Some thoughts on travel to India: chaos and magic

deednets

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I just got back from South-India and thought I would share a few impressions:
  1. On ALL (!!!) trips to India, some major and some rather minor things went pear-shaped. On my last trip, some - rather last minute - flight cancellations (not just delays!!) threw a few large spanners into the works. So, as per usual, some alternative planning needed to be done, just in case.
  2. In the end I took 6 lenses with me, including the never used Tamron 70-300. In hindsight, I should have taken just 3 ... Voigtländer 21/3.5, Sigma 45/2.8 and TT Artisan 75/2 would have been sufficient!
  3. I still get caught up in the odd fantasy version of what locals tell me, e.g. at the administrative office of the Mysore Palace I was told by 3 women working there how the palace would be lit up in the evening, what time I should come, when the "show" would start, how long it would take and when the palace would for 5 minutes be completely lit, like a gigantic firework. 6:30 was the time I was meant to be there, the show would start at 7:00 ... so I arrived at 6:35pm and was told that the palace closed at 5:30, there was no light show and ... you get the picture? I still now and again fall for those little stories of museums, that have burned down and are not open anymore, hotels that are no longer there, train tickets bought the day before only to be told that the train was out of service for at least another 6 months ;-) I typically take everything with a HUGE grain of salt, never really trust those stories, check them out myself, regardless of what the Auto (google it!) driver says ... but then, I still get caught up. Ah, well ...
  4. For many applications, bookings, apps and other platforms for bookings, like taxis (NO Uber/Ola in Goa!!) you need the much dreaded OTP. I have an Indian phone number, but I only ever received one OTP in total for the government run taxi service at Dabolim Airport. There is even en office for the taxis, the drivers outside, abd yet, it needs to be booked via an app, cash not allowed! After 45 minutes the staff there gave up trying to help. 2 days later I then received the OTP with a hint that the OTP would only be valid for 10 minutes ... good fun! I tried to rent cars from at least 5 different companies, but they all insisted that I needed to wait for an OTP, which, you guessed it, never came. 3 companies actually rang me on my OTP number (my phone number!) and tried to help, but after a few hours on 3 consecutive days, I gave up. Change of plan?? Sure!
  5. I also received some lectures about the English language when breakfast at a hotel chain wasn't available, the manager of the restaurant told me that I should have paid more attention to the fine print: it clearly stated on the menu that there were "eggs to order" where it meant that I had to order any kind of breakfast the week before: to order - the operative word!
  6. Shifting of blame a common occurrence, my hotel in Goa didn't take credit cards, because the credit card reader was still in transit and the courier company had failed to deliver it on time ... accidentally increased rates (in my case +9%!!) were a result of third party charging systems, that had nothing to do with the hotel in question.
  7. And *drumroll* another oddity I experienced in Bangalore last week: at a micro brewery, I had to order - sitting IN the restaurant, mind you - online! Sure, can be done, I believe there are now quite a few restaurants and cafés that seem to do that. However (you guessed it??) the much dreaded OTP !!!!!! Since there was some interest to actually sell me some food, they then overrode the system by giving me a manually generated OTP. But: what a song and dance??
These above mentioned points may sound like I am overly critical of the system(s) in place there, but in reality, it doesn't affect me much. Sure, there is the odd frustrating multiple hour chase for a rental car, that never materialized or breakfast that (my fault!!) never arrived as I failed to order ... but in reality, I actually quite like the somewhat less padded way to discover this country. I often laugh WITH the locals about those OTPs or about India possibly being the only country I know where people find it totally acceptable to pass you in the queue at an airline check-in counter. In Bangalore on my way to Dabolim, 8 people passed me by putting one food in front of my foot then dragging their luggage where the foot was, voilà: one step closer to check-in! Hard to believe right?? I could of course make a big fuzz about it and behave badly, but instead I typically start talking to other people in the queue and, like in Bangalore, asked them what they thought of this behaviour ... (yeah, right!). I am sure this will change at some stage, but not exactly sure when.

So, after all this: I really enjoyed my time in India, the food is unbelievably good, the chaos in the streets north of intolerable (if there was a competition for the Guinness Book of Records as to what percentage of the population would push down on the horn simultaneously, regardless of how congested the roads are, India would win!)

Disclaimer: I have been traveling regularly to India for the last 37 years and as such, my impressions are neither the ones of a total newbie, but still have to be taken with a grain of salt, as per usual! ;-) I am also near certain that some people will tell me that I was the only one to ever have any issues there, possible, but unlikely as many Indians confirmed to me the problem with OTPs, but, hey, who knows??

