Well, after trying to find it for a few hours, I've read in the manual (WOW)!

No, it's not in the manual. It's an A4 letter they included with the rest of the documentation that came with the camera. They went to the expense of putting that extra piece of paper in the package just to spook you away from ... grasp.... incompatible accessories.

Maybe they didn't put that in the Digital Rebel edition. I know the 300D has it in every package.
hmm I have not read this yet. is it in the manual? I only got the
300D with kit lens and only bought the Sigma APO. does this
warning come with the lens only or does it come with the kit?
 
First, we'd lose Daniella and her pictures in this forum.
Then, we'd lose this fascinating french accent?

No way!!!!!

I will be more than glad to pitch in to get Daniella her firmware hack from a serious pirate that will hack the cripples out of the firmware.

But I don't want my money taking her pictures away from us into the 10D forum, nor do I want her to take English lessons and lose this fantastic accent.
then you wil all get rid of me for good...isn't that worth it? :)

I have a paypal account...just let me know when you're ready.
Lets all get a Daniella fund together so she can get a 10D. I
really don't mind her "facts" and indispensable techical wisdom in
small doses each day, but if she misspells meetering [sic] one more
time...!
oh yeah...maybe addd a fiew more $$$ buk for English lessons? :)
 
But all the people talking about economics raise very valid points.
And lead me to ask you, what is the point of all the complaining
and posting? Do you think it will make a difference?
I have to hope so yes. other wise there goes the hope...there goes the future and nothing wil ever changes. If everybody says..."ok what's the use of complaining, nothing will change, I cannot do anything..blah blah blah." then yes nothing will ever change.

It may never change still..but hey, at least it will not be MY fault.

Even
complaining to Canon, even if all the members of this forum hit
them with a mass-mailing complaint campaign and jumped up and down
outside Canon USA headquarters, it wouldn't matter. You know why?
Because we all bought 300D's already!
yes that is what they are counting people will think...but what about law sue for bad advertizing? Canon is advertizing this camera as a consumer sort of entry-level easy to use camera. they are very vague on the AI focus as well and their publicity is kind of misleading.

And because they're selling
so fast that stores everywhere can't keep the damn things on the
shelves!
yes, if only there will be some compititors..competitions is always good for the consumers.

And because sales of EF lenses have probably doubled at
the same time! Canon just don't care, and while that sucks for me
and you, if I was running the show I wouldn't care either. I'd be
too busy checking out the value of my stock options.
yes but my complaining is not only aimed at Canon..it is actualy not really aimed at Canon because i have very little hope that they woudl pay attention to it.

My complaining is aimed at any new potential buyer who wants to know the full story..the good and the bad..the pretty and the ugly.
Until Nikon, Olympus, Minolta or someone else comes out with a DSLR
that can match Canon in the price point, we're stuck.
actualy no, we're not. thanks to all these complains, many people have come out here and find some work around. It is not ideal..sometimes not possible but at least we're getting somewhere.

I am very greatful for Tom? who came out with the mono jack hack..and to the person who found the FEC remote change. now if you never bring the problems..you never find solutions.

When that
finally happens though (a year maybe?), THEN we will start to see
some competition. Until then I just don't see anything that could
possibly make Canon give a hoot. Life sucks.

Tell you what. If everyone gets together and chips in say $50 each,
we could probably come up with a pretty hefty bribe. Track down one
of the Canon firmware developers and get him to write us a new
version.
hehe..now that's an idea...now do you think they have such bling loyalty to Canon and many of the Canon soldiers here?
--
I am not an English native speaker!
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=26918
 
it's printed in 14 languages and in color...

"Canon shall not be liable for any damage to this product caused by malfounction of non-geniune Canon accessories."

