beamer too?

take a look at this..there is a chart at the bottom that show the distance reach according to the different shutter speeds.

http://www.usa.canon.com/html/cameras_speedlite/550exspec.html

is there such chart for the Sigma?
Ostoski said:
Daniella said:
Ostoski said:
I was able to get a flash at 1/1000sec in Manual mode and the flash
in FP. In the 300D view finder an H appears next to the flash
symble. Looks like this can be done in Tv mode as well but if you
are practicing and it's not bright your aperture will fall to it's
largest setting (widest) and you may not even be able to fire off a
shot. I will be trying this out to flash fill with in-flight birds
and the better beamer.
Here is a picture I took this last weekend of Arthur Morris with
this setup. They were standing there waiting for birds to fly into
the rookery. Only difference is a better camera/flash and a custom
flash mount that attaches from the lens (100-400L).



-------
Rod
http://www.pbase.com/rod_ostoski
Click to expand...
--
Minë Corma hostië të ilyë ar mordossë nutië të
Mornórëo Nóressë yassë i Fuini caitar.
Un thoron arart’a s’un hith mal’kemen ioke.
Saurulmaiel
Click to expand...
--
-------
Rod
http://www.pbase.com/rod_ostoski
Click to expand...
--
Minë Corma hostië të ilyë ar mordossë nutië të
Mornórëo Nóressë yassë i Fuini caitar.
Un thoron arart’a s’un hith mal’kemen ioke.
Saurulmaiel
 
Daniella said:
I have not found any mention of bars on the subject..but seems the
fill in flash will work nicely up to 46 feet of distance at
1/1000s... which is just about right for what I do.
Click to expand...
That is true with one and only one lens, the 50f/1.0. To find your effective range you divide the guide number by the aperture. If you had say an f/5.6 lens you could then reach 8 feet.
Daniella68313 said:
I don't need
1/4000s and I mostly use 1/800s and 1/1200s max for my bird photos.
46 feet is pretty good.
I found this link which give the high sync mode distance reach for
each shutter speed used..that is with the 550 but I guess the 420
is quite similar?
Click to expand...
The ratios of effective power is about the same as normal sync, so you lose about 30% flash coverage. So about a 6 foot range at f/5.6 @ 1/1000th @ ISO 100.

Jason
 
wilfred m rand said:
Daniella said:
wilfred m rand said:
Unless it's in the wasia hack, I think the DR is limited to 1/200
sec sync, though you can set it to rear curtain sync (better).
Click to expand...
the wasia hack does not affect the shutter speed limit with flash.
it wont let you use the onboard flash with more than 1/200s.
Click to expand...
Note that I said "unless it's in the wasia hack." Unless.
--
Wilfred M Rand
http://www.pbase.com/wilfredmrand/
Click to expand...
--
Minë Corma hostië të ilyë ar mordossë nutië të
Mornórëo Nóressë yassë i Fuini caitar.
Un thoron arart’a s’un hith mal’kemen ioke.
Saurulmaiel
 
on the Canon chart they show the result at 105mm..I cannot have been done obviously with a 50mm :))

it must have been done with a 28-105mm, not a 50mm.
Jason Hutchinson said:
Daniella said:
I have not found any mention of bars on the subject..but seems the
fill in flash will work nicely up to 46 feet of distance at
1/1000s... which is just about right for what I do.
Click to expand...
That is true with one and only one lens, the 50f/1.0. To find your
effective range you divide the guide number by the aperture. If
you had say an f/5.6 lens you could then reach 8 feet.
Jason Hutchinson said:
I don't need
1/4000s and I mostly use 1/800s and 1/1200s max for my bird photos.
46 feet is pretty good.
I found this link which give the high sync mode distance reach for
each shutter speed used..that is with the 550 but I guess the 420
is quite similar?
Click to expand...
The ratios of effective power is about the same as normal sync, so
you lose about 30% flash coverage. So about a 6 foot range at
f/5.6 @ 1/1000th @ ISO 100.

Jason
Click to expand...
--
Minë Corma hostië të ilyë ar mordossë nutië të
Mornórëo Nóressë yassë i Fuini caitar.
Un thoron arart’a s’un hith mal’kemen ioke.
Saurulmaiel
 
Daniella said:
it must have been done with a 28-105mm, not a 50mm.
Jason Hutchinson said:
Daniella said:
I have not found any mention of bars on the subject..but seems the
fill in flash will work nicely up to 46 feet of distance at
1/1000s... which is just about right for what I do.
Click to expand...
That is true with one and only one lens, the 50f/1.0. To find your
effective range you divide the guide number by the aperture. If
you had say an f/5.6 lens you could then reach 8 feet.
Daniella68313 said:
I don't need
1/4000s and I mostly use 1/800s and 1/1200s max for my bird photos.
46 feet is pretty good.
I found this link which give the high sync mode distance reach for
each shutter speed used..that is with the 550 but I guess the 420
is quite similar?
Click to expand...
The ratios of effective power is about the same as normal sync, so
you lose about 30% flash coverage. So about a 6 foot range at
f/5.6 @ 1/1000th @ ISO 100.

Jason
Click to expand...
--
Minë Corma hostië të ilyë ar mordossë nutië të
Mornórëo Nóressë yassë i Fuini caitar.
Un thoron arart’a s’un hith mal’kemen ioke.
Saurulmaiel
Click to expand...
--
Minë Corma hostië të ilyë ar mordossë nutië të
Mornórëo Nóressë yassë i Fuini caitar.
Un thoron arart’a s’un hith mal’kemen ioke.
Saurulmaiel
 
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