Finally got a lette back from canon..........

When you buy a car, do you expect to pay the base price and get
leather, sun roof, and dvd for free? You all knew what you were
buying, so why do you continue to pester Canon about it?
They did what they had to do to release a groundbreaking product,
which opened up the market to a huge group of people, and if you
don't like it, it really isn't their fault. I bought a 10D for a
reason, but I don't expect it to have all the bells and whistles
the 1D, or even the Mark II, has. You should be happy that you've
come to appreciate all the features that it doesn't have, because
if you bought it not knowing that those features were or might be
important then you have learned and grown. Plenty of people are
giddy with joy about their DR. If you're not, upgrade or go to
another brand. And just for the record, Nikon came in under $1,000
a long time after Canon...don't you think it was a smart marketing
decsion to save time and money leaving those features off and
getting to market first. Look at how many people have invested in
Canon glass and will stick with them because of it. They are,
after all, in business to make money.
--
Matt
I really hate it when people like you jump to conclusion like this, i bet you didn't even read all the posts before you decided to run your mouth. I'm not looking for leather, I just want the vinyl upholstery to work properly and my expensive tires i bought to drive straight down the road. I'm guessing you don't own the digital rebel since you said you bought a 10d, why do so many 10d owners feel so threatened by a digital rebel that allows you to control the focus?

Thanks for wasting even more bandwidth.
--
http://www.pbase.com/paulyoly/root

 
I'm not looking for leather, I just want the vinyl
upholstery to work properly and
my expensive tires i bought to
drive straight down the road.
No, you're complaining that despite buying expensive V-rated tires, you still can't drive over 80MPH or corner worth a darn because of the econobox engine and suspension. And you think the vinyl smells bad.
I'm guessing you don't own the
digital rebel since you said you bought a 10d,
Now I own a digital Rebel AND have slogged my way through many of these posts.
why do so many 10d
owners feel so threatened by a digital rebel that allows you to
control the focus?
No, they think you are misguided because Canon placed a prominent warning label on box and even camera itself that identifies it's limitations: they called it a 'Rebel'. As Canon says, all Rebels work this way.

Canon will eventually produce a sub $1k DSLR that has the features you are whining about and it won't be called a Rebel. And they will continue to produce Rebels that have automation that you cannot always turn off. Why is this concept do hard for your to grasp?
--
Erik
 
probably everyone who buy expensive L lenses...how is that?
Just how many Rebel D owners do you think buy expensive L lenses to
use with it.
more than you think and in case you don't know..and you don't seem to know that either...there are consumers lenses with FTM!!!
and yes that thing exist!

Maybe you have, but you know full well you should have
bought the 10D to begin with.
yes but you see that's the catch...I did not know it was going to behave like that...but now if people come in this forum and they learn about this..they have a choice.
I'm sure the Rebel D will bring some folks to Canon intensely
enough that they will eventually move up to more expensive cameras
and L lenses but the overwhelming base of Rebel D users will have
the kit lens and perhaps another cheap zoom like the Sigma 70-300.
Full time manual focus will never cross their minds. Furthermore,
as I stated below, trusting the almost clear focusing screen of the
Rebel D more than auto focus is and exercise in hopefulness at best.

This whole issue is splitting hairs on an entry level camera
intended for entry level people. You are apparently more than an
entry level person and should be using a better camera. Why you
prefer to ***** about the Rebel D rather than move to a more
adequate camera for your use is beyond this forum.
--
Dave Lewis
--
Minë Corma hostië të ilyë ar mordossë nutië të
Mornórëo Nóressë yassë i Fuini caitar.
Un thoron arart’a s’un hith mal’kemen ioke.
Saurulmaiel
 
I know I won't shut you up. 17500 posts in 2 1/2 years. When do you
eat.
I am an alien so I don't need to eat...but trying to shut people up is pointless. Only way is to fix problems.
--
Dave Lewis
--
Minë Corma hostië të ilyë ar mordossë nutië të
Mornórëo Nóressë yassë i Fuini caitar.
Un thoron arart’a s’un hith mal’kemen ioke.
Saurulmaiel
 
There has been no good come from these threads and there never will
be. Canon holds them with no regard and the rest of us hold them in
contempt.
maybe you should speak for yourself?
But I thought I just had. I surely didn't speak for you. Your 17500 posts over the last two years have done that probably more than they should have.

