If almost all customers paid back within the interest free period,these interest free schemes would not exist. So the banks do bet on a good percentage of customers NOT paying back in time.
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Of Interest to US Buyers - The B&H Payboo Gimmick
- Thread starter Greg7579
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robertGregory
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But that's just it. Even if Amazon claims to be the seller, under the label of "Prime" etc., there IS NO guarantee you will get new product. This has especially happened to me, more than once, with music CD's and movies, where the product was re-shrunk-wrapped, and in some cases unplayable. I have also had experiences with other products, when it landed to me, not new, or messed with.
A great example: I was doing a computer build. I ordered a 4TB solid state drive. The western digital product came to me in what appeared to be a new box. Looked new, smelled new, everything. Did not appear tampered with, but it wasn't a 4TB drive. It was a 256GB SSD of completely different spec other than what was advertised.
Amazon, in any of the cases, did allow the return with no hassle.
But it boils down to trust. They (Amazon) are on thin ice with me.
With B&H I have never had a problem with respect to questionable product, always new. I did have a DOA lens once, Nikkor AFS 85mm f/1.8. They took care of it.
Sidebar comment.
Within the last year, the movie "The Abyss" came out on blu-ray / 4K UHD, a long, long awaited treasure for those of us who like the movie yet were told for years on end "next year they will release the movie..." and it never came.
Finally, this year. it came.
When news broke late last year, of it's "true" release, which also came with a special edition one-night showing in theaters (to which I attended), I pre-ordered the movie on Amazon as well.
The release date passed and received the movie. It turned out the 4k UHD version was unplayable. Thinking it might be a shipping issue, because the 4k UHD was not secured to the hub inside the plastic movie box. it was loose. It also looked like there might have been scratches on it, which "could" make it unplayable (happens sometimes no matter who you get the movies from), I started a return with Amazon.
During the return process, going through the screens (like a normal return) it felt a bit different in this case. By the time I got through the return process, the last screen, it stated "We can't take it back" so the ONLY option was refund my credit card, with a message no need to return the product. WHAT?? SURE! I took it.
Within a day or so, with no responsibility to ship back the movie, my card was refunded.
So, whilst I had an unplayable 4k UHD version, I ended up with a regular blu-ray HD version that was absolutely free. WOW!
We're NOT done with the story.
But I wanted the 4k UHD version, and went to buy the movie again, going to Amazon, of course. Yet this time, they were all sold out, with a message "Unavailable", not out of stock with an ETA date - like normal.
This was very strange. I hopped over to Best Buy, they did not have any in stock. But Target did. So I purchase a copy from them.
I got the movie. Same thing. 4K UHD did not play. AGAIN!
I started the return back to Target. And... They could only refund the money, they too, did not require a return. Now I had two playable blu-ray versions, for absolutely free.
Could it be the manufacturer pooched the released? Seems so, but I want my 4k UHD version. Eh, let me try walmart online. of course they had it.
I received the walmart copy. That was dorked up too. Same thing, no need to return it, refund in a day or two.
So, I sat with 3 dorked up 4k UHDs and 3 playable blu-ray copies. All for free.
At this point, no one had it for sale, all unavailable... Yep had to be a manufacturer defect.
I sent my friend a copy for free, he was just plain old happy with the blu-ray, just like I was.
To make a long story short, the manufacturer re-released it. I picked up a new copy and it all worked. just fine.
and so it goes.
A great example: I was doing a computer build. I ordered a 4TB solid state drive. The western digital product came to me in what appeared to be a new box. Looked new, smelled new, everything. Did not appear tampered with, but it wasn't a 4TB drive. It was a 256GB SSD of completely different spec other than what was advertised.
Amazon, in any of the cases, did allow the return with no hassle.
But it boils down to trust. They (Amazon) are on thin ice with me.
With B&H I have never had a problem with respect to questionable product, always new. I did have a DOA lens once, Nikkor AFS 85mm f/1.8. They took care of it.
Sidebar comment.
Within the last year, the movie "The Abyss" came out on blu-ray / 4K UHD, a long, long awaited treasure for those of us who like the movie yet were told for years on end "next year they will release the movie..." and it never came.
Finally, this year. it came.
