Does Gear Matter? Why Professional Photographers Use CHEAP Cameras

What do you think? Is DP Review just a big marketing scheme to get non-pros to argue about gear and spend tons of cash on gear they do not need?
  1. Pro photographers often just do one genre, like wedding or event, and then you really don't need much. Amateurs like to experiment with new genres, new styles, and new focal lengths.
  2. The objective of the professional is just to produce imagery that the client likes. The objective of the amateur is to produce shots they themselves like. Many (but not all) clients are unlikely to care about sharpness. But producing razor sharp photos is fun and important to the amateur.
  3. The goal of the pro photographer is just to get the job done, whereas the goal of the amateur is to have fun and enjoying new gear is part of the hobby.
The bottom line: pro photographers and amateur photographers do not have the same goals and often, they engage in photography for very different reasons.

This is the reason why I hate videos like this, and hate arguments like this. They are narrow-minded analyses designed to provoke and have little basis in rationality. It's clear that enjoying new toys for the sake of it is a large part of amateur photography, and this forum demonstrates that people derive real social value from talking about new gear, which is outside the domain of professional photography.

Thus, in my opinion, videos like this are idiotic.
All perfectly put.

I'll go a step further. Todays "latest gear" is next years "old hat" and the gear that many of these "pros" were not buying last year but are now using so, at some point even the pros are using the gear that has superseded their old gear, the gear that they thought they didn't need but now do use. In other words, they still upgrade at some point and are then using gear that was new and innovative at one time. Are any of these pros still using box brownies? Or, are any using the first-generation Canon or Nikon DSLR? I bet the majority are just using gear that suits their requirements and that may just be one iteration back or it could also be the very latest gear. It might very well be a 10-year-old DSLR, but as long as it suits their requirement.
I find these type of threads rather daft because most don't really know what they are talking about, what they post is how they perceive the matter or how they wish it to be but with very little relevance to what it is.
Exactly my thoughts.
Most pros neither have the gear that has come into the market in the last three weeks nor have ger that was outdated ten years ago....
Some pros do have the latest gear simply because they are given/lent the newest gear for testing purposes. They may even be allowed to keep them. Some like to have the latest gear just like many amateurs.

Some pros never need to upgrade if what they have serves them well and gets the results they require.

All other pros fall somewhere in between these two extremes.
 
The objective of the professional is just to produce imagery that the client likes. The objective of the amateur is to produce shots they themselves like. Many (but not all) clients are unlikely to care about sharpness. But producing razor sharp photos is fun and important to the amateur.
The definition of what a "pro" is must have morphed quite a bit from my day as I can assure you sharpness was the default requirement, if it wasn't sharp it was in the trash can.
I see posted on this website so many pictures where the focus point is off or the sharpness is off that I can't imagine how anyone would quantify amateurs as being the group who fixates on sharpness. But hey I'm old now and it's a different world.
Well his post was completely wrong on both ends. There are plenty of pros who also shoot for personal use and then there are plenty of amateurs (like me) who take photos for other people to see. Thinking that there is only one shared goal for millions of people you have never met is pretty narrow minded.
 
The objective of the professional is just to produce imagery that the client likes. The objective of the amateur is to produce shots they themselves like. Many (but not all) clients are unlikely to care about sharpness. But producing razor sharp photos is fun and important to the amateur.
The definition of what a "pro" is must have morphed quite a bit from my day as I can assure you sharpness was the default requirement, if it wasn't sharp it was in the trash can.
I see posted on this website so many pictures where the focus point is off or the sharpness is off that I can't imagine how anyone would quantify amateurs as being the group who fixates on sharpness. But hey I'm old now and it's a different world.
Well his post was completely wrong on both ends. There are plenty of pros who also shoot for personal use and then there are plenty of amateurs (like me) who take photos for other people to see. Thinking that there is only one shared goal for millions of people you have never met is pretty narrow minded.
Is a "pro" someone who works full time and earns his living entirely by his/her professional photography work? Or is a pro somebody who works part time at it while having another job? If it's the latter what if they haven't been hired in a month? 6 months? 2 years? are they still a pro?