I don't quite understand you, Daniella. You cried aloud intensely trying to get rid of Stan and his Rebel D bashing, yet here you are living the Stan legend. I must have missed something through it all.
--
Dave Lewis
 
probably everyone who buy expensive L lenses...how is that?
Just how many Rebel D owners do you think buy expensive L lenses to
use with it.
more than you think and in case you don't know..and you don't seem
to know that either...there are consumers lenses with FTM!!!
and yes that thing exist!
I surely do know it I have five of them. I can guarantee you I will never use the full time manual focusing ring with the Rebel D either. As I said in my previous post the focusing screen of the Rebel D is way too clear to give you a better focus than auto focus will. You know that. One look through the view finder can tell you that. What then is the issue. The issue is that you and others on here are just so many more Stans.
Maybe you have, but you know full well you should have
bought the 10D to begin with.
yes but you see that's the catch...I did not know it was going to
behave like that...but now if people come in this forum and they
learn about this..they have a choice.
They will never get this far. The negativism will discourage them long before they get to issues - nonissues, like these. Better for them if they don't, in my mind. It would only discourage them from buying a good camera.
I'm sure the Rebel D will bring some folks to Canon intensely
enough that they will eventually move up to more expensive cameras
and L lenses but the overwhelming base of Rebel D users will have
the kit lens and perhaps another cheap zoom like the Sigma 70-300.
Full time manual focus will never cross their minds. Furthermore,
as I stated below, trusting the almost clear focusing screen of the
Rebel D more than auto focus is and exercise in hopefulness at best.

This whole issue is splitting hairs on an entry level camera
intended for entry level people. You are apparently more than an
entry level person and should be using a better camera. Why you
prefer to ***** about the Rebel D rather than move to a more
adequate camera for your use is beyond this forum.
--
Dave Lewis
--
Minë Corma hostië të ilyë ar mordossë nutië të
Mornórëo Nóressë yassë i Fuini caitar.
Un thoron arart’a s’un hith mal’kemen ioke.
Saurulmaiel
--
Dave Lewis
 
For the Rebel, I don't think Canon sees these as being the "serious" modes, it sees them just as it labels them - the "creative modes". Professional work may be done on these cameras, but the feature set is designed for consumers. I wish there was a way to override this functionality just as much as the next guy, but I can also see why Canon would want to make things more straight forward for their target market.

If you look at the 10D and the D70 in comparison, they're much more complex, and could end up frustrating newbies - just look at how many complaints we have here each day already! It's a tradeoff for a market that Canon has been the first to address, and I can see their rationale: Limiting functionality means less support issues for the majority of their target audience. Limting the functionality also irks some users, but they are really the minority and are likely candidates for a more feature rich product anyway. Canon is aiming for the newbie, and I believe it is a wise decision. Certainly, in the future this featureset is likely to continue to be present in their lowest-line dSLR as it drops in price. Like it or not, we're using their consumer dSLR, regardless of our individual talents and needs. :)
Why make it impossible to avoid AI focus in the 'serious' modes
when they are the very modes used by the more 'serious' users?
Crazy!
As I think others have pointed out, this "problem" is present on
any Canon SLR when it is in AI Focus mode. So there is no defect,
there is just a limitation regarding selecting a prefered shooting
mode. There's nothing for Canon to "fix", per se.
--
DB
--

Sam Bennett - Photo Guy, Audio Engineer and Web-Apper - http://www.swiftbennett.com
 
I'm not looking for leather, I just want the vinyl
upholstery to work properly and
my expensive tires i bought to
drive straight down the road.
No, you're complaining that despite buying expensive V-rated tires,
you still can't drive over 80MPH or corner worth a darn because of
the econobox engine and suspension. And you think the vinyl smells
bad.
I'm guessing you don't own the
digital rebel since you said you bought a 10d,
Now I own a digital Rebel AND have slogged my way through many of
these posts.
why do so many 10d
owners feel so threatened by a digital rebel that allows you to
control the focus?
No, they think you are misguided because Canon placed a prominent
warning label on box and even camera itself that identifies it's
limitations: they called it a 'Rebel'. As Canon says, all Rebels
work this way.

