Black DR-cannon's marketing strategy

Raxel · Apr 8, 2004

Cannon officially released black version of DR.

It's clearly cannon's response to D70. Actually there's nothing much in it- it's the same DR painted black. However we can see cannon's marketing strategy clearly here.

They don't care about those who already have bought cannon product.

Almost everyone prefers black SLR body. (I wonder why they like white lenses instead :[) As everyone knows DR is a tuned-down 10D. To differentiate two models they make DR shiny silver colored first.

Now they have sold enough DR and now D70 is released, they release black 300D! Its purpose is to sell the same DR as a new model. Silver DR's been around for a year and now black model is released, many will think it's new and buy one although only thing that is changed is body color.

So this is cannon's marketing strategy. Suddenly all silver 300D turned 'outdated' (I wonder if cannon will discontinue silver model or not, however I suppose 90% will prefer black one and they sell better in 2nd market) and they release THE SAME camera as a new model.

For $400 digicam like ixus or A series I can understand this stratefy. They have to make new model and sell them to make profit. However, for $1000+ DSLR, one year is too short. Other companies like fuji, nikon, etc has at least 2 year of cycle time. It's for sheer marketing and I don't like it.

Why cannon didn't release black DR first?

b.oltzmann · Apr 8, 2004

Raxel said:
Why cannon didn't release black DR first?

They didn't have enough black pigment in stock?

DRG · Apr 8, 2004

Raxel said:
Cannon officially released black version of DR.

Canon has a pattern of marketing their cameras in black midway in the product cycle. When the black G5 was released, folks reacted in a similar fashion to how they're reacting now to this news. As for why Canon does it, I suppose it's simply to keep up awareness and to mop up residual customers who haven't taken the bait yet due to reservations about color. I don't think they intend this to represent any sort of upgrade path for existing owners. It's simply another option for those still shopping.

David

Eric217138 · Apr 8, 2004

Right, I imagine they do it because it will increase sales. That's why most companies do anything.

Still, why are people getting so offended over it? From the sounds of some recent posts, you'd think they were advertised a black Rebel and opened the box to find a Silver one.

Another popular stance is to fault Canon for such a weak response to the D70. I'm sure they had the black model planned before the D70 even came out, especially since they have done this before.

DRG said:
Raxel said:

Cannon officially released black version of DR.

Click to expand...

Canon has a pattern of marketing their cameras in black midway in
the product cycle. When the black G5 was released, folks reacted in
a similar fashion to how they're reacting now to this news. As for
why Canon does it, I suppose it's simply to keep up awareness and
to mop up residual customers who haven't taken the bait yet due to
reservations about color. I don't think they intend this to
represent any sort of upgrade path for existing owners. It's simply
another option for those still shopping.

David

mac22 · Apr 8, 2004

Raxel said:
Cannon officially released black version of DR.
It's clearly cannon's response to D70.

Doubtful!

I suspect Canon have had this in the works for quite some time. Same old sheep in new clothing!

Raxel said:
They don't care about those who already have bought cannon product.

"Care?"

You want Canon to "Care" for you? Mothers do a much better job of that.

Raxel said:
So this is cannon's marketing strategy. Suddenly all silver 300D
turned 'outdated' (I wonder if cannon will discontinue silver model
or not, however I suppose 90% will prefer black one and they sell
better in 2nd market) and they release THE SAME camera as a new
model.

Raxel said:
However, for $1000+ DSLR, one year is too short.

Agree! Digicam life cycle is way too short -- and the megapixel race seems to be the driving force.

Raxel said:
Why cannon didn't release black DR first?

Because they didn't!

They are a business providing customers with products they want! I would call it a brilliant marketing ploy!

I suspect there will be a horde of silver 300D/Digital Rebel's on eBay after Canon gains wider distribution on the black model (providing they do and I would bet the ranch on that one!).

Early adopters of new digicam technology/models always pay a high price for their need to be the first kid on the block with the newest/bestest.

BTW, hasn't the silver 300D/Digital Rebel been out for around 8 months now? Seems to me that people were begging for a black model the very first day the silver one was announced.

Get over it!
--
mac22
'I have duct tape and I am not afraid to use it!'

Sundance138872 · Apr 8, 2004

--
Canon has a history of screwing their customers over.
Ask any pre-EOS user....