I routinely see posts on face book groups where somebody will say they are going to be in some city traveling and would love have somebody take pictures of them and their boyfriend in the village square... I will bring 3 changes of clothes... basically some sort of pseudo fashion shoot... and there will be 40 replies from people saying they can do it, with everything from a dedicated camera to a cell phone... are they all pros?
 
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The typical problem here when people use the word PRO is that to some it means proficient (competent/skilled) to others it means professional (what you do for a living...).

Of course some pros are both...but not all.

BTW, I use pro (here...) to mean professional, so not necessarily a master at the job but just someone that pays the bills by taking photos.
 
The objective of the professional is just to produce imagery that the client likes. The objective of the amateur is to produce shots they themselves like. Many (but not all) clients are unlikely to care about sharpness. But producing razor sharp photos is fun and important to the amateur.
The definition of what a "pro" is must have morphed quite a bit from my day as I can assure you sharpness was the default requirement, if it wasn't sharp it was in the trash can.
I see posted on this website so many pictures where the focus point is off or the sharpness is off that I can't imagine how anyone would quantify amateurs as being the group who fixates on sharpness. But hey I'm old now and it's a different world.
I can think of probably 10 things that matter more to the average photo shoot client than sharpness. Hell I never pixel peeped my own wedding photos. You are projecting your values onto everyone and by extension showing how little you understand the average person
 
But I'm not looking for picture perfect, Sports Illustrated front page worthy picture. I want to shoot and capture multiple images, even when she mis-steps and loses balance. But he was convinced that I don't need any of those.
Don't sell yourself short. I once shot a Sports Illustrated cover, using a Sony A55V and an old Minolta 28-100mm f/3.5-5.6 short zoom. Even for the time this was not up-to-date bleeding edge gear.



8c1d5e960d5a43e3ac105a0526ce21f7.jpg

I don't know why my wife was acting up in front of the penguins, but the idea for an SI cover was instantly on my mind. It's the cover for our photobook of the trip.
 
If they are delivering photos and not excuses, and are getting paid fairly for their labors and usage, the answer is yes.

--
Ellis Vener
To see my work, please visit http://www.ellisvener.com
I am on Instagram @EllisVenerStudio
If you like my question or response, please give a thumbs up. My ego needs the strokes.
 
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The objective of the professional is just to produce imagery that the client likes. The objective of the amateur is to produce shots they themselves like. Many (but not all) clients are unlikely to care about sharpness. But producing razor sharp photos is fun and important to the amateur.
The definition of what a "pro" is must have morphed quite a bit from my day as I can assure you sharpness was the default requirement, if it wasn't sharp it was in the trash can.
I see posted on this website so many pictures where the focus point is off or the sharpness is off that I can't imagine how anyone would quantify amateurs as being the group who fixates on sharpness. But hey I'm old now and it's a different world.
I can think of probably 10 things that matter more to the average photo shoot client than sharpness. Hell I never pixel peeped my own wedding photos. You are projecting your values onto everyone and by extension showing how little you understand the average person
Ah, so your definition of "pro" is someone who works for an amateur consumer of photography—say, a bride or a family—while ignoring the many professionals who consume photography as part of their work. You think "mom at a wedding," I think "editor at Sports Illustrated." See how that works? I project, you project. That’s how these conversations usually go: people argue from their own example in their mind without ever actually defining the terms.

Over the years, while I’ve seen plenty of wedding photographers who barely knew what they were doing—what some might label a hack. But I’ve never encountered a hack working under an art director.
 
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Well his post was completely wrong on both ends. There are plenty of pros who also shoot for personal use and then there are plenty of amateurs (like me) who take photos for other people to see. Thinking that there is only one shared goal for millions of people you have never met is pretty narrow minded.
Is a "pro" someone who works full time and earns his living entirely by his/her professional photography work? Or is a pro somebody who works part time at it while having another job? If it's the latter what if they haven't been hired in a month? 6 months? 2 years? are they still a pro?

