A7RIII IBIS and AF — feeling underwhelmed

TN Args said:

The main thing missing from my previous camera is long fractions of a second, eg ⅓ or ½ sec are not doable.

Click to expand...

TN Args said:

With a 28-200mm I am comfortable shooting 2 stops slower than 1/FL, which equates to 3 stops of IS because the old 1/FL is not a good rule for modern high-MP cameras (ref Jim Kasson tests). Three stops means it's great to have.

Click to expand...

TN Args said:

I honestly find the AF to be very satisfactory indeed.

Click to expand...

TN Args said:

SAF for me is always spot on unless I have chosen too large an area or not positioned the area properly, ie my fault.

Click to expand...

TN Args said:

There are also two levels of SAF pinpoint magnification that I activate with the control wheel centre button and allow precision pinpoint focusing. CAF allows me to do BIF with enough of a success rate to feel that I am getting the best shots with one in focus. Eye after doesn't let me down.

Click to expand...

TN Args said:

I once made a list of the a7R III vs A7R II because some people suggest it is almost the same camera,

Click to expand...

TN Args said:

and this is my list:

Compared to a7R II

• ETTR raw still photo exposure using HLG
• Battery life
• New low-vibration shutter
• Joystick
• AF improvements to speed 10fps vs 5fps, tracking
• Custom buttons can change camera settings while holding button down
• Deeper grip
• Video 4K oversampling and log profiles
• Weathersealing upgrade (except the base) (p.s. battery grip can weatherseal the base)
• 14 bit uncompressed available in C-AF
• Pixel shift for no moire or blur

Click to expand...

TN Args said:

• Touchscreen

Click to expand...

TN Args said:

• Much better AF with adapters

Click to expand...

TN Args said:

• Menu tidy up
• More DR

Click to expand...

TN Args said:

• Bluetooth

Click to expand...

TN Args said:

cheers

Click to expand...

RaysJ said:

Adam Palmer said:

I'm not sure who came up with the 5 stop IBIS numbers but I agree with everyone here who says it gets you a couple stops. I remember having big dreams for it too and being a bit disappointed. It was never my main reason for upgrading though. I have yet to get a body with the latest IBIS which I think you might like a little better.

Click to expand...

Sony claimed that.

Click to expand...

RaysJ said:

AlephNull said:

Ralf B said:

jeevhi said:

I am a long-time orig A7R user, shooting with a few GM lenses (24/1.4, 35/1.4, 50/1.4, and 135/1.8). I recently picked up the A7RIII mainly for the IBIS and improved AF, but honestly, the experience so far has been a bit underwhelming — especially considering the added weight. It has the latest firmware 3.10

IBIS: With the original A7R, my usual practice is to shoot around 1/(2×FL) shutter speed and getting pretty consistent results in decent light. With the A7RIII and its claimed 5 stops of IBIS, I expected to comfortably shoot around 2/FL or even 3/FL. But in real-world use (with both the 50 and 135mm), anything slower than 1/FL is unusable. That’s about one stop of improvement at best, or may be 2 stop if error on my part but nowhere close to the advertised 5 stops. Maybe I’m doing something wrong, but the difference feels marginal.

I have been shooting for years without IBIS and have a pretty steady hand, so I don’t think this is a technique issue.

Click to expand...

Have you tried to shoot your A7RIII in EFSC or even full electronic shutter mode to see if there is a difference in handheld shooting with critically long exposure times, compared to shooting with full mechanical shutter?
If not, I would recommend to try that. Why that?

I developped a preference for EFSC for handheld shots based on the shooting experience with my A7IV, which in full mech shutter mode has a shutter shock impulse I consider rather noticable. That impulse may have an impact on handheld shots, so unless I shoot something that would benefit from full mech shutter like a fast lens wide open, I shoot it in EFSC as default shutter mode.
Besides, my A7C2 only has EFSC anyway and its shutter sound and impulse I consider significantly softer.
Cheers,
Ralf

Click to expand...

Electronic First Curtain Shutter = EFCS

Click to expand...

I'm using Silent Shutter mode. 2 stops is very underwhelming. This is easily beaten by 20 year old zooms.

Click to expand...

UncleVanya said:

RaysJ said:

Adam Palmer said:

I'm not sure who came up with the 5 stop IBIS numbers but I agree with everyone here who says it gets you a couple stops. I remember having big dreams for it too and being a bit disappointed. It was never my main reason for upgrading though. I have yet to get a body with the latest IBIS which I think you might like a little better.

Click to expand...

Sony claimed that.

Click to expand...

And dpreview tested it. https://m.dpreview.com/articles/5876118090/image-stablization-showdown-nikon-z7-vs-sony-a7r-iii

Better outcome than I realized.