We received a letter yesterday and something scary was written some warning about they will contact us to repair cost if they find that we used the camera in a wrong way.
Maybe they didn't put that in the Digital Rebel edition. I know the
300D has it in every package.
hmm I have not read this yet. is it in the manual? I only got the
300D with kit lens and only bought the Sigma APO. does this
warning come with the lens only or does it come with the kit?
--
I am not an English native speaker!
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=26918
 
I have been following your posts and can only tell you don't stop. You're right! But beware that Canon will have it more easy to propose an upgrade with just all the hidden controls available in the menus in 6-12 months... Are you really not native speaking English. You're anger seems so much French like me... J'aime cette colere...
But all the people talking about economics raise very valid points.
And lead me to ask you, what is the point of all the complaining
and posting? Do you think it will make a difference?
I have to hope so yes. other wise there goes the hope...there goes
the future and nothing wil ever changes. If everybody says..."ok
what's the use of complaining, nothing will change, I cannot do
anything..blah blah blah." then yes nothing will ever change.

It may never change still..but hey, at least it will not be MY fault.

Even
complaining to Canon, even if all the members of this forum hit
them with a mass-mailing complaint campaign and jumped up and down
outside Canon USA headquarters, it wouldn't matter. You know why?
Because we all bought 300D's already!
yes that is what they are counting people will think...but what
about law sue for bad advertizing? Canon is advertizing this
camera as a consumer sort of entry-level easy to use camera. they
are very vague on the AI focus as well and their publicity is kind
of misleading.

And because they're selling
so fast that stores everywhere can't keep the damn things on the
shelves!
yes, if only there will be some compititors..competitions is always
good for the consumers.

And because sales of EF lenses have probably doubled at
the same time! Canon just don't care, and while that sucks for me
and you, if I was running the show I wouldn't care either. I'd be
too busy checking out the value of my stock options.
yes but my complaining is not only aimed at Canon..it is actualy
not really aimed at Canon because i have very little hope that they
woudl pay attention to it.

My complaining is aimed at any new potential buyer who wants to
know the full story..the good and the bad..the pretty and the ugly.
Until Nikon, Olympus, Minolta or someone else comes out with a DSLR
that can match Canon in the price point, we're stuck.
actualy no, we're not. thanks to all these complains, many people
have come out here and find some work around. It is not
ideal..sometimes not possible but at least we're getting somewhere.

I am very greatful for Tom? who came out with the mono jack
hack..and to the person who found the FEC remote change. now if
you never bring the problems..you never find solutions.

When that
finally happens though (a year maybe?), THEN we will start to see
some competition. Until then I just don't see anything that could
possibly make Canon give a hoot. Life sucks.

Tell you what. If everyone gets together and chips in say $50 each,
we could probably come up with a pretty hefty bribe. Track down one
of the Canon firmware developers and get him to write us a new
version.
hehe..now that's an idea...now do you think they have such bling
loyalty to Canon and many of the Canon soldiers here?
--
I am not an English native speaker!
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=26918
--
SFJP
http://www.pbase.com/sfjp
 
It was a rather poor attempt at humor.
No way!!!!!

I will be more than glad to pitch in to get Daniella her firmware
hack from a serious pirate that will hack the cripples out of the
firmware.

But I don't want my money taking her pictures away from us into the
10D forum, nor do I want her to take English lessons and lose this
fantastic accent.
then you wil all get rid of me for good...isn't that worth it? :)

I have a paypal account...just let me know when you're ready.
Lets all get a Daniella fund together so she can get a 10D. I
really don't mind her "facts" and indispensable techical wisdom in
small doses each day, but if she misspells meetering [sic] one more
time...!
oh yeah...maybe addd a fiew more $$$ buk for English lessons? :)
 
Can you imagine what will happen when they come to this forum and they realize you have been using a Sigma APO?

At the very least, you will be stoned on the public square.

And to think you were afraid of visiting an islamic country the other day. LOL. Now you will see that there are worse sorts of fundamentalism in the US. ROFL.
"Canon shall not be liable for any damage to this product caused by
malfounction of non-geniune Canon accessories."