Sundance

hbh · Apr 8, 2004

If you are going to comment and second guess what Canon's strategy is, at least spell their name right. Else you are referring to a towel company.

(-ex Canon employee who used to enjoy special treatment at hotels on company assignments when they thought we were from Cannon!)

Raxel said:
Cannon officially released black version of DR.
It's clearly cannon's response to D70. Actually there's nothing
much in it- it's the same DR painted black. However we can see
cannon's marketing strategy clearly here.

They don't care about those who already have bought cannon product.
Almost everyone prefers black SLR body. (I wonder why they like
white lenses instead :[) As everyone knows DR is a tuned-down 10D.
To differentiate two models they make DR shiny silver colored first.

Now they have sold enough DR and now D70 is released, they release
black 300D! Its purpose is to sell the same DR as a new model.
Silver DR's been around for a year and now black model is released,
many will think it's new and buy one although only thing that is
changed is body color.

So this is cannon's marketing strategy. Suddenly all silver 300D
turned 'outdated' (I wonder if cannon will discontinue silver model
or not, however I suppose 90% will prefer black one and they sell
better in 2nd market) and they release THE SAME camera as a new
model.

For $400 digicam like ixus or A series I can understand this
stratefy. They have to make new model and sell them to make profit.
However, for $1000+ DSLR, one year is too short. Other companies
like fuji, nikon, etc has at least 2 year of cycle time. It's for
sheer marketing and I don't like it.

Why cannon didn't release black DR first?

greentoe · Apr 8, 2004

Raxel said:
Cannon officially released black version of DR.

1 As others have pointed out, it is 'Canon' so if you are going to whine about them at least spell it correctly. Even here in Japan they usually use the Roman alphabet.

Raxel said:
It's clearly cannon's response to D70.

2 Clear as mud. From the first day of the 300D announcement there were people whining about why it wasn't black. Before the D70 was even realeased, how many times do you think Canon heard people asking why the 300D wasn't black?

Raxel said:
Actually there's nothing
much in it- it's the same DR painted black. However we can see
cannon's marketing strategy clearly here.

3 Unlike you, I think there is lots in a DR. An incredible amount of electronics to produce great images. Oh, as far as marketing strategy, I think this one is called Give Them What They Want. That is fundamentally good business, which is why Canon makes money and recently most other camera makers have been losing it.

Raxel said:
They don't care about those who already have bought cannon product.

4 Now you are just being assinine. Your current 300D (assuming you own one) will still be repaired (for many years), will still get firmware updates if needed, and you are going to get the new EVU software real soon now for free! How can you say Canon doesn't care about those who bought their product?

Raxel said:
Almost everyone prefers black SLR body. (I wonder why they like
white lenses instead :[)

5 That is a fashion statement. During the last 6o years or so black has come and gone (and come and gone and.....) as the color of the year for cameras. A great deal of cameras over the years have not been black, and they have often been very expensive ones at that.

Raxel said:
As everyone knows DR is a tuned-down 10D.

6 Believe it or not, the DR is not a 'tuned-down' [sic] 10D. It is it's own beast, part of the longest and most successful line of Canon SLRs, the Rebel (in the US) series. Operationally it is in the same design vein as the other Rebels. It has it's own firmware (whose image processing may be superior to the 10D.) It shares many electronics with the 10D, just as the Rebel SLRs shared many mechanicals with other EOS cameras.

Raxel said:
To differentiate two models they make DR shiny silver colored first.

7 There is no evidence that Canon initially planned to first release a silver one, then 8 months later release a black one. As I've stated elsewhere, the 300D was color coordinated with other Canon electronics products and is featured together with them in adverts.

Raxel said:
Now they have sold enough DR and now D70 is released, they release
black 300D! Its purpose is to sell the same DR as a new model.
Silver DR's been around for a year and now black model is released,
many will think it's new and buy one although only thing that is
changed is body color.

8 The 300D has only been available for 8 months, and practically less than that as for the first month many buyers had to wait weeks and weeks to find one.

Raxel said:
So this is cannon's marketing strategy. Suddenly all silver 300D
turned 'outdated' (I wonder if cannon will discontinue silver model
or not, however I suppose 90% will prefer black one and they sell
better in 2nd market) and they release THE SAME camera as a new
model.

