macros - aperture, open or close?

Trevor Carpenter

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OM Ambassador Emilie Talpin recommends that when taking insects macro we ignore diffraction warnings and close down the aperture to ensure that the subject is fully in focus with maximum DOF. Another you tuber Paul Wright takes fantastic insect macros (stunning flight shots) and argues that we need a wide open aperture for best results. Who is right? I tend to sit with Emilie because find it far too easy to get a picture where the subject is nearly in focus when I'd really like the complete subject.
A couple of videos below with them talking about macros

Emilie Talpin

Paul Wright
 
OM Ambassador Emilie Talpin recommends that when taking insects macro we ignore diffraction warnings and close down the aperture to ensure that the subject is fully in focus with maximum DOF. Another you tuber Paul Wright takes fantastic insect macros (stunning flight shots) and argues that we need a wide open aperture for best results. Who is right? I tend to sit with Emilie because find it far too easy to get a picture where the subject is nearly in focus when I'd really like the complete subject.
A couple of videos below with them talking about macros

Emilie Talpin

Paul Wright
There is no better or worse, it is a matter of opinion. Whose photos do you prefer?

Personally, I tend towards greater DoF but rarely past f8, and, don't forget, the closer you get, the shallower the DoF.

I've tried enticing insects to remain still and pose, so I can reliably use focus bracketing/stacking but they consistently refuse $20, and seemingly ignore my pleas however polite.
 
How far from subject ?

How much magnification ?

I used to shoot mostly at F16 till last year. No it's F13/F14.

F16. Single shot.

af219d5b26a14f779926710dac4c0e21.jpg

F13 Single shot

a08b9408a5204d5197319c037ba96eae.jpg

F14 Single shot.

b714ac7370fd4d999a4cc1f4f23afcda.jpg

I would only use F8 on a butterfly, and from a certain distance.

Alex

--
My Street Photography on Instagram @alexgottfriedbonder
 
Talpin is correct, unless you focus stack.
 
If you are looking to do an insect photo that is detailed and clinical of the subject, sure, stopping down will get you what you need.

On the other hand, if you are doing an environmental portrait of the insect, then incorporating the other elements of its surroundings into the image may be what guides the decision about the optimal DOF you need for that whole composition to work best.

These are two different photographic goals, and technique will follow which type of image you are aiming for.

I tend to work more with the second type of composition, both for insects and flowers, so I do use shallower DOF a lot of the time, as it gives me a lot of control over the appearance of all of the elements, not just the insect, in its natural setting.

This does not mean I don't admire those remarkable, full detail, insect portraits, that some photographers do. Those are just something. But, they aren't my focus, so to speak. :)

So, both options are...correct. It just depends on your style.

-J
 
Macro photography is often about compromises. Paul Wright is shooting insects in flight without a flash. To do this you need to use a fast shutter speed and good autofocus. The best way to achieve this is with a wide aperture and accept that you are not going to get the whole subject in focus. In other words, he has little choice.

Emilie Talpin is shooting largely stationary insects, using manual focus and a flash. With this setup, you do get the choice of a small aperture. You then need to balance how much of the subject to get in focus vs softening of the image due to diffraction. Ideally I would use maximum of f8 (f16 FF equivalent), but sometimes due to the angle of the insect you have to use a smaller aperture (or just get the eyes in focus).
 
Macro photography is often about compromises. Paul Wright is shooting insects in flight without a flash. To do this you need to use a fast shutter speed and good autofocus. The best way to achieve this is with a wide aperture and accept that you are not going to get the whole subject in focus. In other words, he has little choice.

Emilie Talpin is shooting largely stationary insects, using manual focus and a flash. With this setup, you do get the choice of a small aperture. You then need to balance how much of the subject to get in focus vs softening of the image due to diffraction. Ideally I would use maximum of f8 (f16 FF equivalent), but sometimes due to the angle of the insect you have to use a smaller aperture (or just get the eyes in focus).
Good explanation
 
Personal opinion, but I I feel focus stacking is the way to go.

Mike



Female Yellow Dung Fly
Female Yellow Dung Fly
 
OM Ambassador Emilie Talpin recommends that when taking insects macro we ignore diffraction warnings and close down the aperture to ensure that the subject is fully in focus with maximum DOF. Another you tuber Paul Wright takes fantastic insect macros (stunning flight shots) and argues that we need a wide open aperture for best results. Who is right? I tend to sit with Emilie because find it far too easy to get a picture where the subject is nearly in focus when I'd really like the complete subject.
A couple of videos below with them talking about macros

Emilie Talpin

Paul Wright
I disagree with both, depending on your magnification stopping down isn't going to get everything in focus anyway, and the image quality penalty is severe, especially on MFT. Most lenses are also quite soft shot wide open, macro lenses included, so unless you need the light or the background seperation, there is no point to shoot wide open.