We received a letter yesterday and something scary was written some
warning about they will contact us to repair cost if they find that
we used the camera in a wrong way.
Maybe they didn't put that in the Digital Rebel edition. I know the
300D has it in every package.
hmm I have not read this yet. is it in the manual? I only got the
300D with kit lens and only bought the Sigma APO. does this
warning come with the lens only or does it come with the kit?
--
I am not an English native speaker!
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=26918
 
I know that , but some things you just don't joke with, like losing great talent to the 10D forum, and away from ours.

Besides, this forum would be boring without these discussions, and no one livens them up better than Daniella.

Keep going, Daniella. We'll hack their firmware to death, and you'll show them what great pictures you can still take with a properly hacked 300D.
It was a rather poor attempt at humor.
 
No, I don't. But I expect that the Escort has a steering wheel, engine and all the other BASIC functions of a vehicle... get my drift?
that we cannot change Metering on our SLRS!

in my mind that makes this cam a very amaturish camera
even on my Olympus C2100 i could change metering!

well on 300D we have 3 possitions for metering...
and they are all change automatically based on the mode we
are in!

wow, what a bummer... not a pro camera at all!

so sad!
--
http://www.pbase.com/tdkd13
 
It's funny how people expect to get the features of a 1Ds for less $ than the 10D. So much whining about how stuff is 'crippled'.. So, why don't they just go buy the camera with the features that they want instead of whining. Sheesh! It is really sad to see Daniella act like this.

At one point I actually respected her as a talented artist. Now, I think she has turned into the spoiled 8 year old kid at christmas that gets a bunch of presents and says 'Is that all?!' after opening them all...

--
Todd Putman
http://www.dataserv.net/~toddp/gallery
 
If you look at the threads, Daniella is not the only person vocalising against some of the engineering choices, so why do you have to pick on her especially?

My only possible explanation is that she has the talent behind her to give her the authority other so-called "whiners" don't have, and so she gets listened to, which makes her a "priority target".

And don't say that it's because she never lets go. You people don't either. She is not exactly speaking to herself. It takes two to keep an argument, and she even gets called into threads that she wasn't participating in with subjects like "For Daniella". And you surprise yourself that she replies?...

I stand somewhere in the middle because I love the 300D, and I don't feel limited by it, but I know that I don't have the talent to reach the camera's limits, and I am humble enough to admit other people do. I rarely even go through the trouble of recomposing, so I can't fall prey of the AI servo kicking in. But shouldn't I understand the reasons of people who go through the trouble of recomposing and come across these glitches before I do?

One other thing that I would like to hear less is the argument that I have to put up with flaws because I bought a cheaper camera, as if I was some cheap Scrooge trying to get everything for nothing. I don't know about your finances, but for me 1200 euros was quite a lot of money and I didn't expect to hear that if I'm not satisfied I shouldn't have picked the "cheap" camera. Geez. For 1200 euros at least give us the right to vent if something is not right. It is not exactly pocket money and I don't want anyone (Canon or otherwise) to say I have to accept all the compromises for not wanting to spend more.

My final remark is that I am happy for you that you love the camera and you don't have any gripes, which is fine... I don't think of you anymore or any less as a photographer because of it. But I feel puzzled that you, on the other hand, would think less of someone as a photographer because she doesn't agree with you. Please do us the courtesy of at least separating the person from her work.
It's funny how people expect to get the features of a 1Ds for less
$ than the 10D. So much whining about how stuff is 'crippled'..
So, why don't they just go buy the camera with the features that
they want instead of whining. Sheesh! It is really sad to see
Daniella act like this.

At one point I actually respected her as a talented artist. Now, I
think she has turned into the spoiled 8 year old kid at christmas
that gets a bunch of presents and says 'Is that all?!' after
opening them all...

--
Todd Putman
http://www.dataserv.net/~toddp/gallery
 
On the subject:

It's strange but true .. this is the most difficult to master camera I have ever owned. That's why I reverted to manual metering. Basically the same method I used 30 years ago with my Zenith. It may very well be that by nature I am not compatible with AI ( and proud of it .. ). Than again, AI was supposed to make life easier. And for those who keep telling people to learn how to take pictures .. if I can measure manually and beat the camera .. who has to learn??