Click to expand...

UncleVanya said:

RaysJ said:

AlephNull said:

Ralf B said:

jeevhi said:

I am a long-time orig A7R user, shooting with a few GM lenses (24/1.4, 35/1.4, 50/1.4, and 135/1.8). I recently picked up the A7RIII mainly for the IBIS and improved AF, but honestly, the experience so far has been a bit underwhelming — especially considering the added weight. It has the latest firmware 3.10

IBIS: With the original A7R, my usual practice is to shoot around 1/(2×FL) shutter speed and getting pretty consistent results in decent light. With the A7RIII and its claimed 5 stops of IBIS, I expected to comfortably shoot around 2/FL or even 3/FL. But in real-world use (with both the 50 and 135mm), anything slower than 1/FL is unusable. That’s about one stop of improvement at best, or may be 2 stop if error on my part but nowhere close to the advertised 5 stops. Maybe I’m doing something wrong, but the difference feels marginal.

I have been shooting for years without IBIS and have a pretty steady hand, so I don’t think this is a technique issue.

Click to expand...

Have you tried to shoot your A7RIII in EFSC or even full electronic shutter mode to see if there is a difference in handheld shooting with critically long exposure times, compared to shooting with full mechanical shutter?
If not, I would recommend to try that. Why that?

I developped a preference for EFSC for handheld shots based on the shooting experience with my A7IV, which in full mech shutter mode has a shutter shock impulse I consider rather noticable. That impulse may have an impact on handheld shots, so unless I shoot something that would benefit from full mech shutter like a fast lens wide open, I shoot it in EFSC as default shutter mode.
Besides, my A7C2 only has EFSC anyway and its shutter sound and impulse I consider significantly softer.
Cheers,
Ralf

Click to expand...

Electronic First Curtain Shutter = EFCS

Click to expand...

I'm using Silent Shutter mode. 2 stops is very underwhelming. This is easily beaten by 20 year old zooms.

Click to expand...

https://m.dpreview.com/articles/5876118090/image-stablization-showdown-nikon-z7-vs-sony-a7r-iii

Click to expand...

RaysJ said:

UncleVanya said:

RaysJ said:

AlephNull said:

Ralf B said:

jeevhi said:

I am a long-time orig A7R user, shooting with a few GM lenses (24/1.4, 35/1.4, 50/1.4, and 135/1.8). I recently picked up the A7RIII mainly for the IBIS and improved AF, but honestly, the experience so far has been a bit underwhelming — especially considering the added weight. It has the latest firmware 3.10

IBIS: With the original A7R, my usual practice is to shoot around 1/(2×FL) shutter speed and getting pretty consistent results in decent light. With the A7RIII and its claimed 5 stops of IBIS, I expected to comfortably shoot around 2/FL or even 3/FL. But in real-world use (with both the 50 and 135mm), anything slower than 1/FL is unusable. That’s about one stop of improvement at best, or may be 2 stop if error on my part but nowhere close to the advertised 5 stops. Maybe I’m doing something wrong, but the difference feels marginal.

I have been shooting for years without IBIS and have a pretty steady hand, so I don’t think this is a technique issue.

Click to expand...

Have you tried to shoot your A7RIII in EFSC or even full electronic shutter mode to see if there is a difference in handheld shooting with critically long exposure times, compared to shooting with full mechanical shutter?
If not, I would recommend to try that. Why that?

I developped a preference for EFSC for handheld shots based on the shooting experience with my A7IV, which in full mech shutter mode has a shutter shock impulse I consider rather noticable. That impulse may have an impact on handheld shots, so unless I shoot something that would benefit from full mech shutter like a fast lens wide open, I shoot it in EFSC as default shutter mode.
Besides, my A7C2 only has EFSC anyway and its shutter sound and impulse I consider significantly softer.
Cheers,
Ralf

Click to expand...

Electronic First Curtain Shutter = EFCS

Click to expand...

I'm using Silent Shutter mode. 2 stops is very underwhelming. This is easily beaten by 20 year old zooms.

Click to expand...

https://m.dpreview.com/articles/5876118090/image-stablization-showdown-nikon-z7-vs-sony-a7r-iii

Click to expand...

But that Sony lens at 200mm has OSS on the lens or did they turn it off on the lens and just use the IBIS on the camera? Not sure if that is possible.

Click to expand...

SafariBob said:

SafariBob said:

TN Args wrote:
The main (IBIS) thing missing from my previous camera is long fractions of a second, eg ⅓ or ½ sec are not doable.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

SafariBob said:

agree.

SafariBob said:

With a 28-200mm I am comfortable shooting 2 stops slower than 1/FL, which equates to 3 stops of IS because the old 1/FL is not a good rule for modern high-MP cameras (ref Jim Kasson tests). Three stops means it's great to have.