9 It is not a new model. That is why it is still called a KissD (remember, that it may not be available outside Japan.) Canon has before offered cosmetic variants. It is a quite reasonable way of getting into every corner of a niche.

Raxel said:
For $400 digicam like ixus or A series I can understand this
stratefy. They have to make new model and sell them to make profit.
However, for $1000+ DSLR, one year is too short. Other companies
like fuji, nikon, etc has at least 2 year of cycle time. It's for
sheer marketing and I don't like it.

10 Whether you like it or not has no relevance to the truth, which you seem to be missing. No where has Canon said the 300D is discontinued. Again, the black variant may be a Japan only model option.

Raxel said:
Why cannon didn't release black DR first?

Already mentioned that.

-gt

Dave Parker · Apr 8, 2004

greentoe said:
greentoe said:

Almost everyone prefers black SLR body. (I wonder why they like
white lenses instead :[)

Click to expand...

The 'white' lens is not a fashion statement, it's because the 'white' lens reflects heat from light. At least that's what it said somewhere in my 'white' lens manual, i think. Jsst another touch to thier Luxury series I guess.

Dave

Eric217138 · Apr 8, 2004

Sundance said:
--
Canon has a history of screwing their customers over.
Ask any pre-EOS user....

How in the WORLD has Canon done anything wrong here?

What should they have done as a better marketing strategy? There's less credibility when hurling insults if you don't at least give your opinion on what they should have done instead.

Eric

JuSh80 · Apr 8, 2004

so my silver DR reflects heat then am i right or does it absorb like tin foil?

i guess im ok with silver aslong as it doesnt absorb heat when left in the car in a hot summer day.

Dave Parker said:
Dave Parker said:

Dave Parker said:

Almost everyone prefers black SLR body. (I wonder why they like
white lenses instead :[)

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

The 'white' lens is not a fashion statement, it's because the
'white' lens reflects heat from light. At least that's what it said
somewhere in my 'white' lens manual, i think. Jsst another touch to
thier Luxury series I guess.

Dave

--
PORTFOLIO SITE: http://kaizenbiz.com/jush ***

Jettubby · Apr 8, 2004

I worked it big company marketing for years. They put out the black Rebel purely for marketing reason and timed it as somewhat of an answer to the Nikon D70. All Canon cares about it MONEY just like most businesses. Do you think they really give a rats butt about the individual consumer? No. If someone complains they send a "Sorry you are unhappy but..." letter. Just look at the Canon rebates from last year. I know several people who bought equipment last fall who still haven't gotten their rebate and Canon will not do anything for them. Care about the individual customer? No. They care about only doing what they have to do to make a buck.

My point is complaing about the rebel does not good. If you don't like it, get another brand or model and that's it. It's sad but that's the way it is.

Todd

James McPeak · Apr 8, 2004

I'm not sure how much credence should be given to someone who thinks "Suddenly all silver 300D [have] turned 'outdated'." That's the silliest thing I've ever heard. Frankly, I don't fault Canon at all. In recent history, most entry-level cameras have been silver, from almost every brand. Canon just decided to snazz it up a little my making the 300D peuter. Now, with people saying they prefer black, they have now introduced a black version. So what? It doesn't make your 300D 'outdated'. It's just adapting to market interests. I hope they continue doing it, and at their quick pace.

And truth be told, proper marketing is a necessary aspect of any viable company. I would think that one of Canon's big concerns was that a 300D that was too similar to the 10D would really hurt the 10D. So they decided to implement product differentiation to protect their product line just like any smart company would. As a result, they were able to sell the 300D and the 10D at capacity. This means that it was a smart business decision, which means that Canon remains a profitable company, which means that they can continue to lead the market it R&D and product offerings. Yes, it may be shocking to realize that the camera business is...a business. Yikes! And god forbid they weren't so agressive with their marketing and development over the past few years, otherwise we would still be paying $2000 for our DSLR cameras. Thank Canon for pushing down prices at such a fast pace with their agressive marketing. So it's a bit of a give and take. Without the 300D, the D70 might have been Nikon's D100 replacement at the same price as the 10D/D100. And we'd all be paying more for our (at least my) first DSLR.

So if the worst you have to complain about is the color of paint...I think you'll live.

Raxel said:
Cannon officially released black version of DR.
It's clearly cannon's response to D70. Actually there's nothing
much in it- it's the same DR painted black. However we can see
cannon's marketing strategy clearly here.

