Etronics sells the whole kit for 1199 and the body for 899. You can get it all day for 1299. I am not sure where you get 1399 and 1499 from. It has outstanding features; ittl flash, no shutter lag and immediate startup, flash exposure compensation, 1/500 flash sync, fast and accurate focusing in a very nice body and the list goes on. I have a both a Canon and a Nikon, specifically the D70. The D70 is the one to get if you are buying a new DSLR for around $1000 US Dollars give or take $500. I want to see what the S3 Pro is all about.
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D70 - Highly Recc'd - Phil's Review...
- Thread starter Stan
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Daniella68313
Forum Pro
Have you checked the res charts?
the d70 does not resolve as much detail as the 300d at the end of the chart and on top of it it has moiré whereas the 300d did not show this.
Minë Corma hostië të ilyë ar mordossë nutië të
Mornórëo Nóressë yassë i Fuini caitar.
Un thoron arart’a s’un hith mal’kemen ioke.
Saurulmaiel
the d70 does not resolve as much detail as the 300d at the end of the chart and on top of it it has moiré whereas the 300d did not show this.
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Minë Corma hostië të ilyë ar mordossë nutië të
Mornórëo Nóressë yassë i Fuini caitar.
Un thoron arart’a s’un hith mal’kemen ioke.
Saurulmaiel
Dravic
Active member
d70
just my .02c
also, nothing against phil, but some of his comment seem to fly in the face of the visible evidence he put forth. at least in the jpeg compaison pages.
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Digital Rebel w/ 2x512MB CF
75-300mm f/4.0-5.6 III USM
Thrifty Fiftry (50mm f/1.8 II)
Kit Lens
Toshiba PDR-M25
http://www.digital-davis.com/
- slightly shaper in raw mode
- in camera jpeg conversion leaves much to be desired, to me the rebel was shaper and had better colors in the jpeg comparisons.
- moire issue not as bad as adverstised, but still an issue if you shoot anything but raw, and even then it could affect workflow if you have to look over certain prone images verifing the absence of moire..
just my .02c
also, nothing against phil, but some of his comment seem to fly in the face of the visible evidence he put forth. at least in the jpeg compaison pages.
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Digital Rebel w/ 2x512MB CF
75-300mm f/4.0-5.6 III USM
Thrifty Fiftry (50mm f/1.8 II)
Kit Lens
Toshiba PDR-M25
http://www.digital-davis.com/
Daniella68313
Forum Pro
not so rare that he did not get it in his test photos. Look at the building in his test..yes he did get moiré.
enough so that he had to put the asterix in the res chart.
The image
Minë Corma hostië të ilyë ar mordossë nutië të
Mornórëo Nóressë yassë i Fuini caitar.
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Saurulmaiel
enough so that he had to put the asterix in the res chart.
for a price difference...but he seem to have done a lot better with his kit lens that you did with yours! LOL!
The image
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Minë Corma hostië të ilyë ar mordossë nutië të
Mornórëo Nóressë yassë i Fuini caitar.
Un thoron arart’a s’un hith mal’kemen ioke.
Saurulmaiel
Forrest41926
Forum Pro
And you've conclusively proven that you, personally, find moire a small price to pay for all of this.
...his written text says (a number of times) the same basic thing I have found to be the case. More detail, more apparent sharpness on nearly every shot. Minor but rare side effects related to this. Minor.
Using the two cameras back and forth really points up flexibility issues (crippling) Speed..nuff said there..there's no comparison. The D70 always feels ready to go and can get out of the way of what you decided you'd like to accomplish.
One thing not clearly noted in his test is that the N kit lense basically smokes the C lens in typical shots. The apparent sharpness and actual detail differences are smaller when the Canon is fitted with nicer glass.
Stan
Using the two cameras back and forth really points up flexibility issues (crippling) Speed..nuff said there..there's no comparison. The D70 always feels ready to go and can get out of the way of what you decided you'd like to accomplish.
One thing not clearly noted in his test is that the N kit lense basically smokes the C lens in typical shots. The apparent sharpness and actual detail differences are smaller when the Canon is fitted with nicer glass.
