Lumix GX7 Replacement

MJ_Photo38 said:

DrHook59 said:

I don't know if you have ever had the opportunity to hold a GX8, but doing so may surprise you.

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I do actually. I gifted one to my father last christmas and tested it for several weeks prior to that.

It's a great camera, however distinctly larger than my own E-M5 mark II, which itself is larger than a GX80/GX7.

The GX80 is barely any larger than the LX100 my mom has (and that my dad has been using as well). I wanted to go for a GX80, but my dad expressed his will to have a large OLED EVF, that's why we went with the GX8.

Size wise, it'a about as big as the X-T2 I had, but my dad doesn't mind, coming from a Nikon D7000.

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In use, the GX8 doesn’t feel big at all. It!s much more comfortable to hold. That extra 5mm of height meed to encase the much larger and functional EVF makes a difference In handling.

Look at the footprint, not the front silhouette.

MJ_Photo38 said:

MJ_Photo38 said:

It really is not such a step-up in size from the GX7, and it's incredibly ergonomic.

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It's more ergonomic, I woudn't say "incredibly". It's definitely better than the GX80 though.

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As a former GX7 user “incredibly” is pretty accurate to describe GX7-series cameras vs. GX8 handling. Remember it also has more Fn buttons. The slightly larger grip allows for the shutter button to be pushed forward of the top plate, so it’s in a better position, ergonomically.

The GX8 also replaces the GX7’s nasty little push button control wheel on the back with a pull blown control wheel. That’s a huge upgrade in terms of usability.

MJ_Photo38 said:

MJ_Photo38 said:

They're pretty easy to find in great condition, and at a fair price. One of them might be a great solution for you. And from what I have gleaned over the years they seem to be well built with few problems. Mine is nearly ten years old and is still going strong.

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Yep, they're well built cameras for sure. And weather sealed which is nice (but requires a weather sealed lens)

MJ_Photo38 said:

This was Panasonic's flagship camera when launched, and for good reason. The one major feature lacking in today's market would probably be 5+ stops of IBIS, but for you that seems not to be a problem. In all other respects the GX8 is a step up on the GX7, especially in MP, its 2 stops of IBIS, twin topside control dials and that magnificent EVF. Put the 12-32, or the 14 or the 20 on it and you have a solid unobtrusive camera that takes great photos and will fit into a really small bag when needed.

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I would still point out the fact that the GX8 is prone to shutter shock issues (which can only be solved by using electronic shutter at certain shutter speeds), that its IBIS is only 4 axis (instead of 5) and doesn't work in video.

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Shutter shock is an issue only with a few lightly constructed lenses like the 14-140mm! 12-32mm and other kit lenses. And only within a narrow range of shutter speeds, roughly 1/80 to 1/320. Otherwise, it’s a completely overblown issue. An internet meme run amok.

Mark P Thornton said:

> has 5 stops IBIS

I don't think the GX9 IBIS is that good on its own. Rather better when used with a Dual IS lens.

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Agree — the GX85/GX9 is definitely not 5-stop IBIS all on its own unless you are half mannequin and thus possess the world's steadiest hands.

IMO more along the lines of 2-3.5, depending on your coffee intake and whether you skipped your yoga and meditation that morning or not, plus maybe another half a stop to one stop with dual-IS lenses depending on the exact focal length..

Don't get me wrong: It is still definitely in the "very helpful and very nice to have" range!

Nor is the GX9/GX85 alone in having a bit of misleading stabilization figures (IMO, YMMV, don't sue me). When making comparisons to, say, and EM10IV IBIS, you're not really getting the whole story if you're just using the OEM websites / stat sheets / headline numbers.

jeffharris said:

MJ_Photo38 said:

DrHook59 said:

I don't know if you have ever had the opportunity to hold a GX8, but doing so may surprise you.

Click to expand...

I do actually. I gifted one to my father last christmas and tested it for several weeks prior to that.

It's a great camera, however distinctly larger than my own E-M5 mark II, which itself is larger than a GX80/GX7.

The GX80 is barely any larger than the LX100 my mom has (and that my dad has been using as well). I wanted to go for a GX80, but my dad expressed his will to have a large OLED EVF, that's why we went with the GX8.

Size wise, it'a about as big as the X-T2 I had, but my dad doesn't mind, coming from a Nikon D7000.

Click to expand...

In use, the GX8 doesn’t feel big at all. It!s much more comfortable to hold. That extra 5mm of height meed to encase the much larger and functional EVF makes a difference In handling.