About the 10D: I know someone who ownes the 10D including grip and nice lens. He is actually a p&s guy, with little knowledge of photography. So he uses the 10D as a p&s .. guess what: his results are better than the 300D in p&s.
Off subject:

It is very interesting to read the different responses. I classify 2 groups, the consumer, beeing thankfull for everything consumable, and the costumer, demanding value for money. I wonder if there is also a geographic/cultural relation. Am I right asuming the consumer is mostly american and the costumer is more european ..? Someone could get a degree out of this forum ....
Hi D.
I admire your stamina here .. doubt if it will have any result
though ..
It will not have any results on the people that do not accept my
opinion..some other people on the edge of making the same decision
as me might consider the 10D instead if they hear the real story.
Basically: if the green square and all other P' s were removed
including the a-dep and release lock when not in focus, but
metering/servo/fec control were added it would be a perfect camera.
my yes it would be.
It wouldn't be a point and shoot anymore, but hey: it isn't anyway.
it's far from a point and shoot..you actualy need more tweaking and
by pass and work around with that camera then with a pro camera in
wich you can control these pricesely and not to worry about that
many things.
In the mean time I recommend the purchase of something called an
exposure meter. Mine's a Gossen Sixtomat, that will evaluate
contrast and works great togheter with the M-option.
There is a flaw in this .. why would I want to buy a $200 meter to
get a $1000 camera to expose correctly? I must have missed
something..... or am I getting old and like my dad, complaining: '
in my time things actually worked' .
yes, I missed that something too..you are not alone.
 
Hi Daniella.

I wonder how many of these posters have the flair for producing such wonderful images as you do.
I wonder how many of your critics even own a Drebel.

You have discovered the 11th commandment : "Thou shalt not criticise the Drebel".

It is a sad fact of life too, that being correct doesn't make you many friends. But you would not want many friends from this forum would you.
Your work is an inspiration.
And as for cameras, keep on telling it like it is.

ken from the UK
 
Sorry, sloppy colloquialism. For "I see where you're coming from" read "I understand what you're saying."
The main factor keeping our markets from being truly free markets
is the high cost of entrance, because one of the premises of free
markets is that the cost of entering or leaving a market is zero.
In a competitive field such as digital photography, the costs of
entering the market are prohibitive. Can you imagine how much it
would cost to develop this camera from scratch and then marketing
if you didn't have the technology background and the brand
name-recognition?
I see where you're coming from, but in this case there are other
companies who do have the technology background and the brand
recognition. They're just a bit behind...
 
Ken:

Daniella takes nice photographs, that is for sure. There are many, many excellent photographers using the Drebel who are NOT complaining. Daniella is complaining about the marketing strategy of Product Differentiation. This has been around since products were first sold. Not only that, she is complaining over, and over, and over, and over, and over again. Her complaints are more like rants against Canon. Many of us have spent lots of time discussing it with her.

Her major issue is that the camera is "crippled." Well, she paid $900, what does she expect? Here is the big point - If you use Microsoft XP Home editiion, is it "crippled" compared to XP Professional? She can't come to grips with the reality of product line differentiation.

It is not about criticising the DR.

Paul
Hi Daniella.
I wonder how many of these posters have the flair for producing
such wonderful images as you do.
I wonder how many of your critics even own a Drebel.
You have discovered the 11th commandment : "Thou shalt not
criticise the Drebel".
It is a sad fact of life too, that being correct doesn't make you
many friends. But you would not want many friends from this forum
would you.
Your work is an inspiration.
And as for cameras, keep on telling it like it is.

ken from the UK
--
Paul
------------------------------------------------
Pbase supporter
Photographs at: http://www.pbase.com/pbleic/photos
Digital Rebel, Tamron 29-75 f/2.8, 17-55
Olympus E-10,TCON-14B, WCON, FL 40
--------------------------------------------------
Copyright 2003 All rights reserved.
 
