m3 macbook pro.
i cant tell much difference except the hdr ones are a bit brighter. the most pronounced difference is in the cloth.
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Editing for SDR and HDR output
- Thread starter SrMi
- Start date
i cant tell much difference except the hdr ones are a bit brighter. the most pronounced difference is in the cloth.
darinb
Senior Member
Yes, the examples in that link show only a subtle difference. The best move is to look at the other links I posted or to just try it yourself--grab a few RAW files and download a free trial of Lightroom if you don't already have it and see what it all looks like (assuming you have an HDR monitor (OLED, mini-LED, etc).
--Darin
darinb
Senior Member
>>I went into display settings and turned on the HDR option.<<
It's not entirely clear to me that your monitor is a "true" HDR monitor--there are a variety of standards, soem of them not what we are talking about. Just having a screen go brighter is not what we are talking about. Is it an OLED or mini-LED? If not, it's probably a "fake" HDR mode--the HDR screens I have don't have HDR modes or buttons, they are HDR all of the time--just not fully utilized without an HDR signal.
In any event, if you like to view your monitor at very low dimming levels then HDR won't do you much good, I would think, since the dimming has probably reduced the screen's dynamic range lower than SDR--thus HDR would be of no benefit?
--Darin
It's not entirely clear to me that your monitor is a "true" HDR monitor--there are a variety of standards, soem of them not what we are talking about. Just having a screen go brighter is not what we are talking about. Is it an OLED or mini-LED? If not, it's probably a "fake" HDR mode--the HDR screens I have don't have HDR modes or buttons, they are HDR all of the time--just not fully utilized without an HDR signal.
In any event, if you like to view your monitor at very low dimming levels then HDR won't do you much good, I would think, since the dimming has probably reduced the screen's dynamic range lower than SDR--thus HDR would be of no benefit?
--Darin
SrMi
Veteran Member
You cannot correctly see images generated for HDR. That is why you have a twisted opinion of what it is and what it does.
SrMi
Veteran Member
A nit is a unit of brightness. Every HDR modern monitor should have that number in their specs.
SrMi
Veteran Member
And color, which is sometimes lost in SDR. If you prefer muddy highlights, SDR is the way to go.
The brightness of the highlights is under the user's control. You can make them hurt your retina or add quality to your images. The biggest challenge remains to prevent highlights from getting too bright while keeping the HDR benefits. However, all of this is described in the Adobe document by Eric Chan.
SrMi
Veteran Member
You should see better sky color in my examples, but yes, there is a slight difference. I do not like HDR photos with bright highlights or Benz's processing style in SDR and HDR. Hence, I tune the images for quality, not effect. I am grateful for Benz's article and his evangelism of HDR output.
In LrC, I always change the limit from four to two stops when processing and never clip. Occasionally, I have to mask large and bright areas. I also regularly have to "fight" with the HDR part of the curve.
But everyone should develop in the way they like it. My processing style makes HDR obvious only when compared to SDR.
DavidMillier
Forum Pro
I'm new to this stuff and am going purely on what I'm reading in this thread so who knows. I can only report what I find:
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SrMi
Veteran Member
I agree.
The HDR images deliver dynamic range, contrast, detail, and color that cannot be achieved with display or print. A beautiful print will always be something special, but the display version is no longer inferior but stands on its own.
It will take time for HDR to become very usable. I am especially missing options to have one image that shows properly as SDR and HDR.
In the meantime, I am will develop every good image for SDR and HDR, since only HDR can unlock the full potential of a raw file.
SrMi
Veteran Member
There is an HDR test that you can run here:
Create and edit true HDR (High Dynamic Range) images - Greg Benz Photography
B&H is currently offering an outstanding deal: $500 off the ASUS PA32UCXR 32" 4K HDR monitor, which is a stunning 1600 nits HDR monitor with 2304 local dimming zones (4x the Pro Display XDR), automated calibration, and single cable charging/pass-through. See my full reviews and other HDR monitor...
gregbenzphotography.com
DavidMillier
Forum Pro
I'm about to go away for a few days. I'll try this on my windows machine when I return. I'm on the ubuntu8 machine at the moment and the site says HDR not supported.
The blurb on that page is very annoying. To start with it claims modern raw files have 15 stops of dynamic range which is only true if you are happy with 99% noise levels. Real world dynamic range is more like 11 stops. Secondly, it strongly implies that it is impossible to display 11 stops of DR on a SDR device. This completely ignores the fact that you can map the full raw range to a restricted output range. I don't know how good conventional monitors are at this, but it's not a problem for a print. You just keep roughly linear separation in the midtones, then heavily non-linearly compress the toe and shoulder regions.
