Entry level OM System camera - what should it be?

Sam Bennett said:

cathal gantly said:

gary0319 said:

Whatever we might think would be a good entry offering without having that kind of information is just fantasy, IMO.

Click to expand...

Absolutely agree Gary!

Reminds me of cries of "OMDS should make a Pen-F.ii". That camera failed, and Olympus said so, albeit politely. They know the development cost, timescales and resources required. They understand the supply chain. They know what price it has to sell for. They know the return they need. They have the sales data. People here have none of that.

Click to expand...

I don't disagree with that, but I would also say that they have current data about the market, and they're not going to make decisions based on what the market looked like ten years ago to make decisions now. That the PEN-F failed ten years ago, doesn't really say much about whether an equivalent product would succeed today, in today's market.

Click to expand...

But you are saying that without still knowing any data.

Obviously the Pen F failed to entice buyers.

Obviously OM has little money to 'take a chance'....

Obviously the current OM5ii has picked up purchasers where the Pen F didn't .

Obviously OM has a EP7 which admittedly can be a stepping off point to improve upon if they choose. But certainly not all off the features of the Pen F replace, the OM5ii

Jaime100 said:

Sam Bennett said:

cathal gantly said:

gary0319 said:

Whatever we might think would be a good entry offering without having that kind of information is just fantasy, IMO.

Click to expand...

Absolutely agree Gary!

Reminds me of cries of "OMDS should make a Pen-F.ii". That camera failed, and Olympus said so, albeit politely. They know the development cost, timescales and resources required. They understand the supply chain. They know what price it has to sell for. They know the return they need. They have the sales data. People here have none of that.

Click to expand...

I don't disagree with that, but I would also say that they have current data about the market, and they're not going to make decisions based on what the market looked like ten years ago to make decisions now. That the PEN-F failed ten years ago, doesn't really say much about whether an equivalent product would succeed today, in today's market.

Click to expand...

But you are saying that without still knowing any data.

Click to expand...

Not sure why that matters? The only point I'm making is that the data from ten years ago doesn't mean much. The data from today is what matters.

And a good bit of the data that matters here isn't just about people in the market, but the trends being seen in the industry. For instance, 2016 was (IMO) a really pivotal moment in the smartphone industry - it's the year that the Google Pixel and a bunch of other great phones were released that become much more credible "camera replacements". That crop of phones is what personally led me to stop using a dedicated camera as my EDC. It was pretty bad timing for Olympus.

If you fast forward today, my attitude towards smartphones, like many buyers, has changed. I hate using my smartphone for photography, and I've been pining for a replacement for years. I tried two cameras the PEN-F (about 5 years ago, so well after its release) and the E-P7. Neither of them fit the bill for me. The OM-3 finally checked most of the boxes (wish it was as compact as the PEN-F, but c'est la vie).

So while 10 years ago, the PEN-F wasn't the right camera for me, the PEN-F II could be today.

Jaime100 said:

Obviously the Pen F failed to entice buyers.

Obviously OM has little money to 'take a chance'....

Obviously the current OM5ii has picked up purchasers where the Pen F didn't .

Click to expand...

Obviously? There is a stunning amount of irony going on here.

Sam Bennett said:

Jaime100 said:

Sam Bennett said:

cathal gantly said:

gary0319 said:

Whatever we might think would be a good entry offering without having that kind of information is just fantasy, IMO.

Click to expand...

Absolutely agree Gary!

Reminds me of cries of "OMDS should make a Pen-F.ii". That camera failed, and Olympus said so, albeit politely. They know the development cost, timescales and resources required. They understand the supply chain. They know what price it has to sell for. They know the return they need. They have the sales data. People here have none of that.

Click to expand...

I don't disagree with that, but I would also say that they have current data about the market, and they're not going to make decisions based on what the market looked like ten years ago to make decisions now. That the PEN-F failed ten years ago, doesn't really say much about whether an equivalent product would succeed today, in today's market.

Click to expand...

But you are saying that without still knowing any data.

Click to expand...

Not sure why that matters? The only point I'm making is that the data from ten years ago doesn't mean much. The data from today is what matters.