Click to expand...

i don’t think this is an apples to apples comparison. Maybe you can shoot 2 stops slower than 1/fl in certain conditions. But to me, it feels a bit chuck Norris. I am getting similar pixel level sharpness 1 stop slower with ibis turned on vs off. How someone is able to regularly squeeze out two extra stops sounds like voodoo.

SafariBob said:

I honestly find the AF to be very satisfactory indeed.

Click to expand...

agree

SafariBob said:

SAF for me is always spot on unless I have chosen too large an area or not positioned the area properly, ie my fault.

Click to expand...

yes

SafariBob said:

There are also two levels of SAF pinpoint magnification that I activate with the control wheel centre button and allow precision pinpoint focusing. CAF allows me to do BIF with enough of a success rate to feel that I am getting the best shots with one in focus. Eye after doesn't let me down.

Click to expand...

unsure what this means

Click to expand...

SafariBob said:

SafariBob said:

I once made a list of the a7R III vs A7R II because some people suggest it is almost the same camera,

Click to expand...

it is. Except the battery and the sooc JPEGs.

SafariBob said:

and this is my list:

Compared to a7R II

• ETTR raw still photo exposure using HLG
• Battery life
• New low-vibration shutter
• Joystick
• AF improvements to speed 10fps vs 5fps, tracking
• Custom buttons can change camera settings while holding button down
• Deeper grip
• Video 4K oversampling and log profiles
• Weathersealing upgrade (except the base) (p.s. battery grip can weatherseal the base)
• 14 bit uncompressed available in C-AF
• Pixel shift for no moire or blur

Click to expand...

with the exception of battery life, are any of these material?

Click to expand...

SafariBob said:

SafariBob said:

• Touchscreen

Click to expand...

?

Click to expand...

SafariBob said:

SafariBob said:

• Much better AF with adapters

Click to expand...

??

Click to expand...

SafariBob said:

SafariBob said:

• Menu tidy up
• More DR

Click to expand...

?

Click to expand...

SafariBob said:

SafariBob said:

• Bluetooth

Click to expand...

yes. But it doesn’t work well.

Click to expand...

TN Args said:

SafariBob said:

TN Args said:

TN Args wrote:
The main (IBIS) thing missing from my previous camera is long fractions of a second, eg ⅓ or ½ sec are not doable.

Click to expand...

agree.

TN Args said:

With a 28-200mm I am comfortable shooting 2 stops slower than 1/FL, which equates to 3 stops of IS because the old 1/FL is not a good rule for modern high-MP cameras (ref Jim Kasson tests). Three stops means it's great to have.

Click to expand...

i don’t think this is an apples to apples comparison. Maybe you can shoot 2 stops slower than 1/fl in certain conditions. But to me, it feels a bit chuck Norris. I am getting similar pixel level sharpness 1 stop slower with ibis turned on vs off. How someone is able to regularly squeeze out two extra stops sounds like voodoo.

TN Args said:

I honestly find the AF to be very satisfactory indeed.

Click to expand...

agree

TN Args said:

SAF for me is always spot on unless I have chosen too large an area or not positioned the area properly, ie my fault.

Click to expand...

yes

TN Args said:

There are also two levels of SAF pinpoint magnification that I activate with the control wheel centre button and allow precision pinpoint focusing. CAF allows me to do BIF with enough of a success rate to feel that I am getting the best shots with one in focus. Eye after doesn't let me down.

Click to expand...

unsure what this means

Click to expand...

Autocomplete error. I actually typed "Eye AF doesn't let me down".

TN Args said:

TN Args said:

I once made a list of the a7R III vs A7R II because some people suggest it is almost the same camera,

Click to expand...

it is. Except the battery and the sooc JPEGs.

TN Args said:

and this is my list:

Compared to a7R II

• ETTR raw still photo exposure using HLG
• Battery life
• New low-vibration shutter
• Joystick
• AF improvements to speed 10fps vs 5fps, tracking
• Custom buttons can change camera settings while holding button down
• Deeper grip
• Video 4K oversampling and log profiles
• Weathersealing upgrade (except the base) (p.s. battery grip can weatherseal the base)
• 14 bit uncompressed available in C-AF
• Pixel shift for no moire or blur

Click to expand...

with the exception of battery life, are any of these material?

Click to expand...

All are material or not, depending on the priorities of the owner. I find it very useful to see raw clipping potential in the screen preview (first dot point above). Joysticks are very useful to some owners (DPR recognises this in valuing it highly). Weathersealing is very important to some people. AF improvements too. Even pixel shift can be valuable to still life shooters.

TN Args said:

TN Args said:

• Touchscreen

Click to expand...

?

Click to expand...