Sorry. I thought you meant something totally different. I didn't know that colloquialism. My English definitely needs some improvement. But I guess that's the kind of language knowledge you only get from immersion in the language.
The main factor keeping our markets from being truly free markets
is the high cost of entrance, because one of the premises of free
markets is that the cost of entering or leaving a market is zero.
In a competitive field such as digital photography, the costs of
entering the market are prohibitive. Can you imagine how much it
would cost to develop this camera from scratch and then marketing
if you didn't have the technology background and the brand
name-recognition?
I see where you're coming from, but in this case there are other
companies who do have the technology background and the brand
recognition. They're just a bit behind...
 
It 'evaluates' the input from the active focusing point then. It is still evaluative, but "35 zone" might be discussed though.

What are the values when you switch to partial metering?..

I am trying to see the relation between three metering system.. If this limitation (or bug as you called) is what we have and we understood that canon has done this intentionally and there will be no firmware etc to "fix" it, then we have to make use of it. Or you should look for other choices.
 
Actually yours is a very good example of what I was telling you about yesterday.

Do you think Microsoft would get away with crippling XP Home if they didn't hold the monopoly on Windows OS?

Do you see any Linux distribution being deliberately crippled? Of course not, because everyone would buy from the competition, since Linux is a truly free market (and I am not even a Linux advocate; I use Windows).

That's what I mean with that kind of product-differentiation-through-deliberate-crippling being the sign of an imperfect market, and not a true free market. If this was a free market, someone would sell the 300D without the cripple.
Daniella takes nice photographs, that is for sure. There are many,
many excellent photographers using the Drebel who are NOT
complaining. Daniella is complaining about the marketing strategy
of Product Differentiation. This has been around since products
were first sold. Not only that, she is complaining over, and over,
and over, and over, and over again. Her complaints are more like
rants against Canon. Many of us have spent lots of time discussing
it with her.

Her major issue is that the camera is "crippled." Well, she paid
$900, what does she expect? Here is the big point - If you use
Microsoft XP Home editiion, is it "crippled" compared to XP
Professional? She can't come to grips with the reality of product
line differentiation.

It is not about criticising the DR.

Paul
Hi Daniella.
I wonder how many of these posters have the flair for producing
such wonderful images as you do.
I wonder how many of your critics even own a Drebel.
You have discovered the 11th commandment : "Thou shalt not
criticise the Drebel".
It is a sad fact of life too, that being correct doesn't make you
many friends. But you would not want many friends from this forum
would you.
Your work is an inspiration.
And as for cameras, keep on telling it like it is.

ken from the UK
--
Paul
------------------------------------------------
Pbase supporter
Photographs at: http://www.pbase.com/pbleic/photos
Digital Rebel, Tamron 29-75 f/2.8, 17-55
Olympus E-10,TCON-14B, WCON, FL 40
--------------------------------------------------
Copyright 2003 All rights reserved.
 
Look at what Red Hat and all the commercial vendors are doing with Linux. Yes, they are "crippling" them to create several different offerings. For example, Red Hat now offers three different price points with Enterprise, Small Server, and Workstation versions.

No company can grow to any scale without differentiating their products through features and support. Period.

Paul
Do you think Microsoft would get away with crippling XP Home if
they didn't hold the monopoly on Windows OS?

Do you see any Linux distribution being deliberately crippled? Of
course not, because everyone would buy from the competition, since
Linux is a truly free market (and I am not even a Linux advocate; I
use Windows).

That's what I mean with that kind of
product-differentiation-through-deliberate-crippling being the sign
of an imperfect market, and not a true free market. If this was a
free market, someone would sell the 300D without the cripple.
Daniella takes nice photographs, that is for sure. There are many,
many excellent photographers using the Drebel who are NOT
complaining. Daniella is complaining about the marketing strategy
of Product Differentiation. This has been around since products
were first sold. Not only that, she is complaining over, and over,
and over, and over, and over again. Her complaints are more like
rants against Canon. Many of us have spent lots of time discussing
it with her.