Stan
austex
Leading Member
You have to understand, some people built the D70 up to be the greatest camera ever, before it was even released. When it showed up and the images weren't any better than the 300D (especially in print), then some D70 owners/fans had a mini-crisis
As a result, we were subjected to a billion "I'm testing both the D70 and 300D" threads, none of which were professional or unbiased by any means. They were clearly intending on certain outcomes even before their "tests" began (and some went so far as to play fast and loose with such basic things as focus and crop factors/distances).
My view, many Nikon users wanted sharper pics out of the camera, Nikon gave them that with moire/color problems being a well-known side effect which Nikon acknowldged. Somewhere ISO 100 got lost.
Some D70 fans got upset, or at least irritated by the minor problems with the D70, or were upset by all the moire jokes, and proceeded to try and drag the 300D through the mud.
I view the D70 like I do the Sony 828 - they are both good cameras. They have "problems" which are a result of designs/decisions made to give their users what they want, and both companies have said "yes, we gave you this, the possibility that a problem/side-effect may occur is known to us" Canon chose to go a slightly different route.
It is amusing, I don't exactly see many people switching from Canon to Nikon. I don't see it on the forums, I don't see it in person at the camera shops I frequent.
I see Nikon film SLR or P&S users upgrading to the D70, or people buying the D70 as a backup, just as I see Canon film SLR or P&S users upgrading to the 300D, or 1D users buying 300D as a backup.
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Roger, call David. It's been over 20 years.
I have also looked at my sensor in the D70. There was a speck of dust above the mirror. I blew it off with a hurricane blower. While I was at it, I looked at the sensor by locking the mirror in the upward position. No problem at all.
Daniella68313
Forum Pro
stop relying on your cr@ppy kit lens which is probably defective and check out Phill resolution charts...
Now you get it?
Nikon D70 Horiz LPH 1600 * 1850
Vert LPH 1450 * 1850
5° Diagonal LPH + 1000 n/a
Canon EOS 300D Horiz LPH 1600 1900
Vert LPH 1450 1850
5° Diagonal LPH + 1000 n/a
See how the 300d has overall done a better job in the resolution test?
and without artifacts.
Minë Corma hostië të ilyë ar mordossë nutië të
Mornórëo Nóressë yassë i Fuini caitar.
Un thoron arart’a s’un hith mal’kemen ioke.
Saurulmaiel
Now you get it?
Nikon D70 Horiz LPH 1600 * 1850
Vert LPH 1450 * 1850
5° Diagonal LPH + 1000 n/a
Canon EOS 300D Horiz LPH 1600 1900
Vert LPH 1450 1850
5° Diagonal LPH + 1000 n/a
See how the 300d has overall done a better job in the resolution test?
and without artifacts.
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Minë Corma hostië të ilyë ar mordossë nutië të
Mornórëo Nóressë yassë i Fuini caitar.
Un thoron arart’a s’un hith mal’kemen ioke.
Saurulmaiel
Dravic
Active member
the higher level of noise in those same raw studio shots that the d70 was more detailed in.
A very good camera,
a good answer to the drebel, but too many issues that should have been caught by QA.
moire
color shift
slight sensitivity to blooming
Digital Rebel w/ 2x512MB CF
75-300mm f/4.0-5.6 III USM
Thrifty Fiftry (50mm f/1.8 II)
Kit Lens
Toshiba PDR-M25
http://www.digital-davis.com/
A very good camera,
a good answer to the drebel, but too many issues that should have been caught by QA.
moire
color shift
slight sensitivity to blooming
--
Digital Rebel w/ 2x512MB CF
75-300mm f/4.0-5.6 III USM
Thrifty Fiftry (50mm f/1.8 II)
Kit Lens
Toshiba PDR-M25
http://www.digital-davis.com/
Sam Bennett
Veteran Member
It makes perfect sense for Phil to use it. But the review (and your assessments) go beyond out-of-the-box performance, and into more "what is the camera capable of in real world use" type of reviewing - the RAW tests, in particular. Even just switching to RAW and still using P1 gives better noise performance, using Parameter 2 will yield even better results. So, if you want to compare what the cameras are capable of, shoot them both in RAW without any tweaks. My point is that the noise you find offensive isn't present in like-to-like comparisons. And as I've mentioned in other posts here that also eliminates some of the advantage given to how some of the 300D samples really seem to "pop" more than the D70 samples.
