non EX glass (there's no sigma SLR lens forum, so it goes here)

seeing as im on a budget, hence i have persued the SD9, i was wondering what the general census is on non EX sigma glass, in my quiver of lens's, one day, i hope to have the macro covered (for this, i might consider the EX, only because for macro, i need max. details, its one of my more focused ranges) a nice portrait lens, a mid zoom, and i think i'll go the bigma to finish it off, because i have handled this before.... and i might make the splurge one day in the far off future... BUT for now, i need a nice lens to get me started, say, 24-70 or so? and the 70-300 sounds ok, but im not sure about the non EX glass to be honest... any reflections on people that have gone down this non EX glass route with an SD9 or 10?

much oblidged all...

thanks.

wg.
--
may the photo be that which you want others too see.

wguardian79 said:

seeing as im on a budget, hence i have persued the SD9, i was
wondering what the general census is on non EX sigma glass, in my
quiver of lens's, one day,

Click to expand...

The DC lenses and the 70-300APO Macro Super are excellent value and seem to only really lose out to EX glass in aperture speed and CA levels though some of the EXs suffer CA and the 70-300 is very good in this respect.. you can't go far wrong with the SD9 & DC lens kit for starters, add the 50mm EX macro (it makes a stunning normal lens too).

wguardian79 said:

started, say, 24-70 or so?

Click to expand...

The non-EX 24-70 HF is utter junk and to be avoided, stick with the 18-50DC

the SD9 with the DC lens kit is amazing bang for buck - personally I don't think that the SD10 is worth the considerable extra cash (£400 difference between the bodies in the UK - that's pushing 700 US Buckarooz difference!) as all it offers is better high ISO performance and to be honest, if you're after constant high ISO-low light performance you'd be better off with a 10D or Fuji S2 anyway as they have far more sensitive AF and perform even at ISO800 - usable at ISO1600 - there are more image stabilized lenses in the canon range, even budget ones with Ultrasonic motors...

For outdoor photography, the SD9 will better the 6Mp brigade IMO for image quality and lose nothing to the SD10 - the whole rig with the two DC lenses is less cash than one of the 8Mp consumer Digicams..

--
Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

EOS-1D - Sigma SD9 - Canon G5

While you wouldn't like to mimic my results exactly ( as they are below average for this forum) you might want to consider the route I have taken.

Motivation first:

There is no use for mediocre glass on SD9 or SD10. Overkill in the potentially superb resolution of the sensor not matched by the capability of the lens.

My way:

I was lucky enough to buy SD9 24-70EX combination which was perfect to teach me how to get the detail I have seen on the pics posted here.

However, recently I find myself packing this lens only if I plan to shoot the activities I will be participating in ( skiing, hiking, biking, ju-jutstu practice) where the results matter less than sense of participation.

When I have time to plan the shoot I will choose better lenses: primes.

I am too much of an amateur to buy a range of Sigma EX prime lenses, so instead I bought a range of M42 lenses + adapter.

With the single exception of 300mm F4 Olympia which is too difficult for me for its intended subject range the added inconvienience of shooting manual lenses for the best results is minimal - Tripod, remote, viewfinder magnifier, MLU etc. are given, regardless the lens.

I choose 20-70EX less and less, giving priority to light and compact lenses like Flektogon 35mm/2.4, Super Multi Coated Takumar 55/2.8 or Korinar 135mm/ 2.8. Each of them performs superbly as a closeup/macro lens (on bellows or extension ring) Focusing them is easier than focusing 24-70EX manualy because their construction was intended and optimised for it unlike the latter. All these lenses deliver, some of them exploit the native sensor resolution to (and sometimes beyond) its limit.

Last but not least - prices: Flek 35- $50 (in Poland), SMC Takumar 55 - 16 euro in Germany, Korinar 135 $5.91 in US of A.

Just my $0.02,
Wojtek

wguardian79 said:

seeing as im on a budget, hence i have persued the SD9, i was
wondering what the general census is on non EX sigma glass, in my
quiver of lens's, one day, i hope to have the macro covered (for
this, i might consider the EX, only because for macro, i need max.
details, its one of my more focused ranges) a nice portrait lens, a
mid zoom, and i think i'll go the bigma to finish it off, because i
have handled this before.... and i might make the splurge one day
in the far off future... BUT for now, i need a nice lens to get me
started, say, 24-70 or so? and the 70-300 sounds ok, but im not
sure about the non EX glass to be honest... any reflections on
people that have gone down this non EX glass route with an SD9 or
10?

much oblidged all...

thanks.

wg.
--
may the photo be that which you want others too see.

