Bit of a Rant... MY ideal camera.

Ok, so last night I went out to capture the Harvest moon, I have a Sony A7CR and A6700, Fuji GFX100RF and a Nikon Z8. I love all of these cameras for various reasons, and even though it is a mishmash of camera gear, they all have some aspects related to my ideal camera. My ideal camera is as follows:

1. Hybrid - I take lots of pictures and videos and I use the most advanced codecs and file formats. I have lots of disk space and compute power and I am not afraid to use it. (A7CR/A6700/Z8)
2. RF Style - Makes for a more square camera and since I am a right eye shooter keeps my nose out of the way. Also they are generally less conspicuous in social settings. (A7CR/A6700/GFX100RF)
3. Size - I prefer smaller cameras, but large enough to handle well. (A7CR/A6700 with grips and GFX100RF)
4. Simple Workflows - This is actually complicated because I have two workflows:
   1. On the go - I want to take pictures and video and immediately share them via my phone to google photos/youtube. (Sony is unbeatable for this)
   2. Highest quality\flexibity - Using the least amount of time. That means capturing good files the z8 and GFX100RF are great at this as I almost never need to do more than adjust exposure/crop/wb if I got them wrong in camera. 100MP and 8k mean I can do create several compositions with one capture.
5. Speed - z8 wins here. That stacked sensor must be used to be appreciated. I don't need 20 (or 120fps) but it is there if I do.
6. Flash - I love flash, it makes taking pictures so much easier, and people rarely if ever complain about it. So I use it with all my setups. All of the cameras handle flash well.

With all of that out of the way, what would be the ideal camera? Give me the ZR body (and sound configuration with 32bit float and that 4" screen) with an RF styled EVF, and put the z8 sensor and functions inside that body. I would call it:


Nikon Z8RF


Probably looking at a $4500 camera, BUT I think it would be the hottest thing in the market place. So much so I would get two, so that when I am shooting events, I can go from 1430/4 on one camera up to an 85mm on the other. Same with things like sports, 28400 on one camera and 24120/4 to catch photos as the action gets closer. The A7CR comes the closest, but the sensor is just a bit too slow for video and I can't stand rolling shutter.

I know my use case is VERY specific but a camera like that could be made to work for all sorts of shooters from wildlife, sports, portraits to events, family gatherings, etc...
If we can let's just have some fun with this one, I know this is probably not happening, however, post your ideal set up or adjustments to this one.

Adding an EVF and it's no longer ZR style body. Also how do you justify that large screen? The whole point of that screen is to not use the EVF.

You can add an EVF to any camera if you want to spend the money. The Portkeys for example. Or spend more and look at the Kinefinity

NickZ2016 said:

Adding an EVF and it's no longer ZR style body.

Click to expand...

Of course it isn't, it is now a Z8RF body... The ZR reference is just to help bring people visualize the concept.

NickZ2016 said:

Also how do you justify that large screen? The whole point of that screen is to not use the EVF.

Click to expand...

Because bigger is better. If it can't be that size, I would be ok, but that is the standard. And the EVF is handy for photography, so you would have the best viewing options regardless of the format you wanted to shoot.

NickZ2016 said:

You can add an EVF to any camera if you want to spend the money. The Portkeys for example. Or spend more and look at the Kinefinity

Click to expand...

I get that, if nothing changes that might be the solution for a two camera ZR kit. Really the only thing the ZR doesn't have is flash sync speed above 1/30. If it went to 1/160, I would probably deal with the other short comings.

jhunna said:

but a camera like that could be made to work for all sorts of shooters from wildlife, sports, portraits to events, family gatherings, etc...

Click to expand...

I dunno...both my z9 and my z6iii work for all of those things already.

pjm1966 said:

jhunna said:

but a camera like that could be made to work for all sorts of shooters from wildlife, sports, portraits to events, family gatherings, etc...

Click to expand...

I dunno...both my z9 and my z6iii work for all of those things already.

Click to expand...

But that's just it.. .it is TWO different cameras.

I would add that it is easier to add bulk to a "rectangular camera" vs one with a traditional view finder, so you could improve the handling if needed.

I can't argue with what would be your ideal camera. Nor do I want to.

