Best m/43 lenses for micro contrast

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What would you say are among best m/43 lenses for micro contrast performance similar to Zeiss and Canon L glass?
That's an interesting question as micro contrast doesn't appear to be something that's easy to articulate. Could micro contrast be described as the quality of the detail captured by a lens rather than just the amount of detail captured by a lens? Or is that an incorrect way of looking at it?
No. It is the quality of the detail in areas of the picture with very low contrast.

Best seen in objects with very fine detail located in the shadow. Like for example pebbles or leaves in the shadow under a tree. Often underexposed, but not as much underexposed to be masked by noise.

It can also be seen well in pictures that on the whole have very low contrast. Like a landscape under dark heavy clouds.

Some lenses have excellent resolution in high contrast areas. They have outstanding MTF charts. They can be very well corrected for aberrations. Yet display no microcontrast whatsoever, they are simply unable to keep up resolution and tonal/color gradation in low contrast areas of a picture. No 3D-pop. Pictures with lots of low contrast areas look flat and lifeless, almost like looking at a printed picture in a newspaper.
I have heard a lot of great things about Olympus primes but do not quite have the experience with them myself, there also the Sigma primes and Leica, but can they provide?
 
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In my experience this isn't what micro-contrast really does for an image. Micro-contrast simply determines whether it's sharp and resolving fine details.

The things that make an image "pop" (in my understanding) isn't at the micro-level, it's at the macro-level, which can be due to any number of factors. I'll give some examples in a portrait context.
  1. Using a longer focal length from further away limits the background "clutter", better isolating the subject
  2. Using lighting to highlight the subject and diminish the background
  3. Using techniques such as the "clarity" slider in Lightroom to adjust midtone contrast - especially if you're using this selectively only on your subject
  4. Using shallow DoF to separate your subject from the background
IMO, seeking out lenses known for micro-contrast isn't going to influence the "pop" in your images more than those 4 factors will. For example, while the 75/1.8 indeed is very sharp with great micro-contrast I posit that the reason it produces images that "pop" is because of the focal length (and the minimization of clutter that often comes with it) in combination with the very usable f/1.8 wide-open aperture and the shallow DoF it produces. 🤷🏽‍♂️
Yes you are entirely correct,

Its not a lens property and never was, its a compositional and lighting property, if all you take picture of is a flat field with absolutely nothing in it with overcast lightning, you will have, a "flat image"

But if you are taking picture of a narrow path surrounded by bushings and use a lens with good separation in good light, there will be "3D pop" effect that everyone keeps crying about, and its like you say because in EVERY Goddamn example people put forth, the lighting, separation, thats what makes it, not the lens itself.

Thats why modern photographers underestimate using a good flash these days.
And I see a lot of modern photographers just go complete ape with big toneh lens and wide open, blurring the background out completely, ruining any form of separation there could have been, thats why I been bigger fan of APS-C form factor, you can still shoot quite open with a lens but you wont have the overkill background toneh.

But for micro contrast its entirely different subject, the concept is very real and described in painful details mathematically decades ago before digital was even conceived of.
But I also find it difficult to replicate, because number one, I do not currently have lenses that I would at least consider having such a huge micro contrast ability that lets say I take the Sigma 16mm and compare to the Leica 15mm, will I see it? I have no idea, I own neither lens, I have bought the Leica a few days ago, I might get the Sigma.

Thats another thing, I see the micro-contrast very clearly on the Sony Alpha 900 with the Zeiss, but here is my biggest issue with this, is it the Colour Filter Array doing this, or is it the lens? Or a combination? Again I have no idea, I would need to test it.

Thats why I am asking, what do people here on DPReview Forum, consider the best micro contrast - m/43 lens, okay I got a few answers now, and a lot of recurring lenses that a lot of people seem to agree, yes these have the micro contrast, I buy a few of these and see for myself will they deliver? What should I compare to? Oh why not Sigma, everyone seems to consider Sigma to deliver zero micro contrast (LOL) despite Sigma having some of the simplest element designs there is in a modern lens.

In fact it also be interesting to acquire Sigma 50mm F1.4 EX for Canon EF since I own that very lens on Minolta A-mount, then I can compare Sony Alpha 900 to a Panasonic G9 with a pass-through adapter, or just rent a Canon R8, and see is it the sensor, or is it the lens.

