Any guidelines for building a prime kit?

I got this idea way back and am just trying to see if there is a real meaning to it.

25+ years ago when I was buying my first film SLR, the internet was new and there were several small photography sites and blogs that have disappeared since. I read this somewhere and don't know if it still exists.

That article said something like, find the focal length that you use most and keep doubling the focal length for tele lenses or halving for wider lenses, as many steps as you need. Anything in between is inefficient in terms of number of lenses and frequent switching.

As an example, the author used 50mm as most used focal length. For tele lenses you would benefit from having a 100mm and 200mm. For wider lenses you would benefit from 25mm (or24) and 12mm (or 14).

The idea was that under normal conditions (= not near a cliff, not sitting in the audience with people around, not chasing fast moving subjects, etc.) there is room to move forward or backward to compensate for some focal length. Beyond that you need double or half the focal length for a meaningful difference. That was the guideline for an efficient prime kit (can't remember what the author called it).

I didn't think much of it and never used primes with film or DSLR cameras (but I always had a 50mm because theory said every photographer must have one!) People often ask me what lens I use but in all these years I was only asked twice if I use a 50mm!!

Without consciously thinking of it, I just happened to buy a 40mm, 20mm and 75mm primes for my FF ML body. The main reason for this was their price. I preferred 35mm but 40 was cheaper, etc. If I had to buy more expensive lenses I definitely would have bought one or two, not all three. If I went with my preferred 35mm, then I should have bought an 18mm, 70mm (75 is close) and 140mm (135 is close) per this guideline.

When packing the lenses yesterday for an event, I picked 40mm on FF body and 42.5mm for MFT body (which can be accepted for roughly 85mm view). This old idea came back to mind for no reason. Edit: Today I am using 75mm lenses on both Z7ii and G9ii for a similar event. So, this idea probably affected me more than I realize :)

As I think about it, the most popular focal lengths of 85mm and 135mm don't fit into this scheme! So, some might call this theory/guideline a hoax.

We all need some focal lengths but not everything in between. Are there such guidelines for what can be called an efficient prime kit? I recently covered an indoor event with 15/1.7 on one MFT body and 42.5/1.7 on the other. I believe it is possible.

I know there can be special lenses like macro or tilt/shift whose focal lengths may vary, but I am referring to general photography.

I intend to leave wildlife and zooms out of this because then we can scrap this entire post.

Thanks.
There must be a reason no one mentions something that, to me, would be basic to whichever lens choices you make. Stepping back, -does the lens considered have VR available? It can mean the difference in more usable photos taken. Especially in dimly lit environments, The other consideration is to include in your kit a good micro lens. The better glass is to be found for 1.4 apertures as well,
 
I got this idea way back and am just trying to see if there is a real meaning to it.

25+ years ago when I was buying my first film SLR, the internet was new and there were several small photography sites and blogs that have disappeared since. I read this somewhere and don't know if it still exists.

That article said something like, find the focal length that you use most and keep doubling the focal length for tele lenses or halving for wider lenses, as many steps as you need. Anything in between is inefficient in terms of number of lenses and frequent switching.

As an example, the author used 50mm as most used focal length. For tele lenses you would benefit from having a 100mm and 200mm. For wider lenses you would benefit from 25mm (or24) and 12mm (or 14).

The idea was that under normal conditions (= not near a cliff, not sitting in the audience with people around, not chasing fast moving subjects, etc.) there is room to move forward or backward to compensate for some focal length. Beyond that you need double or half the focal length for a meaningful difference. That was the guideline for an efficient prime kit (can't remember what the author called it).

I didn't think much of it and never used primes with film or DSLR cameras (but I always had a 50mm because theory said every photographer must have one!) People often ask me what lens I use but in all these years I was only asked twice if I use a 50mm!!

Without consciously thinking of it, I just happened to buy a 40mm, 20mm and 75mm primes for my FF ML body. The main reason for this was their price. I preferred 35mm but 40 was cheaper, etc. If I had to buy more expensive lenses I definitely would have bought one or two, not all three. If I went with my preferred 35mm, then I should have bought an 18mm, 70mm (75 is close) and 140mm (135 is close) per this guideline.