? back at you. Say what you mean, please.

Click to expand...

TN Args said:

TN Args said:

TN Args said:

• Much better AF with adapters

Click to expand...

??

Click to expand...

? back at you. Say what you mean, please.

Click to expand...

TN Args said:

TN Args said:

TN Args said:

• Menu tidy up
• More DR

Click to expand...

?

Click to expand...

? back at you. Say what you mean, please.

Click to expand...

TN Args said:

TN Args said:

TN Args said:

• Bluetooth

Click to expand...

yes. But it doesn’t work well.

Click to expand...

Mine does.

Click to expand...

ahaslett said:

UncleVanya said:

RaysJ said:

Adam Palmer said:

I'm not sure who came up with the 5 stop IBIS numbers but I agree with everyone here who says it gets you a couple stops. I remember having big dreams for it too and being a bit disappointed. It was never my main reason for upgrading though. I have yet to get a body with the latest IBIS which I think you might like a little better.

Click to expand...

Sony claimed that.

Click to expand...

And dpreview tested it. https://m.dpreview.com/articles/5876118090/image-stablization-showdown-nikon-z7-vs-sony-a7r-iii

Better outcome than I realized.

Click to expand...

Practise with your OM1 using IS Assist display at say 150mm and an A7Rxx at 300mm.

Andrew

Click to expand...

RaysJ said:

UncleVanya said:

RaysJ said:

AlephNull said:

Ralf B said:

jeevhi said:

I am a long-time orig A7R user, shooting with a few GM lenses (24/1.4, 35/1.4, 50/1.4, and 135/1.8). I recently picked up the A7RIII mainly for the IBIS and improved AF, but honestly, the experience so far has been a bit underwhelming — especially considering the added weight. It has the latest firmware 3.10

IBIS: With the original A7R, my usual practice is to shoot around 1/(2×FL) shutter speed and getting pretty consistent results in decent light. With the A7RIII and its claimed 5 stops of IBIS, I expected to comfortably shoot around 2/FL or even 3/FL. But in real-world use (with both the 50 and 135mm), anything slower than 1/FL is unusable. That’s about one stop of improvement at best, or may be 2 stop if error on my part but nowhere close to the advertised 5 stops. Maybe I’m doing something wrong, but the difference feels marginal.

I have been shooting for years without IBIS and have a pretty steady hand, so I don’t think this is a technique issue.

Click to expand...

Have you tried to shoot your A7RIII in EFSC or even full electronic shutter mode to see if there is a difference in handheld shooting with critically long exposure times, compared to shooting with full mechanical shutter?
If not, I would recommend to try that. Why that?

I developped a preference for EFSC for handheld shots based on the shooting experience with my A7IV, which in full mech shutter mode has a shutter shock impulse I consider rather noticable. That impulse may have an impact on handheld shots, so unless I shoot something that would benefit from full mech shutter like a fast lens wide open, I shoot it in EFSC as default shutter mode.
Besides, my A7C2 only has EFSC anyway and its shutter sound and impulse I consider significantly softer.
Cheers,
Ralf

Click to expand...

Electronic First Curtain Shutter = EFCS

Click to expand...

I'm using Silent Shutter mode. 2 stops is very underwhelming. This is easily beaten by 20 year old zooms.

Click to expand...

https://m.dpreview.com/articles/5876118090/image-stablization-showdown-nikon-z7-vs-sony-a7r-iii

Click to expand...

But that Sony lens at 200mm has OSS on the lens or did they turn it off on the lens and just use the IBIS on the camera? Not sure if that is possible.

Click to expand...

UncleVanya said:

RaysJ said:

UncleVanya said:

RaysJ said:

AlephNull said:

Ralf B said:

jeevhi said:

I am a long-time orig A7R user, shooting with a few GM lenses (24/1.4, 35/1.4, 50/1.4, and 135/1.8). I recently picked up the A7RIII mainly for the IBIS and improved AF, but honestly, the experience so far has been a bit underwhelming — especially considering the added weight. It has the latest firmware 3.10

IBIS: With the original A7R, my usual practice is to shoot around 1/(2×FL) shutter speed and getting pretty consistent results in decent light. With the A7RIII and its claimed 5 stops of IBIS, I expected to comfortably shoot around 2/FL or even 3/FL. But in real-world use (with both the 50 and 135mm), anything slower than 1/FL is unusable. That’s about one stop of improvement at best, or may be 2 stop if error on my part but nowhere close to the advertised 5 stops. Maybe I’m doing something wrong, but the difference feels marginal.

I have been shooting for years without IBIS and have a pretty steady hand, so I don’t think this is a technique issue.

Click to expand...