I routinely see posts on face book groups where somebody will say they are going to be in some city traveling and would love have somebody take pictures of them and their boyfriend in the village square... I will bring 3 changes of clothes... basically some sort of pseudo fashion shoot... and there will be 40 replies from people saying they can do it, with everything from a dedicated camera to a cell phone... are they all pros?
Once upon a time you pretty much had to be a pro (ie somebody who would make a return off spendy cameras) to justify the high cost of high end gear. There were exceptions but it was true enough to shape definitions of "pro". As things have changed i don't like that definition so if i had to offer one, it would be based on skill.

To me, i take "pro" to mean somebody with a high level of knowledge skill and experience, or at least an advanced combo of the three. Because if we simply go by whether somebody makes money, it could be anybody which defeats the purpose of definitions.
  • Novice -knows nearly zero
  • intermediate -still a lot to learn
  • advanced -proficient but not yet to pro level
  • Pro -an expert so to speak
I know this isn't going to jive with many people but this is how i tend to think.
 
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The objective of the professional is just to produce imagery that the client likes. The objective of the amateur is to produce shots they themselves like. Many (but not all) clients are unlikely to care about sharpness. But producing razor sharp photos is fun and important to the amateur.
The definition of what a "pro" is must have morphed quite a bit from my day as I can assure you sharpness was the default requirement, if it wasn't sharp it was in the trash can.
I see posted on this website so many pictures where the focus point is off or the sharpness is off that I can't imagine how anyone would quantify amateurs as being the group who fixates on sharpness. But hey I'm old now and it's a different world.
I can think of probably 10 things that matter more to the average photo shoot client than sharpness. Hell I never pixel peeped my own wedding photos. You are projecting your values onto everyone and by extension showing how little you understand the average person
I wonder if he doesn't mean resolution or detail when he says sharpness. In that respect it's one reason why some of the most serious pros choose medium format as both the lenses and sensors are superior in how much detail you capture. I doubt many of those guys oversharpen their photos but they do care about how much detail they capture, i doubt it has changed much today.
 
There is nothing wrong with being a gearhead and we don't need to idealise professionals. A professional photographer is like a taxi driver that owns their own taxi, while a photog gearhead might drive their Mazda MX-5. They both get from A to B.
 
There is nothing wrong with being a gearhead and we don't need to idealise professionals. A professional photographer is like a taxi driver that owns their own taxi, while a photog gearhead might drive their Mazda MX-5. They both get from A to B.
It’s a bit like the difference between a professional mechanic working on customer cars full-time and an amateur who enjoys working on his own projects when he feels like it. The professional delivers consistent results at a standardized level of quality every time, all the time. The amateur, on the other hand, works on their own terms, with no obligation to meet deadlines or standards beyond their own.


Idolize or not, the entire camera industry built its business based on doing so.
 
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I am a commercial photographer. For decades. I have worked in many areas. Light saloon, portraits, weddings, events you name it. Moved I to digital early, in 1995. Also worked as a professional photo finisher for about a decade. Just saying so that’s my experience. I have also done a lot of photography just for fun. A hobby, landscape mostly.
Of course gear matters. Not always the newest but fit for purpose as many people have said on this thread. It needs to work for what you do and be profitable. Some areas stop working. As an example I have a friend who used to shoot rugby in one of our smaller cities. At current t rates and cost of top new lenses and bodies he would have to shoot about 500 rugby matches to make a profit, so he isn’t interested in that anymore. And honestly none is interested in the photos. Games available on HD tv all the time, magazines gone and newspapers almost gone. So he has moved on.
If there is a difference between pro and amateur regarding equipment it’s that amateurs don’t have to do the calculations my friend did with rugby matches.
Another difference is pros tend to invest more in systems. A range of bags, lots of tripods, cables all with Velcro straps to keep them under control, various boxes and trolleys to move gear around. A styling box with blocks and li t rollers and cleaning material. That type of thing. Sure amateurs do this too hut by my observations not to the same level.
Pros tend to be more practiced, smoother, faster. Not necessarily more skilled. You get extremely accomplished amateurs.
 
Regarding

". . . the myth that you need expensive, cutting-edge equipment to take amazing photos."

I've never heard or read of any such myth.