Look at the footprint, not the front silhouette.

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Footprint is where most of the difference is, actually. I would argue the height and width are not especially different.







Thickness is another matter

jeffharris said:

jeffharris said:

jeffharris said:

It really is not such a step-up in size from the GX7, and it's incredibly ergonomic.

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It's more ergonomic, I woudn't say "incredibly". It's definitely better than the GX80 though.

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As a former GX7 user “incredibly” is pretty accurate to describe GX7-series cameras vs. GX8 handling. Remember it also has more Fn buttons. The slightly larger grip allows for the shutter button to be pushed forward of the top plate, so it’s in a better position, ergonomically.

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I didn't say it wasn't good. It is very good. If the only two cameras you've handled are the GX7 and GX8, yes the GX8 is "incredibly" better than the GX7.

But it's still lacking compared to other cameras I have used (which can be larger, I'll admit).

I didn't feel the GX8 was a substantial improvement in handling over let's say... my Fuji X-Pro2. My X-T2 felt better in the hand despite the smaller grip as well

And it definitely didn't feel better than my E-M5II.

Ergonomically my Z6 mops the floor with all of them thanks to its actual large grip.

jeffharris said:

jeffharris said:

jeffharris said:

They're pretty easy to find in great condition, and at a fair price. One of them might be a great solution for you. And from what I have gleaned over the years they seem to be well built with few problems. Mine is nearly ten years old and is still going strong.

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Yep, they're well built cameras for sure. And weather sealed which is nice (but requires a weather sealed lens)

jeffharris said:

This was Panasonic's flagship camera when launched, and for good reason. The one major feature lacking in today's market would probably be 5+ stops of IBIS, but for you that seems not to be a problem. In all other respects the GX8 is a step up on the GX7, especially in MP, its 2 stops of IBIS, twin topside control dials and that magnificent EVF. Put the 12-32, or the 14 or the 20 on it and you have a solid unobtrusive camera that takes great photos and will fit into a really small bag when needed.

Click to expand...

I would still point out the fact that the GX8 is prone to shutter shock issues (which can only be solved by using electronic shutter at certain shutter speeds), that its IBIS is only 4 axis (instead of 5) and doesn't work in video.

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Shutter shock is an issue only with a few lightly constructed lenses like the 14-140mm! 12-32mm and other kit lenses. And only within a narrow range of shutter speeds, roughly 1/80 to 1/320. Otherwise, it’s a completely overblown issue. An internet meme run amok.

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I've been able to experience it with my 25mm f/1.7, 14mm f/2.5 and 45mm f/1.8.

At 1/125th I was only able to get sharp shots with those lenses using the elctronic shutter. The range you mention is about 2 stops wide, that's not really a "narrow range" to me.

I agree that it's not super important, however still worth mentionning. Not that it matters much for my dad, he only shoots outside with his 12-60, I'm not sure he has ever used a speed slower than 1/500th

--
(G.A.S. and collectionnite will get my skin one day)

Jaime100 said:

mmartel said:

Keit ll said:

It all depends on whether IBIS is important to you, if it isn't then get the Panasonic G100D otherwise get a good condition used GX9.

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These are very good suggestions.

IMO you should also consider a G95/G97 if you like the way Panasonics work.

No, it isn't a rangefinder. Yes, it is significantly heavier than your GX7 and the GX9 (and GX85 and GX8) and much, much heavier than a G100. On the other hand, the grip is excellent, the EVF is much better than the G100, GX7, GX9, and GX85 cameras (it is very similar to the GX8), the ergonomics and controls are absolutely outstanding, its IBIS is better than the rest of these cameras, and it has weather sealing (the GX8 does as well, the others don't).

If you shell out for the newest G97 you also get USB-C charging which is nice. There are a few other convenience additions if video is of any interest that aren't present on the other models.

IMO anyone wanting a small camera body should also consider Olympus OM5 and its predecessor the EM5iii. If you're not averse to learning your way around a new camera menu system (and Olympus does have a learning curve), IMO these cameras are very, very compelling indeed. Weather sealed, excellent IBIS, phase detect autofocus, around 430g IIRC. Check them out. JUST DON'T ATTACH THEM TO A PD CAPTURE CLIP WITH A MASSIVE LENS AND WRESTLE ALLIGATORS OR MOUNT A HUGE LENS ON IT, PUT IT ON A TRIPOD, AND VIGOROUSLY SHAKE THE WHOLE ASSEMBLY AS IF SHAKING HUNDRED DOLLAR BILLS FROM A MONEY TREE. The tripod mount is a known weak spot on these cameras so go easy on them. Ok? Oh, and video quality is rather ho hum (to put it politely) compared to the Lumix models.

