>>IR-enabled 717 review<<

Read carefully his thread. You will note he uses the XDP in the
photos. XDP is not the same as 1000nm as it uses just 5%-10%
of the IR compared to pure IR filters and it's just about 900nm.
The rest is visible red. The effect is the same as getting a
RM90, reduce the IR to 10% pass thru and putting a red
filter.

z
David
XNite-1000nm – I wanted to have a stronger IR filter than my R72,
to get really high contrast B&W infrared images. Many people here
use the B&W 87C (830nm), but after seeing the skies Andy gets with
the 1000nm filter I had to go and get one of those instead!!!
Where's the post where Andy shows images taken with the
1000nm filter?

What he used is the XDP... which is close to 1000nm (maybe
around 900nm) but only allowing about 10% of IR light
compared to a pure 1000nm (the rest being visible red). I
hope Andy can share his photos taken with the pure 1000nm.
If he has done so, pls. point me to the thread.

In your shutter speed table. You listed 1000nm as producing
only 1/5 sec. What aperture is that? My RG1000 can take
between 1/20 - 1/60 sec at F2.0. I guess it depends on the
thickeness of the glass used. The maxmax 1000nm is 2mm
thick, anyone got any idea what is the thickness of the
Heliopan RG1000? The thickness can determine the
brightness fo the image and this is important since one is
already getting very slow shutter in the stronger filter.

z
--
http://www.pbase.com/dcm74133
 
Luben,

Thanks for the great info. I do have a dumb question though. What prevents stitching shots together to create a panorama?
Hi All,

I recently used MaxMax (www.maxmax.com) to fully IR enable my 717.
Since then I’ve performed a small test to see what this baby can
do. I wanted to share with you what I have found so far, so you
can also make an informed decision on whether to perform this on
your beloved 717. Before continuing I’d like to point out that I
am in no way affiliated with the company that performed this
service for me (MaxMax – http://www.maxmax.com ) & have not received any
incentives (such as free conversion or filters) to write this
article. Also all results are specific to the 717. The 828 with
its RGBE sensor will behave very differently. Andy Williams has
already done a lot of work on reviewing its IR capabilities, so
check out his threads. To keep it easy to read I’ve written it in
the form of a Q&A

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
1 – ‘So what is it?’
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

The procedure involves the replacement of the IR-blocking filter
from in front of the CCD. It is replaced by non-blocking glass,
thus making the 717 capable of capturing the spectrum up to about
1200nm (well into Near-IR spectrum).

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
2 – ‘Well, isn’t the 717 already able to do this using the
Nightshot Mode?’
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Yes, but you are limited to f2 @ 1/60s, which means that you have
to use a few ND filters in order to get it to work during the day.
Even then you don’t have any meaningful control of exposure, depth
of field, shutter speed, white balance etc. etc. Thus you can’t
take any action shots, you can’t take anything needing big DOF, you
can’t take stitched panoramic shots etc. etc.

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
3 – ‘Well why doesn’t MaxMax just put a switch to enable the
lifting of the hot mirror in Manual mode?’
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

The answer is that the camera won’t be able to focus properly. The
speed of light through glass is different to that through air and
this results in divergence of the light hitting the CCD.

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
4 – ‘How does the camera manage to focus in Nightshot mode then?’
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Good question. The answer is that in the Nightshot mode the
electronics inside the camera expect there to be air instead of
glass and as such they compensate for this when focusing. This
compensation does not occur in any of the other modes, since the
camera expects to see glass there.

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
5 – ‘How about an electronics hack or a firmware upgrade?’
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Well, being an Electronics graduate I know that electronics hacks
can be very complicated and may well end up costing more than a
relatively simple glass replacement. As for firmware, the 717 does
not support firmware upgrades. The 828 does support firmware
upgrades, but as yet I don’t know of anybody producing a firmware
hack to allow you to shoot non-compromised IR. And by the time
this crack comes out (if ever) the summer would have gone and with
it countless photographic opportunities would be lost.