Click to expand...

Thank Adam, exactly the kind of thing i was looking for!

(not being rude wotjek, but i think i am more confused with your post, but thats me, not you as a poster, i appreciate ALL feedback!

Does the 50mm EX Macro really go well as a normal lens? wow, cool, thats an added bonus to me, because right up front, i can get the body, maybe the EX Macro, or the kit len's, so its a choice i have to make, but i really really enjoy my macro photography, so i would have to add this too my collection at some stage in my photographic life.... i may go down this route first, if i can get away with using it as a normal lens too, just to get me by that is...

many many thanks for pointing out the downside of the non EX 24-70, and recommending another lens in its place, thats most helpful!

and yes, the prices (whether used in Oz or new USA) are too good to pass up now, i just wish i had my whole "camera budget" now, i was originally planning on buying the whole get-up in august, so im only halfway to saving now, but as opportunity smiles, we cant turn our backs...

again, thanks for the insightful feedback, it a big helper!

Adam-T said:

Adam-T said:

seeing as im on a budget, hence i have persued the SD9, i was
wondering what the general census is on non EX sigma glass, in my
quiver of lens's, one day,

Click to expand...

The DC lenses and the 70-300APO Macro Super are excellent value and
seem to only really lose out to EX glass in aperture speed and CA
levels though some of the EXs suffer CA and the 70-300 is very good
in this respect.. you can't go far wrong with the SD9 & DC lens kit
for starters, add the 50mm EX macro (it makes a stunning normal
lens too).

Adam-T said:

started, say, 24-70 or so?

Click to expand...

The non-EX 24-70 HF is utter junk and to be avoided, stick with the
18-50DC

the SD9 with the DC lens kit is amazing bang for buck - personally
I don't think that the SD10 is worth the considerable extra cash
(£400 difference between the bodies in the UK - that's pushing 700
US Buckarooz difference!) as all it offers is better high ISO
performance and to be honest, if you're after constant high ISO-low
light performance you'd be better off with a 10D or Fuji S2 anyway
as they have far more sensitive AF and perform even at ISO800 -
usable at ISO1600 - there are more image stabilized lenses in the
canon range, even budget ones with Ultrasonic motors...

For outdoor photography, the SD9 will better the 6Mp brigade IMO
for image quality and lose nothing to the SD10 - the whole rig with
the two DC lenses is less cash than one of the 8Mp consumer
Digicams..

--
Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

EOS-1D - Sigma SD9 - Canon G5

Click to expand...

--
may the photo be that which you want others too see.

Tremendous value for what u r getting.

http://www.cambridgeworld.com/Sigma_35mm_Macro_Lenses/sigma_50mm_f2.8_ex_macro_lens.htm

This looks like a previous incarnation of the current 50mm macro, but hey, for around $100 less thgan the current 50mm macro, it could be a bargain. This lens is probably also very good. Just do a little research on it.

is it possible we petition for sigma slr lens forum?

wguardian79 said:

seeing as im on a budget, hence i have persued the SD9, i was
wondering what the general census is on non EX sigma glass, in my
quiver of lens's, one day, i hope to have the macro covered (for
this, i might consider the EX, only because for macro, i need max.
details, its one of my more focused ranges) a nice portrait lens, a
mid zoom, and i think i'll go the bigma to finish it off, because i
have handled this before.... and i might make the splurge one day
in the far off future... BUT for now, i need a nice lens to get me
started, say, 24-70 or so? and the 70-300 sounds ok, but im not
sure about the non EX glass to be honest... any reflections on
people that have gone down this non EX glass route with an SD9 or
10?

much oblidged all...

thanks.

wg.
--
may the photo be that which you want others too see.

Click to expand...

Once you have your SD9, 50EX and DC lenses, go rooting through dealers used sections for old Sigma mount PRIMES .. there are some TERRIFIC Bargains out there, usually on dealers shelves alongside an old SA film camera they can't shift, dealers who don't stock the SD cameras can't wait to be rid of SA mount lenses they took in part ex ages ago and will almost give them away..

Some classics

24mm F2.8 (Pictured below) almost as sharp as the 50EX but with more CA and can be had for buttons - not too rare, pretty nippy if noisy focussing.