They don't care about those who already have bought cannon product.
Almost everyone prefers black SLR body. (I wonder why they like
white lenses instead :[) As everyone knows DR is a tuned-down 10D.
To differentiate two models they make DR shiny silver colored first.

Now they have sold enough DR and now D70 is released, they release
black 300D! Its purpose is to sell the same DR as a new model.
Silver DR's been around for a year and now black model is released,
many will think it's new and buy one although only thing that is
changed is body color.

So this is cannon's marketing strategy. Suddenly all silver 300D
turned 'outdated' (I wonder if cannon will discontinue silver model
or not, however I suppose 90% will prefer black one and they sell
better in 2nd market) and they release THE SAME camera as a new
model.

For $400 digicam like ixus or A series I can understand this
stratefy. They have to make new model and sell them to make profit.
However, for $1000+ DSLR, one year is too short. Other companies
like fuji, nikon, etc has at least 2 year of cycle time. It's for
sheer marketing and I don't like it.

Why cannon didn't release black DR first?

greentoe · Apr 8, 2004

That is why I said cameras, not lens, in my reply.

Most makers have had white (or whitish) lenses, and while Canon may be the most famous, Olympus had very expensive (and good) white teles, and Minolta have come out with a few. Leica has had some off colors. Pentax has had silver. Only Nikon didn't budge, until recently offering color options on some long teles.

-gt

Dave Parker said:
Dave Parker said:

Dave Parker said:

Almost everyone prefers black SLR body. (I wonder why they like
white lenses instead :[)

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

The 'white' lens is not a fashion statement, it's because the
'white' lens reflects heat from light. At least that's what it said
somewhere in my 'white' lens manual, i think. Jsst another touch to
thier Luxury series I guess.

Dave

noisebeam · Apr 8, 2004

The sad thing is that customers and reviewers actually do care about color - as made obvious by Phil's (and other reviews) and the endless threads about color here. If they didn't then it would not be possible for Canon or other companies to use as a marketing strategy - and they would have to solely use features & capability & price instead to compete and drive distinctions between minor upgrades.

So these color changes are ulitimately driven by you the customer. If you want new features instead of new colors then ignore colors, don't complain about them and ignore reviews (or the parts of them) that focus on color.

As a side note this was totally expected - the G-series changed to black, the S-series changed to black. Of course the Rebel would eventually be released in black.

Al

greentoe · Apr 8, 2004

Jettubby said:
I worked it big company marketing for years. They put out the black
Rebel purely for marketing reason and timed it as somewhat of an
answer to the Nikon D70.

As others have pointed out, Canon has a history of offering added colors later in the life cycle. A nice way of keeping a model before the news wire (or in this case, the front of the dpreview website!)

Jettubby said:
All Canon cares about it MONEY just like
most businesses. Do you think they really give a rats butt about
the individual consumer?

If they are in the business of selling to the general public then yes, they better care about what people want, and about their image. Indeed, compared to the likes of Nikon, Canon does a decent job, or else they wouldn't be selling so many products and making so much money (compared to others in the industry.)

Jettubby said:
No. If someone complains they send a
"Sorry you are unhappy but..." letter. Just look at the Canon
rebates from last year.

Don't know about rebates, but if someone thinks they are due one then they should keep after whatever company until it gets resolved.

As far as unhappy customers, simply put there are always unhappy customers for one reason or another. Don't know if you have been in retail (of either products or services) but sometimes there are customers that just cannot be happy with what you have to offer or what you can do. In that case, said customer should go elsewhere.

Jettubby said:
I know several people who bought equipment
last fall who still haven't gotten their rebate and Canon will not
do anything for them. Care about the individual customer? No. They
care about only doing what they have to do to make a buck.

Given that you equate making money with evil, you must have went to public school?

I'm not defending Canon if indeed they owe someone a promised rebate (the requirements of which that a customer duly filled.)

Jettubby said:
My point is complaing about the rebel does not good. If you don't
like it, get another brand or model and that's it. It's sad but
that's the way it is.

I'm not the one complaining about the DR, so I don't know why you are aiming this at me! You sound somewhat bitter, heaven knows why, you might have a real complaint about Canon, but somehow it seems out of place in this part of this thread...