Some photos taken over the last few weeks, C&C welcome as per usual:

Palolem Beach, Goa
Palolem Beach, Goa

Palolem Cows (same beach!)
Palolem Cows (same beach!)

Khola Beach
Khola Beach

Palolem Beach
Palolem Beach

Kochi Fort, Kerala
Kochi Fort, Kerala

Ice cream cart, Fort Kochi
Ice cream cart, Fort Kochi

Fisherman, Fort Kochi
Fisherman, Fort Kochi

Auto driver, actor, Fort Kochi
Auto driver, actor, Fort Kochi

Local woman, Fort Kochi. We did a longer photo shoot ;-)
Local woman, Fort Kochi. We did a longer photo shoot ;-)

Mysore Palace, Karnataka
Mysore Palace, Karnataka

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So, like in the title: lots of chaos, but also a lot of magic! I will certainly be back ...

Deed
 
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Very nice images, thanx for sharing! 👌
 
Lovely pictures, especially the palace interiors.

Closest I've got, so far, is driving past it a couple of times. Must fix that some day. The light show really, really is a thing! Again, I've heard of it, bit not seen it, but I do know that it is not every day. Internet says: Sundays, festivals and public holidays. Try again sometime.

And no. Honest... I'm not part of an elaborate hoax! LOL.
 
That was an entertaining and educational read plus great pics to boot. Thanks for sharing these experiences! Please help me out on one thing: What is an OTP?
Cheers,
Ralf
 
That was an entertaining and educational read plus great pics to boot. Thanks for sharing these experiences! Please help me out on one thing: What is an OTP?
Cheers,
Ralf
One time password or code
 
As a little clarification and explanation for those who haven't been to India:

At the time of the application for an Indian phone number and internet, the process is as follows:
  • You apply for an Indian SIM. pick a plan, then fill out the form.
  • Hand over your passport, the passport will be scanned.
  • A separate micro-video will be taken of you, the video is supposed to show that you are a real person, so you have to blink.
  • All your official data, including your India Visa AND the stamps in your passport will then also be scanned.
  • You are then good to go ...
So, whenever you are asked to provide an OTP, I guess the idea then is, that your application for whatever, is then closely tied to your passport and your visa status. My problem was that often enough all application details are correct but for some reason, the OTP never arrives.

It explains why there is near nil double checks regarding one's payments as it would be easy enough to map the transactions to your passport ... just guessing here, but why else would anybody go though all this without any practical application?

Maybe some of the Indian based users here know a bit more about this? I have felt for the last, what, decade (???) that it was near mandatory to have an Indian phone number when going to India ... as an individual by yourself that is. Group travel may have other ways to bypass OTPs at restaurants etc.

Deed
 
Lovely pictures, especially the palace interiors.

Closest I've got, so far, is driving past it a couple of times. Must fix that some day. The light show really, really is a thing! Again, I've heard of it, bit not seen it, but I do know that it is not every day. Internet says: Sundays, festivals and public holidays. Try again sometime.

And no. Honest... I'm not part of an elaborate hoax! LOL.
 
Nice shots and great travel summary! You been favoring the 75/2 more for portraits or just happened to post 3x shots with it? Sometimes I tend to carry my 50-400 for nothing as well, largely on the promise of a safari or zoo visit that doesn't pan out (the Omaha one is large enough I still haven't seen all of it after multiple visits). I don't mind it too much since I leave it behind on a daily basis and largely rely on 3 primes as well.

What were the other two lenses besides the 70-300 and the 21/45/75?
 
Lovely pictures, especially the palace interiors.

Closest I've got, so far, is driving past it a couple of times. Must fix that some day. The light show really, really is a thing! Again, I've heard of it, bit not seen it, but I do know that it is not every day. Internet says: Sundays, festivals and public holidays. Try again sometime.

And no. Honest... I'm not part of an elaborate hoax! LOL.
Hehe, I found that internet information patchy at best in particular information about camera use in temples or palaces. Restrictions are all over the place, e.g. sometimes nothing is allowed to be used to capture anything, my ratio was about 8 out of 10 places didn't allow anything. Mysore Palace information on the net also patchy. My hotel, 600 meters away, said that no cameras were allowed, some photographic websites also said no. But on one of the more official looking websites, it mentioned that flash wasn't allowed. When I showed up with my A7RV, the first security officer said no. I said: yes and showed him the website. He said my camera wasn't allowed as it could take video. I said I don't do video. A second officer mentioned professional cameras not allowed. I said that I wasn't a professional.
To be fair, that doesn't seem specific to India at all. I hear all the same things around camera rules in the US, just maybe not in museums and churches, more like concert/sport venues, but I even encountered a similar situation in my short stint in Germany while entering a local festival.