And a good bit of the data that matters here isn't just about people in the market, but the trends being seen in the industry. For instance, 2016 was (IMO) a really pivotal moment in the smartphone industry - it's the year that the Google Pixel and a bunch of other great phones were released that become much more credible "camera replacements". That crop of phones is what personally led me to stop using a dedicated camera as my EDC. It was pretty bad timing for Olympus.

If you fast forward today, my attitude towards smartphones, like many buyers, has changed. I hate using my smartphone for photography, and I've been pining for a replacement for years. I tried two cameras the PEN-F (about 5 years ago, so well after its release) and the E-P7. Neither of them fit the bill for me. The OM-3 finally checked most of the boxes (wish it was as compact as the PEN-F, but c'est la vie).

So while 10 years ago, the PEN-F wasn't the right camera for me, the PEN-F II could be today.

Click to expand...

If the OM5ii was made in the same rangefinder design, exactly 'as is, feature wise' ....would that suffice? Is it just 'hood/no hood?"

Also....I totally see your point with smart phones back in 2016 compared to today. Many (not me) were on board to get that latest camera etc. My wife is still on that mission. So perhaps there would be more of a pent up demand now for the Pen F design but, given that the OM5ii is out, isn't a great portion of whatever pent up demand 'was out there' is now sold/bought/purchased with the OM5?

Sam Bennett said:

Sam Bennett said:

Obviously the Pen F failed to entice buyers.

Obviously OM has little money to 'take a chance'....

Obviously the current OM5ii has picked up purchasers where the Pen F didn't .

Click to expand...

Obviously? There is a stunning amount of irony going on here.

Click to expand...

Jaime100 said:

Sam Bennett said:

Jaime100 said:

Sam Bennett said:

cathal gantly said:

gary0319 said:

Whatever we might think would be a good entry offering without having that kind of information is just fantasy, IMO.

Click to expand...

Absolutely agree Gary!

Reminds me of cries of "OMDS should make a Pen-F.ii". That camera failed, and Olympus said so, albeit politely. They know the development cost, timescales and resources required. They understand the supply chain. They know what price it has to sell for. They know the return they need. They have the sales data. People here have none of that.

Click to expand...

I don't disagree with that, but I would also say that they have current data about the market, and they're not going to make decisions based on what the market looked like ten years ago to make decisions now. That the PEN-F failed ten years ago, doesn't really say much about whether an equivalent product would succeed today, in today's market.

Click to expand...

But you are saying that without still knowing any data.

Click to expand...

Not sure why that matters? The only point I'm making is that the data from ten years ago doesn't mean much. The data from today is what matters.

And a good bit of the data that matters here isn't just about people in the market, but the trends being seen in the industry. For instance, 2016 was (IMO) a really pivotal moment in the smartphone industry - it's the year that the Google Pixel and a bunch of other great phones were released that become much more credible "camera replacements". That crop of phones is what personally led me to stop using a dedicated camera as my EDC. It was pretty bad timing for Olympus.

If you fast forward today, my attitude towards smartphones, like many buyers, has changed. I hate using my smartphone for photography, and I've been pining for a replacement for years. I tried two cameras the PEN-F (about 5 years ago, so well after its release) and the E-P7. Neither of them fit the bill for me. The OM-3 finally checked most of the boxes (wish it was as compact as the PEN-F, but c'est la vie).

So while 10 years ago, the PEN-F wasn't the right camera for me, the PEN-F II could be today.

Click to expand...

If the OM5ii was made in the same rangefinder design, exactly 'as is, feature wise' ....would that suffice? Is it just 'hood/no hood?"

Click to expand...

For me? No - there's no turning back from the AF system in the OM-1/OM-3. I personally am happy taking the hit in size/awkwardness to have the AF I love (and the battery life).

As for the market, in general? Probably good enough - although I think they really need to get "Dogs & Cats" Subject Detection in there, at a minimum.

Jaime100 said:

Also....I totally see your point with smart phones back in 2016 compared to today. Many (not me) were on board to get that latest camera etc. My wife is still on that mission. So perhaps there would be more of a pent up demand now for the Pen F design but, given that the OM5ii is out, isn't a great portion of whatever pent up demand 'was out there' is now sold/bought/purchased with the OM5?