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I believe OM Systems fixed the tripod mount on the OM5..... the Em5iii still is weak though. Get the OM5

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This is the OM5 from DPR member skiggety:

The GX8 is about 85 grams heavier than the GX7., but only abot 30 grams heavier than the GX9. This may not seem like much difference, but it is enough to change the photographic experience. The GX8 is a comfortablle camera to use and I found the GX7 to be comfortable; but I never enjoyed using the GX9.

The GX9 has some technological advantages over the G100D. The EVF is not one of them. The G100D weighs about 350 grams, about the same as my old G1 and a hundred grams less tan the GX9.. The point I am making, however is that for me, a more pleasant camera to use results in more and better images..

F.

--
"We shoot the things that move us in ways that will move others." David duChemin
"What's the use of having a great depth of field if there is not an adequate depth of feeling?" - W. Eugene Smith

FrankS009 said:

The GX8 is about 85 grams heavier than the GX7., but only abot 30 grams heavier than the GX9. This may not seem like much difference, but it is enough to change the photographic experience. The GX8 is a comfortablle camera to use and I found the GX7 to be comfortable; but I never enjoyed using the GX9.

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The GX9 always seemed like a series of compromises mashed together. A wholly uninspired and uninspiring camera. A real downgrade from the GX7, which is a special camera.

FrankS009 said:

The GX9 has some technological advantages over the G100D. The EVF is not one of them. The G100D weighs about 350 grams, about the same as my old G1 and a hundred grams less tan the GX9.. The point I am making, however is that for me, a more pleasant camera to use results in more and better images..

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The last sentence is the bottom line for me, as well.

The feel of a tool makes a difference. If becomes an extension and sort of disappears in a sense. It’s the same with any good tool. Camera, hammer, whatever.

The GX8 has a great balance of size, weight and handling. A good grip, not too big or too small. The slightly taller body allows to get a better hold on it, unlike the smaller GX7. The Goldilocks camera. It’s just right.

FrankS009 said:

for me, a more pleasant camera to use results in more and better images..

F.

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My 5dmk2 although making richer files than my E-Pl7, my 5dmk2 hardly gets a lookin as my E-Pl7 is such a pleasure.

Having said this my Sigma SD9 wasn't a pleasant camera, however I took several of my favourite digital photographs with my SD9.

--
Photography after all is interplay of light alongside perspective.

GX7, GX8, GX85, & GX9 are now all museum pieces. Sure they are capable one way or the other, but why replace them with something similar with so much better cameras now available? I have a GX85 and GX9, but they will be retired to walking around at home for fun. The PEN F will now be a walking around at home camera after I return home from the trip I am on now.

Face it, Panasonic is moving a new direction. For travel I would get an OM-3. In fact it will be my new main camera.

Sorry Panasonic, you missed your chance.

Spend some money and get something that will be really good and you can grow into.

Promeneur said:

GX7, GX8, GX85, & GX9 are now all museum pieces. Sure they are capable one way or the other, but why replace them with something similar with so much better cameras now available? I have a GX85 and GX9, but they will be retired to walking around at home for fun. The PEN F will now be a walking around at home camera after I return home from the trip I am on now.

Face it, Panasonic is moving a new direction. For travel I would get an OM-3. In fact it will be my new main camera.

Sorry Panasonic, you missed your chance.

Spend some money and get something that will be really good and you can grow into.

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Where's the downvote when you need it?

jeffharris said:

Promeneur said:

GX7, GX8, GX85, & GX9 are now all museum pieces. Sure they are capable one way or the other, but why replace them with something similar with so much better cameras now available? I have a GX85 and GX9, but they will be retired to walking around at home for fun. The PEN F will now be a walking around at home camera after I return home from the trip I am on now.

Face it, Panasonic is moving a new direction. For travel I would get an OM-3. In fact it will be my new main camera.

Sorry Panasonic, you missed your chance.

Spend some money and get something that will be really good and you can grow into.

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Where's the downvote when you need it?

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Unfortunately, the truth can be painful, can't it. How many years are you willing to wait for a GX8 Mkii or GX10?

These cameras are fun, but long in the tooth.