When packing the lenses yesterday for an event, I picked 40mm on FF body and 42.5mm for MFT body (which can be accepted for roughly 85mm view). This old idea came back to mind for no reason. Edit: Today I am using 75mm lenses on both Z7ii and G9ii for a similar event. So, this idea probably affected me more than I realize :)

As I think about it, the most popular focal lengths of 85mm and 135mm don't fit into this scheme! So, some might call this theory/guideline a hoax.

We all need some focal lengths but not everything in between. Are there such guidelines for what can be called an efficient prime kit? I recently covered an indoor event with 15/1.7 on one MFT body and 42.5/1.7 on the other. I believe it is possible.

I know there can be special lenses like macro or tilt/shift whose focal lengths may vary, but I am referring to general photography.

I intend to leave wildlife and zooms out of this because then we can scrap this entire post.

Thanks.
There must be a reason no one mentions something that, to me, would be basic to whichever lens choices you make. Stepping back, -does the lens considered have VR available? It can mean the difference in more usable photos taken. Especially in dimly lit environments, The other consideration is to include in your kit a good micro lens. The better glass is to be found for 1.4 apertures as well,
OP has Z7ii and G9ii which both have good IBIS, so Dual IS at equivalent FLs over 200mm might be a consideration but IBIS should be enough at the kind of FLs discussed.

A
 
If your shooting landscapes for example then "just stepping back forward" often will not be an option unless your just interested in changing foreground.

Personally as well I would argue it depends a bit on were and how much your shooting, if your say mostly shooting on holiday for only a day or less in a location and your not set on taking certain images then honestly it maybe the case you only need 1-2 focal lengths to keep you busy.

Another thing to consider I would say is perhaps to go for somewhat different kinds of primes if your getting them closer together, if your getting say a 28mm and a 35mm then perhaps get one of them to be a good rendering/bokeh lens and the other a maximum resolution lens? or perhaps differing them to size/speed so you have a larger faster lens follows by a smaller slower one.
 
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More by accident than design, I have ended up with (on M43) 9, 20 & 45. Not far off your 0.5x & 2x. Works for me!
 
As an engineer, data analyst and overall geek I personally hate using math to choose primes. I know that prime kits built around multiples and Fibonacci sequences make for pretty looking numbers but none of that has any bearing on what or how we like to shoot.

I also have the unfortunate disorder of having a lot of expensive equipment based hobbies. What I generally find is, the more you have to stretch and outsource reasons to buy something, the less you really need it. Again using random number patterns to justify buying more glass = you prob dont need more glass.

For me it's about finding holes in my kit for stuff I shoot. Only primes I have are a 35 and 45, largely because nobody makes a 40 that ticks all my boxes (I tried and didn't like the Batis 40). I have tried everything between 14 and 135. I found that I simply hate changing lenses in the field and prefer to rely on zooms. I mainly use primes in low light where zooms cannot hang. In particular, I think I tried 3-4 85s, and while I got some good shots out of them I couldn't gel with them for casual use. The math says an 85 and prob a 17-20 would be great, but for UWAs I simply prefer zooms.

So yea unfortunately I think the only real way to figure out what lenses work best for you is to try out a bunch of lenses. I do think a ~35-50mm prime is a safe first choice though, if for no other reason than it's a brain dead easy versatile choice for low light. Everything beyond that gets very subjective/specialized.
 
Another thing to consider I would say is perhaps to go for somewhat different kinds of primes if your getting them closer together, if your getting say a 28mm and a 35mm then perhaps get one of them to be a good rendering/bokeh lens and the other a maximum resolution lens? or perhaps differing them to size/speed so you have a larger faster lens follows by a smaller slower one.
To expand on this, you can even get primes of the same focal length, but one may be a macro lens, the other a tilt-shift, one small and light for travel, another big fast one for speed and rendering etc. FL is just one of many parameters of lenses.
 