Have you tried to shoot your A7RIII in EFSC or even full electronic shutter mode to see if there is a difference in handheld shooting with critically long exposure times, compared to shooting with full mechanical shutter?
If not, I would recommend to try that. Why that?

I developped a preference for EFSC for handheld shots based on the shooting experience with my A7IV, which in full mech shutter mode has a shutter shock impulse I consider rather noticable. That impulse may have an impact on handheld shots, so unless I shoot something that would benefit from full mech shutter like a fast lens wide open, I shoot it in EFSC as default shutter mode.
Besides, my A7C2 only has EFSC anyway and its shutter sound and impulse I consider significantly softer.
Cheers,
Ralf

Click to expand...

Electronic First Curtain Shutter = EFCS

Click to expand...

I'm using Silent Shutter mode. 2 stops is very underwhelming. This is easily beaten by 20 year old zooms.

Click to expand...

https://m.dpreview.com/articles/5876118090/image-stablization-showdown-nikon-z7-vs-sony-a7r-iii

Click to expand...

But that Sony lens at 200mm has OSS on the lens or did they turn it off on the lens and just use the IBIS on the camera? Not sure if that is possible.

Click to expand...

You are correct. I don't have a clean test with only IBIS at all focal lengths. The lower focal length results however were IBIS only. They still exceeded my expectations.

Click to expand...

UncleVanya said:

ahaslett said:

UncleVanya said:

RaysJ said:

Adam Palmer said:

I'm not sure who came up with the 5 stop IBIS numbers but I agree with everyone here who says it gets you a couple stops. I remember having big dreams for it too and being a bit disappointed. It was never my main reason for upgrading though. I have yet to get a body with the latest IBIS which I think you might like a little better.

Click to expand...

Sony claimed that.

Click to expand...

And dpreview tested it. https://m.dpreview.com/articles/5876118090/image-stablization-showdown-nikon-z7-vs-sony-a7r-iii

Better outcome than I realized.

Click to expand...

Practise with your OM1 using IS Assist display at say 150mm and an A7Rxx at 300mm.

Andrew

Click to expand...

My OM-1 with the 40-150 is not really that much better than the A7RV with the 70-200 G2 F4 and the 1.4x TC. That's 280mm not 300 but close. That compares both systems with combined IBIS and OIS. The Tamron 70-300mm is not as good relying only on IBIS.

The A7RIII - not so much.

But the IS Assist display option is one that I don't worry over. I am more concerned with the snap not the leadup. Admittedly the assist may be more pleasant to use.

Click to expand...

SafariBob said:

TN Args said:

SafariBob said:

SafariBob said:

TN Args wrote:
The main (IBIS) thing missing from my previous camera is long fractions of a second, eg ⅓ or ½ sec are not doable.

Click to expand...

agree.

SafariBob said:

With a 28-200mm I am comfortable shooting 2 stops slower than 1/FL, which equates to 3 stops of IS because the old 1/FL is not a good rule for modern high-MP cameras (ref Jim Kasson tests). Three stops means it's great to have.

Click to expand...

i don’t think this is an apples to apples comparison. Maybe you can shoot 2 stops slower than 1/fl in certain conditions. But to me, it feels a bit chuck Norris. I am getting similar pixel level sharpness 1 stop slower with ibis turned on vs off. How someone is able to regularly squeeze out two extra stops sounds like voodoo.

SafariBob said:

I honestly find the AF to be very satisfactory indeed.

Click to expand...

agree

SafariBob said:

SAF for me is always spot on unless I have chosen too large an area or not positioned the area properly, ie my fault.

Click to expand...

yes

SafariBob said:

There are also two levels of SAF pinpoint magnification that I activate with the control wheel centre button and allow precision pinpoint focusing. CAF allows me to do BIF with enough of a success rate to feel that I am getting the best shots with one in focus. Eye after doesn't let me down.

Click to expand...

unsure what this means

Click to expand...

Autocomplete error. I actually typed "Eye AF doesn't let me down".

SafariBob said:

SafariBob said:

I once made a list of the a7R III vs A7R II because some people suggest it is almost the same camera,

Click to expand...

it is. Except the battery and the sooc JPEGs.

SafariBob said:

and this is my list:

Compared to a7R II

• ETTR raw still photo exposure using HLG
• Battery life
• New low-vibration shutter
• Joystick
• AF improvements to speed 10fps vs 5fps, tracking
• Custom buttons can change camera settings while holding button down
• Deeper grip
• Video 4K oversampling and log profiles
• Weathersealing upgrade (except the base) (p.s. battery grip can weatherseal the base)
• 14 bit uncompressed available in C-AF
• Pixel shift for no moire or blur

Click to expand...

with the exception of battery life, are any of these material?

Click to expand...