Then all that remains, how do I even test the micro contrast LOL, I suppose a landscape would be the best in more golden light specially in autumn, or flowers.
No idea how you would test such a thing indoors in controlled light.
 
What would you say are among best m/43 lenses for micro contrast performance similar to Zeiss and Canon L glass?

I have heard a lot of great things about Olympus primes but do not quite have the experience with them myself, there also the Sigma primes and Leica, but can they provide?
 
What would you say are among best m/43 lenses for micro contrast performance similar to Zeiss and Canon L glass?
That's an interesting question as micro contrast doesn't appear to be something that's easy to articulate. Could micro contrast be described as the quality of the detail captured by a lens rather than just the amount of detail captured by a lens? Or is that an incorrect way of looking at it?
No. It is the quality of the detail in areas of the picture with very low contrast.
That's interesting. So could 'very low contrast' be an image that's made up of similar mid tones, with no shadows or highlights?
Best seen in objects with very fine detail located in the shadow. Like for example pebbles or leaves in the shadow under a tree. Often underexposed, but not as much underexposed to be masked by noise.

It can also be seen well in pictures that on the whole have very low contrast. Like a landscape under dark heavy clouds.

Some lenses have excellent resolution in high contrast areas. They have outstanding MTF charts. They can be very well corrected for aberrations. Yet display no microcontrast whatsoever, they are simply unable to keep up resolution and tonal/color gradation in low contrast areas of a picture. No 3D-pop. Pictures with lots of low contrast areas look flat and lifeless, almost like looking at a printed picture in a newspaper.
I have heard a lot of great things about Olympus primes but do not quite have the experience with them myself, there also the Sigma primes and Leica, but can they provide?
 
I have never read or seen any proof of this. It reads like a lot of handwaving and subjectivity similar to so called "lens pop". The only way to prove it is with double-blind test using prints.
 
We can't have discussion based on a false premise. It is like discussing why the earth is flat.
It is not a false premise. Micro-contrast exists.
It has no definition and no parameters to measure it by.
So in clear terms define how common explanations of micro-contrast do not constitute definition and how have you determined that micro-contrast is a false premise?
Read the first "Read This" post above by ZodiacPhoto. It is a false premise, because it does not a large majority that believe that it exists.
It is easy to find definitions and detailed explanations of micro-contrast, This definition is built from caparisons where these qualities are present in lenses as noted as intentional factors in considered lens design.
Definitions are not made of example. There is a definition of gravity because it can be scientifically proven.
It just concerns very fine detail that you need to print or view at a resolution high enough to appreciate.
Subjective.
It would be interesting to have a double-blind test in a print to see if anyone can actually tell the difference in a print that has it from one that does not have it.
When dealing with pictorial representation, we can discern differences by looking at comparisons. Art is not measured in absolute terms, its quality is only determined as a measure of comparison. Sensitivity to pictorial nuance is another factor. Yet it is nuance that often defines unmeasurable or difficult-to-quantify quality factors.
Subjective and handwaving. Art is not measurable because it is art. If you claim that micro-contrast is a property of lenses, whose design is based on science, than that property would be measurable like resolution.
Essentially the better the lens performs, the better the lens can transfer low-contrast objects to the image point. In the case of a blind test, this would simply be the process of identifying an area recognisable specular detail and comparing how two samples render it.
Micro-contrast is used to describe the ability of a lens to resolve the fine specular details (micro) that the sensor or film captures as tonal values (contrast). A lens with good micro-contrast can resolve these minute tones and define them as detail.
I have have never seen the specs of a lens listed for micro-contrast.
Yet you will see it described in many lens reviews when discussing nuanced qualities of a lens. That you haven't seen a measured spec does not deny its presence. I don't see lens bokeh as a listed measured spec either, its simply the subjective view point of the reviewer. That a quality cannot be measured in absolute terms does not mean you cannot assess via comparison.
Totally subjective by you. I can see bokeh clearly and it's quality can be measured.
A lens that lacks micro-contrast cannot define these minute tonal variations, as a consequence, these details are lost.
This can not be proven.
It can be where you have two images shot with two different lenses of equal measured sharpness but different contrast values. Where sample a) preserves minute details vs sample b) does not present the same level of defined minute detail. We can make an assessment as to which lens has a better micro-contrast properties.
You can not compare two images side-by-side as a scientific test, because you have a 50% chance of choosing the right one by guessing.
This is not simply describing a sharp lens. Specular details can be lost to a sharp lens that produces too much contrast. In the same way, details are lost where a lens lacks contrast.
Also can not be proven. Changing contrast can not show more detail, only a lens's or senor's resolving ability can do that.
? ? You just explained the quality of a lens as it relates to micro-contrast. It is a lens in combination with the sensor that determines contrast and subsequent details. If two lenses have equal resolving power this doesn't mean they present equal values with regards to contrast.