28mm F2.8 (looks similar) not as sharp as the 24 but likely to be even cheaper

14mm F3.5 - Rare in SA mount (common in canon) and reported to being sharper than the 14mm EX HSM - a HELL Of a lot cheaper though, If I see a mint one in Canon mount, I'm grabbing it and having Sigma convert it to SA mount (only possible with Canon/SA NOT Nikon, Pentax or Minolta mounts)..

180mm F2.8 Macro (I think it's 2.8), gotta be worth a look

90mm F2.8 Macro - as good as the 105EX

300mm F4 APO - the HSM version is the real find as it focusses real fast but the slow focussing non-HSM is just as sharp

400mm F5.6 APO Macro - make sure it's BOTH APO AND Macro and you'll have a sharp lens, there is a HSM version too but never seen one.

Keep ya eyes peeled and when you see one, don't forget to mention to the dealer how old they are and how hard it must be to shift OLD SA lenses ;-)

--
Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

EOS-1D - Sigma SD9 - Canon G5

Pic of the 24mm F2.8 prime and a couple of examples followed by some 18-55 and 55-200 DC Examples from the SD9 - the lenses used are marked on the photos



24mm F2.8 Pics









18-50 Pics





55-200 Pics







--
Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

EOS-1D - Sigma SD9 - Canon G5

There is precious little traffic here so really it's fine as it is - also Sigma lenses are sold for Canon and Nikon bodies more than Sigma so you can imagine - DPR Being DPR - all the camera wars which would ensue ..

--
Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

EOS-1D - Sigma SD9 - Canon G5

I kind of having the same thoughts about SD9 and 10, since SD10 is not going to excel in low light situations anyway (it still puzzles me that I saw great night shots as well as unacceptable ones on pbase, still don't know is SD10 really up to it????), maybe SD9 is the way to go, just hope the twin batteries won't bother too much...
hmmm

Adam-T said:

Adam-T said:

seeing as im on a budget, hence i have persued the SD9, i was
wondering what the general census is on non EX sigma glass, in my
quiver of lens's, one day,

Click to expand...

The DC lenses and the 70-300APO Macro Super are excellent value and
seem to only really lose out to EX glass in aperture speed and CA
levels though some of the EXs suffer CA and the 70-300 is very good
in this respect.. you can't go far wrong with the SD9 & DC lens kit
for starters, add the 50mm EX macro (it makes a stunning normal
lens too).

Adam-T said:

started, say, 24-70 or so?

Click to expand...

The non-EX 24-70 HF is utter junk and to be avoided, stick with the
18-50DC

the SD9 with the DC lens kit is amazing bang for buck - personally
I don't think that the SD10 is worth the considerable extra cash
(£400 difference between the bodies in the UK - that's pushing 700
US Buckarooz difference!) as all it offers is better high ISO
performance and to be honest, if you're after constant high ISO-low
light performance you'd be better off with a 10D or Fuji S2 anyway
as they have far more sensitive AF and perform even at ISO800 -
usable at ISO1600 - there are more image stabilized lenses in the
canon range, even budget ones with Ultrasonic motors...

For outdoor photography, the SD9 will better the 6Mp brigade IMO
for image quality and lose nothing to the SD10 - the whole rig with
the two DC lenses is less cash than one of the 8Mp consumer
Digicams..

--
Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

EOS-1D - Sigma SD9 - Canon G5

Click to expand...

wguardian79 said:

seeing as im on a budget, hence i have persued the SD9, i was
wondering what the general census is on non EX sigma glass, in my
quiver of lens's, one day, i hope to have the macro covered (for
this, i might consider the EX, only because for macro, i need max.
details, its one of my more focused ranges) a nice portrait lens, a
mid zoom, and i think i'll go the bigma to finish it off, because i
have handled this before.... and i might make the splurge one day
in the far off future... BUT for now, i need a nice lens to get me
started, say, 24-70 or so? and the 70-300 sounds ok, but im not
sure about the non EX glass to be honest... any reflections on
people that have gone down this non EX glass route with an SD9 or
10?

much oblidged all...

thanks.

wg.
--
may the photo be that which you want others too see.

Click to expand...