Focus stacking is always the way to go unless it is impossible for some reason.

Even at f22 almost nothing would be in focus here and it would be extremely soft, so stacking is the only viable option, even at f7.1 diffraction is already softening the image.
Even at f22 almost nothing would be in focus here and it would be extremely soft, so stacking is the only viable option, even at f7.1 diffraction is already softening the image.
 
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Hi, check out the Macro and Still life photography forum, that is where I learned a lot about macro. Those guys over there are really helpful! Also check out a guy on Youtube, Micael Widell, he knows a lot about macro with M4/3.

I usually shoot when they are still so I shoot between f9-f14. That seems to be a good range. I use a flash at 1/250 sync. I use two diffusers, one that came with the flash and one of those light thin ones that slips over the lens. Adjust it so it over hangs the lens as much as possible. If shooting in the bright sunlight I try to block the sun with my body if I can so the insect will be in the shade. If you don`t and just shoot in the direct sunlight you will get rainbow colored sparkles where the sun shines. To me that doesn`t look good. Good luck!

Edit: I was using my G100 on these bottom onesand could only go to 1/50 with a flash. I have since switched to a G9 and set my camera to 1/250 flash sync, the top picture.

ce049155203b48ba8b7dac36471e9ca8.jpg

2549c25d47ef4383bd8b6154a7b7f88f.jpg

b5a3a3eb1cf5480cb223504ab60562fe.jpg
 
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My pockets are not as deep as I'd like, so I only have the Oly 60 and the Panasonic 30 to use for my macro, but it's the difference between the two lenses that is often the deciding factor on which aperture I'll use, despite both lenses being f2.8's.

The Panasonic is quicker to focus and it's my first choice for insects flitting from flower to flower - for stuff that's on the 'go', including moving beetles, spiders and so on.

e89e30f98e0345c18f05b91329b2ceae.jpg

I also prefer it in low light and it's the lens I'll stick on the camera when on walkabout as it gives me a far better chance of getting a photo of anything I see before it flies or runs away. I'll typically have the camera in manual, with ISO on auto, a slowish shutter speed of about 1000 and 5.6 dialled in for aperture. These settings can be changed as the situation develops but it's a good base for me and the light I have here in SW France. With mechanical shutter and in burst mode, it's noticeably more nimble than the Oly 60 for responsiveness. And despite the seemingly huge problem for many people of its short focal length, it can be surprisingly effective at close quarters.

0a41d69c50294003bb815f602ba4b298.jpg

The Oly is great for situations where the quarry is settled and not moving, and where I'll mount a flash and perhaps an achromat. It's a lens to be used at a measured pace. It can be used for flying insects, but that has to happen where the action is repetitive and easily anticipated, such as a particular flower that is producing pollen constantly and you'll notice a pattern to the visitors. With its longer minimum FD the Oly is also great for shy insects (even that extra 8.8cms of distance can mean something sometimes), and at 1:1 it's the obvious choice. As the Panasonic does not do anything with achromats the Oly is also the choice if I want extra magnification.

4405070a68b74d39b7ad0d9690bf8f0f.jpg

All of this can be done with apertures ranging all the way up to f22 if needed, though typically I'll be dialled in to something between f9 and f13 or so - it all depends on the light as m4/3's loses its integrity when you start playing down that low. I find clean files are hard to come by in low light and close magnification, on my GX8. Handheld focus stacking will be a major consideration if I can ever afford to upgrade.

17df6fa919d64ad4ac456e47df29f316.jpg

Both lenses are fairly equal in image quality. I never choose one or the other on that premise, anyway. And if I am shooting indoors, for something other than insects, or an insect in situ, then all of the above can be rearranged to suit. I hasten to add that I've only been shooting insects for a few years, and I am certainly not an expert, but I enjoy shooting stuff that moves - it's challenging and sometimes rewarding. The emphasis on 'sometimes' is important, though! 😂
 
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Hi, check out the Macro and Still life photography forum, that is where I learned a lot about macro. Those guys over there are really helpful! Also check out a guy on Youtube, Micael Widell, he knows a lot about macro with M4/3.