But you are right. You cannot add details that were never captured by changing the contrast via post-processing. You will not recover these details. Hence lenses with good micro-contrast are desirable to define these specular details that give an image "pop" that cannot be replicated by simply pushing contrast sliders around in post processing.
 
I see a lot of people mention the 15mm F1.7 over and over again on this forum and other places, there definitely seems to be an anonymous vote that this lens is indeed special, worth a purchase just to see what it is, thankfully the used market has not caught up on the speciality of the lens since the prices are like lowest I saw was 80 euros on one in mint condition.
That was my favorite lens on the GM5 - one camera and lens that I regret having sold.



Great lens for a walk in the city
Great lens for a walk in the city
 
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Lens or image "pop" is another one of those very subjective qualities mentioned on DPR, but DPR has never bothered to discuss or measure it. I am waiting to see if DPR will do a double-blind test to see if people can pick it out scientifically from a series of prints.

This subject and micro contrast have been discussed to death on DPR. I think most people posting don't have much scientific training. Similar to "I know a good picture when I see one.".

Maybe I should start buying Leica because of the Leica "look".
 
In my experience this isn't what micro-contrast really does for an image. Micro-contrast simply determines whether it's sharp and resolving fine details.

The things that make an image "pop" (in my understanding) isn't at the micro-level, it's at the macro-level, which can be due to any number of factors. I'll give some examples in a portrait context.
  1. Using a longer focal length from further away limits the background "clutter", better isolating the subject
  2. Using lighting to highlight the subject and diminish the background
  3. Using techniques such as the "clarity" slider in Lightroom to adjust midtone contrast - especially if you're using this selectively only on your subject
  4. Using shallow DoF to separate your subject from the background
IMO, seeking out lenses known for micro-contrast isn't going to influence the "pop" in your images more than those 4 factors will. For example, while the 75/1.8 indeed is very sharp with great micro-contrast I posit that the reason it produces images that "pop" is because of the focal length (and the minimization of clutter that often comes with it) in combination with the very usable f/1.8 wide-open aperture and the shallow DoF it produces. 🤷🏽‍♂️
Yes you are entirely correct,

Its not a lens property and never was, its a compositional and lighting property, if all you take picture of is a flat field with absolutely nothing in it with overcast lightning, you will have, a "flat image"

But if you are taking picture of a narrow path surrounded by bushings and use a lens with good separation in good light, there will be "3D pop" effect that everyone keeps crying about, and its like you say because in EVERY Goddamn example people put forth, the lighting, separation, thats what makes it, not the lens itself.

Thats why modern photographers underestimate using a good flash these days.
And I see a lot of modern photographers just go complete ape with big toneh lens and wide open, blurring the background out completely, ruining any form of separation there could have been, thats why I been bigger fan of APS-C form factor, you can still shoot quite open with a lens but you wont have the overkill background toneh.

But for micro contrast its entirely different subject, the concept is very real and described in painful details mathematically decades ago before digital was even conceived of.
But I also find it difficult to replicate, because number one, I do not currently have lenses that I would at least consider having such a huge micro contrast ability that lets say I take the Sigma 16mm and compare to the Leica 15mm, will I see it? I have no idea, I own neither lens, I have bought the Leica a few days ago, I might get the Sigma.
What I was getting at above is that you're chasing a dragon here a bit. If you're looking for something that's going to have a tangible, practical impact on the quality of your photography "micro-contrast" isn't it, IMO. 🤷🏽‍♂️
 
Lens or image "pop" is another one of those very subjective qualities mentioned on DPR, but DPR has never bothered to discuss or measure it. I am waiting to see if DPR will do a double-blind test to see if people can pick it out scientifically from a series of prints.