Canon will eventually produce a sub $1k DSLR that has the features
you are whining about and it won't be called a Rebel. And they
will continue to produce Rebels that have automation that you
cannot always turn off. Why is this concept do hard for your to
grasp?
--
Erik
You called me a whiner. So easy for you to say over the internet. It takes a big man to call someone names on the internet.
--
http://www.pbase.com/paulyoly/root

 
What I don't get is why all these people who call others "whiners" and believe that everything is perfect don't just mind their own business. Or is it because they are trying to convince themselves?

Yiannis

Canon Magnifier S
EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6
EF 50mm f/1.4

Dignity consists not in possessing honors, but in the consciousness that we deserve them. Aristotle
 
Erik Magnuson wrote:
(from a prior post, this question was asked)
why do so many 10d
owners feel so threatened by a digital rebel that allows you to
control the focus?
And Erik said:
No, they think you are misguided because Canon placed a prominent
warning label on box and even camera itself that identifies it's
limitations: they called it a 'Rebel'. As Canon says, all Rebels
work this way.

Canon will eventually produce a sub $1k DSLR that has the features
you are whining about and it won't be called a Rebel. And they
will continue to produce Rebels that have automation that you
cannot always turn off. Why is this concept do hard for your to
grasp?
and I reply:

so, I'm looking at the box for my Dreb and you're saying that the word "REBEL" is a warning?? I'm supposed to gather from that word that the functions of this camera are compromised?? It does say "fully automatic 6.3 megapixel DIGIC-powered digital SLR." It's that last part that says to me that it's a single lens reflex camera, not a point and shoot camera. But, you seem to be saying that if it says "rebel," then the thing is somehow compromised compared to the REAL slr's in Canon's line...is that what you're saying??

Nowhere on the box does it say, for example, "if you want all the features included in the camera to be under your control then you need to buy a more expensive and responsive camera," or something like that.

Canon was pretty crafty when they introduced the camera with the controls we want BEFORE they introduced the DRebel because users who think they're getting the SLR they want (DReb)without those features (of the 10d, etc.)they don't necessarily want or need are buying it on the basis of the reputation of the prior models. Y'know???? selling a product not a camera. The only reason I'll stay with a Canon is the selection of bird photography lenses compared to Nikon or Pentax. That's my take on it.

flame away...
jypee in FL
http://www.pbase.com/jypsee/root

--

...we live in a universe whose age we can't quite compute, surrounded by stars whose distances we don't altogether know, filled with matter we can't identify, operating in conformance with physical laws whose properties we don't truly understand.
Bill Bryson; A Short History of Nearly Everything
 
so, I'm looking at the box for my Dreb and you're saying that the
word "REBEL" is a warning
Yes. It has all of the same features and limitations as the film Rebels. Just like when you buy a "Civic" you expect it will be a small car.
I'm supposed to gather from that word
that the functions of this camera are compromised??
Yes. Canon chose a set of compromises they thought would fit their product line. (Just like the film Rebels.)
It does say
"fully automatic 6.3 megapixel DIGIC-powered digital SLR." It's
that last part that says to me that it's a single lens reflex
camera, not a point and shoot camera.
And you totally missed or ignored the words "fully automatic"? The problems that people complain about are that some of the automation cannot be disabled.
But, you seem to be saying
that if it says "rebel," then the thing is somehow compromised
compared to the REAL slr's in Canon's line...is that what you're
saying??
Exactly. It's a brand that indicates certain set of (limited) features. Just like when Canon calls a camera a '1something', it means top of the line, Rebel means low end, very automatic SLR.
Nowhere on the box does it say, for example, "if you want all the
features included in the camera to be under your control then you
need to buy a more expensive and responsive camera," or something
like that.
As I pointed out, you totally ignored the "fully automatic" because that's not what you wanted. Canon has been selling Rebels that have much the same product positioning for the last dozen years or so.
Canon was pretty crafty when they introduced the camera with the
controls we want BEFORE they introduced the DRebel because users
who think they're getting the SLR they want (DReb)without those
features (of the 10d, etc.)they don't necessarily want or need are
buying it on the basis of the reputation of the prior models.
Yep. This applies all the way up the line to the 1D and 1Ds.
Y'know???? selling a product not a camera. The only reason I'll
stay with a Canon is the selection of bird photography lenses
I bought the Rebel because it had the best image quality for the money for what I shoot. If I choose to replace it, I may buy another Rebel or I may step up if I cannot accept the Rebel feature set. Same as with any other product.