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
2 – ‘OK, enough of the sales pitch, how much does it actually cost?’
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

The 717 (or 707) conversion costs $250 + postage. The company also
converts 828s and P72s. I’m not certain of the cost of conversion
of those models, although Andy Williams can help with the 828. The
IR-blocking filter (XNite-CC1) is also necessary if you want to
continue to use the converted 717 to take normal colour photos & is
priced at $76 for the 58mm version. MaxMax also sell various IR
Pass filters with visible-cut wavelengths ranging from 630nm to
1000nm aimed at providing various strength IR effects. They are
also around the same price. Check out:
http://www.maxmax.com/aXNiteFilters.htm

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
3 – ‘What!!! That’s a lot of money, I think I will do it myself.’
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Fair enough. A few people in this forum have attempted this
procedure on their own – some maybe even successfully. I didn’t
want to do this, since I was born with 2 left hands (and I am right
handed ) and knew that I would end up ruining my only
digital camera.

The biggest problem encountered by the people who have tried to do
this has been to get the correct piece of glass to replace the
IR-blocking filter with. If it is not exactly the same thickness,
the camera will have trouble focusing. If it is not made from high
quality multicoated glass a hotspot may appear in the centre of all
images taken with the camera. I did not want these problems, so I
opted for MaxMax, which is a professional outfit converting 717s
and 828s by the dozen. I am yet to regret my decision.

END OF PART 1 - SEE PART 2 BELOW

--
Luben
--------------------

The world is not black and white, but different shades of grey.

--
Jim Blair - Sony F717
Chula Vista California
 
Hi Zhayne,

All shots were taken with f5.6 apperture, so you are probably correct that it does depend on the thickness of the filter.

Thanks for looking and all the best

--
Luben
--------------------

The world is not black and white, but different shades of grey.

 
Exposures vary between shots & then blending between the shots becomes difficult. You really need to lock of every parameter to take good panoramic shots.

All the best

--
Luben
--------------------

The world is not black and white, but different shades of grey.

 
--
Luben
--------------------

The world is not black and white, but different shades of grey.

 
--
Luben
--------------------

The world is not black and white, but different shades of grey.

 
looks so much fun. I am confused a bit on the blending pics which I just LOVE! But thanks so much for the info here. I kept it in fav places lol. Something to ponder lol.
Cherylm
http://www.pbase.com/cherylm

'Yes I am Laughinggggggg! Hey you don't want to see me cry!'
 
Do you have any plans to try your camera with a deeper IR filter, such as a 900nm or 1000nm filter?
Hi All,

I recently used MaxMax (www.maxmax.com) to fully IR enable my 717.
Since then I’ve performed a small test to see what this baby can
do. I wanted to share with you what I have found so far, so you
can also make an informed decision on whether to perform this on
your beloved 717. Before continuing I’d like to point out that I
am in no way affiliated with the company that performed this
service for me (MaxMax – http://www.maxmax.com ) & have not received any
incentives (such as free conversion or filters) to write this
article. Also all results are specific to the 717. The 828 with
its RGBE sensor will behave very differently. Andy Williams has
already done a lot of work on reviewing its IR capabilities, so
check out his threads. To keep it easy to read I’ve written it in
the form of a Q&A

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
1 – ‘So what is it?’
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

The procedure involves the replacement of the IR-blocking filter
from in front of the CCD. It is replaced by non-blocking glass,
thus making the 717 capable of capturing the spectrum up to about
1200nm (well into Near-IR spectrum).

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
2 – ‘Well, isn’t the 717 already able to do this using the
Nightshot Mode?’
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Yes, but you are limited to f2 @ 1/60s, which means that you have
to use a few ND filters in order to get it to work during the day.
Even then you don’t have any meaningful control of exposure, depth
of field, shutter speed, white balance etc. etc. Thus you can’t
take any action shots, you can’t take anything needing big DOF, you
can’t take stitched panoramic shots etc. etc.

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
3 – ‘Well why doesn’t MaxMax just put a switch to enable the
lifting of the hot mirror in Manual mode?’
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

The answer is that the camera won’t be able to focus properly. The
speed of light through glass is different to that through air and
this results in divergence of the light hitting the CCD.

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
4 – ‘How does the camera manage to focus in Nightshot mode then?’
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Good question. The answer is that in the Nightshot mode the
electronics inside the camera expect there to be air instead of
glass and as such they compensate for this when focusing. This
compensation does not occur in any of the other modes, since the
camera expects to see glass there.

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
5 – ‘How about an electronics hack or a firmware upgrade?’
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Well, being an Electronics graduate I know that electronics hacks
can be very complicated and may well end up costing more than a
relatively simple glass replacement. As for firmware, the 717 does
not support firmware upgrades. The 828 does support firmware
upgrades, but as yet I don’t know of anybody producing a firmware
hack to allow you to shoot non-compromised IR. And by the time
this crack comes out (if ever) the summer would have gone and with
it countless photographic opportunities would be lost.