Jettubby said:
Todd

Ryoohki · Apr 8, 2004

a reply? why.. in Canada the DR is 1349$ and the D70 is 1899$ with taxes it's 600$MORE they're surely not in competition here.

I saw a young couple looking for a DSLR and they choose the Drebel because they wanted something for less than 1500$ ... D70 is out of reach for many new user here. of course, if you already have Nikon Gear and the Cheapest way to upgrade

Raxel said:
Cannon officially released black version of DR.
It's clearly cannon's response to D70. Actually there's nothing
much in it- it's the same DR painted black. However we can see
cannon's marketing strategy clearly here.

They don't care about those who already have bought cannon product.
Almost everyone prefers black SLR body. (I wonder why they like
white lenses instead :[) As everyone knows DR is a tuned-down 10D.
To differentiate two models they make DR shiny silver colored first.

Now they have sold enough DR and now D70 is released, they release
black 300D! Its purpose is to sell the same DR as a new model.
Silver DR's been around for a year and now black model is released,
many will think it's new and buy one although only thing that is
changed is body color.

So this is cannon's marketing strategy. Suddenly all silver 300D
turned 'outdated' (I wonder if cannon will discontinue silver model
or not, however I suppose 90% will prefer black one and they sell
better in 2nd market) and they release THE SAME camera as a new
model.

For $400 digicam like ixus or A series I can understand this
stratefy. They have to make new model and sell them to make profit.
However, for $1000+ DSLR, one year is too short. Other companies
like fuji, nikon, etc has at least 2 year of cycle time. It's for
sheer marketing and I don't like it.

Why cannon didn't release black DR first?

--

Cameranumerique.net (Forum Québécois de caméras Numériques) http://www.cameranumerique.net

James McPeak · Apr 8, 2004

I just Raxel's posting history:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/postersprofile.asp?poster=hjilieiwhxii&page=1

All in the Nikon D70 forum, and this is his first in the 300D forum. Does immaturity have no limits, even amongst so-called adults?

James McPeak said:
And truth be told, proper marketing is a necessary aspect of any
viable company. I would think that one of Canon's big concerns was
that a 300D that was too similar to the 10D would really hurt the
10D. So they decided to implement product differentiation to
protect their product line just like any smart company would. As a
result, they were able to sell the 300D and the 10D at capacity.
This means that it was a smart business decision, which means that
Canon remains a profitable company, which means that they can
continue to lead the market it R&D and product offerings. Yes, it
may be shocking to realize that the camera business is...a
business. Yikes! And god forbid they weren't so agressive with
their marketing and development over the past few years, otherwise
we would still be paying $2000 for our DSLR cameras. Thank Canon
for pushing down prices at such a fast pace with their agressive
marketing. So it's a bit of a give and take. Without the 300D,
the D70 might have been Nikon's D100 replacement at the same price
as the 10D/D100. And we'd all be paying more for our (at least my)
first DSLR.

So if the worst you have to complain about is the color of
paint...I think you'll live.

Raxel said:

Cannon officially released black version of DR.
It's clearly cannon's response to D70. Actually there's nothing
much in it- it's the same DR painted black. However we can see
cannon's marketing strategy clearly here.

They don't care about those who already have bought cannon product.
Almost everyone prefers black SLR body. (I wonder why they like
white lenses instead :[) As everyone knows DR is a tuned-down 10D.
To differentiate two models they make DR shiny silver colored first.

Now they have sold enough DR and now D70 is released, they release
black 300D! Its purpose is to sell the same DR as a new model.
Silver DR's been around for a year and now black model is released,
many will think it's new and buy one although only thing that is
changed is body color.

So this is cannon's marketing strategy. Suddenly all silver 300D
turned 'outdated' (I wonder if cannon will discontinue silver model
or not, however I suppose 90% will prefer black one and they sell
better in 2nd market) and they release THE SAME camera as a new
model.

For $400 digicam like ixus or A series I can understand this
stratefy. They have to make new model and sell them to make profit.
However, for $1000+ DSLR, one year is too short. Other companies
like fuji, nikon, etc has at least 2 year of cycle time. It's for
sheer marketing and I don't like it.

Why cannon didn't release black DR first?

Click to expand...

PhantomAndy · Apr 8, 2004

Raxel said:
Cannon officially released black version of DR.
It's clearly cannon's response to D70. Actually there's nothing
much in it- it's the same DR painted black. However we can see
cannon's marketing strategy clearly here.