--
Erik
 
You called me a whiner. So easy for you to say over the internet.
You're right. The internet does not convey tone of voice.
It takes a big man to call someone names on the internet.
So be the bigger man and address my point and ignore the language. Why would you expect the Digital Rebel to be different from the film Rebels?

--
Erik
 
so, I'm looking at the box for my Dreb and you're saying that the
word "REBEL" is a warning
Yes. It has all of the same features and limitations as the film
Rebels. Just like when you buy a "Civic" you expect it will be a
small car.
I'm supposed to gather from that word
that the functions of this camera are compromised??
Yes. Canon chose a set of compromises they thought would fit their
product line. (Just like the film Rebels.)
It does say
"fully automatic 6.3 megapixel DIGIC-powered digital SLR." It's
that last part that says to me that it's a single lens reflex
camera, not a point and shoot camera.
And you totally missed or ignored the words "fully automatic"? The
problems that people complain about are that some of the automation
cannot be disabled.
But, you seem to be saying
that if it says "rebel," then the thing is somehow compromised
compared to the REAL slr's in Canon's line...is that what you're
saying??
Exactly. It's a brand that indicates certain set of (limited)
features. Just like when Canon calls a camera a '1something', it
means top of the line, Rebel means low end, very automatic SLR.
Nowhere on the box does it say, for example, "if you want all the
features included in the camera to be under your control then you
need to buy a more expensive and responsive camera," or something
like that.
As I pointed out, you totally ignored the "fully automatic" because
that's not what you wanted. Canon has been selling Rebels that
have much the same product positioning for the last dozen years or
so.
Canon was pretty crafty when they introduced the camera with the
controls we want BEFORE they introduced the DRebel because users
who think they're getting the SLR they want (DReb)without those
features (of the 10d, etc.)they don't necessarily want or need are
buying it on the basis of the reputation of the prior models.
Yep. This applies all the way up the line to the 1D and 1Ds.
Y'know???? selling a product not a camera. The only reason I'll
stay with a Canon is the selection of bird photography lenses
I bought the Rebel because it had the best image quality for the
money for what I shoot. If I choose to replace it, I may buy
another Rebel or I may step up if I cannot accept the Rebel feature
set. Same as with any other product.

--
Erik
--

Sam Bennett - Photo Guy, Audio Engineer and Web-Apper - http://www.swiftbennett.com
 
Would you mind kindly pointing out the page in the Rebel manual that describes using FTM in Ai-Focus mode?
you're wrong again. read the manual.
more than likely the only solution we have.
Why is that? Are you all so poor at managing your finances that you can't swing a 10D?
Another option is to get
a long tele lens with the AF stop button on it.
sorry but what are you talking about?
Maybe you should go to the store and check out a 300 f/2.8L IS or 400 f/4 DO IS, or 400 f/2.8L IS or 500 f/4L IS or 600 f/4L IS.

Thanks in advance,

Greg
 
The waste of bandwidth is the original post. My response just a plee to stop electronic littering with complaints that are essentially the result of not having the money to buy a better camera.

People have said that it is an unfair analogy -- why not respond to the point of the analogy rather than the ananlogy? And if you want to pick it apart....