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
2 – ‘OK, enough of the sales pitch, how much does it actually cost?’
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

The 717 (or 707) conversion costs $250 + postage. The company also
converts 828s and P72s. I’m not certain of the cost of conversion
of those models, although Andy Williams can help with the 828. The
IR-blocking filter (XNite-CC1) is also necessary if you want to
continue to use the converted 717 to take normal colour photos & is
priced at $76 for the 58mm version. MaxMax also sell various IR
Pass filters with visible-cut wavelengths ranging from 630nm to
1000nm aimed at providing various strength IR effects. They are
also around the same price. Check out:
http://www.maxmax.com/aXNiteFilters.htm

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
3 – ‘What!!! That’s a lot of money, I think I will do it myself.’
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Fair enough. A few people in this forum have attempted this
procedure on their own – some maybe even successfully. I didn’t
want to do this, since I was born with 2 left hands (and I am right
handed ) and knew that I would end up ruining my only
digital camera.

The biggest problem encountered by the people who have tried to do
this has been to get the correct piece of glass to replace the
IR-blocking filter with. If it is not exactly the same thickness,
the camera will have trouble focusing. If it is not made from high
quality multicoated glass a hotspot may appear in the centre of all
images taken with the camera. I did not want these problems, so I
opted for MaxMax, which is a professional outfit converting 717s
and 828s by the dozen. I am yet to regret my decision.

END OF PART 1 - SEE PART 2 BELOW

--
Luben
--------------------

The world is not black and white, but different shades of grey.

 
--
Luben
--------------------

The world is not black and white, but different shades of grey.

 
--
Luben
--------------------

The world is not black and white, but different shades of grey.

 
I havent done any manual WB settings yet. I can't wait for the chance to try that out.

All the best

PS: I really love your site. You have some great images in there!!!

--
Luben
--------------------

The world is not black and white, but different shades of grey.

 
...a larger resolution version of the 1000nm B&W infrared shot?

Also, maybe I missed it but - what aperture did you use for your test shots?

Thanks

Michael
 
to this directory

http://www.pbase.com/luben/new_ir_experiments

It is called 1000 large original and is 1280 x 960 resolution.

in the next 1 hour or so. One word of causion - The 1000nm shot did not turn out particularly well in B&W. This is probably due to the weather & my skills as a photographer. I need to do some more tests to get the gorgeous results achieved by Andy and others in the forums.

All the best

--
Luben
--------------------

The world is not black and white, but different shades of grey.

 
just a thought, but have you considered using sepis mode when you shoot? Perhaps the tonality would be improved on some of the images that have super-saturated reds.
Hi All,

I recently used MaxMax (www.maxmax.com) to fully IR enable my 717.
Since then I’ve performed a small test to see what this baby can
do. I wanted to share with you what I have found so far, so you
can also make an informed decision on whether to perform this on
your beloved 717. Before continuing I’d like to point out that I
am in no way affiliated with the company that performed this
service for me (MaxMax – http://www.maxmax.com ) & have not received any
incentives (such as free conversion or filters) to write this
article. Also all results are specific to the 717. The 828 with
its RGBE sensor will behave very differently. Andy Williams has
already done a lot of work on reviewing its IR capabilities, so
check out his threads. To keep it easy to read I’ve written it in
the form of a Q&A

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
1 – ‘So what is it?’
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

The procedure involves the replacement of the IR-blocking filter
from in front of the CCD. It is replaced by non-blocking glass,
thus making the 717 capable of capturing the spectrum up to about
1200nm (well into Near-IR spectrum).

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
2 – ‘Well, isn’t the 717 already able to do this using the
Nightshot Mode?’
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Yes, but you are limited to f2 @ 1/60s, which means that you have
to use a few ND filters in order to get it to work during the day.
Even then you don’t have any meaningful control of exposure, depth
of field, shutter speed, white balance etc. etc. Thus you can’t
take any action shots, you can’t take anything needing big DOF, you
can’t take stitched panoramic shots etc. etc.

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
3 – ‘Well why doesn’t MaxMax just put a switch to enable the
lifting of the hot mirror in Manual mode?’
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

The answer is that the camera won’t be able to focus properly. The
speed of light through glass is different to that through air and
this results in divergence of the light hitting the CCD.

