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Fed up with Thunderbird: what email client as a substitute?

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Saint 112

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Hi all

After I endured all its shortcomings for years one too many came up: Thunderbird still retrieves my mails from my provider but cannot send them anymore:

36091a29bab840dea076790ebfe65eab.jpg

It happened suddenly one day. My provider doesn't know what this code is.

Some time ago Thunderbird became unable to send to and retrieve from my gmail account.

Enough is enough.

I need a replacement but my specification #1 is the ability to retrieve my mail archives, contacts, etc.

I tried Apple Mail: it retrieves the Sent box but not the other boxes and in particular the Inbox. As a rule of thumb I avoid Apple's apps: I don't like to be treated as a dummy.

I looked in the Wikipedia page Comparison of email clients but there are very few specs.

I looked also in the MacWorld article Best email app for Macs. Their best pick is Spark. It's free, good point. It seems to have many features but they don't say if I can retrieve my existing mail archives.

Do you have an advice?

TIA

Cheers.

Nick
 
Check your server settings. Make sure you’re connecting through a secure connection like STARTTLS. Nothing wrong with Thunderbird, assuming you keep it up to date?
 
Haven't used Thunderbird in years so can't offer any viable suggestions.

I do use Mac Mail and recommend you revisit it ... might meet your needs and then some.
For archiving mail I created an Archive folder in the section "On My Mac" (left side bar near the bottom). In the Archive folder I created subfolders for each year dating back to 2000. At the end of each year I move all email that I wish to keep to the appropriate folder in the Archive folder. At this point none of the email is on the email provider's server - it's stored only on my Mac.
I also use smart folders to allow me to quickly access current emails by whatever definition I assign to the smart folder.
I have multiple email accounts including icloud mail, gmail, yahoo mail plus mail accounts from my personal domains. Mac Mail handles all of this without issue. I can search/retrieve any email current or archived in seconds.
The setup to do all this is not difficult but can be confusing the first time. Bottom line - it works well.
FWIW, I used to be an Outlook power user - Mac Mail is way simpler & easier to use plus meets all my needs quite nicely.
 
Htbaa said:
Check your server settings. Make sure you’re connecting through a secure connection like STARTTLS. Nothing wrong with Thunderbird, assuming you keep it up to date?
Click to expand...
Thanks for your quick response.

I am connected to the web via a router supplied by my provider. It's connected to my Mac via Ethernet. It includes a switch that's connected to another Mac and a printer. I changed no setting before Thunderbird started failing.

I am going to contact the Mozilla's support but I am fed up with TB's many flaws.

Nick
 
Saint 112 said:
I am going to contact the Mozilla's support but I am fed up with TB's many flaws.

Nick
Click to expand...
My first guess would be that the support for free software will be a disappointment.
 
JRET said:
Mac Mail handles all of this without issue. I can search/retrieve any email current or archived in seconds.
Click to expand...
But my issue is to import my mail archives in the new mail client.

Nick
 
Saint 112 said:
Htbaa said:
Check your server settings. Make sure you’re connecting through a secure connection like STARTTLS. Nothing wrong with Thunderbird, assuming you keep it up to date?
Click to expand...
Thanks for your quick response.

I am connected to the web via a router supplied by my provider. It's connected to my Mac via Ethernet. It includes a switch that's connected to another Mac and a printer. I changed no setting before Thunderbird started failing.

I am going to contact the Mozilla's support but I am fed up with TB's many flaws.

Nick
Click to expand...
It’s probably due to updates on the side of your mail provider causing outdated encryption methods to no longer being supported, or maybe even the lack of encryption not being supported. I highly doubt it’s an issue with Thunderbird. Review your settings and make sure Thunderbird is up to date.
 
OP wrote:
"Their best pick is Spark. It's free, good point. It seems to have many features but they don't say if I can retrieve my existing mail archives."

Where ARE your "existing mail archives"?

What version of the OS are you using?

I've tried several different email clients through the years, and keep coming back to Apple's Mail.app. It just works better than the rest of them.

Have you tried using Mail.app to import your old archives?
 
JPAlbert said:
OP wrote:
"Their best pick is Spark. It's free, good point. It seems to have many features but they don't say if I can retrieve my existing mail archives."

Where ARE your "existing mail archives"?
Click to expand...
In the Thunderbird folder, in the Library folder.

As opposed to what I said by mistake Mail imported part of the Sent box (the last two days) and nothing else.
JPAlbert said:
What version of the OS are you using?
Click to expand...
MacOS 13.6.1 Ventura.
JPAlbert said:
I've tried several different email clients through the years, and keep coming back to Apple's Mail.app. It just works better than the rest of them.

Have you tried using Mail.app to import your old archives?
Click to expand...
When importing boxes, Mail's first question is whether it is Apple Mail or Files in mbox format. I have no mbox format files.

So far Apple Mail failed the first test.

Moreover it has a typically Apple environment: you have a row of icons you wonder what they are about.

I tried sending a mail to myself. Mail "sent" it but it never reached me.

Nick
 
Last edited:
Htbaa was on the right track, I suspect. Maybe what happened is that your service provider tightened security and you're not sending mail with strong enough encryption.

You might be able to fix this yourself. Thunderbird has an SMTP settings area, where you can set SSL/TLS or possibly TLS 1.3

31d7ed146dae4c65b8711e849f59a623.jpg
 
Last edited:
My solution (for the last +20yrs)? DO NOT USE AN EMAIL CLIENT. Period. :)

Given that you'll need to be 'online' to send/get email, I ditched the 'clients' for "webmail".

All three of the 'big' free folks offer it: Hotmail, Yahoo & Google.