Her major issue is that the camera is "crippled." Well, she paid
$900, what does she expect? Here is the big point - If you use
Microsoft XP Home editiion, is it "crippled" compared to XP
Professional? She can't come to grips with the reality of product
line differentiation.

It is not about criticising the DR.

Paul
Hi Daniella.
I wonder how many of these posters have the flair for producing
such wonderful images as you do.
I wonder how many of your critics even own a Drebel.
You have discovered the 11th commandment : "Thou shalt not
criticise the Drebel".
It is a sad fact of life too, that being correct doesn't make you
many friends. But you would not want many friends from this forum
would you.
Your work is an inspiration.
And as for cameras, keep on telling it like it is.

ken from the UK
--
Paul
------------------------------------------------
Pbase supporter
Photographs at: http://www.pbase.com/pbleic/photos
Digital Rebel, Tamron 29-75 f/2.8, 17-55
Olympus E-10,TCON-14B, WCON, FL 40
--------------------------------------------------
Copyright 2003 All rights reserved.
--
Paul
------------------------------------------------
Pbase supporter
Photographs at: http://www.pbase.com/pbleic/photos
Digital Rebel, Tamron 29-75 f/2.8, 17-55
Olympus E-10,TCON-14B, WCON, FL 40
--------------------------------------------------
Copyright 2003 All rights reserved.
 
This is a free market, you are free not to buy it. Then that company will realize that crippled products are not good. According to the rumors, 300d is selling huge amounts, then I think 300d is not a good example.

If you know all the limitations before buying it, that means you accept those limitations. But if you buy a product, then complain about it and expect the manufacturer to modify, this is nothing to do with free market. Don't buy it if you don't like it. Canon don't hold the monopoly on dslr market, so you can wait and buy some non-crippled versions of other companies or canon itself. Those who made the trade off between 'waiting for a better one' and 'taking more pictures instead of waiting' already had their 300ds.
Do you think Microsoft would get away with crippling XP Home if
they didn't hold the monopoly on Windows OS?

Do you see any Linux distribution being deliberately crippled? Of
course not, because everyone would buy from the competition, since
Linux is a truly free market (and I am not even a Linux advocate; I
use Windows).

That's what I mean with that kind of
product-differentiation-through-deliberate-crippling being the sign
of an imperfect market, and not a true free market. If this was a
free market, someone would sell the 300D without the cripple.
Daniella takes nice photographs, that is for sure. There are many,
many excellent photographers using the Drebel who are NOT
complaining. Daniella is complaining about the marketing strategy
of Product Differentiation. This has been around since products
were first sold. Not only that, she is complaining over, and over,
and over, and over, and over again. Her complaints are more like
rants against Canon. Many of us have spent lots of time discussing
it with her.

Her major issue is that the camera is "crippled." Well, she paid
$900, what does she expect? Here is the big point - If you use
Microsoft XP Home editiion, is it "crippled" compared to XP
Professional? She can't come to grips with the reality of product
line differentiation.

It is not about criticising the DR.

Paul
Hi Daniella.
I wonder how many of these posters have the flair for producing
such wonderful images as you do.
I wonder how many of your critics even own a Drebel.
You have discovered the 11th commandment : "Thou shalt not
criticise the Drebel".
It is a sad fact of life too, that being correct doesn't make you
many friends. But you would not want many friends from this forum
would you.
Your work is an inspiration.
And as for cameras, keep on telling it like it is.

ken from the UK
--
Paul
------------------------------------------------
Pbase supporter
Photographs at: http://www.pbase.com/pbleic/photos
Digital Rebel, Tamron 29-75 f/2.8, 17-55
Olympus E-10,TCON-14B, WCON, FL 40
--------------------------------------------------
Copyright 2003 All rights reserved.
 

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