All are material or not, depending on the priorities of the owner. I find it very useful to see raw clipping potential in the screen preview (first dot point above). Joysticks are very useful to some owners (DPR recognises this in valuing it highly). Weathersealing is very important to some people. AF improvements too. Even pixel shift can be valuable to still life shooters.

SafariBob said:

SafariBob said:

• Touchscreen

Click to expand...

?

Click to expand...

? back at you. Say what you mean, please.

Click to expand...

i don’t think it’s a touch screen.

Click to expand...

SafariBob said:

SafariBob said:

SafariBob said:

SafariBob said:

• Much better AF with adapters

Click to expand...

??

Click to expand...

? back at you. Say what you mean, please.

Click to expand...

If there is facts to back this up, I will yield. But my understanding is that the basic af is the same, same sensor, same processor. Maybe the Lsi chip makes a difference, I don’t know.

Click to expand...

SafariBob said:

SafariBob said:

SafariBob said:

SafariBob said:

• Menu tidy up
• More DR

Click to expand...

?

Click to expand...

? back at you. Say what you mean, please.

Click to expand...

same sensor

Click to expand...

SafariBob said:

SafariBob said:

SafariBob said:

SafariBob said:

• Bluetooth

Click to expand...

yes. But it doesn’t work well.

Click to expand...

Mine does.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

TN Args said:

SafariBob said:

TN Args said:

SafariBob said:

TN Args said:

TN Args wrote:
The main (IBIS) thing missing from my previous camera is long fractions of a second, eg ⅓ or ½ sec are not doable.

Click to expand...

agree.

TN Args said:

With a 28-200mm I am comfortable shooting 2 stops slower than 1/FL, which equates to 3 stops of IS because the old 1/FL is not a good rule for modern high-MP cameras (ref Jim Kasson tests). Three stops means it's great to have.

Click to expand...

i don’t think this is an apples to apples comparison. Maybe you can shoot 2 stops slower than 1/fl in certain conditions. But to me, it feels a bit chuck Norris. I am getting similar pixel level sharpness 1 stop slower with ibis turned on vs off. How someone is able to regularly squeeze out two extra stops sounds like voodoo.

TN Args said:

I honestly find the AF to be very satisfactory indeed.

Click to expand...

agree

TN Args said:

SAF for me is always spot on unless I have chosen too large an area or not positioned the area properly, ie my fault.

Click to expand...

yes

TN Args said:

There are also two levels of SAF pinpoint magnification that I activate with the control wheel centre button and allow precision pinpoint focusing. CAF allows me to do BIF with enough of a success rate to feel that I am getting the best shots with one in focus. Eye after doesn't let me down.

Click to expand...

unsure what this means

Click to expand...

Autocomplete error. I actually typed "Eye AF doesn't let me down".

TN Args said:

TN Args said:

I once made a list of the a7R III vs A7R II because some people suggest it is almost the same camera,

Click to expand...

it is. Except the battery and the sooc JPEGs.

TN Args said:

and this is my list:

Compared to a7R II

• ETTR raw still photo exposure using HLG
• Battery life
• New low-vibration shutter
• Joystick
• AF improvements to speed 10fps vs 5fps, tracking
• Custom buttons can change camera settings while holding button down
• Deeper grip
• Video 4K oversampling and log profiles
• Weathersealing upgrade (except the base) (p.s. battery grip can weatherseal the base)
• 14 bit uncompressed available in C-AF
• Pixel shift for no moire or blur

Click to expand...

with the exception of battery life, are any of these material?

Click to expand...

All are material or not, depending on the priorities of the owner. I find it very useful to see raw clipping potential in the screen preview (first dot point above). Joysticks are very useful to some owners (DPR recognises this in valuing it highly). Weathersealing is very important to some people. AF improvements too. Even pixel shift can be valuable to still life shooters.

TN Args said:

TN Args said:

• Touchscreen

Click to expand...

?

Click to expand...

? back at you. Say what you mean, please.

Click to expand...

i don’t think it’s a touch screen.

Click to expand...

It is. I won't say it's great (it isn't, but I have used it for touch AF point while using the EVF) if you won't say it's missing. ;-)

TN Args said:

TN Args said:

TN Args said:

TN Args said:

• Much better AF with adapters

Click to expand...

??

Click to expand...

? back at you. Say what you mean, please.

Click to expand...

If there is facts to back this up, I will yield. But my understanding is that the basic af is the same, same sensor, same processor. Maybe the Lsi chip makes a difference, I don’t know.

Click to expand...

I tried to find where I saw this at the time of making my purchase decision, but cannot. I have never owned the A7RII but researched the comparisons extensively to see if the extra cost of the A7RIII was worthwhile for me personally. Sorry. I can say that the joystick (and sharper EVF) enables a nicer focusing workflow with MF lenses (many of which are on adapters), link.