You can get a sunroof on a car that just pops up (is that called a moonroof?) or you can get the fully automatic version that opens all the way...they both work as advertised, but when you pop the cheap one open you wish you had paid the extra money to push a button and have the thing open up. You can buy the adjustable seat that works as advertised or the motorized seat that is much nicer, but also works as advertised. My point here is AS ADVERTISED. They didn't lie or deceive. You got exactly what you paid for. If you want more, you have to pay more...or find another brand. You want something that you didn't pay for and you're sad. Did it ever occur to you that they didn't want to spend the money implementing a feature that people may not use, especially people buying a Rebel who should know that the Rebel's engine has a governor on it at 90mph even though the engine is capable of going 120. You knew, you bought, you complain. It's like people that don't even vote complaining about the president -- your actions did nothing to solve the problem even though you knew what would happen given the decisions you made.
When you buy a car, do you expect to pay the base price and get
leather, sun roof, and dvd for free? You all knew what you were
buying, so why do you continue to pester Canon about it?
They did what they had to do to release a groundbreaking product,
which opened up the market to a huge group of people, and if you
don't like it, it really isn't their fault. I bought a 10D for a
reason, but I don't expect it to have all the bells and whistles
the 1D, or even the Mark II, has. You should be happy that you've
come to appreciate all the features that it doesn't have, because
if you bought it not knowing that those features were or might be
important then you have learned and grown. Plenty of people are
giddy with joy about their DR. If you're not, upgrade or go to
another brand. And just for the record, Nikon came in under $1,000
a long time after Canon...don't you think it was a smart marketing
decsion to save time and money leaving those features off and
getting to market first. Look at how many people have invested in
Canon glass and will stick with them because of it. They are,
after all, in business to make money.
--
Matt
I really hate it when people like you jump to conclusion like this,
i bet you didn't even read all the posts before you decided to run
your mouth. I'm not looking for leather, I just want the vinyl
upholstery to work properly and my expensive tires i bought to
drive straight down the road. I'm guessing you don't own the
digital rebel since you said you bought a 10d, why do so many 10d
owners feel so threatened by a digital rebel that allows you to
control the focus?

Thanks for wasting even more bandwidth.
--
http://www.pbase.com/paulyoly/root

--
Matt
 
When you buy a car, do you expect to pay the base price and get
leather, sun roof, and dvd for free? You all knew what you were
buying, so why do you continue to pester Canon about it?
They did what they had to do to release a groundbreaking product,
which opened up the market to a huge group of people, and if you
don't like it, it really isn't their fault. I bought a 10D for a
reason, but I don't expect it to have all the bells and whistles
the 1D, or even the Mark II, has. You should be happy that you've
come to appreciate all the features that it doesn't have, because
if you bought it not knowing that those features were or might be
important then you have learned and grown. Plenty of people are
giddy with joy about their DR. If you're not, upgrade or go to
another brand. And just for the record, Nikon came in under $1,000
a long time after Canon...don't you think it was a smart marketing
decsion to save time and money leaving those features off and
getting to market first. Look at how many people have invested in
Canon glass and will stick with them because of it. They are,
after all, in business to make money.
--
Matt
I really hate it when people like you jump to conclusion like this,
i bet you didn't even read all the posts before you decided to run
your mouth. I'm not looking for leather, I just want the vinyl
upholstery to work properly and my expensive tires i bought to
drive straight down the road. I'm guessing you don't own the
digital rebel since you said you bought a 10d, why do so many 10d
owners feel so threatened by a digital rebel that allows you to
control the focus?

Thanks for wasting even more bandwidth.
--
http://www.pbase.com/paulyoly/root

--
Matt
you don't even own this camera, so you have no reason to be responding to a simple thread showing the letter i recieved back from canon addressing real problems with this camera like the inability to recompose the shot. Frankly the 10d is not a big enough jump in features for me, i'm going to go straight for the 1d mk II because of the better autofocus/metering and above all else the shutter lag time. You're either just trying to defend your purchase of the 10d or just like to run your mouth on the internet, probably a little bit of both. I don't see why so many 10d owners even post in this forum. I have made one post in the 10d forum about my shutter breaking to find out if it happens with the 10d just as easily. I don't believe i've ever responded to a post in that forum, why would i, i don't own nor have i ever used that came as i'm sure you don't own nor have you ever used the digital rebel.