FWIW, back around the '70s, the bad old film days, everybody had a 50. It would have covered a lot of situations and was almost certainly your fastest lens, f/1.4, f/1.8 or f/2. Very few people had or could afford an f/1.2. Film speed limitations forced the use of the 50 in many situations where it wasn't the best fl.

Next, for most people, was a longer lens. If you had a 3-lens kit, it was likely a 135 or maybe the inexpensive Nikkor 200 f/4. Unless you were into sports or wildlife, that was about the limit, longer lenses being terribly difficult to get sharp photos with. Hope springs eternal so maybe you bought a teleconverter that then sat in a drawer for the rest of its life. Or, maybe you bought a slow zoom, 85-205, or something like that. Sounded good but no speed, no AF, low optical quality and no ISO gave a low hit rate.

Wide angles weren't as sexy as teles, but if you were a PJ the 35 mm was almost essential. Otherwise, the 3-lens kit probably had a 28 mm. No so many people went wider due to cost and less applicability.

The above is based on people I knew and publications at the time. Obviously, kit varied widely, depending on needs, whims and finances. So many of those limitations are gone today and we're living in a time of incredible photographic riches!
 
Another thing to consider I would say is perhaps to go for somewhat different kinds of primes if your getting them closer together, if your getting say a 28mm and a 35mm then perhaps get one of them to be a good rendering/bokeh lens and the other a maximum resolution lens? or perhaps differing them to size/speed so you have a larger faster lens follows by a smaller slower one.
To expand on this, you can even get primes of the same focal length, but one may be a macro lens, the other a tilt-shift, one small and light for travel, another big fast one for speed and rendering etc. FL is just one of many parameters of lenses.
Personally most of my shooting is on primes these days and I'v got two different "lines" for different uses.

The bigger heavier "serious" stuff I do most of my D850 shooting on....

Laowa 15mm F/4.5 Shift

Zeiss 18mm F/2.8 Milvus

Zeiss 25mm F/1.4 Milvus

Zeiss 35mm F/1.4 Milvus

Tokina 50mm F/1.4 Opera

..and a couple of smaller lighter pancake options for either casual shooting on a Df or low weight shooting on long walks on holiday...

Voigtlander 20mm F/3.5

Voigtlander 40mm F/2

plus a couple of of inbetweeners...

Zeiss 50mm F/2 Makro

Nikon 105mm F/2 DC

Can obviously get more expensive than zooms but prices for DSLR lenses being so much lower used these days is what allowed me to build that up.

The Voigtlanders I spose follow the "rule" reasonably closely, if I was to do another serious long distance trek again I'd probably pickup the 85mm F/2.8 pancake to go with them or maybe the old 90mm if I wanted a Macro.
 
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I don't think the mathematical approach would work for me.

My prime kit would be 24/shift, 35/2, 58/1.4, 85/2, 135/2.8, 300/4. I could do without the 58 if I had to.

As you can see, I don't need or want the fastest of everything, so maybe I'm allowed to have six lenses.

One thing worth noting is that to effectively get by with just prime lenses, I feel like I'd need second body, whereas with zooms, I'd be OK with just one body.
 
Best advice would be to use a zoom lens for a year then map out which focal lengths were most used, then wait another year to think about it then buy the set of primes that you think you need.
This is the way.

Don't listen to what other people use, find out what you use.

And find the lower end of usage, it's easy to crop - and impossible to do the reverse...

Examples:

https://petapixel.com/2016/12/30/quick-tip-use-lightroom-figure-next-prime-lens/

https://sensored-view.com/2018/09/02/using-lightroom-to-determine-your-favourite-focal-length/
 
Sounds like your 20, 40 and 75 are ideal for you. I suggest just going with those, until you happen to get interested in subjects such as wildlife or extreme telephoto sports that require something longer. Then be prepared for high prices! 😊
 
John Shaw used to write that in his books 30+ years ago. He compared it with typical steps in aperture, where 1 stop gives you double (or half) of light gathering.