Very good - you noticed that it is Marketing

Raxel said:
They don't care about those who already have bought cannon product.
Almost everyone prefers black SLR body. (I wonder why they like
white lenses instead :[) As everyone knows DR is a tuned-down 10D.
To differentiate two models they make DR shiny silver colored first.

That is a possible motive for the silver DR - but consider the general design and styling of consumer electronics these days. Silver is 'in' just in case you hadn't noticed. And you are correct - many will 'prefer the professional look' (emphasis on look) of a black camera. I will take photos just as well, or poorly, whether it's black, white, red, silver or plaid.

Raxel said:
Now they have sold enough DR and now D70 is released, they release
black 300D! Its purpose is to sell the same DR as a new model.
Silver DR's been around for a year and now black model is released,
many will think it's new and buy one although only thing that is
changed is body color.

I doubt anyone will think that the black color makes it 'new'. If you don't do enough research about what you are buying not to realized that a black 300D is the same as a Silver 300D then it's quite possible that you shouldn't be allow to even have any money.

Raxel said:
So this is cannon's marketing strategy. Suddenly all silver 300D
turned 'outdated' (I wonder if cannon will discontinue silver model
or not, however I suppose 90% will prefer black one and they sell
better in 2nd market) and they release THE SAME camera as a new
model.

I don't think that Canon (not Cannon) thinks that the 300D is 'outdated' but simply that they are aware of market trends, and customer wants and needs. This is simply good business (being aware). It's highly likely that the release of a black body was in the marketing plan from the beginning. Many companies have a planned replacement product well before releasing the original (read up on Gillette).

Raxel said:
For $400 digicam like ixus or A series I can understand this
stratefy. They have to make new model and sell them to make profit.
However, for $1000+ DSLR, one year is too short. Other companies
like fuji, nikon, etc has at least 2 year of cycle time. It's for
sheer marketing and I don't like it.

Your right - It's marketing. Much like early model year releases on automobiles in the US. Only autos cost an average of $23000.

I personally don't blame Canon (a company who is in business to make a profit) for making a solid marketing move to improve their bottom line. It's not like they added features that truly differentiate the Black body from the Silver body - simply a cosmetic makeover.

Raxel said:
Why cannon didn't release black DR first?

Who knows why Canon didn't release the camera in black first. It's hard to speculate about what their marketing plan for this product is.

Personally to me - it makes no difference what their plan is. I'm happy with my Dreb, and enjoy shooting with it ever day. I'll continue to be happy with it for several years.

I look at it this way. Companies like Dell, IBM, Gateway all make PC's who's model line lasts only a few months. The model numbers change (along with the guts) and sometimes it's nothing more than cosmetic. That's the way things work in a fast moving industry like computers. Now that we have digital SLR's reaching the consumer market, I believe we can (and should) expect that market to be much faster moving that the traditional SLR market. Why? We are dealing with technology - on cutting edge (on the cosumer end) technology at that. The technology will change fast(not that color is technology) and with that fast pace you should expect to see camera models being upgraded more often. In the end the consumer is the winner.

However just as the consumer PC market (or automobile market) you can't just go out and buy a new PC when they change the case design, or add a new video card unless you have money to burn. Things will change - and your budget and desire to be on the forefront of those changes will have to be what dictates whether or not you upgrade everytime they reskin a camera or offer a new model with a few new add ons.

Personally - I plan on making my silver rebel last for at least 3 - 5 years.

And my car? 10 years I hope

Happy shooting.

--
Andy
http://www.pandasystems.net/gallery

Leo Bonnet · Apr 8, 2004

Hi All,

The good old EOS 50 (a camera that took only 24 or 36 exposure compactflash cards) had a silver/metal body color in most countries.

In Japan this camera was black, and it was called EOS 55.

The strange thing is that nobody ever had a problem with the silver body color.

My question is: Are DSLR buyers more sensitive to the body color than the buyers of for instance the EOS 50 a hew years ago?

A Canon user since 1982.

Black DR-cannon's marketing strategy

Forum Enthusiast

Well-known member

Veteran Member

Senior Member

Forum Enthusiast

Leading Member

Leading Member

Senior Member

Well-known member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Leading Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Leading Member

Senior Member

Forum Enthusiast

New member

Keyboard shortcuts