This subject and micro contrast have been discussed to death on DPR. I think most people posting don't have much scientific training. Similar to "I know a good picture when I see one.".

Maybe I should start buying Leica because of the Leica "look".
Maybe you should https://www.artphotoacademy.com/the-leica-look/

I’m pretty convinced that good high frequency MTF with low astigmatism is what I mean by micro-contrast. Only way to find out is a very complex experimental design with blind ranking.

Andrew
 
What would you say are among best m/43 lenses for micro contrast performance similar to Zeiss and Canon L glass?
That's an interesting question as micro contrast doesn't appear to be something that's easy to articulate. Could micro contrast be described as the quality of the detail captured by a lens rather than just the amount of detail captured by a lens? Or is that an incorrect way of looking at it?
No. It is the quality of the detail in areas of the picture with very low contrast.
That's interesting. So could 'very low contrast' be an image that's made up of similar mid tones, with no shadows or highlights?
Yes

But it does not necessarily need to be a whole image made up that way. Many images contain several smaller areas made up that way.
Best seen in objects with very fine detail located in the shadow. Like for example pebbles or leaves in the shadow under a tree. Often underexposed, but not as much underexposed to be masked by noise.

It can also be seen well in pictures that on the whole have very low contrast. Like a landscape under dark heavy clouds.

Some lenses have excellent resolution in high contrast areas. They have outstanding MTF charts. They can be very well corrected for aberrations. Yet display no microcontrast whatsoever, they are simply unable to keep up resolution and tonal/color gradation in low contrast areas of a picture. No 3D-pop. Pictures with lots of low contrast areas look flat and lifeless, almost like looking at a printed picture in a newspaper.
I have heard a lot of great things about Olympus primes but do not quite have the experience with them myself, there also the Sigma primes and Leica, but can they provide?
 
Lens or image "pop" is another one of those very subjective qualities mentioned on DPR, but DPR has never bothered to discuss or measure it. I am waiting to see if DPR will do a double-blind test to see if people can pick it out scientifically from a series of prints.

This subject and micro contrast have been discussed to death on DPR. I think most people posting don't have much scientific training. Similar to "I know a good picture when I see one.".

Maybe I should start buying Leica because of the Leica "look".
Maybe you should https://www.artphotoacademy.com/the-leica-look/
If in a certain range of time many people used Leicas, it is like stacking a deck of cards in your favor. It makes it easier to pick one taken by a Leica and than claiming that it has the "Leica look". This is called confirmation bias and not scientific.
I’m pretty convinced that good high frequency MTF with low astigmatism is what I mean by micro-contrast. Only way to find out is a very complex experimental design with blind ranking.
Not really that complex: Just agree on a print size large enough where some photographers think that is would show up. Make 10 prints of the same subject, one of those showing micro contrast (10% chance of guessing and picking the right one) , let 10 ordinary people try to pick the one that has micro contrast. Of course, keep camera types hidden(double-blind).

I have some money that says they will not pick the right one.
 
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What would you say are among best m/43 lenses for micro contrast performance similar to Zeiss and Canon L glass?

I have heard a lot of great things about Olympus primes but do not quite have the experience with them myself, there also the Sigma primes and Leica, but can they provide?
The 12mm F2 is quite an amazing lens. It’s not clinically pin sharp into the corners at F2. But I still love that lens.
I love that lens too. For it's pleasant rendering, partly due to some slight residual field curvature. But I do not think it is an example for good microcontrast, it does not have any of that.
 
Lens or image "pop" is another one of those very subjective qualities mentioned on DPR, but DPR has never bothered to discuss or measure it. I am waiting to see if DPR will do a double-blind test to see if people can pick it out scientifically from a series of prints.

This subject and micro contrast have been discussed to death on DPR. I think most people posting don't have much scientific training. Similar to "I know a good picture when I see one.".