More broadly re AF, the A7RIII works with phase detection at slower apertures and lower light conditions than the RII before switching to contrast detection. And Eye AF is reported to be much stickier eg mirrorless lessons, and works with adapted AF lenses. Plus it has animal Eye AF.

TN Args said:

TN Args said:

TN Args said:

TN Args said:

• Menu tidy up
• More DR

Click to expand...

?

Click to expand...

? back at you. Say what you mean, please.

Click to expand...

same sensor

Click to expand...

It's a Sony claim. But P2P data only shows a quarter stop. I'll agree, this one's not material.

TN Args said:

TN Args said:

TN Args said:

TN Args said:

• Bluetooth

Click to expand...

yes. But it doesn’t work well.

Click to expand...

Mine does.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

cheers

Click to expand...

TN Args said:

I won't say it's great (it isn't, but I have used it for touch AF point while using the EVF) if you won't say it's missing. ;-)

Click to expand...

TN Args said:

I have never owned the A7RII but researched the comparisons extensively to see if the extra cost of the A7RIII was worthwhile for me personally. Sorry. I can say that the joystick (and sharper EVF) enables a nicer focusing workflow with MF lenses (many of which are on adapters),

Click to expand...

RaysJ said:

UncleVanya said:

RaysJ said:

UncleVanya said:

RaysJ said:

AlephNull said:

Ralf B said:

jeevhi said:

I am a long-time orig A7R user, shooting with a few GM lenses (24/1.4, 35/1.4, 50/1.4, and 135/1.8). I recently picked up the A7RIII mainly for the IBIS and improved AF, but honestly, the experience so far has been a bit underwhelming — especially considering the added weight. It has the latest firmware 3.10

IBIS: With the original A7R, my usual practice is to shoot around 1/(2×FL) shutter speed and getting pretty consistent results in decent light. With the A7RIII and its claimed 5 stops of IBIS, I expected to comfortably shoot around 2/FL or even 3/FL. But in real-world use (with both the 50 and 135mm), anything slower than 1/FL is unusable. That’s about one stop of improvement at best, or may be 2 stop if error on my part but nowhere close to the advertised 5 stops. Maybe I’m doing something wrong, but the difference feels marginal.

I have been shooting for years without IBIS and have a pretty steady hand, so I don’t think this is a technique issue.

Click to expand...

Have you tried to shoot your A7RIII in EFSC or even full electronic shutter mode to see if there is a difference in handheld shooting with critically long exposure times, compared to shooting with full mechanical shutter?
If not, I would recommend to try that. Why that?

I developped a preference for EFSC for handheld shots based on the shooting experience with my A7IV, which in full mech shutter mode has a shutter shock impulse I consider rather noticable. That impulse may have an impact on handheld shots, so unless I shoot something that would benefit from full mech shutter like a fast lens wide open, I shoot it in EFSC as default shutter mode.
Besides, my A7C2 only has EFSC anyway and its shutter sound and impulse I consider significantly softer.
Cheers,
Ralf

Click to expand...

Electronic First Curtain Shutter = EFCS

Click to expand...

I'm using Silent Shutter mode. 2 stops is very underwhelming. This is easily beaten by 20 year old zooms.

Click to expand...

https://m.dpreview.com/articles/5876118090/image-stablization-showdown-nikon-z7-vs-sony-a7r-iii

Click to expand...

But that Sony lens at 200mm has OSS on the lens or did they turn it off on the lens and just use the IBIS on the camera? Not sure if that is possible.

Click to expand...

You are correct. I don't have a clean test with only IBIS at all focal lengths. The lower focal length results however were IBIS only. They still exceeded my expectations.

Click to expand...

On my Sony 20-70 which does not have IS, l was getting 2 stops, ie 1/15 at 70mm, consistanlly, 1/8 was not so sharp. I was using Silent shutter. I was focussing on a car 30mm away and checking the number plate.

Click to expand...

RaysJ said:

Seems Sony claim a lot of things.

Reading a review of the 70-200/4 lens, compared to the Canon 70-200/4, the 200mm on the Sony is matched at 163mm on the Canon.

Click to expand...

UncleVanya said:

RaysJ said:

UncleVanya said:

RaysJ said:

UncleVanya said:

RaysJ said:

AlephNull said:

Ralf B said:

jeevhi said:

I am a long-time orig A7R user, shooting with a few GM lenses (24/1.4, 35/1.4, 50/1.4, and 135/1.8). I recently picked up the A7RIII mainly for the IBIS and improved AF, but honestly, the experience so far has been a bit underwhelming — especially considering the added weight. It has the latest firmware 3.10

IBIS: With the original A7R, my usual practice is to shoot around 1/(2×FL) shutter speed and getting pretty consistent results in decent light. With the A7RIII and its claimed 5 stops of IBIS, I expected to comfortably shoot around 2/FL or even 3/FL. But in real-world use (with both the 50 and 135mm), anything slower than 1/FL is unusable. That’s about one stop of improvement at best, or may be 2 stop if error on my part but nowhere close to the advertised 5 stops. Maybe I’m doing something wrong, but the difference feels marginal.