All possibly infected attachments remain on THEIR servers and get scanned. Most if not ALL of the providers allow you to setup 'rules' for moving incoming email around to different folders.

Honestly, I've never missed NOT having a email/calendar client on ANY of my systems. Best of all, my Mac's, iPhone & iPad's calendar's can 'sync' with anyone of the 'big three' that I mentioned.

For decades I've been able to "ISP Shop/Bounce" without changing my email settings or addresses.
 
CAcreeks said:
Htbaa was on the right track, I suspect. Maybe what happened is that your service provider tightened security and you're not sending mail with strong enough encryption.

You might be able to fix this yourself. Thunderbird has an SMTP settings area, where you can set SSL/TLS or possibly TLS 1.3
Click to expand...
It was initially set on None. I tried both STARTTLS and SSL/TLS to no avail.

How come my provider would have tightened the security setting without informing me.

I can send mail from MAIL without issue?
 
mbloof said:
My solution (for the last +20yrs)? DO NOT USE AN EMAIL CLIENT. Period. :)
Click to expand...
I have an account with Orange and gmail and their environment are the most simplistic possible. I had an email client since the 1990's and never had an issue so far.
Nick
 
Saint 112 said:
CAcreeks said:
Htbaa was on the right track, I suspect. Maybe what happened is that your service provider tightened security and you're not sending mail with strong enough encryption.

You might be able to fix this yourself. Thunderbird has an SMTP settings area, where you can set SSL/TLS or possibly TLS 1.3
Click to expand...
It was initially set on None. I tried both STARTTLS and SSL/TLS to no avail.
Click to expand...
The error message "StartTLS obligatoire" made me think StartTLS (at least) is required.

Do you have an old version of Thunderbird?
Saint 112 said:
How come my provider would have tightened the security setting without informing me.
Click to expand...
Happens frequently. For sign-in to HTTP non-S sites, I can't use the Firefox stored password.
Saint 112 said:
I can send mail from MAIL without issue?
Click to expand...
You mean the MacOS Mail program? I know nothing about it.
 
CAcreeks said:
Saint 112 said:
It was initially set on None. I tried both STARTTLS and SSL/TLS to no avail.
Click to expand...
The error message "StartTLS obligatoire" made me think StartTLS (at least) is required.
Click to expand...
Well… I put it on.
CAcreeks said:
Do you have an old version of Thunderbird?
Click to expand...
I had 115.3. I just upgraded to 115.10. No improvement.
CAcreeks said:
CAcreeks said:
How come my provider would have tightened the security setting without informing me.
Click to expand...
Happens frequently. For sign-in to HTTP non-S sites, I can't use the Firefox stored password.
CAcreeks said:
I can send mail from MAIL without issue?
Click to expand...
You mean the MacOS Mail program?
Click to expand...
Right.
 
Saint 112 said:
CAcreeks said:
Htbaa was on the right track, I suspect. Maybe what happened is that your service provider tightened security and you're not sending mail with strong enough encryption.

You might be able to fix this yourself. Thunderbird has an SMTP settings area, where you can set SSL/TLS or possibly TLS 1.3
Click to expand...
It was initially set on None. I tried both STARTTLS and SSL/TLS to no avail.

How come my provider would have tightened the security setting without informing me.
Click to expand...
This usually happens during periodic maintenance where they're updating the software packages of their operating systems. Unless they check out every package update in detail they probably don't know security has been tightened. It's also nearly impossible to know all this beforehand and it's usually very old and long obsolete methods that are being disallowed.
Saint 112 said:
I can send mail from MAIL without issue?
Click to expand...
 
Saint 112 said:
CAcreeks said:
Saint 112 said:
It was initially set on None. I tried both STARTTLS and SSL/TLS to no avail.
Click to expand...
The error message "StartTLS obligatoire" made me think StartTLS (at least) is required.
Click to expand...
Well… I put it on.
Click to expand...
What about port settings? 993 For IMAP and 995 for POP3.
Saint 112 said:
Saint 112 said:
Do you have an old version of Thunderbird?
Click to expand...
I had 115.3. I just upgraded to 115.10. No improvement.
Click to expand...
Version 115 was released in 2023 and the 115.10 update in April 2024. The current version of Thunderbird is 128.8.1. Though I doubt 115 won't support the required encryption methods.

Which version of MacOS are you on?
Saint 112 said:
Saint 112 said:
Saint 112 said:
How come my provider would have tightened the security setting without informing me.
Click to expand...
Happens frequently. For sign-in to HTTP non-S sites, I can't use the Firefox stored password.
Saint 112 said:
I can send mail from MAIL without issue?
Click to expand...
You mean the MacOS Mail program?
Click to expand...
Right.
Click to expand...
 
Saint 112 said:
CAcreeks said:
Saint 112 said:
It was initially set on None. I tried both STARTTLS and SSL/TLS to no avail.
Click to expand...
The error message "StartTLS obligatoire" made me think StartTLS (at least) is required.
Click to expand...
Well… I put it on.
Saint 112 said:
Do you have an old version of Thunderbird?
Click to expand...
I had 115.3. I just upgraded to 115.10. No improvement.
Saint 112 said:
Saint 112 said:
How come my provider would have tightened the security setting without informing me.
Click to expand...
Happens frequently. For sign-in to HTTP non-S sites, I can't use the Firefox stored password.
Saint 112 said:
I can send mail from MAIL without issue?
Click to expand...
You mean the MacOS Mail program?
Click to expand...
Right.
Click to expand...
Just FYI, the last time I had a problem with T-Bird sending email on one of my accounts, it was because I'd forgotten to set the SMTP authentication to OAuth2 on it. After restarting T-bird, all was OK.
 
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