When news broke late last year, of it's "true" release, which also came with a special edition one-night showing in theaters (to which I attended), I pre-ordered the movie on Amazon as well.
The release date passed and received the movie. It turned out the 4k UHD version was unplayable. Thinking it might be a shipping issue, because the 4k UHD was not secured to the hub inside the plastic movie box. it was loose. It also looked like there might have been scratches on it, which "could" make it unplayable (happens sometimes no matter who you get the movies from), I started a return with Amazon.
During the return process, going through the screens (like a normal return) it felt a bit different in this case. By the time I got through the return process, the last screen, it stated "We can't take it back" so the ONLY option was refund my credit card, with a message no need to return the product. WHAT?? SURE! I took it.
Within a day or so, with no responsibility to ship back the movie, my card was refunded.
So, whilst I had an unplayable 4k UHD version, I ended up with a regular blu-ray HD version that was absolutely free. WOW!
We're NOT done with the story.
But I wanted the 4k UHD version, and went to buy the movie again, going to Amazon, of course. Yet this time, they were all sold out, with a message "Unavailable", not out of stock with an ETA date - like normal.
This was very strange. I hopped over to Best Buy, they did not have any in stock. But Target did. So I purchase a copy from them.
I got the movie. Same thing. 4K UHD did not play. AGAIN!
I started the return back to Target. And... They could only refund the money, they too, did not require a return. Now I had two playable blu-ray versions, for absolutely free.
Could it be the manufacturer pooched the released? Seems so, but I want my 4k UHD version. Eh, let me try walmart online. of course they had it.
I received the walmart copy. That was dorked up too. Same thing, no need to return it, refund in a day or two.
So, I sat with 3 dorked up 4k UHDs and 3 playable blu-ray copies. All for free.
At this point, no one had it for sale, all unavailable... Yep had to be a manufacturer defect.
I sent my friend a copy for free, he was just plain old happy with the blu-ray, just like I was.
To make a long story short, the manufacturer re-released it. I picked up a new copy and it all worked. just fine.
and so it goes.
sirhawkeye64
Forum Pro
For me, I don't buy enough gear to want the payboo card. Usually my local ("independent") store generally has "we pay the sales tax" deals at least twice a year so I just try to time my purchases (and sometimes they'll even couple it with 0% interst for 12 or 24 months although that is usually managed by a partner financing company).
But I never felt that I ordered enough often enough to really make the Payboo card worthwhile, and it can be dangerous for those who have GAS or cannot pay it off within 3 months to make it worth it (as I think we figured that on average, 3 months of interest is about equal to sales tax in most states).
But you are correct in that this does kill off some of the local stores, but at the same time, some of these stores can be a bit more competitive, like my local st ore is. T hey will match any price on Nikon gear providing it's being sold by an authorized Nikon reseller (by which prevents anyone from selling gear significantly lower or at grey market prices, although it does seem Nikon allows accessory bundles, but the price of the item itself has to be the same as everyone else that's a license reseller). But anyway, they price match to pretty much anyone so they're bringing in a lot of business as a result (they just opened another store in Michigan apparently, which is a bit of a head scratcher to me as it's only about 20-30 min from one of their other stores). But the other 2 stores (in IL and OH) are spaced out obviously.
There was only ONE time that I can recall where they couldn't match the price -- and that was when the 24-120 went on sale for $200 off back in 2022, but this was a very SHORT sale, like 1 or 2 days, but they said they couldn't price match BestBuy who had it for $200 off, but they understood why I went with BB on that purchase (it's $200). as the promo may have been for certain types of resellers only (as Nikon has different classifications for their resellers and that might have been why). But everything else they have price matched for me (not just Nikon gear, but most things).
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PLEASE NOTE: I usually unsubscribe from forums and comments after a period of time, so if I do not respond, that is likely the reason. Feel free to PM me if you have a questions or need clarification about a comment I made.
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BillyBobSenna
Senior Member
If you have the means to pay off your purchases each month and you buy a lot of gear, getting Payboo is a no brainer. Not sure why it’s called a gimmick. Payboo has a gimmick just like my Costco card has a gimmick.