Click to expand...

I don't think so. I think that some people just really love the rangefinder "look", or they want something as compact as possible. I see it largely as a "preference". Like a sedan vs hatchback of the same car. Sure, there's some practical differences between the two but a lot of people go one way or the other just because they like the look of it. And there's nothing wrong with that!

oneofone25 said:

Let’s gather ideas for what it should be - let’s not have this be a place to complain about the direction of OM System or how micro 4/3 is a failing system.

I think we should see something like the EP-7 become more common in the U.S. as the entry level camera for OM System. No viewfinder but you can add one with hotshoe. Or something like the old Trip? And make them available in 4-5 different colors?

20Mp non-stacked sensor.

Should it forego video and only be for photography?

metal body or plastic?

one color ?? All black or silver and black? sand color?

maybe redo the small EZ lenses we all used and make them a tad higher quality?

Come on…no complaining. - let’s just brainstorm and have fun with it.

Click to expand...

Where are first-time camera buyers/gift recipients coming from and what do they want to accomplish?

Frustrated phonecam snappers?
Content creators, whatever that actually means?
Impulse buyers ("I always wanted a camera")?

We know they're not spending time in camera forums.

I suspect first camera is less price sensitive than it once was and the days of the $499 two-lens kit stacked on a pallet to the Walmart ceiling are behind us. Also, OMS can't afford to sell loss-leader gear.

Likewise suspect brand awareness is a big challenge for both OMS and Lumix. People know Canon and Nikon as camera brands and know Sony because they own Sony things. The rest? Not much.

Bottom of the lineup needs to be full featured while simple enough to achieve good results out of the box. Today's newbies have shot video and stills using smartphones from the minute they first got one, IOW most of their lives. They post to several social platforms, as do their friends, frenemies, influencers, Joe Frickin' Rogan. They won't be shooting birds and comparing feather detail. No cathedral interiors, no safaris, no Antarctic cruises, no 25-year reunions, no airshows.

They'll shoot fashion and beauty tips. Parties and concerts. Skateboarding, extreme sports, school, shopping, the new boba place. Summer vaycay, hanging out with other bored friends, the dorm room, Beth's new Honda.

Now make a camera for them. (Pro tip: they do not GAF about SLR/rangefinder. They just don't.) It must have the forward-pointing selfie display plus EVF. It needs excellent audio support for the video and good enough C-AF tracking and IS. If they're not successful, early, it will go into a drawer.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Rick

Sam Bennett said:

Jaime100 said:

Sam Bennett said:

Jaime100 said:

Sam Bennett said:

cathal gantly said:

gary0319 said:

Whatever we might think would be a good entry offering without having that kind of information is just fantasy, IMO.

Click to expand...

Absolutely agree Gary!

Reminds me of cries of "OMDS should make a Pen-F.ii". That camera failed, and Olympus said so, albeit politely. They know the development cost, timescales and resources required. They understand the supply chain. They know what price it has to sell for. They know the return they need. They have the sales data. People here have none of that.

Click to expand...

I don't disagree with that, but I would also say that they have current data about the market, and they're not going to make decisions based on what the market looked like ten years ago to make decisions now. That the PEN-F failed ten years ago, doesn't really say much about whether an equivalent product would succeed today, in today's market.

Click to expand...

But you are saying that without still knowing any data.

Click to expand...

Not sure why that matters? The only point I'm making is that the data from ten years ago doesn't mean much. The data from today is what matters.

And a good bit of the data that matters here isn't just about people in the market, but the trends being seen in the industry. For instance, 2016 was (IMO) a really pivotal moment in the smartphone industry - it's the year that the Google Pixel and a bunch of other great phones were released that become much more credible "camera replacements". That crop of phones is what personally led me to stop using a dedicated camera as my EDC. It was pretty bad timing for Olympus.

If you fast forward today, my attitude towards smartphones, like many buyers, has changed. I hate using my smartphone for photography, and I've been pining for a replacement for years. I tried two cameras the PEN-F (about 5 years ago, so well after its release) and the E-P7. Neither of them fit the bill for me. The OM-3 finally checked most of the boxes (wish it was as compact as the PEN-F, but c'est la vie).