It's kinda silly that even as smartphone use saturated the world and they get better and better, there's this need to come down on dedicated camera users as some great threat. I can understand places like the theater and certain performers barring all photography, and certainly museums barring flash photography...

But yeah, everything else is silly, and then security's interpretation of it all is even more loose and annoying.
Since you drive past regularly, you will be familiar with the "nobody knows nothing for certain, but still is in charge" ping-pong?? Great fun, but not very reliable 🙄

But: you should stop your car one day anytime after 10am. It's so worth it!!

Deed
 
As a little clarification and explanation for those who haven't been to India:

At the time of the application for an Indian phone number and internet, the process is as follows:
  • You apply for an Indian SIM. pick a plan, then fill out the form.
  • Hand over your passport, the passport will be scanned.
Huh, I didn't know you had to go thru that for a local SIM, I'd heard some European countries have similar restrictions but since they share the same networks and providers one can just get a SIM for the whole region and sidestep that without ever having to deal with passport etc.

Same in the US, I think people take that for granted during debates about cell service and the companies involved, the US is really large and a single T-Mobile/AT&T/VZW SIM will work just as well throughout the whole country (tho if anyone is coming down to PR be advised that's the one exception z AT&T & VZW will be roaming here, T-Mo will not).
  • A separate micro-video will be taken of you, the video is supposed to show that you are a real person, so you have to blink.
That's become standard in US airports too (the micro clip).
  • All your official data, including your India Visa AND the stamps in your passport will then also be scanned.
  • You are then good to go ...
So, whenever you are asked to provide an OTP, I guess the idea then is, that your application for whatever, is then closely tied to your passport and your visa status. My problem was that often enough all application details are correct but for some reason, the OTP never arrives.

It explains why there is near nil double checks regarding one's payments as it would be easy enough to map the transactions to your passport ... just guessing here, but why else would anybody go though all this without any practical application?

Maybe some of the Indian based users here know a bit more about this? I have felt for the last, what, decade (???) that it was near mandatory to have an Indian phone number when going to India ... as an individual by yourself that is. Group travel may have other ways to bypass OTPs at restaurants etc.

Deed
Long term this seems like a security nightmare, there's a reason we've been trying to move away from SMS messages for 2FA in other areas... It's an unlikely attack vector, but a very vulnerable one nonetheless.
 
Nice shots and great travel summary! You been favoring the 75/2 more for portraits or just happened to post 3x shots with it? Sometimes I tend to carry my 50-400 for nothing as well, largely on the promise of a safari or zoo visit that doesn't pan out (the Omaha one is large enough I still haven't seen all of it after multiple visits). I don't mind it too much since I leave it behind on a daily basis and largely rely on 3 primes as well.

What were the other two lenses besides the 70-300 and the 21/45/75?
I find the 75/2 to suit me better for the way I shoot as I often talk to people before, during and after the shoot ...

The other 2 lenses were the Voigtländer 35/1.4 Nocton Classic and the Sigma 90/2.8:



Sunstars??
Sunstars??



Sigma 90/2.8
Sigma 90/2.8

Deed
 
Lovely pictures, especially the palace interiors.

Closest I've got, so far, is driving past it a couple of times. Must fix that some day. The light show really, really is a thing! Again, I've heard of it, bit not seen it, but I do know that it is not every day. Internet says: Sundays, festivals and public holidays. Try again sometime.

And no. Honest... I'm not part of an elaborate hoax! LOL.
Hehe, I found that internet information patchy at best in particular information about camera use in temples or palaces. Restrictions are all over the place, e.g. sometimes nothing is allowed to be used to capture anything, my ratio was about 8 out of 10 places didn't allow anything. Mysore Palace information on the net also patchy. My hotel, 600 meters away, said that no cameras were allowed, some photographic websites also said no. But on one of the more official looking websites, it mentioned that flash wasn't allowed. When I showed up with my A7RV, the first security officer said no. I said: yes and showed him the website. He said my camera wasn't allowed as it could take video. I said I don't do video. A second officer mentioned professional cameras not allowed. I said that I wasn't a professional.
To be fair, that doesn't seem specific to India at all. I hear all the same things around camera rules in the US, just maybe not in museums and churches, more like concert/sport venues, but I even encountered a similar situation in my short stint in Germany while entering a local festival.

It's kinda silly that even as smartphone use saturated the world and they get better and better, there's this need to come down on dedicated camera users as some great threat. I can understand places like the theater and certain performers barring all photography, and certainly museums barring flash photography...