In my opinion the producer of that video has constructed a false premise just so that he/she can shoot it down.

jj
 
The objective of the professional is just to produce imagery that the client likes. The objective of the amateur is to produce shots they themselves like. Many (but not all) clients are unlikely to care about sharpness. But producing razor sharp photos is fun and important to the amateur.
The definition of what a "pro" is must have morphed quite a bit from my day as I can assure you sharpness was the default requirement, if it wasn't sharp it was in the trash can.
I see posted on this website so many pictures where the focus point is off or the sharpness is off that I can't imagine how anyone would quantify amateurs as being the group who fixates on sharpness. But hey I'm old now and it's a different world.
Exactly. Standards have moved.

Now in commercial photography, especially in fashion, you see more and more companies and clients asking for a picture that's blurry (with motion, not misfocus), or badly lit.

Hell, some clients sometimes want their entire ad campaing to be shot on a terrible camera like the one you find in an iPhone 5 just because of the look they have.

It is indeed a different world from the times where absolute sharpness, perfect lighting etc were the only acceptable criterias.
 
The producer of this video says:
"Why professional photographers aren't obsessed with the latest camera gear - and why you shouldn't be either. In this video, I debunk the myth that you need expensive, cutting-edge equipment to take amazing photos.
He doesn't take into account Gear Lust & aspirational purchases where people buy in to the dream. He makes some common-sense points though, but also some that aren't always true. From his own (unnamed) survey it seems a good deal of pros are using mirrorless. This can be considered impressive given the relative newness of the technology, but his interpretation is that a good chunk are using DSLRs. I guess a good chunk still are, but it's not the majority, which kind of goes against the point he is trying to make. DSLR users are shrinking for valid, rational reasons, despite a lot of second-hand DSLRs being absolute bargains today.

If professionals are using CHEAP cameras as the title claims, it could be true, because DSLRs are cheaper now but it's because most of the market isn't buying them: they have moved on (as his own survey results show). He also ignores some of the benefits of mirrorless gear that were never seen or possible in DSLRs which benefit some photographers and goes some way to fuelling (rational) results-based Gear Lust. A fast frame rate could be considered needed for fast-moving kids and pets in order to capture the perfect moment for some photographers, which again goes against his conclusions. The more intelligent subject focusing too. CHEAP cameras might be a little misleading, because it's not only the camera but also the cost of those lenses and lots of related gear too. The video title could be considered click-bait by some.
 
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I am a commercial photographer. For decades. I have worked in many areas. Light saloon, portraits, weddings, events you name it. Moved I to digital early, in 1995. Also worked as a professional photo finisher for about a decade. Just saying so that’s my experience. I have also done a lot of photography just for fun. A hobby, landscape mostly.
Of course gear matters. Not always the newest but fit for purpose as many people have said on this thread. It needs to work for what you do and be profitable. Some areas stop working. As an example I have a friend who used to shoot rugby in one of our smaller cities. At current t rates and cost of top new lenses and bodies he would have to shoot about 500 rugby matches to make a profit, so he isn’t interested in that anymore. And honestly none is interested in the photos. Games available on HD tv all the time, magazines gone and newspapers almost gone. So he has moved on.
If there is a difference between pro and amateur regarding equipment it’s that amateurs don’t have to do the calculations my friend did with rugby matches.
Another difference is pros tend to invest more in systems. A range of bags, lots of tripods, cables all with Velcro straps to keep them under control, various boxes and trolleys to move gear around. A styling box with blocks and li t rollers and cleaning material. That type of thing. Sure amateurs do this too hut by my observations not to the same level.
Pros tend to be more practiced, smoother, faster. Not necessarily more skilled. You get extremely accomplished amateurs.
you are so correct. ive been a shooting pro for 17 years and own a fully kitted studio, car park area change room seating area, multiple sets of everything just for backup, money is good when actually shooting , but last year the fugures dropped of by 50% 😌and everyone wants to make commisions off MY images and then pay me less. i use quality cameras and cheap lighting gear 😁
 
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The objective of the professional is just to produce imagery that the client likes. The objective of the amateur is to produce shots they themselves like. Many (but not all) clients are unlikely to care about sharpness. But producing razor sharp photos is fun and important to the amateur.
The definition of what a "pro" is must have morphed quite a bit from my day as I can assure you sharpness was the default requirement, if it wasn't sharp it was in the trash can.
I see posted on this website so many pictures where the focus point is off or the sharpness is off that I can't imagine how anyone would quantify amateurs as being the group who fixates on sharpness. But hey I'm old now and it's a different world.
Exactly. Standards have moved.