Promeneur said:

jeffharris said:

Promeneur said:

GX7, GX8, GX85, & GX9 are now all museum pieces. Sure they are capable one way or the other, but why replace them with something similar with so much better cameras now available? I have a GX85 and GX9, but they will be retired to walking around at home for fun. The PEN F will now be a walking around at home camera after I return home from the trip I am on now.

Face it, Panasonic is moving a new direction. For travel I would get an OM-3. In fact it will be my new main camera.

Sorry Panasonic, you missed your chance.

Spend some money and get something that will be really good and you can grow into.

Click to expand...

Where's the downvote when you need it?

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Unfortunately, the truth can be painful, can't it. How many years are you willing to wait for a GX8 Mkii or GX10?

These cameras are fun, but long in the tooth.

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As the OP I've provoked more discussion than I expected! I'm quite happy with the photo quality of my GX7 and like the compact design when out hiking. I don't plan changing it unless it breaks but thanks for recommending alternatives all of which are larger than the GX7.

SC489 said:

Promeneur said:

jeffharris said:

Promeneur said:

GX7, GX8, GX85, & GX9 are now all museum pieces. Sure they are capable one way or the other, but why replace them with something similar with so much better cameras now available? I have a GX85 and GX9, but they will be retired to walking around at home for fun. The PEN F will now be a walking around at home camera after I return home from the trip I am on now.

Face it, Panasonic is moving a new direction. For travel I would get an OM-3. In fact it will be my new main camera.

Sorry Panasonic, you missed your chance.

Spend some money and get something that will be really good and you can grow into.

Click to expand...

Where's the downvote when you need it?

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Unfortunately, the truth can be painful, can't it. How many years are you willing to wait for a GX8 Mkii or GX10?

These cameras are fun, but long in the tooth.

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As the OP I've provoked more discussion than I expected! I'm quite happy with the photo quality of my GX7 and like the compact design when out hiking. I don't plan changing it unless it breaks but thanks for recommending alternatives all of which are larger than the GX7.

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Thank you for your reasoned reply. As you have probably observed this place is very territorial and defensive of the cameras we all own. So, it only comes to pass that people throw stones. Maybe that's how some lenses get decentered, too! :-D

I bought my GX85 three years ago and a GX9 eighteen months ago. I liked it so much at the time, I bought another one for my wife, both used. She was shooting with her GX9 today while I have my PEN F with me. I like them for different reasons and each also has a quirk that bugs me at times.

If, you do end up needing to replace your GX7, you could consider the GX9. It's pretty close to what you have. The EVF appears to have the same specs, so I think you would be fine with it, but it does bother some people. I'm fine with it. Hope your GX7 continues to work well for you. After all, most of the photos I have taken in the past are with cameras with similiar specs and even smaller sensors. All good memories that nobody sees other than family and a few friends see a few select photos.

Cheers

jeffharris said:

FrankS009 said:

The GX8 is about 85 grams heavier than the GX7., but only abot 30 grams heavier than the GX9. This may not seem like much difference, but it is enough to change the photographic experience. The GX8 is a comfortablle camera to use and I found the GX7 to be comfortable; but I never enjoyed using the GX9.

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The GX9 always seemed like a series of compromises mashed together. A wholly uninspired and uninspiring camera. A real downgrade from the GX7, which is a special camera.

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Other than the grip and weight difference, I can't see anything about the GX9 that was a downgrade from the GX7. The GX9 wasn't a huge leap forward, but almost everything, including the screen, image quality, and AF performance saw some improvement. Even the inferior grip can be fixed (more of less) with a 3rd party accessory.

For me finally getting a decent auto-ISO implementation was enough reason to upgrade to the GX9, after skipping the GX8/85. Finally, a GX camera that I could happily use at fast paced events, without the need to manually micromanage ISO making me wish for my Sony kit.

jeffharris said:

FrankS009 said:

The GX8 is about 85 grams heavier than the GX7., but only abot 30 grams heavier than the GX9. This may not seem like much difference, but it is enough to change the photographic experience. The GX8 is a comfortablle camera to use and I found the GX7 to be comfortable; but I never enjoyed using the GX9.

Click to expand...

The GX9 always seemed like a series of compromises mashed together. A wholly uninspired and uninspiring camera. A real downgrade from the GX7, which is a special camera.

jeffharris said:

The GX9 has some technological advantages over the G100D. The EVF is not one of them. The G100D weighs about 350 grams, about the same as my old G1 and a hundred grams less tan the GX9.. The point I am making, however is that for me, a more pleasant camera to use results in more and better images..

Click to expand...

The last sentence is the bottom line for me, as well.