So while 10 years ago, the PEN-F wasn't the right camera for me, the PEN-F II could be today.

Click to expand...

If the OM5ii was made in the same rangefinder design, exactly 'as is, feature wise' ....would that suffice? Is it just 'hood/no hood?"

Click to expand...

For me? No - there's no turning back from the AF system in the OM-1/OM-3. I personally am happy taking the hit in size/awkwardness to have the AF I love (and the battery life).

As for the market, in general? Probably good enough - although I think they really need to get "Dogs & Cats" Subject Detection in there, at a minimum.

Click to expand...

HA!.... sadly I think the world cares more about dogs and cats than humans. I was just at the grocery store where they allow pets in....slobbering all over the place today. No, not right. So yes, if we are lowering ourselves as humans to have dog spit in my food.... I do feel they can have that in cameras

Sam Bennett said:

Sam Bennett said:

Also....I totally see your point with smart phones back in 2016 compared to today. Many (not me) were on board to get that latest camera etc. My wife is still on that mission. So perhaps there would be more of a pent up demand now for the Pen F design but, given that the OM5ii is out, isn't a great portion of whatever pent up demand 'was out there' is now sold/bought/purchased with the OM5?

Click to expand...

I don't think so. I think that some people just really love the rangefinder "look", or they want something as compact as possible. I see it largely as a "preference". Like a sedan vs hatchback of the same car. Sure, there's some practical differences between the two but a lot of people go one way or the other just because they like the look of it. And there's nothing wrong with that!

Click to expand...

Jaime100 said:

Sam Bennett said:

Jaime100 said:

Sam Bennett said:

Jaime100 said:

Sam Bennett said:

cathal gantly said:

gary0319 said:

Whatever we might think would be a good entry offering without having that kind of information is just fantasy, IMO.

Click to expand...

Absolutely agree Gary!

Reminds me of cries of "OMDS should make a Pen-F.ii". That camera failed, and Olympus said so, albeit politely. They know the development cost, timescales and resources required. They understand the supply chain. They know what price it has to sell for. They know the return they need. They have the sales data. People here have none of that.

Click to expand...

I don't disagree with that, but I would also say that they have current data about the market, and they're not going to make decisions based on what the market looked like ten years ago to make decisions now. That the PEN-F failed ten years ago, doesn't really say much about whether an equivalent product would succeed today, in today's market.

Click to expand...

But you are saying that without still knowing any data.

Click to expand...

Not sure why that matters? The only point I'm making is that the data from ten years ago doesn't mean much. The data from today is what matters.

And a good bit of the data that matters here isn't just about people in the market, but the trends being seen in the industry. For instance, 2016 was (IMO) a really pivotal moment in the smartphone industry - it's the year that the Google Pixel and a bunch of other great phones were released that become much more credible "camera replacements". That crop of phones is what personally led me to stop using a dedicated camera as my EDC. It was pretty bad timing for Olympus.

If you fast forward today, my attitude towards smartphones, like many buyers, has changed. I hate using my smartphone for photography, and I've been pining for a replacement for years. I tried two cameras the PEN-F (about 5 years ago, so well after its release) and the E-P7. Neither of them fit the bill for me. The OM-3 finally checked most of the boxes (wish it was as compact as the PEN-F, but c'est la vie).

So while 10 years ago, the PEN-F wasn't the right camera for me, the PEN-F II could be today.

Click to expand...

If the OM5ii was made in the same rangefinder design, exactly 'as is, feature wise' ....would that suffice? Is it just 'hood/no hood?"

Click to expand...

For me? No - there's no turning back from the AF system in the OM-1/OM-3. I personally am happy taking the hit in size/awkwardness to have the AF I love (and the battery life).

As for the market, in general? Probably good enough - although I think they really need to get "Dogs & Cats" Subject Detection in there, at a minimum.

Click to expand...

HA!.... sadly I think the world cares more about dogs and cats than humans. I was just at the grocery store where they allow pets in....slobbering all over the place today. No, not right. So yes, if we are lowering ourselves as humans to have dog spit in my food.... I do feel they can have that in cameras

Click to expand...