At any rate, with that said my hunch is that the D70 not only has an advantage in the color of the noise, but the pattern as well. You can see a clearl horizontal "bias" in the DR's noise pattern, which isn't apparent in the Nikon at all. I imagine this has more to do with sensor design that anything else. I'm going to see if I can arrange borrowing a D70 for a weekend to look into this myself.
Sam Bennett - Photo Guy, Audio Engineer and Web-Apper - http://www.swiftbennett.com
At any rate, with that said my hunch is that the D70 not only has an advantage in the color of the noise, but the pattern as well. You can see a clearl horizontal "bias" in the DR's noise pattern, which isn't apparent in the Nikon at all. I imagine this has more to do with sensor design that anything else. I'm going to see if I can arrange borrowing a D70 for a weekend to look into this myself.
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Sam Bennett - Photo Guy, Audio Engineer and Web-Apper - http://www.swiftbennett.com
...now the heat is on Canon to make a kickbutt replacement of the 300D and 10D. I own a 300D.
We should be thankful everytime Nikon puts out a winner, as it will help Canon do better. Likewise with Canon.
The more competition between Nikon and Canon, the better for us, the consumer.
Congrats Nikon. If I was in the market for a DSLR, I would seriously consider the D70, but I bought the 300D a while ago, and I like Canon, and I know better will come, so no big deal.
We should be thankful everytime Nikon puts out a winner, as it will help Canon do better. Likewise with Canon.
The more competition between Nikon and Canon, the better for us, the consumer.
Congrats Nikon. If I was in the market for a DSLR, I would seriously consider the D70, but I bought the 300D a while ago, and I like Canon, and I know better will come, so no big deal.
...it's very much as Reichmann writes at his site: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/ If you read a few of his recent essays you'll see what I mean.
If you want to talk price tags..well then what is the price of the decontenting of the Drebel? What about it's "soft" nature.
I don't think the Image quality differences are huge between these two cameras.
Stan
If you want to talk price tags..well then what is the price of the decontenting of the Drebel? What about it's "soft" nature.
I don't think the Image quality differences are huge between these two cameras.
Stan
Juggler
Senior Member
that phil keeps saying "d70 delivers more detail than 300d"... But then we see that the resolution chart results are:
Nikon D70 Horiz LPH 1600 * 1850
Vert LPH 1450 * 1850
5° Diagonal LPH + 1000 n/a
Canon EOS 300D Horiz LPH 1600 1900
Vert LPH 1450 1850
5° Diagonal LPH + 1000 n/a
Which means, Canon EOS 300D resolves more detail.. D70 reaches 1850, but that asterisk means moire occurs at that level.
Is there something wrong with my interpretation?
--
'Juggling is a metaphor for life.. Each ball represents one of life's concerns and the goal is to give each the appropriate amount of individual attention while simultaneously watching and guiding all the others. Life is about balance and staying quick and alert as everything threatens to spin out of control' from Calvin and Hobbes by Bill Watterson
Nikon D70 Horiz LPH 1600 * 1850
Vert LPH 1450 * 1850
5° Diagonal LPH + 1000 n/a
Canon EOS 300D Horiz LPH 1600 1900
Vert LPH 1450 1850
5° Diagonal LPH + 1000 n/a
Which means, Canon EOS 300D resolves more detail.. D70 reaches 1850, but that asterisk means moire occurs at that level.
Is there something wrong with my interpretation?
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'Juggling is a metaphor for life.. Each ball represents one of life's concerns and the goal is to give each the appropriate amount of individual attention while simultaneously watching and guiding all the others. Life is about balance and staying quick and alert as everything threatens to spin out of control' from Calvin and Hobbes by Bill Watterson
Archermoo
Forum Enthusiast
As expected, a non-responsive post. I post specifically about the sharpness issue, and the blurryness of your 300D shots as opposed to your D70 shots, and you ignore it and change the subject.