The feel of a tool makes a difference. If becomes an extension and sort of disappears in a sense. It’s the same with any good tool. Camera, hammer, whatever.
The GX8 has a great balance of size, weight and handling. A good grip, not too big or too small. The slightly taller body allows to get a better hold on it, unlike the smaller GX7. The Goldilocks camera. It’s just right.

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My local camera store has had a GX8 on the shelf for many months. It is very comfortable to hold but they have neither a battery or a charger. So they are looking for a buyer willing to pay $450 for a camera that may or may not turn on and then the buyer has to buy a battery and a charger separately. Not an offer I plan to take up but I liked the form factor.

I have posted before about replacing my EM10.iv. I had a G100 and GX9 (GX7 mark iii) a couple of years ago. I sold both for a variety of reasons but bottom line, I really disliked the GX9 and I found the G100 interesting but not easy to use because of the tiny controls. A contributing factor was my lack of patience in learning the menus!

But now I am back in M4/3 and need a second body to my G9. I was almost ready to get a G100D but realized the shutter setup was less than ideal due the maximum EFCS speed of 1/500 and sync speed of 1/50.

So, given that my camera budget is constrained due a need to improve my lighting setup, I decided last week to get a G7! It has been on a local delivery FedEx truck for the last two days but it might actually arrive today!

Beyond the fact is an old design (but still on the market brand new) it has two similarities to the G100: it has no IBIS and they weigh about the same amount. They may also have similar EVF’s, but I will find out when it shows up. Differences that are positive for me are the the G7’s larger size and more comfortable grip, higher mechanical shutter speeds, higher flash sync speed and last but very much not least, the low price of a used one in excellent condition of about $270. Shutter shock might be an issue but I can shoot in shutter priority mode and maintain at least 1/200 shutter speed. I need that speed to capture moving subjects anyway, so not a big sacrifice. Buying a G7 might be a mistake, but I think it will work.

G7 has the 16MP sensor, not the 20MP....

-J

jalywol said:

G7 has the 16MP sensor, not the 20MP....

-J

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Thanks. I had a feeling I had forgotten to list something. I am not sure how much difference it will make to what I shoot, but I will find out shortly.

In one of those strange coincidences, OneDrive shows me images I took today over several years. A couple of weeks ago, some images from an EM1 original showed up from before COVID. They looked surprisingly good, all 16MP. Low light will be the challenge though.



Kevin

The Canadian photographer David duChenin, (also wuoted below) wrote that gear is good, but vision is better.

It is almost a cliche to say that the photographer takes the picture, and not the camera; and that a good photographer could take terrific images with an old Brownie. The pitch that cameras like the GX7, GX8 and GX9 are museum pieces that should be kept behind glass sounds like the song of a camera retailer touting the latest and greatest.

Enjoy your GX7. And if you get another camera, enjoy that too, whatever it is.

F.

FrankS009 said:

The Canadian photographer David duChenin, (also wuoted below) wrote that gear is good, but vision is better.

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Can't argue with that. All photos start with a vision.

FrankS009 said:

It is almost a cliche to say that the photographer takes the picture, and not the camera; and that a good photographer could take terrific images with an old Brownie. The pitch that cameras like the GX7, GX8 and GX9 are museum pieces that should be kept behind glass sounds like the song of a camera retailer touting the latest and greatest.

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Still, even Ansel Adams used technology to his advantage and even invented the tools he needed long before Photoshop. This a pretty fascinating video of what Ansel did.


Now, we have a new technology that can be very complex and understanding how to use editing software is part of the process. It's no longer the same world of photography. I've never dried a print in a microwave!

I enjoy using my GX85 and GX9 with manual prime lenses.

As I said, I wish the OP all the best.

FrankS009 said:

Enjoy your GX7. And if you get another camera, enjoy that too, whatever it is.

F.

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FrankS009 said:

The Canadian photographer David duChenin, (also wuoted below) wrote that gear is good, but vision is better.

It is almost a cliche to say that the photographer takes the picture, and not the camera; and that a good photographer could take terrific images with an old Brownie. The pitch that cameras like the GX7, GX8 and GX9 are museum pieces that should be kept behind glass sounds like the song of a camera retailer touting the latest and greatest.

Enjoy your GX7. And if you get another camera, enjoy that too, whatever it is.

F.

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I agree. I see some amazing photos taken with phone cameras.

> I am not sure how much difference it will make to what I shoot, but I will find out shortly.

More noise in the shadows, and doesn't manage long exposures (e.g. for astronomy) well.