And to close i would like to quote some of your very words.

"Nobody gives a flip f#

I of course am not completely happy with my camera, but the rest of your statement applies here.

Thanks, i'm going to change my signature picture to a picture of my Ass so everyone can kiss it!

--
http://www.pbase.com/paulyoly/root

 
The waste of bandwidth is the original post. My response just a
plee to stop electronic littering with complaints that are
essentially the result of not having the money to buy a better
camera.
People have said that it is an unfair analogy -- why not respond to
the point of the analogy rather than the ananlogy? And if you want
to pick it apart....
You can get a sunroof on a car that just pops up (is that called a
moonroof?) or you can get the fully automatic version that opens
all the way...they both work as advertised, but when you pop the
cheap one open you wish you had paid the extra money to push a
button and have the thing open up. You can buy the adjustable seat
that works as advertised or the motorized seat that is much nicer,
but also works as advertised. My point here is AS ADVERTISED.
They didn't lie or deceive. You got exactly what you paid for. If
you want more, you have to pay more...or find another brand. You
want something that you didn't pay for and you're sad. Did it ever
occur to you that they didn't want to spend the money implementing
a feature that people may not use, especially people buying a Rebel
who should know that the Rebel's engine has a governor on it at
90mph even though the engine is capable of going 120. You knew,
you bought, you complain. It's like people that don't even vote
complaining about the president -- your actions did nothing to
solve the problem even though you knew what would happen given the
decisions you made.
Your remarks are offensive, your opinion is just so full of arrogance and self-righteousness. Just because you havent read the entire thread to know otherwise or are you like that all the time?

Yiannis

Dignity consists not in possessing honors, but in the consciousness that we deserve them. Aristotle
 
True. It's the way of the Reble series.

I wonder, how many of you owned before a Rebel series film camera and an advenced series Canon film camera. I did. I started with a Rebel G and then switched to an Elan 7.

As much as I simpathyze with all of you who believe the camera should work differently I don't think you'll ever get most of the features you want on a Rebel, simply because the Rebel has been years on the market and it has allways had it's limitatations when compared to the more advanced line of Canon cameras.

Also, the price range is pretty much the same. My Elan 7 costed me about 50% more than what a Rebel 2000 would have costed me then. Yes, digital cameras are much more expensive, you can actually buy a 1v for little more of what you payed for your DRebel! And still the price difference is about the same, $1,000 for a DRebel and about 50% more, or $1,500, for the low end camera of the advanced series, the 10D.

So, what can I say. It's the way the cameras on the Rebel series are, and has been for over a decade, so don't expect it to be different in the future. Changing from a more advanced camera to a less advanced one (yes, the Elan 7 is more advanced than the DRebel, though the format is different) can be seen as a limitation or as a challenge, it's up to you.

It's a though way to discover the differences between the Rebel line and the advanced line, huh? True. But, now it's up to you. You can try and enjoy your camera or complain and blame the camera for your problems and believe you've been cheated.

Actually I don't think this kind of threads is a waste of space. I even enjoy this kind of threads, and respect everyones opinion and right to express it, though, I must addmit, I find them a bit silly. Really, are we getting somewhere with this kind of threads or just letting some steam out over our frustrations?

I believe it would be more productive to focus on other things than just keep on complaining. For instance, some of us, myself included, have no problem recomposing. Wouldn't it be more productive to ask, "why can't I recompose? AI Servo keeps kikking in." Instead of just, over and over, saying "It's not possible to recompose. It's Canon's fault. They should fix it."

Like wise, you can send a thousand letters complaining about the features missing on the Rebel series and get a thousand of similar responses. Instead, why not write Canon asking for more detailed, more technical, documentation about the features included, the respnse might actually help us to understand how to work with the features included without having to fight the camera.
  • DFR
 
... just pops up when it decides to, or won't close unless the day has an "e" in its name.
You can get a sunroof on a car that just pops up (is that called a
moonroof?) or you can get the fully automatic version that opens
all the way...they both work as advertised, but when you pop the
cheap one open you wish you had paid the extra money to push a
button and have the thing open up.
--
DB
 

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