Hah! Even as a dog lover/owner, I feel you there. I draw the line at supermarkets.

But seriously, if they're marketing OMS, as a brand, to Outdoor Adventurers, they're missing the market without Subject Detection modes other than Human. Need "Pets" at a minimum there.

Honestly, it's not a bad entry level camera. The price is competitive with the Fuji X-S20 (also arguably an entry level camera) and it has everything a new photographer needs to get started. It seems unlikely that OM will be able to compete with CaNikOny on price so Fuji seems like a better frame of reference for me.

Alternatively, there's clearly a market for slightly smaller cameras with no EVF and a flip-out screen (X-M5, Z30). If they could re-use most of the parts (20mp sensor, current or previous generation IBIS) and fit them into a slightly smaller package to get the price down a bit that'd be an interesting option. That would also have the added benefit of reaching out to a different demographic from the bird/wildlife crew.

Elemental Photography said:

Honestly, it's not a bad entry level camera. The price is competitive with the Fuji X-S20 (also arguably an entry level camera) and it has everything a new photographer needs to get started. It seems unlikely that OM will be able to compete with CaNikOny on price so Fuji seems like a better frame of reference for me.

Alternatively, there's clearly a market for slightly smaller cameras with no EVF and a flip-out screen (X-M5, Z30). If they could re-use most of the parts (20mp sensor, current or previous generation IBIS) and fit them into a slightly smaller package to get the price down a bit that'd be an interesting option. That would also have the added benefit of reaching out to a different demographic from the bird/wildlife crew.

Click to expand...

Entry-level to me is literally "what's the cheapest camera that will get me into a system". That's not really the OM-5, IMO. Even the outgoing model is too expensive.

Camera Sensor Price (Body Only, USD)

1. Canon EOS R50 APS‑C ~$679
2. Canon EOS R100 APS‑C ~$479
3. Nikon Z30 APS‑C ~$550
4. Nikon Z50 APS‑C ~$800
5. Sony ZV‑E10 APS‑C ~$648
6. Sony a6100 APS‑C ~$699
7. Fujifilm X‑T30 II APS‑C ~$799
8. Olympus E‑M10 Mark IV MFT ~$599
9. OM System OM‑5 MFT ~$999
10. Panasonic GX85 MFT ~$497
11. Panasonic G100 MFT <$550

--
Sam Bennett
Instagram: @swiftbennett

Skeeterbytes said:

oneofone25 said:

Let’s gather ideas for what it should be - let’s not have this be a place to complain about the direction of OM System or how micro 4/3 is a failing system.

I think we should see something like the EP-7 become more common in the U.S. as the entry level camera for OM System. No viewfinder but you can add one with hotshoe. Or something like the old Trip? And make them available in 4-5 different colors?

20Mp non-stacked sensor.

Should it forego video and only be for photography?

metal body or plastic?

one color ?? All black or silver and black? sand color?

maybe redo the small EZ lenses we all used and make them a tad higher quality?

Come on…no complaining. - let’s just brainstorm and have fun with it.

Click to expand...

Where are first-time camera buyers/gift recipients coming from and what do they want to accomplish?

Frustrated phonecam snappers?
Content creators, whatever that actually means?
Impulse buyers ("I always wanted a camera")?

We know they're not spending time in camera forums.

I suspect first camera is less price sensitive than it once was and the days of the $499 two-lens kit stacked on a pallet to the Walmart ceiling are behind us. Also, OMS can't afford to sell loss-leader gear.

Click to expand...

I suspect the first dedicated camera with an Apple logo on the front will pretty much spell the end of the debate and the camera industry as we know it. Particularly if it pairs seamlessly with its companion phone.

Skeeterbytes said:

Likewise suspect brand awareness is a big challenge for both OMS and Lumix. People know Canon and Nikon as camera brands and know Sony because they own Sony things. The rest? Not much.

Bottom of the lineup needs to be full featured while simple enough to achieve good results out of the box. Today's newbies have shot video and stills using smartphones from the minute they first got one, IOW most of their lives. They post to several social platforms, as do their friends, frenemies, influencers, Joe Frickin' Rogan. They won't be shooting birds and comparing feather detail. No cathedral interiors, no safaris, no Antarctic cruises, no 25-year reunions, no airshows.