I have been shooting for years without IBIS and have a pretty steady hand, so I don’t think this is a technique issue.

Click to expand...

Have you tried to shoot your A7RIII in EFSC or even full electronic shutter mode to see if there is a difference in handheld shooting with critically long exposure times, compared to shooting with full mechanical shutter?
If not, I would recommend to try that. Why that?

I developped a preference for EFSC for handheld shots based on the shooting experience with my A7IV, which in full mech shutter mode has a shutter shock impulse I consider rather noticable. That impulse may have an impact on handheld shots, so unless I shoot something that would benefit from full mech shutter like a fast lens wide open, I shoot it in EFSC as default shutter mode.
Besides, my A7C2 only has EFSC anyway and its shutter sound and impulse I consider significantly softer.
Cheers,
Ralf

Click to expand...

Electronic First Curtain Shutter = EFCS

Click to expand...

I'm using Silent Shutter mode. 2 stops is very underwhelming. This is easily beaten by 20 year old zooms.

Click to expand...

https://m.dpreview.com/articles/5876118090/image-stablization-showdown-nikon-z7-vs-sony-a7r-iii

Click to expand...

But that Sony lens at 200mm has OSS on the lens or did they turn it off on the lens and just use the IBIS on the camera? Not sure if that is possible.

Click to expand...

You are correct. I don't have a clean test with only IBIS at all focal lengths. The lower focal length results however were IBIS only. They still exceeded my expectations.

Click to expand...

On my Sony 20-70 which does not have IS, l was getting 2 stops, ie 1/15 at 70mm, consistanlly, 1/8 was not so sharp. I was using Silent shutter. I was focussing on a car 30mm away and checking the number plate.

Click to expand...

I may have a more stable grip than you do, but not by a lot. This is one of the reasons that CIPA ratings were adopted to eliminate differences in how the systems were rated. However, the rating system isn’t aligned to real world use and certainly not to individual use. My own results are around 3 stops, but if have to check various lenses to see if all have that result. The balance of the body plus lens affects how stable the entire thing is.

UncleVanya said:

Seems Sony claim a lot of things.

Reading a review of the 70-200/4 lens, compared to the Canon 70-200/4, the 200mm on the Sony is matched at 163mm on the Canon.

Click to expand...

You need to read about focus breathing. The Nikon also is similar to the Sony. It’s a design choice and one that is well understood.

Click to expand...

RaysJ said:

UncleVanya said:

RaysJ said:

RaysJ wrote:
Seems Sony claim a lot of things. Reading a review of the 70-200/4 lens, compared to the Canon 70-200/4, the 200mm on the Sony is matched at 163mm on the Canon.

Click to expand...

You need to read about focus breathing. The Nikon also is similar to the Sony. It’s a design choice and one that is well understood.

Click to expand...

I don't see what focus breathing has to do with it.

Click to expand...

RaysJ said:

Google replies: What is focus breathing?

• Change in focal length: As the lens elements move to adjust focus from near to far, the lens's effective focal length changes.

Click to expand...

Ralf B said:

RaysJ said:

UncleVanya said:

Ralf B said:

RaysJ wrote:
Seems Sony claim a lot of things. Reading a review of the 70-200/4 lens, compared to the Canon 70-200/4, the 200mm on the Sony is matched at 163mm on the Canon.

Click to expand...

You need to read about focus breathing. The Nikon also is similar to the Sony. It’s a design choice and one that is well understood.

Click to expand...

I don't see what focus breathing has to do with it.

Click to expand...

Allow me to help you out here:
https://www.google.com/search?q=foc...BwIxMLgHjwfCBwQyLTExyAcx&sclient=gws-wiz-serpQuote from above link:

Ralf B said:

Google replies: What is focus breathing?

• Change in focal length: As the lens elements move to adjust focus from near to far, the lens's effective focal length changes.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

RaysJ said:

l'm talking about framing an image on the Sony 70-200 @ 200mm but if you frame exactly the same image, it is only @ 163mm FL on the Canon 70-200.

Click to expand...

• actually share pics
• acknowledge and process inputs provided to you by the forum, like my last attempt, see the post your replied to - and below:
• focus breathing according to a Google answer is nothing but a "Change in focal length" - the Sony 70-200 @ 200mm framed close to MFD is only @ 163mm.