Exactly. I think B&H is like Adobe or Apple, a business that seems to generate a lot of passion which may be the main trigger for the chatter more so than the specific store card. Every day I am bombarded by postal mail and online with offers for credit cards and store cards with points or airline miles or donations to an educational institution or free Prime shipping or cash back, etc, etc— gimmicks intended to encourage me to impulsively spend more than I can pay off each month.
Before calling it a gimmick one must read the agreement (contract) they signed when applying for the card:
Manage your account
d.comenity.net
I want a $4000 camera. I don’t want to pay $300 sales tax to NY or to a local dealer.
Comenity Bank agrees to give me $4300 until the end of the month to buy that camera from B&H.
B&H agrees to cover the NY sales tax on that camera.
I agree to pay Comenity Bank 36% interest on any balance I have not paid back by the end of the month.
If I view that as a gimmick because I am offended by my eventual responsibility, I should not sign up for the card.
Greg7579
Forum Pro
It's a gimmick that works in my favor. I say gimmick because the entire business model premise is that they know that they will make money even with initially going in the hole for the extra tax amount, and to me the whole flow seems different than any card I have ever had in my life. It is different because no other card that I know of behaves this way or pays more up than what you are paying.
It is nothing like a Costco model, so I don't get that analogy. I love and trust Costco while I fear Comity even though I know it benefits me greatly. I fear Comity like a degenerate gambler would fear the local loan shark bookie who has some muscle.
I will admit that it has caught me three times and I have had the card since the week it started and use it more than any normal person should (because of my high-end camera, computer and electronic equipment purchasing habits)
Once I was traveling and forgot to pay the card for the purchase the day I bought it (my rule). I ended up paying it off 1 day late (my fault) and it was a 70-dollar late fee plus those extremely large interest charges that kicked in and made them more money than the tax they paid. So, that month they won, and I lost. That one day cost me more than the tax I had saved, and I thus fell into their business model of what they expect from most Americans.
Whenever I make a purchase at B&H with that card, I immediately pay the amount when I'm notified that the product shipped, but sometimes something weird happens and I have to check the site every couple of days to make sure there is no small balance on there that will trigger the penalty. There have been several months that I was surprised to see very small balances remaining after having paid the entire amount.
For example, I recently purchased a 4,000-dollar GF 30 tilt-shift lens and paid the 4000 to the account an hours after B&H said it shipped. Then a week later I checked and there was a 2-dollar balance from some kind of interest carryover that was a mystery because it had not been there when I paid off the full amount, so I just paid it.
With that card, pay it off in full when the item ships and then check it once a week. You have to keep it at zero. Go one day over and you fall into the deeply dug trap - much more so than normal cards.
It is nothing like a Costco model, so I don't get that analogy. I love and trust Costco while I fear Comity even though I know it benefits me greatly. I fear Comity like a degenerate gambler would fear the local loan shark bookie who has some muscle.
I will admit that it has caught me three times and I have had the card since the week it started and use it more than any normal person should (because of my high-end camera, computer and electronic equipment purchasing habits)
Once I was traveling and forgot to pay the card for the purchase the day I bought it (my rule). I ended up paying it off 1 day late (my fault) and it was a 70-dollar late fee plus those extremely large interest charges that kicked in and made them more money than the tax they paid. So, that month they won, and I lost. That one day cost me more than the tax I had saved, and I thus fell into their business model of what they expect from most Americans.
Whenever I make a purchase at B&H with that card, I immediately pay the amount when I'm notified that the product shipped, but sometimes something weird happens and I have to check the site every couple of days to make sure there is no small balance on there that will trigger the penalty. There have been several months that I was surprised to see very small balances remaining after having paid the entire amount.
For example, I recently purchased a 4,000-dollar GF 30 tilt-shift lens and paid the 4000 to the account an hours after B&H said it shipped. Then a week later I checked and there was a 2-dollar balance from some kind of interest carryover that was a mystery because it had not been there when I paid off the full amount, so I just paid it.