It is a guideline that makes sense in my mind, even after decades I am using it. You can go from 50mm to 100mm in a full stop, or from 50mm to 85mm in 1/@ stop, so to speak.

For those who prefer or require zooms, it makes sense to use a standard zoom, and also have a fast prime for low light shooting, with a focal length near the middle of the zoom.

I have two primes (14mm and 27mm) and one telezoom (70-300) for APSC. The zoom brings me flexibility where I need it.

--
www.paulobizarro.com
http://blog.paulobizarro.com/
 
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It’s a commonly asked question.

But, in my opinion, it’s sort of like asking what type of nails should one buy at a lumber yard. Obviously it would depend on what you plan to nail together.

Lenses are the same way. I only have a 35mm and a 50mm. I can use either one for interesting compositions. Zooming with your feet is one option, but the other is zooming by cropping with software. 40MP has plenty of resolution for a 4x cropping.

If there a spectacular vista which requires a wide angle lens, then I would just stitch 3 shots together taken with my 50mm.
 
[…]
40MP has plenty of resolution for a 4x cropping.
If you crop 4 times linear, you end up with 2.5 Mp.

If you OTOH mean that 10 Mp is plenty, you can crop 2 times linear, say from 50 to 100mm field of view.
If there a spectacular vista which requires a wide angle lens, then I would just stitch 3 shots together taken with my 50mm.
... which works fine if light and subject doesn't change between shots, and your lens is equally sharp across the frame.
 
[…]
40MP has plenty of resolution for a 4x cropping.
If you crop 4 times linear, you end up with 2.5 Mp.
True, but I meant four times the focal length, so a 50mm cropped to an equivalent view of a 200mm
If you OTOH mean that 10 Mp is plenty, you can crop 2 times linear, say from 50 to 100mm field of view.
If there a spectacular vista which requires a wide angle lens, then I would just stitch 3 shots together taken with my 50mm.
... which works fine if light and subject doesn't change between shots, and your lens is equally sharp across the frame.
True, those are important considerations. I am thinking of the random shot where a wide angle would be better. In that scenario, I would not want to carry around a 21mm just in case I might need it.
 
That article said something like, find the focal length that you use most and keep doubling the focal length for tele lenses or halving for wider lenses, as many steps as you need. Anything in between is inefficient in terms of number of lenses and frequent switching.

I had never heard of this advice before, but at 1st glance it makes sense....and then I looked at my prime kit. I'm immune to GAS - I have a real-world budget and don't like to carry more than necessary for what I am shooting.

While the math doesn't math exactly it is pretty close. My kit consists of a 20mm, 40mm and 85mm with the 40 being the most commonly used.

...the more you know...
 
As I think about it, the most popular focal lengths of 85mm and 135mm don't fit into this scheme! So, some might call this theory/guideline a hoax.
Hmm, this is interesting. Might explain why I prefer 35mm combined with 85mm (equivalent). 85mm is a bit more than double, but it's a bigger jump than going from 50mm to 85mm. 🤔 I look at it a bit differently - I like these focal lengths because they provide distinctly different compositions from each other and offer something very different than what 50mm would get you. I feel like 50mm is pretty "boring" for a lot of things, so going a bit wider and a bit longer appeals to me.
 
As I think about it, the most popular focal lengths of 85mm and 135mm don't fit into this scheme! So, some might call this theory/guideline a hoax.
Hmm, this is interesting. Might explain why I prefer 35mm combined with 85mm (equivalent). 85mm is a bit more than double, but it's a bigger jump than going from 50mm to 85mm. 🤔 I look at it a bit differently - I like these focal lengths because they provide distinctly different compositions from each other and offer something very different than what 50mm would get you. I feel like 50mm is pretty "boring" for a lot of things, so going a bit wider and a bit longer appeals to me.
I think the reasons would be historical too. I know that 50mm has been the 'normal' or 'standard' lens for a long time. I have thought of it as the simples to design/produce in the smallest possible size. Any longer or wider lenses are usually bigger.