Now in commercial photography, especially in fashion, you see more and more companies and clients asking for a picture that's blurry (with motion, not misfocus), or badly lit.

Hell, some clients sometimes want their entire ad campaing to be shot on a terrible camera like the one you find in an iPhone 5 just because of the look they have.

It is indeed a different world from the times where absolute sharpness, perfect lighting etc were the only acceptable criterias.
I understand where your thinking comes from but believe it or not what you're referring to isn't really new, but goes back almost 3 decades.

Nick Knight used early iphones and embraced pixelation as a creative tool. Juergen Teller was known for using point and shoots and disposables in the 2000s. Wolfgang Tillmans used disposable cameras back into the 1990s for his fashion work. Ryan McGinley & Terry Richardson were both well known for their work using cheap cameras, like Yashica T4s, and point and shoots producing work for a well-known Levis campaign.

I understand maybe not knowing how long this has been going on, as some Gen-z's think bellbottoms are new. 😆

Along your lines of thinking I think there are things that have changed "professional" photography much more rather than "sharpness".

I can think of at least 4 main influences that have shaped the changes, who has been attracted and what the 'standards' are now :
  • The internet and social media have significantly expanded the uses and visibility of photography, and it's monkey see- monkey do based on what new people to photography see as their examples
  • Cell phone cameras have democratized image-making, allowing virtually anyone to create quality photos.
  • Software tools have brought advanced editing and creative capabilities to anyone willing to learn, and the education is free through youtube.
  • Meanwhile, the rise of the gig economy has reshaped younger generations’ approach to work. Many are desperately seeking to moveg away from the college>work career path and accepting doing multiple things to earn money so the requirements of compensation being low are acceptable as the money adds up from many sources. Selling their jewelry on Etsy, while dog walking on Rover, while delivering food on Uber eats, while offering photography services...
If you are familiar with airbnb, they have been offering "experiences" for awhile, giving locals the chance to put together tours or cooking classes using the airbnb platform to market and get paid.

You often see multiple photography offerings, not learning experiences or workshops but taking pictures of you in the foreign city, typically from $80-$150, not big money but evidence of my 4 points above. When you look at the samples they are basically along the lines of creativity or quality of selfies with the removal of the subject having to hold the camera.

Just my ramblings
 
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Regarding
". . . the myth that you need expensive, cutting-edge equipment to take amazing photos."

I've never heard or read of any such myth.

In my opinion the producer of that video has constructed a false premise just so that he/she can shoot it down.

jj
But did he create a false premise, regrdless of intent?

Myths are abstract. So we are free to accept or reject their existence.

Recntly, in another thred here on DPR there was a discussion of gear necessary to take high quality (without precisely defining that term) images. One poster, who listed his obviously expensive and newer gear, opined that a photographer who did not use equipment of this standard, was not a 'proper' (his term) photographer. Whatever that is, as he did not define it. But since he laid out the standard (via equipment chosen at high cost) anyone using lesser gear, by his obviously affluent standard, was/is a less than 'proper' photographer.

There was much disagreement with this assertion, along with ample photographic proof (in my opinion) effectively rebutting and impeaching his thesis. To no avail, he had no tolerance for compromise of his standard.

In my admittedly limited travels on DPR I seldom run across this level of intransigent condescension to the point of arrogance, but here it was.

In so doing he was perpetuating just this sort of myth.

I am still cast adrift in a sea of ignorance not knowing what a 'proper' photographer is. Seems like countless others have been left similarly unenlightened.
 
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Is DP Review just a big marketing scheme to get non-pros to argue about gear and spend tons of cash on gear they do not need?
Yes.

While I wouldn't say that professionals use cheap gear, they likely don't use the latest (unless the latest gives them an advantage).
 

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