With that card, pay it off in full when the item ships and then check it once a week. You have to keep it at zero. Go one day over and you fall into the deeply dug trap - much more so than normal cards.
sirhawkeye64
Forum Pro
If you consider the average sales tax is say 7% in the US (higher in some states, lower / none in others), basically it comes down to the break-even point of being 3 months vs paying the interest after 3 months on average (based on an APR of 29.99% as of today and an average 7% sales tax rate). I mean it is possible to at least break even but my guess is that their data suggests that the majority of people do not pay it off within the 3-4 months they need to to offset the taxes and that's how they can continue to offer it.
So it's not a gimmick per-se, but people really should do the math before going for it (I think what happens is many people don't weigh out the cost and they treat it like it's a credit card, which it is, but they buy more than maybe they had intended to in the first place if they didn't have access to it).
But for some they might be better off just paying the tax and getting a longer term like 12-24 months at 0% interest instead or just something considerably lower than 29.99%, particularly if they are not 99% sure they can pay it off within 3 (or even 6 months).
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PLEASE NOTE: I usually unsubscribe from forums and comments after a period of time, so if I do not respond, that is likely the reason. Feel free to PM me if you have a questions or need clarification about a comment I made.
Let me disagree.
If you pay right away, you save, say, 7% from sales tax (mine is is a little bit less, but for NYC residents it is even higher).
If you pay the full price using a 0% interest card, you would make money only if you made profit of at least 7% during the grace period. There are banks that offer high enough savings rates at the moment, but this will not last long, and do not forget to add income tax to this, BTW.
If you pay right away, you save, say, 7% from sales tax (mine is is a little bit less, but for NYC residents it is even higher).
If you pay the full price using a 0% interest card, you would make money only if you made profit of at least 7% during the grace period. There are banks that offer high enough savings rates at the moment, but this will not last long, and do not forget to add income tax to this, BTW.
sirhawkeye64
Forum Pro
You're not making a profit on anything. You're only skipping the tax with the payboo card. A profit implies you made more than you paid for the item. But again, as I said, if you pay it off within the reasonable time, you can avoid this tax and save that money, but their data probably tells them most people don't and that's how they make a profit from financing.
And I need to correct myself, the APR is actually 35.99% percent, not 29.99% so even worse. So this does change the calcluation to be more like 2.5 months before you break even (so we'll say 2 since you'd have to have the balance paid off by the third month anyway).
If you bought it and paid it off within the 25 day grace period, then you do save the tax, and you would up until about 2.5 months where at 7% at least, it would wash out. But again, it goes back to my comment about their data and what it tells them. If even 1/2 of the people paid off their cards within the grace period or 2 months, then they likely wouldn't make as much. Banks know that the majority of people don't pay off their CC bills every month, it's a fact and you can go look up the data.
I would also read the terms of their card. as things like this also appear in the terms:
"How to Avoid Paying InterestYour due date is at least 25 days after the close of each billing period. We will not charge you interest on purchases if you pay your entire balance by the due date each month. If you do not, you will not get a grace period on purchases again until you pay the entire balance by the due date for two billing periods in a row."
So for example if you don't pay your bill in full in the first month (25 days) then you cannot get the other offers like 0% for 12 months OR no sales tax, in fact you may not even get the sales tax credit until you pay off your original balance.
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M
Mark B.
Guest
At least B&H is not a huge conglomerate with a chain of stores across the US. For New Yorkers, they are local. For the rest of us with few or no local options, their selection is a great resource.
M
Mark B.
Guest
They took the return with no hassle, isn't that the bottom line?
This has nothing to do with Amazon or any other retailer return policies. Quite clearly the manufacturer released a defective batch of product.
chipman02
Forum Enthusiast
Credit card companies make their money from transaction fees, from 1.15% to 3.15%, depending on card, collected on every sale.
I run 4 credit cards for their cash back, never pay interest. Looking at the numbers they added 4.8% to my annual income. That's double what Uncle Sam is handing out for SS COLA.
I run 4 credit cards for their cash back, never pay interest. Looking at the numbers they added 4.8% to my annual income. That's double what Uncle Sam is handing out for SS COLA.
BillyBobSenna
Senior Member
sirhawkeye64
Forum Pro
Having multiple cards can help your credit score in some respects, if you manage it properly. If not, it can hurt obviously. Some cards also don't give the same level of points as others, and some run promos particularly around the holidays so having a few (like 2 or 3, but maybe not 4 or more) does make sense so you can capture the most points between them, but personally I never felt that the points amounted to much anyway and people usually fall into the trap regarding points).