But I would never buy what you are calling a Z8RF. I don't need it or want it.

jhunna said:

pjm1966 said:

jhunna said:

but a camera like that could be made to work for all sorts of shooters from wildlife, sports, portraits to events, family gatherings, etc...

Click to expand...

I dunno...both my z9 and my z6iii work for all of those things already.

Click to expand...

But that's just it.. .it is TWO different cameras.

I would add that it is easier to add bulk to a "rectangular camera" vs one with a traditional view finder, so you could improve the handling if needed.

Click to expand...

Let me clarify: EACH of those two cameras work for all of the things you mention.

pjm1966 said:

jhunna said:

pjm1966 said:

jhunna said:

but a camera like that could be made to work for all sorts of shooters from wildlife, sports, portraits to events, family gatherings, etc...

Click to expand...

I dunno...both my z9 and my z6iii work for all of those things already.

Click to expand...

But that's just it.. .it is TWO different cameras.

I would add that it is easier to add bulk to a "rectangular camera" vs one with a traditional view finder, so you could improve the handling if needed.

Click to expand...

Let me clarify: EACH of those two cameras work for all of the things you mention.

Click to expand...

But they don't. Neither is unobtrusive enough to not attract attention because of the hump. Neither has 32bit float audio. To be fair the z8 is exactly with I want except for the form factor and audio requirements.

jhunna said:

Neither is unobtrusive enough to not attract attention because of the hump.

Click to expand...

Oh yes, this is the Clark Kent school of design, just take away the EVF/hotshoe hump and people suddenly wouldn't be able to see the camera

With glasses and a funny nose nobody notices the camera

michaeladawson said:

I can't argue with what would be your ideal camera. Nor do I want to.

But I would never buy what you are calling a Z8RF. I don't need it or want it.

Click to expand...

I have to agree with you here. Every time someone starts a thread about some hypothetical new camera, they seem to think that because they'd like it that Nikon would sell a million of them.

The OP is certainly entitled to his desires and it can be fun to speculate. But without insight into Nikon engineering (to know if it could possibly be built, how much it would have to cost, etc.) or Nikon marketing (to know how popular it might be) that's all it is -- fun speculation. Nothing wrong with that, of course.

A Z8 that was the size of the Z7 would do me, though I’d love a 60mp sensor too

jlafferty said:

jhunna said:

Neither is unobtrusive enough to not attract attention because of the hump.

Click to expand...

Oh yes, this is the Clark Kent school of design, just take away the EVF/hotshoe hump and people suddenly wouldn't be able to see the camera

Click to expand...

Hehehe, that's actually a pretty good analogy.

I could go for a Z8 Clark Kent edition...

Born2Code said:

michaeladawson said:

I can't argue with what would be your ideal camera. Nor do I want to.

But I would never buy what you are calling a Z8RF. I don't need it or want it.

Click to expand...

I have to agree with you here. Every time someone starts a thread about some hypothetical new camera, they seem to think that because they'd like it that Nikon would sell a million of them.

The OP is certainly entitled to his desires and it can be fun to speculate. But without insight into Nikon engineering (to know if it could possibly be built, how much it would have to cost, etc.) or Nikon marketing (to know how popular it might be) that's all it is -- fun speculation. Nothing wrong with that, of course.

Click to expand...

It is just fun and games until one day they make what you really want like the A7CR. To be honest if I had never picked up the Z8 I believe I was done until they added global shutter to the A7CR series ..

jlafferty said:

jhunna said:

Neither is unobtrusive enough to not attract attention because of the hump.

Click to expand...

Oh yes, this is the Clark Kent school of design, just take away the EVF/hotshoe hump and people suddenly wouldn't be able to see the camera

Click to expand...

lol

Yeah...nobody will notice that 6" barrel extending out of the fron of this mysterious balck square I'm holding, but that 1.5" hump on top of the box gives everything away, dammit.

I think the thing about the “unobtrusive camera” is that it’s a creation of a photographer’s anxieties, a projection. Everybody notices your rangefinder, you just feel better thinking they don’t. But real street photographers moved like they didn’t care and made great work in spite of their cameras, partly because of their confidence and their brazen approach that didn’t shy away from being seen. Winnogrand would always fiddle and pretend like he couldn’t operate his camera, or he missed what he was trying to get a photo of because he didn’t realize people were walking in the way. But he was taking their photo.

pjm1966 said:

jlafferty said:

jhunna said:

Neither is unobtrusive enough to not attract attention because of the hump.