Maybe I should start buying Leica because of the Leica "look".
Maybe you should https://www.artphotoacademy.com/the-leica-look/
If in a certain range of time many people used Leicas, it is like stacking a deck of cards in your favor. It makes it easier to pick one taken by a Leica and than claiming that it has the "Leica look". This is called confirmation bias and not scientific.
I’m pretty convinced that good high frequency MTF with low astigmatism is what I mean by micro-contrast. Only way to find out is a very complex experimental design with blind ranking.
Not really that complex: Just agree on a print size large enough where some photographers think that is would show up. Make 10 prints of the same subject, one of those showing micro contrast (10% chance of guessing and picking the right one) , let 10 ordinary people try to pick the one that has micro contrast. Of course, keep camera types hidden(double-blind).

I have some money that says they will not pick the right one.
My point was about my perception, not whether a group of people can identify micro-contrast not otherwise knowing what you mean by it.

There are a lot of confounding factors you have to account for in the experimental design.

Andrew
 
But you are right. You cannot add details that were never captured by changing the contrast via post-processing. You will not recover these details. Hence lenses with good micro-contrast are desirable to define these specular details that give an image "pop" that cannot be replicated by simply pushing contrast sliders around in post processing.
In my experience this isn't what micro-contrast really does for an image. Micro-contrast simply determines whether it's sharp and resolving fine details.

The things that make an image "pop" (in my understanding) isn't at the micro-level, it's at the macro-level, which can be due to any number of factors. I'll give some examples in a portrait context.
  1. Using a longer focal length from further away limits the background "clutter", better isolating the subject
  2. Using lighting to highlight the subject and diminish the background
  3. Using techniques such as the "clarity" slider in Lightroom to adjust midtone contrast - especially if you're using this selectively only on your subject
  4. Using shallow DoF to separate your subject from the background
IMO, seeking out lenses known for micro-contrast isn't going to influence the "pop" in your images more than those 4 factors will. For example, while the 75/1.8 indeed is very sharp with great micro-contrast I posit that the reason it produces images that "pop" is because of the focal length (and the minimization of clutter that often comes with it) in combination with the very usable f/1.8 wide-open aperture and the shallow DoF it produces. 🤷🏽‍♂️
“Pop” or “Zeiss Pop” is adopted Zeiss marketing speak to describe the impact micro-contrast has on the image. “Pop “or “3D look “in this context is not related to focal length/DOF, subject separation or lighting. It is referring to how the lens draws, specifically how qualities of micro-contrast draw and define mid-tone ranges. Accentuating the mid tone draw through micro-contrast, adds a 3 dimensional quality or “pop” to the image or subject.


Point 3 you have made above is literally the process one would use to emulate the effect of micro-contrast 🤷‍♂️
 
Lens or image "pop" is another one of those very subjective qualities mentioned on DPR, but DPR has never bothered to discuss or measure it. I am waiting to see if DPR will do a double-blind test to see if people can pick it out scientifically from a series of prints.

This subject and micro contrast have been discussed to death on DPR. I think most people posting don't have much scientific training. Similar to "I know a good picture when I see one.".

Maybe I should start buying Leica because of the Leica "look".
Maybe you should https://www.artphotoacademy.com/the-leica-look/
If in a certain range of time many people used Leicas, it is like stacking a deck of cards in your favor. It makes it easier to pick one taken by a Leica and than claiming that it has the "Leica look". This is called confirmation bias and not scientific.
I’m pretty convinced that good high frequency MTF with low astigmatism is what I mean by micro-contrast. Only way to find out is a very complex experimental design with blind ranking.
Not really that complex: Just agree on a print size large enough where some photographers think that is would show up. Make 10 prints of the same subject, one of those showing micro contrast (10% chance of guessing and picking the right one) , let 10 ordinary people try to pick the one that has micro contrast. Of course, keep camera types hidden(double-blind).

I have some money that says they will not pick the right one.
I agree. Because "ordinary people" do not know what to look for. It takes trained eyes to spot the subtle difference.

It's like with food tasting, where you need trained senses too. And there too, it is very difficult if not impossible to measure and quantify the difference how say a Swiss Emmenthal cheese that was stored 12 months and was turned and washed every week, tastes different from an industrially made clone. If you have trained senses, it is very obvious though. Trained senses you only get with experience, and if your whole life you only ever consumed industrially made sliced cheese, you cannot have that experience. Worse, if you never had the real thing, you may not even know how it tastes and prefer the industrial stuff that you know, until your senses have time to develop and sharpen

What I mean is this: only once you have seen and memorized how microcontrast looks, it becomes something desirable to you. And you start looking out for it. And you start missing a lack thereof. And only then can you accept it even exists.