I usually shoot when they are still so I shoot between f9-f14. That seems to be a good range. I use a flash at 1/250 sync. I use two diffusers, one that came with the flash and one of those light thin ones that slips over the lens. Adjust it so it over hangs the lens as much as possible. If shooting in the bright sunlight I try to block the sun with my body if I can so the insect will be in the shade. If you don`t and just shoot in the direct sunlight you will get rainbow colored sparkles where the sun shines. To me that doesn`t look good. Good luck!

Edit: I was using my G100 on these bottom onesand could only go to 1/50 with a flash. I have since switched to a G9 and set my camera to 1/250 flash sync, the top picture.

ce049155203b48ba8b7dac36471e9ca8.jpg

2549c25d47ef4383bd8b6154a7b7f88f.jpg

b5a3a3eb1cf5480cb223504ab60562fe.jpg
Very nice photos.

You mention using 1/250 with your G9. I assume this is with TTL flash.

A few years ago, I was doing macros using an older flash without TTL - one flash was a Vivitar 283 - and I could get sync speeds of 1/350 - 1/500, depending on the body, without any shutter masking on the image.

This is because TTL limits the shutter speed to the X sync value and not the actual shutter duration. A non-TTL flash ignores this and allows you to set a higher shutter speed - the value of which, will depend on the body you are using. E.G. with my EP5, I got 1/350 seconds.

Note: this is Not High Speed Sync (FP) which, I believe, is detrimental to the flash due to over heating.

See here for more info on this.


This allows for greater ambient light control and/or lower motion induced multiple images.

Allan
 
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e8cba1d138434001a3b52288320733df.jpg

Hi, check out the Macro and Still life photography forum, that is where I learned a lot about macro. Those guys over there are really helpful! Also check out a guy on Youtube, Micael Widell, he knows a lot about macro with M4/3.

I usually shoot when they are still so I shoot between f9-f14. That seems to be a good range. I use a flash at 1/250 sync. I use two diffusers, one that came with the flash and one of those light thin ones that slips over the lens. Adjust it so it over hangs the lens as much as possible. If shooting in the bright sunlight I try to block the sun with my body if I can so the insect will be in the shade. If you don`t and just shoot in the direct sunlight you will get rainbow colored sparkles where the sun shines. To me that doesn`t look good. Good luck!

Edit: I was using my G100 on these bottom onesand could only go to 1/50 with a flash. I have since switched to a G9 and set my camera to 1/250 flash sync, the top picture.

ce049155203b48ba8b7dac36471e9ca8.jpg

2549c25d47ef4383bd8b6154a7b7f88f.jpg

b5a3a3eb1cf5480cb223504ab60562fe.jpg
Very nice photos.
Thanks!
You mention using 1/250 with your G9. I assume this is with TTL flash.
My flash is set to manual. If I recall what happened with TTL is I think there is a delay or something was scaring the insects. Forgive me I am still a novice at this. Just manual seems to work better for me.
A few years ago, I was doing macros using an older flash without TTL - one flash was a Vivitar 283 - and I could get sync speeds of 1/350 - 1/500, depending on the body, without any shutter masking on the image.

This is because TTL limits the shutter speed to the X sync value and not the actual shutter duration. A non-TTL flash ignores this and allows you to set a higher shutter speed - the value of which, will depend on the body you are using. E.G. with my EP5, I got 1/350 seconds.
I ended up getting the G9 because of the faster flash sync, 1/250 instead of 1/50 max in the G100. This faster shutter speed really helps if your insect is sitting on a leaf in the wind. Also I have read that some Olympus camera have the ability to focus stack with a flash which would be really helpful if that is what you want to do. Something I wish the Panasonic cameras had. I have not tried that yet.

Thanks for the tips!
Note: this is Not High Speed Sync (FP) which, I believe, is detrimental to the flash due to over heating.

See here for more info on this.

https://strobist.blogspot.com/2007/06/hacking-your-cameras-sync-speed-pt-2.html

This allows for greater ambient light control and/or lower motion induced multiple images.

Allan
 
e8cba1d138434001a3b52288320733df.jpg

Hi, check out the Macro and Still life photography forum, that is where I learned a lot about macro. Those guys over there are really helpful! Also check out a guy on Youtube, Micael Widell, he knows a lot about macro with M4/3.

I usually shoot when they are still so I shoot between f9-f14. That seems to be a good range. I use a flash at 1/250 sync. I use two diffusers, one that came with the flash and one of those light thin ones that slips over the lens. Adjust it so it over hangs the lens as much as possible. If shooting in the bright sunlight I try to block the sun with my body if I can so the insect will be in the shade. If you don`t and just shoot in the direct sunlight you will get rainbow colored sparkles where the sun shines. To me that doesn`t look good. Good luck!