--
wg,

If you are budget minded, I would recommended sd9 + 50mm ex macro ($209 at adorama for the lens)...one draw back that it would require you to zoom with your feet...but this combination would be a killer one because you would get one of the sharpest lens from Sigma to go with the camera...the good example of this combination is to take a look at "One lens Seng" galleries...sd9 or sd10 with ONE lens, the 50 ex...
http://www.pbase.com/sphomphanh
Anyway that's may 11cents worth...choose wisely!
ca

'Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great.' Mark Twain

http://www.pbase.com/champa
http://www.pbase.com/sigmasd9/user_sd10
http://www.pbase.com/sigmasd9/user_sd9
http://www.pbase.com/cameras/sigma/sd9
http://www.pbase.com/cameras/sigma/sd10

seeking668 said:

pbase, still don't know is SD10 really up to it????), maybe SD9 is
the way to go, just hope the twin batteries won't bother too much...

Click to expand...

With the SD9 - I've had over 1200 shots from one set of CR123As (the disposable ones) and they're still showing full - with the new Battery tray, i'm getting 475 shots from a set of Hahnel 2350 AAs which cost £8 a set - all I can say is that I wish my £100 1D batteries lasted as long ;-)...

I've read varying reports with the single battery arrangement of the SD10 here, some negative ones posting that more frequent changes are necessary due to the camera part using them as well but let's face it - a 2350Ma h 4.8V battery is better than most Lithium based DSLR setups on paper though they're usually around 1200Ma 7.6V

--
Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

EOS-1D - Sigma SD9 - Canon G5

Adam-T said:

180mm F2.8 Macro (I think it's 2.8), gotta be worth a look

Click to expand...

I picked up one of these when Adam told us all about the 300mm F4 APO from Jessops. The focussing is slow but it is sharp. I haven't seen any CA on any of my shots with this one yet.

Adam-T said:

300mm F4 APO - the HSM version is the real find as it focusses real
fast but the slow focussing non-HSM is just as sharp

Click to expand...

As mentioned above I got one of these at the same time as the 180. Its the HSM version and thus focusses quickly, is sharp and again I haven't seen any CA on any shots with this one either.

They cost me £150 for the pair...

Robin

Thanks Champa, this is what i have decided to source...

Many thanks to Adam also, very informative, and great examples, what more can i ask for??

Thanks all for the input, it is greatly appreciated.

I gave the thought of asking phil for a sigma lens forum, but its true, the rivalry would be fierce... and yet, it could be interesting too, informative yes, but would require alot of sifting and searching for real info.... although, it opens up the ability to display the same shot, using the same sigma lens, on different dslr's, for those lucky enough to own a quiver of cameras....

anyway, as always, all opinions and feedback welcomed...

Champa said:

wguardian79 said:

seeing as im on a budget, hence i have persued the SD9, i was
wondering what the general census is on non EX sigma glass, in my
quiver of lens's, one day, i hope to have the macro covered (for
this, i might consider the EX, only because for macro, i need max.
details, its one of my more focused ranges) a nice portrait lens, a
mid zoom, and i think i'll go the bigma to finish it off, because i
have handled this before.... and i might make the splurge one day
in the far off future... BUT for now, i need a nice lens to get me
started, say, 24-70 or so? and the 70-300 sounds ok, but im not
sure about the non EX glass to be honest... any reflections on
people that have gone down this non EX glass route with an SD9 or
10?

much oblidged all...

thanks.

wg.
--
may the photo be that which you want others too see.

Click to expand...

--
wg,
If you are budget minded, I would recommended sd9 + 50mm ex macro
($209 at adorama for the lens)...one draw back that it would
require you to zoom with your feet...but this combination would be
a killer one because you would get one of the sharpest lens from
Sigma to go with the camera...the good example of this combination
is to take a look at "One lens Seng" galleries...sd9 or sd10 with
ONE lens, the 50 ex...
http://www.pbase.com/sphomphanh
Anyway that's may 11cents worth...choose wisely!
ca
'Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small
people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you,
too, can become great.' Mark Twain

http://www.pbase.com/champa
http://www.pbase.com/sigmasd9/user_sd10
http://www.pbase.com/sigmasd9/user_sd9
http://www.pbase.com/cameras/sigma/sd9
http://www.pbase.com/cameras/sigma/sd10

Click to expand...

--
may the photo be that which you want others too see.

FWIW I got the Sigma 50mm macro. Great lens! Love it! Focussing can be slow if you go from 1:1 to landscape, say. I would have gone for the 100mm but most of what I do is hand held and I found the 100mm too bulky to hold steady.

Tom