Click to expand...

Oh yes, this is the Clark Kent school of design, just take away the EVF/hotshoe hump and people suddenly wouldn't be able to see the camera

Click to expand...

lol

Yeah...nobody will notice that 6" barrel extending out of the fron of this mysterious balck square I'm holding, but that 1.5" hump on top of the box gives everything away, dammit.

Click to expand...

That would be like Clark Kent wearing a Big Bird suit to dinner, people are going to notice. But wear a conservative black suit and glasses (ie Nikon 26/2.8, 28/2.8 or 40/2) and no one is going to pay much attention.

jlafferty said:

I think the thing about the “unobtrusive camera” is that it’s a creation of a photographer’s anxieties, a projection. Everybody notices your rangefinder, you just feel better thinking they don’t. But real street photographers moved like they didn’t care and made great work in spite of their cameras, partly because of their confidence and their brazen approach that didn’t shy away from being seen. Winnogrand would always fiddle and pretend like he couldn’t operate his camera, or he missed what he was trying to get a photo of because he didn’t realize people were walking in the way. But he was taking their photo.

Click to expand...

I think you are projecting...

Yeah... that's not me. I WILL go out to the street with a z8 and 28400, or an RF style and a flash. I am 6'4" so I stand out in a crowd, I can't hide behind a camera. If I want a shot I get it and deal with the consequences.

I want something that doesn't intrude on my life (ie able to set the camera down on the table during dinner at a restaurant) and/or that will keep the conversations short (humps on cameras start conversations around "who are you taking pictures for?", "How will the picture be used", where as with an RF camera the conversation only comes when people either really object or want a copy or want to discuss the camera.

Not sure what to tell you. There are a half dozen cameras that can sit on a table it’s just that Nikon isn’t making them. Go get one of those cameras. Embrace reality and move on.

Every camera is a compromise and every camera has its shortcomings. You’re welcome to hold your opinions and complain and start threads like this, but it’s just web forum fodder. Other people just get to work with what works

jhunna said:

jlafferty said:

I think the thing about the “unobtrusive camera” is that it’s a creation of a photographer’s anxieties, a projection. Everybody notices your rangefinder, you just feel better thinking they don’t. But real street photographers moved like they didn’t care and made great work in spite of their cameras, partly because of their confidence and their brazen approach that didn’t shy away from being seen. Winnogrand would always fiddle and pretend like he couldn’t operate his camera, or he missed what he was trying to get a photo of because he didn’t realize people were walking in the way. But he was taking their photo.

Click to expand...

I think you are projecting...

Yeah... that's not me. I WILL go out to the street with a z8 and 28400, or an RF style and a flash. I am 6'4" so I stand out in a crowd, I can't hide behind a camera. If I want a shot I get it and deal with the consequences.

I want something that doesn't intrude on my life (ie able to set the camera down on the table during dinner at a restaurant) and/or that will keep the conversations short (humps on cameras start conversations around "who are you taking pictures for?", "How will the picture be used", where as with an RF camera the conversation only comes when people either really object or want a copy or want to discuss the camera.

Click to expand...

jhunna said:

Born2Code said:

michaeladawson said:

I can't argue with what would be your ideal camera. Nor do I want to.

But I would never buy what you are calling a Z8RF. I don't need it or want it.

Click to expand...

I have to agree with you here. Every time someone starts a thread about some hypothetical new camera, they seem to think that because they'd like it that Nikon would sell a million of them.

The OP is certainly entitled to his desires and it can be fun to speculate. But without insight into Nikon engineering (to know if it could possibly be built, how much it would have to cost, etc.) or Nikon marketing (to know how popular it might be) that's all it is -- fun speculation. Nothing wrong with that, of course.

Click to expand...

It is just fun and games until one day they make what you really want like the A7CR. To be honest if I had never picked up the Z8 I believe I was done until they added global shutter to the A7CR series ..

Click to expand...

The A7CR has a global shutter?