Do it right and it looks totally convincing.
SrMi
Veteran Member
I think you'll need the latest Windows to see HDR output correctly. Also, your monitor seems to have 400+ nits, preventing you from adequately seeing HDR images.
I can never create highlights of the same quality as with HDR mode, and god knows I tried hard. And by quality, I do not mean brightness alone.
SrMi
Veteran Member
The details are in the details
. In the garden villa image, check out the umbrella detail and the sky's detail and color. By the way, the differences are larger when viewing the images in LrC than when viewed on the web. I am still learning about HDR output mode.Edit: I edit and view images on an M3 Max Macbook Pro, using the latest Chrome browser,
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A nit is a candela per square meter.
darinb
Senior Member
Greg,
This is your time. You are the DPreview Medium Format Board's prophet and evangelist of viewing images (especially medium format images) on beautiful screens.
HDR is what you have been waiting for.
Come back from Mexico, you are needed. Come back to your 32-inch screen. Hit the HDR button. We need you.
--Darin
This is your time. You are the DPreview Medium Format Board's prophet and evangelist of viewing images (especially medium format images) on beautiful screens.
HDR is what you have been waiting for.
Come back from Mexico, you are needed. Come back to your 32-inch screen. Hit the HDR button. We need you.
--Darin
Interceptor121
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I have had HDR screen since the very beginning
There is an overwhelming emphasis on brigthness however what matters is contrast
I much prefer my LG OLED tv with true black to the bright image of my macbook pro or my iphones or even worse some desktop monitors that are just basic LED
Ultimately 10 stops of dynamic range are plenty and many images do not even reach them
Sunset sunrise and backlit shots are examples where HDR can help but your examples do not particularly benefit from it
Instagram started to support HDR because phones create HDR images
Phones will drive the adoption, we have had Tv and monitors for years and nothing has happened to date
HDR is interesting because it can avoid editing which many times is done to rebalance dynamic range in a gamma you can display or print, this is the same principles of HLG broadcasting
There is an overwhelming emphasis on brigthness however what matters is contrast
I much prefer my LG OLED tv with true black to the bright image of my macbook pro or my iphones or even worse some desktop monitors that are just basic LED
Ultimately 10 stops of dynamic range are plenty and many images do not even reach them
Sunset sunrise and backlit shots are examples where HDR can help but your examples do not particularly benefit from it
Instagram started to support HDR because phones create HDR images
Phones will drive the adoption, we have had Tv and monitors for years and nothing has happened to date
HDR is interesting because it can avoid editing which many times is done to rebalance dynamic range in a gamma you can display or print, this is the same principles of HLG broadcasting
SrMi
Veteran Member
That does not mean that you can view HDR mode images properly.
What matters also is detail and color which you lose in SDR mode (highlights).
I have very rarely seen an image that has not improved by switching to HDR mode.
If it were not for occasional too-bright spots, HDR mode requires less editing. Especially the problematic sky masks can often be avoided.
My advice to everyone is, before making an opinion on HDR mode, to try it out first. The follow up discussions will be more productive after the experimentation.
Interceptor121
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SrMi
Veteran Member
You have much more experience with HDR output than me. Would you mind sharing what tools you used for two years to create HDR photos, what output format you used, and how you shared/viewed HDR photos?
I am still struggling with HDR. What I see in Develop mode differs from what I see in the exported AVIF files. Do you have an example that is a better showcase? I consider images with overly bright highlights to be the negative aspect of HDR, the same as the garish look of early HDR merges.
In SDR, the highlights in the overcast sky are muted grey, while in HDR, the original blue comes through. That is visible in my posted images. I consider as highlights any brightness that falls in the HDR part of the tone curve.
I am looking at the practical results. The problem is that the highlights seem to lose information in SDR (colors and details), which are apparent in HDR.
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DavidMillier
Forum Pro
If you are correct about the loss of highlight colour in SDR, what is the cause? Is it really a lack of dynamic range or some other monitor flaw?
For example, if you display an image that is, say, two stops underexposed and has no true highlight on an SDR monitor does it still lose colour in the brighter parts?
For example, if you display an image that is, say, two stops underexposed and has no true highlight on an SDR monitor does it still lose colour in the brighter parts?
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