It is much more subtle than bokeh. And yet, a beginner photographer has first to learn how bokeh can look like, and which kind of bokeh looks better than others. Only then it will become something he worries about at all.
 
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We can't have discussion based on a false premise. It is like discussing why the earth is flat.
It is not a false premise. Micro-contrast exists.
It has no definition and no parameters to measure it by.
So in clear terms define how common explanations of micro-contrast do not constitute definition and how have you determined that micro-contrast is a false premise?
Read the first "Read This" post above by ZodiacPhoto. It is a false premise, because it does not a large majority that believe that it exists.
"It is a false premise, because it does not a large majority that believe that it exists"

? I'm not sure what you mean here. Micro-contrast is a widely accepted quality of lens design.

Do you have your own position on this? And are you able to articulate it?

ZodiacPhoto's first comment on the links provided. It

"Microcontrast is the ability of a lens to preserve high contrast (w/b ratio) to the limit of the available resolution of the lens-and-sensor system. It is real in lenses like Zeiss Otus, etc."
It is easy to find definitions and detailed explanations of micro-contrast, This definition is built from caparisons where these qualities are present in lenses as noted as intentional factors in considered lens design.
Definitions are not made of example. There is a definition of gravity because it can be scientifically proven.
?We can find many definitions that lack scientific measure. Even within science. There is a definition to describe the effects of anaesthetics, but very little scientific explanation as to how anaesthetics block pain receptors sending signals to the brain. We don't know exactly how they work, we just know they do.
It just concerns very fine detail that you need to print or view at a resolution high enough to appreciate.
Subjective.
Sure, but noted by many.
It would be interesting to have a double-blind test in a print to see if anyone can actually tell the difference in a print that has it from one that does not have it.
When dealing with pictorial representation, we can discern differences by looking at comparisons. Art is not measured in absolute terms, its quality is only determined as a measure of comparison. Sensitivity to pictorial nuance is another factor. Yet it is nuance that often defines unmeasurable or difficult-to-quantify quality factors.
Subjective and handwaving. Art is not measurable because it is art. If you claim that micro-contrast is a property of lenses, whose design is based on science, than that property would be measurable like resolution.
Art is measurable through the lens of history and through a process of comparisons. It is not quantifiable. This doesn't mean art is not assessed and measured.

I'm pretty sure Zeiss lens designs and coatings are based on science.

https://lenspire.zeiss.com/photo/en/article/micro-contrast-and-the-zeiss-pop-by-lloyd-chambers
Essentially the better the lens performs, the better the lens can transfer low-contrast objects to the image point. In the case of a blind test, this would simply be the process of identifying an area recognisable specular detail and comparing how two samples render it.
Micro-contrast is used to describe the ability of a lens to resolve the fine specular details (micro) that the sensor or film captures as tonal values (contrast). A lens with good micro-contrast can resolve these minute tones and define them as detail.
I have have never seen the specs of a lens listed for micro-contrast.
Yet you will see it described in many lens reviews when discussing nuanced qualities of a lens. That you haven't seen a measured spec does not deny its presence. I don't see lens bokeh as a listed measured spec either, its simply the subjective view point of the reviewer. That a quality cannot be measured in absolute terms does not mean you cannot assess via comparison.
Totally subjective by you. I can see bokeh clearly and it's quality can be measured.
You can see anything clearly and asses it when you know what you're looking at. The effects of micro-contrast may present more obviously in certain images and less so in others.