But yeah, everything else is silly, and then security's interpretation of it all is even more loose and annoying.
Since you drive past regularly, you will be familiar with the "nobody knows nothing for certain, but still is in charge" ping-pong?? Great fun, but not very reliable 🙄

But: you should stop your car one day anytime after 10am. It's so worth it!!

Deed
I don't know you may have more travel experience than I have, but when I compare India to some other countries I travel to regularly, like Thailand, Indonesia, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, China, Japan, Singapore, Hong Kong and a few others, India sticks out. Even the St Joseph"s catholic church in Mysore was off limits for shoes and cameras and also no phones ... what countries were you talking about? My experience in India was roughly 80% of the places I visited were off-limits for any photographic capturing of any type. This may of course be influenced by the destinations I chose ... who nose??? ;-)

Deed
 
Driving Past Mysore Palace: No, no... I don't do it regularly: only twice! We were on our way for a week in the hills, and travelled by cab from Mysore Station.

SIMS, OTPs, visas (and bears, oh my?)... It can be quite tricky to get a SIM at all without
being Indian/resident. You need to find an outlet that knows it can actually be done!

You need ID proof: Hence Passport. It can't be valid longer than your visa: hence passport+visa. Scanning the rest of your passport? That's new; I don't know about that.

I've been very resident here for 20 years. Probably the last time I helped a visitor get a SIM was about 5 years ago.

Do we need a passport to get a SIM? Absolutely not. Most Indians don't have one anyway. But we have this ID card called Aardhaar... and it is getting 'arder and 'arder to do almost anything without one.

I thought everywhere had OTPs these days? My British bank does for online banking. Hmmm maybe they call it "security code" or something. Maybe "OTP" is a particularly Indian usage?

Shoes, Cameras, fees... Can't ever go inside a temple with shoes on. Christian churches may or may not have that rule. Bare feet may not be a part of the religion, but leaving the shoes outside does save on floor cleaning. A religious thing and a hygiene thing. Cameras: different places, different rules. And you may have to buy a camera ticket. and it will cost a lot more for a video camera. And all that regardless of everyone using their phones everywhere. Different fees for locals/foreigners: this always annoys me even though I can pass the "local" requirement usually. Cameras in public, usually no problem (I'm no expert: I'm too shy for street!) whereas it often is in Britain where large amounts of "public" turn out to be privately-owned and come with security guards paid to stop people doing things.

Mostly, I don't think India is that bad. But hey... Does it get easier the longer one spends here? Or do we just stop noticing! It could very well be the latter. I don't find things weird here: I find them weird when I visit the country I was born in!

It's a big country with a huge variety of climate, cultures, geography, music, etc. Visits recommended!
 
Thank you, Deed for sharing your interesting stories and beautiful photos!

Love the portrait pics and the Mysore Palace pics. Well done!!!
 
Driving Past Mysore Palace: No, no... I don't do it regularly: only twice! We were on our way for a week in the hills, and travelled by cab from Mysore Station.

SIMS, OTPs, visas (and bears, oh my?)... It can be quite tricky to get a SIM at all without
being Indian/resident. You need to find an outlet that knows it can actually be done!

You need ID proof: Hence Passport. It can't be valid longer than your visa: hence passport+visa. Scanning the rest of your passport? That's new; I don't know about that.

I've been very resident here for 20 years. Probably the last time I helped a visitor get a SIM was about 5 years ago.

Do we need a passport to get a SIM? Absolutely not. Most Indians don't have one anyway. But we have this ID card called Aardhaar... and it is getting 'arder and 'arder to do almost anything without one.

I thought everywhere had OTPs these days? My British bank does for online banking. Hmmm maybe they call it "security code" or something. Maybe "OTP" is a particularly Indian usage?

Shoes, Cameras, fees... Can't ever go inside a temple with shoes on. Christian churches may or may not have that rule. Bare feet may not be a part of the religion, but leaving the shoes outside does save on floor cleaning. A religious thing and a hygiene thing. Cameras: different places, different rules. And you may have to buy a camera ticket. and it will cost a lot more for a video camera. And all that regardless of everyone using their phones everywhere. Different fees for locals/foreigners: this always annoys me even though I can pass the "local" requirement usually. Cameras in public, usually no problem (I'm no expert: I'm too shy for street!) whereas it often is in Britain where large amounts of "public" turn out to be privately-owned and come with security guards paid to stop people doing things.

Mostly, I don't think India is that bad. But hey... Does it get easier the longer one spends here? Or do we just stop noticing! It could very well be the latter. I don't find things weird here: I find them weird when I visit the country I was born in!