Edit: I was using my G100 on these bottom onesand could only go to 1/50 with a flash. I have since switched to a G9 and set my camera to 1/250 flash sync, the top picture.

ce049155203b48ba8b7dac36471e9ca8.jpg

2549c25d47ef4383bd8b6154a7b7f88f.jpg

b5a3a3eb1cf5480cb223504ab60562fe.jpg
Very nice photos.
Thanks!
You mention using 1/250 with your G9. I assume this is with TTL flash.
My flash is set to manual. If I recall what happened with TTL is I think there is a delay or something was scaring the insects. Forgive me I am still a novice at this. Just manual seems to work better for me.
Yes, Manual is the better mode in this situation. However, the camera will still see the flash as a TTL flash and, therefore, limit the shutter speed. I am suggesting using an older non-TTL flash that the camera will not see.
A few years ago, I was doing macros using an older flash without TTL - one flash was a Vivitar 283 - and I could get sync speeds of 1/350 - 1/500, depending on the body, without any shutter masking on the image.

This is because TTL limits the shutter speed to the X sync value and not the actual shutter duration. A non-TTL flash ignores this and allows you to set a higher shutter speed - the value of which, will depend on the body you are using. E.G. with my EP5, I got 1/350 seconds.
I ended up getting the G9 because of the faster flash sync, 1/250 instead of 1/50 max in the G100. This faster shutter speed really helps if your insect is sitting on a leaf in the wind. Also I have read that some Olympus camera have the ability to focus stack with a flash which would be really helpful if that is what you want to do. Something I wish the Panasonic cameras had. I have not tried that yet.
This is High Speed Sync or FP flash. Yes it works but at the detriment of the flash unit due to over heating of the flash head.
Thanks for the tips!
Note: this is Not High Speed Sync (FP) which, I believe, is detrimental to the flash due to over heating.

See here for more info on this.

https://strobist.blogspot.com/2007/06/hacking-your-cameras-sync-speed-pt-2.html

This allows for greater ambient light control and/or lower motion induced multiple images.

Allan
 
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I ended up getting the G9 because of the faster flash sync, 1/250 instead of 1/50 max in the G100. This faster shutter speed really helps if your insect is sitting on a leaf in the wind. Also I have read that some Olympus camera have the ability to focus stack with a flash which would be really helpful if that is what you want to do. Something I wish the Panasonic cameras had. I have not tried that yet.
You can't focus stack with flash on Panasonic, but you can focus bracket with flash then stack the images afterwards. You need a compatible flash (high-end Panasonic or certain Godox models) if using the flash on the hotshoe, but you can bypass that by connecting any manual flash with a sync cable.

Panasonic's focus bracketing has a significant flash sync advantage over OM's equivalent feature. While OM bracketing requires the use of electronic shutter (1/100 on the OM-1) you can focus bracket at 1/250 (or 1/400 with manual flash) on the G9.

The downside is that you're limited to around 3-5fps (depending on settings) when focus bracketing on the G9, while the OM-1 will bracket at 10fps with flash.
 
OM Ambassador Emilie Talpin recommends that when taking insects macro we ignore diffraction warnings and close down the aperture to ensure that the subject is fully in focus with maximum DOF. Another you tuber Paul Wright takes fantastic insect macros (stunning flight shots) and argues that we need a wide open aperture for best results. Who is right? I tend to sit with Emilie because find it far too easy to get a picture where the subject is nearly in focus when I'd really like the complete subject.
A couple of videos below with them talking about macros

Emilie Talpin

Paul Wright
In macro (with magnification of 1:1 up to 4:1 or so) DOF needs to be as large as possible since background is blurred always in MFT. In close-up it depends, thus in this case MFT has no intrinsic advantage. In micro (5:1 or larger in MFT, 10:1 in full frame) it needs to be open as much as possible.

Example: If light is the problem, because the subject is moving, then use flash, so that you can stopp down.

BiF, OM-System 90 with MC-14 on Lumix G9m2
BiF, OM-System 90 with MC-14 on Lumix G9m2

Also in focus stacking of living subjects a closed aperture helps, to get moving antenna well and quick. Only flat non-moving insects allow for more open aperture, but why to open more than necessary? Just to have more work in post? Example: Stack at 3:1

rose aphids on rose, OM-System 90 with MC14 on Lumix G9m2
rose aphids on rose, OM-System 90 with MC14 on Lumix G9m2

Best regards,

Jens
 

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Thanks for all the constructive feedback. In summary I think the answer is; there is no right answer. It depends.......
 

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