Show me a measured spec as it relates to Bokeh
A lens that lacks micro-contrast cannot define these minute tonal variations, as a consequence, these details are lost.
This can not be proven.
It can be where you have two images shot with two different lenses of equal measured sharpness but different contrast values. Where sample a) preserves minute details vs sample b) does not present the same level of defined minute detail. We can make an assessment as to which lens has a better micro-contrast properties.
You can not compare two images side-by-side as a scientific test, because you have a 50% chance of choosing the right one by guessing.
You cannot conduct a scientific test when assessing an aesthetic attribute. You can however look at the said images under a loop to compare the micro-contrast signatures responsible for that aesthetic attribute.
This is not simply describing a sharp lens. Specular details can be lost to a sharp lens that produces too much contrast. In the same way, details are lost where a lens lacks contrast.
Also can not be proven. Changing contrast can not show more detail, only a lens's or senor's resolving ability can do that.
? ? You just explained the quality of a lens as it relates to micro-contrast. It is a lens in combination with the sensor that determines contrast and subsequent details. If two lenses have equal resolving power this doesn't mean they present equal values with regards to contrast.

But you are right. You cannot add details that were never captured by changing the contrast via post-processing. You will not recover these details. Hence lenses with good micro-contrast are desirable to define these specular details that give an image "pop" that cannot be replicated by simply pushing contrast sliders around in post processing.
 
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Any thoughts on the PL 25/1.4? Or even the older 4/3 PL 25/1.4. I heard a lot of praises for these two lenses, some even consider the 25/1.4 m43 one of the top 3-5 lenses to have in the m43 system (from micro four nerds).

Do they have good micro contrasts?
 
What would you say are among best m/43 lenses for micro contrast performance similar to Zeiss and Canon L glass?
That's an interesting question as micro contrast doesn't appear to be something that's easy to articulate. Could micro contrast be described as the quality of the detail captured by a lens rather than just the amount of detail captured by a lens? Or is that an incorrect way of looking at it?
No. It is the quality of the detail in areas of the picture with very low contrast.
That's interesting. So could 'very low contrast' be an image that's made up of similar mid tones, with no shadows or highlights?
Yes

But it does not necessarily need to be a whole image made up that way. Many images contain several smaller areas made up that way.
If someone takes a very low contrast photo where the whole image is made up of similar mid tones, how do they go about identifying the 'quality of the detail' that is the result of their lens having good micro contrast, as opposed to a sufficient amount of detail having been captured.
Best seen in objects with very fine detail located in the shadow. Like for example pebbles or leaves in the shadow under a tree. Often underexposed, but not as much underexposed to be masked by noise.

It can also be seen well in pictures that on the whole have very low contrast. Like a landscape under dark heavy clouds.

Some lenses have excellent resolution in high contrast areas. They have outstanding MTF charts. They can be very well corrected for aberrations. Yet display no microcontrast whatsoever, they are simply unable to keep up resolution and tonal/color gradation in low contrast areas of a picture. No 3D-pop. Pictures with lots of low contrast areas look flat and lifeless, almost like looking at a printed picture in a newspaper.
I have heard a lot of great things about Olympus primes but do not quite have the experience with them myself, there also the Sigma primes and Leica, but can they provide?
 
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Lens or image "pop" is another one of those very subjective qualities mentioned on DPR, but DPR has never bothered to discuss or measure it. I am waiting to see if DPR will do a double-blind test to see if people can pick it out scientifically from a series of prints.

This subject and micro contrast have been discussed to death on DPR. I think most people posting don't have much scientific training. Similar to "I know a good picture when I see one.".

Maybe I should start buying Leica because of the Leica "look".
Maybe you should https://www.artphotoacademy.com/the-leica-look/
If in a certain range of time many people used Leicas, it is like stacking a deck of cards in your favor. It makes it easier to pick one taken by a Leica and than claiming that it has the "Leica look". This is called confirmation bias and not scientific.
I’m pretty convinced that good high frequency MTF with low astigmatism is what I mean by micro-contrast. Only way to find out is a very complex experimental design with blind ranking.
Not really that complex: Just agree on a print size large enough where some photographers think that is would show up. Make 10 prints of the same subject, one of those showing micro contrast (10% chance of guessing and picking the right one) , let 10 ordinary people try to pick the one that has micro contrast. Of course, keep camera types hidden(double-blind).

I have some money that says they will not pick the right one.
My point was about my perception, not whether a group of people can identify micro-contrast not otherwise knowing what you mean by it.
My point was that your perception is totally subjective, therefore only meaningful to you.
There are a lot of confounding factors you have to account for in the experimental design.

Andrew
 
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