I don't know the history of 85mm. Instead, if they produced 100mm alongside the 50, not sure how that would be seen today.
 
That article said something like, find the focal length that you use most and keep doubling the focal length for tele lenses or halving for wider lenses, as many steps as you need. Anything in between is inefficient in terms of number of lenses and frequent switching.

As an example, the author used 50mm as most used focal length. For tele lenses you would benefit from having a 100mm and 200mm. For wider lenses you would benefit from 25mm (or24) and 12mm (or 14).
That thought from many years ago came to mind as I was packing my primes for an event this week. I did not formally study photography. I also do not have extensive experience in film era. I know that many here have both. I just wanted to see if there is a real merit or history behind it, that we should recommend that to buyers today.

From all the responses...

There were at least two mentions of such theory historically.

There is anecdotal evidence from some members that their focal lengths seem to coincide with this theory (just like mine did).

There were also a couple of technical comments. Though I don't understand all the implications of these, I get that there is a serious logic behind.
  • "I'd look at shorter steps of approximately square root two, to minimize the loss of pixels when cropping."
  • "Now with higher res digital that can stand more cropping then maybe 2x separation factor makes more sense."
There were also a couple of serios comments. I am not sure if there was sarcasm, simple dismissal of this idea, or just light-hearted. Either way, I get that this is not a serious rule (and I didn't say it was).

When I read that blog 25+ years ago, it is possible that the author had used different primes from film days and narrowed down his choices to those focal lengths. He might have then used that as advice to beginners who don't know where to start. Once we use cameras for some time and know what we need, the guidelines are only for debate.

It also sounds like a very basic setup for limited indoor or street use (think of 40mm, 20mm and 75mm that I have). This kit can't be used for lot of things I do. Then I use the 28-75/2.8 zoom across the same focal lenghts! We definitely have many types of photography today than they did a hundred years ago.

Another factor in today's lenses is the improved technology. I vividly remember strong recommendations for my film camera that a zoom should not be more than 3x. They were considered trash. I often quote Olympus 12-100/f4 as today's standard. A 'Pro' grade 8x+ zoom that performs at a high level. For casual users, that eliminates lot of primes. Or at least minimizes to one or two.

Some of these guidelines/theories are like folk tales. They start somewhere in some context. There is merit in a limited context but seems silly outside.

It was interesting to me reading all your comments. The technical ones give me some ideas to explore in free time. Thanks all.
 
As I think about it, the most popular focal lengths of 85mm and 135mm don't fit into this scheme! So, some might call this theory/guideline a hoax.
Hmm, this is interesting. Might explain why I prefer 35mm combined with 85mm (equivalent). 85mm is a bit more than double, but it's a bigger jump than going from 50mm to 85mm. 🤔 I look at it a bit differently - I like these focal lengths because they provide distinctly different compositions from each other and offer something very different than what 50mm would get you. I feel like 50mm is pretty "boring" for a lot of things, so going a bit wider and a bit longer appeals to me.
I think the reasons would be historical too. I know that 50mm has been the 'normal' or 'standard' lens for a long time. I have thought of it as the simples to design/produce in the smallest possible size. Any longer or wider lenses are usually bigger.

I don't know the history of 85mm. Instead, if they produced 100mm alongside the 50, not sure how that would be seen today.
I think as with most guidelines, it breaks down in actual practice. The reality is that if you're doing portraiture 85mm is a nice balance between getting a bit of "compression" for flatter features and cleaner backgrounds, but 100mm can cause problems with working distance in some situations. If you can use it, great - but I reckon a lot of photographers find it more difficult than using 85mm. 135mm even more so.

Another thing that's interesting to think about is how this has been influence by people moving from using viewfinders to using the camera's "monitor". The difference can be a couple feet of distance. When I switched from dSLR to a mirrorless camera that only had monitor, I found that 40mm felt better most of the time vs 50mm - which I think is partially due to the fact I was using that camera "at arm's length" most of the time. 🤷🏽‍♂️
 

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