I have one card I regularly use for points purposes, but it doesn't sway my purchases as this card is only used when I travel, and I'm lucky if it pays for one or two nights a year at a nice hotel....
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PLEASE NOTE: I usually unsubscribe from forums and comments after a period of time, so if I do not respond, that is likely the reason. Feel free to PM me if you have a questions or need clarification about a comment I made.
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I have two cards with points I can spend almost anywhere I want. Normally one is used for almost all purchases including my electric bill. I check every other day and as soon as a purchase clears I pay it off. The other is used primarily for anything to do with the cats, Easy way to track spending. It must be close to 15 years since I have had to pay interest on a credit card.
Three weeks ago I spent nearly $20,000 between two vendors for home improvements. They both allowed me to put it all on my credit card, same price as cash. Until it all cleared and I paid it off (matter of days) I used my secondary card.
Thankfully I live in a sales tax free state.
chipman02
Forum Enthusiast
6.5% Payboo, + occasional +5% promo bonus
5% Amazon, + occasional +5% promo bonus
3% Savor for restaurants, I'm single and a lousy cook
1.5% on everything else.
It's free money, why pass it up?
So the first time i've used the %0 Financing for 24 months which didn't end up being used. It's the way Comenity/Bread financial apply payments to the account how they decide as stated in one of the fine print notices where they will pay off lower interest rates first at their digression.
So lets say i had $1500 0% in balance. Made a $400 non-zero purchase. And then the next day Pay $1500. Since the $400 purchase is at a higher interest rate. They apply the payment of $1500 to the 0%
Essentially meaning if you have any balance using a Promo financing. You're not really able to use their card after that if you're trying to take advantage of that.
This is more of a Comenity/Bread thing trying to screw you over.
So lets say i had $1500 0% in balance. Made a $400 non-zero purchase. And then the next day Pay $1500. Since the $400 purchase is at a higher interest rate. They apply the payment of $1500 to the 0%
Essentially meaning if you have any balance using a Promo financing. You're not really able to use their card after that if you're trying to take advantage of that.
This is more of a Comenity/Bread thing trying to screw you over.
abe4652
Senior Member
This can all be avoided by refusing to treat this Payboo card as a mechanism for spreading out payments.
Just buy something for $1,000, use the card, get charged the 8.75% tax, get it instantly refunded by B&H, and walk away having saved $87.
And make sure to pay it off by the end of the month.
Greg7579
Forum Pro
This guy gets it! LOL. That is what I've been trying to say for a year here. This is not the kind of card you want to spread out payments on or bite on any interest-free offers.
It is simple. Use the card as a way to get State tax instantly removed (transparently reimbursed) and pay it off the next day. Don't forget to pay it all (100%) off or the penalties are steep and you lose the entire advantage while suffering the disadvantages of very high interest rates and penalties. Pay it all of immediately and it is instant free money.
This is a big thing for me because I spend a lot of money at B&H and I'm basically paying zero state tax on every purchase (although Texas is getting their tax).
sirhawkeye64
Forum Pro
A lot of them are like this. My Best Buy card I think is like this as well, they pay off the oldest balances first regardless of APR. But I only use the card when I can get 0% interest (I don't buy anything on it that does not qualify for 0%). So effectively, to date, I've never paid any interest to them in the 10 years I've had it. Now if I buy something that has 0% for 24 months and then later buy something that has 0% for only 12 months, I basically have to pay off both within 12 months, but I know this, and avoid it. Although generally anything I have bought on the 12months for 0% has been smaller stuff that I could very well pay off in 2 months anyway so this was never really a problem for me personally, but I tend to avoid having those situations where a shorter promo follows a longer one. It's all about timing, if you can time it right, you can benefit.
For example, when I bought my Z 100-400 and then the Z MC 105, the Z MC 105 didn't qualify for the 24 months financing like the Z 100-400 did, but only had 12 months. Both are now paid off, but basically it meant I only got 12 month interest free in the end.
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* PLEASE NOTE: I generally unsubscribe from forums/comments after a period of time has passed, so if I do not respond, that is likely the reason. *
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