It's a big country with a huge variety of climate, cultures, geography, music, etc. Visits recommended!
I have been visiting regularly since 1988, so have some idea as to how India ticks. So I am aware of camera surcharges, but felt this time that this time round 8 out of 10 places didn't allow ANY photography. I didn't visit any museums except the train museum in Mysore. RS 500.00 just for the camera... and not worth it, unless you are a child. You may know the place, I am talking about the toy train?

I have an Indian phone number. Some places I tried to use it for, rang me on that number, so it does work. The issue is that the OTP technology appears to be rather unreliable, e.gg. getting an OTP 2 days later, saying that THIS OTP is valid for 10 minutes only??

Of the 5 companies I had contacted regarding a rental car in Dabolim, 3 rang me back on my number, but insisted that I needed to wait for the OTP... I did mention that?

10 years ago, I used Cleartrip in India, mainly for train bookings, it worked ok as the OTP wasn't a "thing" then ... but this time I got caught regularly not being able to book. At all. Like that Govt taxi office in Dabolim, they were really, really trying to help, but couldn't. So not just me being the numpty from overseas, who doesn't have a clue. But, like always, India is large and, depending on your selection of places, you may or may not run into some issues. You never had any problems in 20 years? Good for you! But it doesn't matter much, if I am the only one ever to have these issues as that's what mattered to me personally. In Dabolim there was a queue at the taxi office, so at least there I hadn't been the only one to have issues. My number is 89710767xx and still works of course, I used it regularly for calls and text messages, so no malfunction I would think. And, regarding people in India getting SIM cards without ID, again, good on them (you??) Just put it down to me being a foreigner and possibly my inexperience that I appear to keep running into Airtel offices that insist that I let them take copies of my passport. 😉 You think that's just for show and unnecessary? I paid RS 895.00/month with unlimited calls and texts, including 1.5GB/day data, that's what, US$ 9/month? I found that reasonable, but accept if this is part of the tourist-pays-10-fold, like at Mysore Palace, game?

If you think my experience is unique and nobody else is having any issues, do you have some advice as to what I was doing wrong? At Dabolim the people with issues regarding the OTP were exclusively Indians, on most Indigo flights I was the only pakeha, so possibly not just a Western tourist thing??

Dunno...

Deed

P.S.: yes, we also use OTP for security here in NZ, but it rarely ever doesn't work. I work in IT and had a few headache inducing issues with authenticator, but OTPs typically work.
 
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Thank you, Deed for sharing your interesting stories and beautiful photos!

Love the portrait pics and the Mysore Palace pics. Well done!!!
Thank you! If the micro-mechanics of things not working or being cumbersome to figure out, there's a lot of unique stuff to be found there, hence me going back there regularly.

Deed
 
If you think my experience is unique and nobody else is having any issues
Noooo... you misunderstood my answers and the spirit in which they were made. Or, more likely, I worded it badly and came across wrong. Any misunderstand greatly regrated!

Indian bureaucracy is absolutely famous for its idiosyncrasies and difficulties!

There are times when I get annoyed with my wife for not messaging me? She did? Yep! I and I get them a day or two later. Three times each. I have a suspicion that the SMS system may be broken, and nobody wants to fix it, because everybody uses Whatsapp anyway. Except... banks... businesses... a lot of important stuff. And a lot of unnecessary stuff! I usually do get the important ones. But not necessarily first time. Yes, it is annoying.
 
If you think my experience is unique and nobody else is having any issues
Noooo... you misunderstood my answers and the spirit in which they were made. Or, more likely, I worded it badly and came across wrong. Any misunderstand greatly regrated!

Indian bureaucracy is absolutely famous for its idiosyncrasies and difficulties!

There are times when I get annoyed with my wife for not messaging me? She did? Yep! I and I get them a day or two later. Three times each. I have a suspicion that the SMS system may be broken, and nobody wants to fix it, because everybody uses Whatsapp anyway. Except... banks... businesses... a lot of important stuff. And a lot of unnecessary stuff! I usually do get the important ones. But not necessarily first time. Yes, it is annoying.
 
Good info and pics!
 
I really don't know where to go to see tigers! Probably most places are more miss than hit. We don't travel far/often, but do tend to get to one of the Western Ghats areas, for my wife's February birthday, as she likes to be in the clouds, and a little bit cool. Lots of beautiful places, but didn't have much wildlife success with "safaris." Saw more from the car on ordinary roads!

But yes, a small sample. And the next guy might have seen lots of tigers there.

All the best :)
 

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