You repeatedly stated in other threads that your blurry shots from the 300D are good examples of its standard performance when taking high detail shots. You also claim that Phil backed up your observation in his 300D reviews. I asked you for a link to anything in his review that backed you up and you refused to even acknowledge the request, though you replied to most of the posts. Phil came out with his D70 review and specifically stated that the ability of the two cameras to resolve at high detail is almost identical, directly contradicting your claim to the contrary. And still you claim that he agrees with you.
Yes the D70 is sharp. Pretty much as sharp as the 300D. Ever so slightly less so in Phil's resolution chart comparison, with moire at the extreme limits. In the more subjective comparisons (the outdoor and studio photo crop comparisons) Phil pretty much stated that they were basically neck and neck, with his personal nod to a potential slight edge to the D70. In some of the shots I agree with him, in some I don't. But in his review it is obvious that the cameras are very nearly identical it how well they resolve fine detail. Very different results than your tests.
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Gary
Dravic
Active member
ahhh ok...
then explain page 22, and the other jpeg comparison shots
the whole instant wake up thing is a load also.. set the sleep time to 4 mins or greater, and buy an extra $12 battery..
the only true advantage is the continous shooting in jpeg mode, and looking at the jpeg comparisons, i wouldn't use jpeg with the d70.
Digital Rebel w/ 2x512MB CF
75-300mm f/4.0-5.6 III USM
Thrifty Fiftry (50mm f/1.8 II)
Kit Lens
Toshiba PDR-M25
http://www.digital-davis.com/
then explain page 22, and the other jpeg comparison shots
the whole instant wake up thing is a load also.. set the sleep time to 4 mins or greater, and buy an extra $12 battery..
the only true advantage is the continous shooting in jpeg mode, and looking at the jpeg comparisons, i wouldn't use jpeg with the d70.
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Digital Rebel w/ 2x512MB CF
75-300mm f/4.0-5.6 III USM
Thrifty Fiftry (50mm f/1.8 II)
Kit Lens
Toshiba PDR-M25
http://www.digital-davis.com/
Because for me, and for others, the noise and moire issues with the D70 are not worth the hassle to gain some flexibility. Canon will offer a more flexible camera that still uses its excellent CMOS sensor, so I would rather collect Canon glass. Looking at Phil's ORIGINAL shots from the D70, I can pick out Moire in many of them and I can see noise in the blue sky of many of them. To ME, that is reason enough to stick with Canon. Obviously to you Stan, it is not. Even though you have made 5000 posts here glorifying how wonderful the D70 is, I still like the Canon more because I have compared the image quality of the two.
David J B.
Leading Member
...I'm lucky if I get one reply, but for this...125+++
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http://www.pbase.com/djblauer/winter_20034
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http://www.pbase.com/djblauer/winter_20034
Daniella68313
Forum Pro
and after watching all the samples...I can see places where the 300d resolve more detail and places where the d70 resolves more detail...but at the end the resolution chart is a good reference to see the real story.
note that the d70 has artifacts at the end of its resolving res whereas the 300d does not. seems that at the end you are getter about the same res for both camera but the 300d has less artifact and noise.
the d70 simply cannot produce the nice noise free photo that the 300d can. both have about the same resolution.
I see that the only advantage of the d70 is speed and buffer. whereas the 300d has better image quality to my taste.
Minë Corma hostië të ilyë ar mordossë nutië të
Mornórëo Nóressë yassë i Fuini caitar.
Un thoron arart’a s’un hith mal’kemen ioke.
Saurulmaiel
note that the d70 has artifacts at the end of its resolving res whereas the 300d does not. seems that at the end you are getter about the same res for both camera but the 300d has less artifact and noise.
the d70 simply cannot produce the nice noise free photo that the 300d can. both have about the same resolution.
I see that the only advantage of the d70 is speed and buffer. whereas the 300d has better image quality to my taste.
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Minë Corma hostië të ilyë ar mordossë nutië të
Mornórëo Nóressë yassë i Fuini caitar.
Un thoron arart’a s’un hith mal’kemen ioke.
Saurulmaiel
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