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
4 – ‘How does the camera manage to focus in Nightshot mode then?’
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Good question. The answer is that in the Nightshot mode the
electronics inside the camera expect there to be air instead of
glass and as such they compensate for this when focusing. This
compensation does not occur in any of the other modes, since the
camera expects to see glass there.

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
5 – ‘How about an electronics hack or a firmware upgrade?’
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Well, being an Electronics graduate I know that electronics hacks
can be very complicated and may well end up costing more than a
relatively simple glass replacement. As for firmware, the 717 does
not support firmware upgrades. The 828 does support firmware
upgrades, but as yet I don’t know of anybody producing a firmware
hack to allow you to shoot non-compromised IR. And by the time
this crack comes out (if ever) the summer would have gone and with
it countless photographic opportunities would be lost.

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
2 – ‘OK, enough of the sales pitch, how much does it actually cost?’
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

The 717 (or 707) conversion costs $250 + postage. The company also
converts 828s and P72s. I’m not certain of the cost of conversion
of those models, although Andy Williams can help with the 828. The
IR-blocking filter (XNite-CC1) is also necessary if you want to
continue to use the converted 717 to take normal colour photos & is
priced at $76 for the 58mm version. MaxMax also sell various IR
Pass filters with visible-cut wavelengths ranging from 630nm to
1000nm aimed at providing various strength IR effects. They are
also around the same price. Check out:
http://www.maxmax.com/aXNiteFilters.htm

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
3 – ‘What!!! That’s a lot of money, I think I will do it myself.’
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Fair enough. A few people in this forum have attempted this
procedure on their own – some maybe even successfully. I didn’t
want to do this, since I was born with 2 left hands (and I am right
handed ) and knew that I would end up ruining my only
digital camera.

The biggest problem encountered by the people who have tried to do
this has been to get the correct piece of glass to replace the
IR-blocking filter with. If it is not exactly the same thickness,
the camera will have trouble focusing. If it is not made from high
quality multicoated glass a hotspot may appear in the centre of all
images taken with the camera. I did not want these problems, so I
opted for MaxMax, which is a professional outfit converting 717s
and 828s by the dozen. I am yet to regret my decision.

END OF PART 1 - SEE PART 2 BELOW

--
Luben
--------------------

The world is not black and white, but different shades of grey.

 
Finally got around to reading all of it. Thanks Luben for posting such a comprehensive comparison.

Using the 630nm sure brings things to the next level. Looks like more intense and surreal colors are now possible over the R72+cc2.

I'd like to see how the V1 would do with all that added flexibility. Thanks again for the report.

kt
 
The reason your 1000nm can't match Andy's XDP is because
these two filters act differently. When I use each on the
same object or scene, the XDP can give out much details
precisely because it can see red, so the reflections of other
colors such as blue is affected giving it a darker shade. In
the 1000nm, the blue is like white compared to the XDP
whose blue is much darker. The effects of other colors
are the same. So you can't compared them, it's like oranges
vs apples.

If one needs a pure 1000nm, get then a pure 1000nm filter.
The XDP performs like a 5% 900nm and 95% red filter.

zhayne
to this directory

http://www.pbase.com/luben/new_ir_experiments

It is called 1000 large original and is 1280 x 960 resolution.

in the next 1 hour or so. One word of causion - The 1000nm shot
did not turn out particularly well in B&W. This is probably due to
the weather & my skills as a photographer. I need to do some more
tests to get the gorgeous results achieved by Andy and others in
the forums.

All the best

--
Luben
--------------------

The world is not black and white, but different shades of grey.

 
their "formula" for the xdp glass is unique in the industry and that's why they don't give out the specs... more power to you zhane, if you can match it or get similar results with other glass ;-)

i'm liking the results with the xdp, and the converted camera, too!

well worth it, imo.
If one needs a pure 1000nm, get then a pure 1000nm filter.
The XDP performs like a 5% 900nm and 95% red filter.

zhayne
to this directory

http://www.pbase.com/luben/new_ir_experiments

It is called 1000 large original and is 1280 x 960 resolution.

in the next 1 hour or so. One word of causion - The 1000nm shot
did not turn out particularly well in B&W. This is probably due to
the weather & my skills as a photographer. I need to do some more
tests to get the gorgeous results achieved by Andy and others in
the forums.

All the best

--
Luben
--------------------

The world is not black and white, but different shades of grey.

--
-- andy

http://www.moonriverphotography.com -- galleries
 

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