They'll shoot fashion and beauty tips. Parties and concerts. Skateboarding, extreme sports, school, shopping, the new boba place. Summer vaycay, hanging out with other bored friends, the dorm room, Beth's new Honda.

Now make a camera for them. (Pro tip: they do not GAF about SLR/rangefinder. They just don't.) It must have the forward-pointing selfie display plus EVF. It needs excellent audio support for the video and good enough C-AF tracking and IS. If they're not successful, early, it will go into a drawer.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Rick

Click to expand...

gary0319 said:

Skeeterbytes said:

oneofone25 said:

Let’s gather ideas for what it should be - let’s not have this be a place to complain about the direction of OM System or how micro 4/3 is a failing system.

I think we should see something like the EP-7 become more common in the U.S. as the entry level camera for OM System. No viewfinder but you can add one with hotshoe. Or something like the old Trip? And make them available in 4-5 different colors?

20Mp non-stacked sensor.

Should it forego video and only be for photography?

metal body or plastic?

one color ?? All black or silver and black? sand color?

maybe redo the small EZ lenses we all used and make them a tad higher quality?

Come on…no complaining. - let’s just brainstorm and have fun with it.

Click to expand...

Where are first-time camera buyers/gift recipients coming from and what do they want to accomplish?

Frustrated phonecam snappers?
Content creators, whatever that actually means?
Impulse buyers ("I always wanted a camera")?

We know they're not spending time in camera forums.

I suspect first camera is less price sensitive than it once was and the days of the $499 two-lens kit stacked on a pallet to the Walmart ceiling are behind us. Also, OMS can't afford to sell loss-leader gear.

Click to expand...

I suspect the first dedicated camera with an Apple logo on the front will pretty much spell the end of the debate and the camera industry as we know it. Particularly if it pairs seamlessly with its companion phone.

Click to expand...

I can't imagine that ever happening. Why would they bother since they already, effectively, dominate the "camera" market?

That said, if it meant they introduced a new camera connection/file transfer protocol for other manufacturers to use, I'd welcome it!

Looks like at least Canon sees the OM-5 as a threat!





--
Sam Bennett
Instagram: @swiftbennett

The best entry level camera should be a used camera 1 or 2 generations back.

There are enough quality ones out in the 2nd hand market to satisfy need. If you have to buy new, then I would recommend factory refurbish.

I don't see much value in building a dedicated 'cheap' camera in 2025.

ikolbyi said:

The best entry level camera should be a used camera 1 or 2 generations back.

There are enough quality ones out in the 2nd hand market to satisfy need. If you have to buy new, then I would recommend factory refurbish.

I don't see much value in building a dedicated 'cheap' camera in 2025.

Click to expand...

I completely agree, my current pick for a beginners body would be the OM-5.1, of which there are still plenty available brand new and available for under $700 (!). Cheaper still on the used market.

At the same time, it is very difficult to convince clueless beginners the do not need to buy the newest models. From my observations of tourists and at my local camera shops, beginners mostly want new, cheap, and flashy gear not necessarily for the hardware performance or even taking photos altogether, but more to show-off and and say "I have a camera so I'm cool" on their social media.

Take notes from Fuji, their lower end models aren't necessarily great performers but they still get gobbled up, mainly because the bodies LOOK good and the marketing is absolutely suffocating. Most beginners don't buy cameras to take photos, they buy cameras to look cool (in their eyes).

I have a different view.

They need a relatively cheap, simple, fixed lens compact with some nostalgia factor and portability. I do not actually think it NEEDS weather sealing, and for something to price low, it may be impossible.

Keep in mind the OM range ACTUALLY starts with the TG. It's a good camera, though not competitive with IQ vs the MFT stuff above it. That's $500. So right now, that's entry level, though they have not yet explicitly connected it all into the range very well.

They could put a not-durable pocket compact with a similarly old sensor below it, for $400 and the "my main nature is central park" crowd. It needs acceptable video and integration with smartphone social sharing. I am sorry, but that is just the need these days.

Reality? OM hasn't got the pockets for that kind of thing. The camera, maybe. An awesome mobile app, no.

Alternatively, I can tell you want I WANT OM to make entry level, which is a $499 1 inch compact rangefinder with some of their computational bits and manual controls and a usable zoom range (24-80, etc), sized no bigger than a deck of Uno cards. I might as well ask them to send me a free curry as ask for that..

MFT sensor

oneofone25 said:

Let’s gather ideas for what it should be - let’s not have this be a place to complain about the direction of OM System or how micro 4/3 is a failing system.

I think we should see something like the EP-7 become more common in the U.S. as the entry level camera for OM System. No viewfinder but you can add one with hotshoe. Or something like the old Trip? And make them available in 4-5 different colors?

20Mp non-stacked sensor.

Should it forego video and only be for photography?

metal body or plastic?

one color ?? All black or silver and black? sand color?

maybe redo the small EZ lenses we all used and make them a tad higher quality?

Come on…no complaining. - let’s just brainstorm and have fun with it.

Click to expand...

It was just released: OM5.2.

Wboz88 said:

I have a different view.

They need a relatively cheap, simple, fixed lens compact with some nostalgia factor and portability. I do not actually think it NEEDS weather sealing, and for something to price low, it may be impossible.

Keep in mind the OM range ACTUALLY starts with the TG. It's a good camera, though not competitive with IQ vs the MFT stuff above it. That's $500. So right now, that's entry level, though they have not yet explicitly connected it all into the range very well.

They could put a not-durable pocket compact with a similarly old sensor below it, for $400 and the "my main nature is central park" crowd. It needs acceptable video and integration with smartphone social sharing. I am sorry, but that is just the need these days.

Reality? OM hasn't got the pockets for that kind of thing. The camera, maybe. An awesome mobile app, no.

Alternatively, I can tell you want I WANT OM to make entry level, which is a $499 1 inch compact rangefinder with some of their computational bits and manual controls and a usable zoom range (24-80, etc), sized no bigger than a deck of Uno cards. I might as well ask them to send me a free curry as ask for that..

Click to expand...

The TG series is moreso a niche product than an entry series, despite its lowest price in the product lineup. I can toss the TG-7 into the ocean, drop it on concrete, drag it through the sandy beach and have a screaming toddler jump up and down on it. Few other camera models can withstand this sort of abuse, fewer brand still to even compete in this niche.

The biggest problem I see with fixed-lens models is that they offer next to no intercompatibility with the rest of the M43 ecosystem, namely the incredibly wide selection of lenses. An entry fixed-lens model for sure would help OMS increase their market presence, but would it really entice users to invest into the M43 format?

Kasuobes said:

ikolbyi said:

The best entry level camera should be a used camera 1 or 2 generations back.

There are enough quality ones out in the 2nd hand market to satisfy need. If you have to buy new, then I would recommend factory refurbish.

I don't see much value in building a dedicated 'cheap' camera in 2025.

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I completely agree, my current pick for a beginners body would be the OM-5.1, of which there are still plenty available brand new and available for under $700 (!). Cheaper still on the used market.

At the same time, it is very difficult to convince clueless beginners the do not need to buy the newest models. From my observations of tourists and at my local camera shops, beginners mostly want new, cheap, and flashy gear not necessarily for the hardware performance or even taking photos altogether, but more to show-off and and say "I have a camera so I'm cool" on their social media.

Take notes from Fuji, their lower end models aren't necessarily great performers but they still get gobbled up, mainly because the bodies LOOK good and the marketing is absolutely suffocating. Most beginners don't buy cameras to take photos, they buy cameras to look cool (in their eyes).

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You seem to have a very demeaning view of beginners. You obviously have never been one yourself.

Rest assured, beginners buy cameras for the same reasons you do.

Those few that buy cameras to look cool are narcissists, not beginners.

I suspect one of the reasons we’re seeing the new lenses only in Black is it then easier to pair with more colored bodies. We’ve seen the Sand Beige, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see some more fun colors, like you see with Subaru’s Crosstrek line that successfully got a younger audience into the fold.












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Sam Bennett

Instagram: @swiftbennett