Cheapest MF gear for 1 body + 2 primes (35 & 135 or 85mm in FF equiv)?

gaul

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Hello,

What would be in your experience the cheapest way to get into Medium Format?




Gear to consider for the calculation:
  • 1 body (no need for a quick autofocus, no need for video)
  • 1 decent prime around 35mm equivalent in FF terms
  • 1 decent prime around 135mm equivalent in FF terms (85mm also OK)
If we can pls consider 2nd hand prices for the calculation...

Thanks, rgds

Gaul
 
Film or digital?
 
Hello,

What would be in your experience the cheapest way to get into Medium Format?

Gear to consider for the calculation:
  • 1 body (no need for a quick autofocus, no need for video)
  • 1 decent prime around 35mm equivalent in FF terms
  • 1 decent prime around 135mm equivalent in FF terms (85mm also OK)
If we can pls consider 2nd hand prices for the calculation...

Thanks, rgds

Gaul
Used prices, could get better deals if you look around.

1. GFX50s, yup only 50MP and has all that so called aliasing but you will be happy - $2000

2. 45mm f2.8 GF - $850

3. 110mm f2 GF - $1500
 
Hello,

What would be in your experience the cheapest way to get into Medium Format?

Gear to consider for the calculation:
  • 1 body (no need for a quick autofocus, no need for video)
  • 1 decent prime around 35mm equivalent in FF terms
  • 1 decent prime around 135mm equivalent in FF terms (85mm also OK)
If we can pls consider 2nd hand prices for the calculation...

Thanks, rgds

Gaul
Used prices, could get better deals if you look around.

1. GFX50s, yup only 50MP and has all that so called aliasing but you will be happy - $2000
Make it 50SII for about $200 more and you get IBIS (if shooting handheld is important).
2. 45mm f2.8 GF - $850

3. 110mm f2 GF - $1500
+1

Given the f/#, these are the two best primes in any MF system, period!
 
Pentacon Six. I just recently missed at £150 a properly photographing Pentacon Six with Zeiss Biometar 80/2.8.

Film and developing costs add up ofcourse pretty rapidly.

However if you shoot something that you feel you would print frame display then its straightforward to just take 1-7 photos a photo outing day.

--
Photography after all is interplay of light alongside perspective.
 
Last edited:
Hello,

What would be in your experience the cheapest way to get into Medium Format?

Gear to consider for the calculation:
  • 1 body (no need for a quick autofocus, no need for video)
  • 1 decent prime around 35mm equivalent in FF terms
  • 1 decent prime around 135mm equivalent in FF terms (85mm also OK)
If we can pls consider 2nd hand prices for the calculation...

Thanks, rgds

Gaul
Used prices, could get better deals if you look around.

1. GFX50s, yup only 50MP and has all that so called aliasing but you will be happy - $2000
Make it 50SII for about $200 more and you get IBIS (if shooting handheld is important).
2. 45mm f2.8 GF - $850

3. 110mm f2 GF - $1500
+1

Given the f/#, these are the two best primes in any MF system, period!
Honestly I shot 99% of my shots with GFX50s hand held at 1/125. Not more than 5 blurry images and I have shaky hands. I was laso using mechanical shutter those days.
 
Hello,

What would be in your experience the cheapest way to get into Medium Format?

Gear to consider for the calculation:
  • 1 body (no need for a quick autofocus, no need for video)
  • 1 decent prime around 35mm equivalent in FF terms
  • 1 decent prime around 135mm equivalent in FF terms (85mm also OK)
If we can pls consider 2nd hand prices for the calculation...

Thanks, rgds

Gaul
Used prices, could get better deals if you look around.

1. GFX50s, yup only 50MP and has all that so called aliasing but you will be happy - $2000
Make it 50SII for about $200 more and you get IBIS (if shooting handheld is important).
2. 45mm f2.8 GF - $850

3. 110mm f2 GF - $1500
+1

Given the f/#, these are the two best primes in any MF system, period!
Honestly I shot 99% of my shots with GFX50s hand held at 1/125.
Hand held shooter here also, with the 50S, though I didn’t use a blanket shutter speed, my minimum was based on FL and my judged shakiness (more after walking).



So either 1/FL or 1/(FL*2).
Not more than 5 blurry images and I have shaky hands. I was laso using mechanical shutter those days.
EFCS essential, and no reason not to use it.
 
Hello,

What would be in your experience the cheapest way to get into Medium Format?

Gear to consider for the calculation:
  • 1 body (no need for a quick autofocus, no need for video)
  • 1 decent prime around 35mm equivalent in FF terms
  • 1 decent prime around 135mm equivalent in FF terms (85mm also OK)
If we can pls consider 2nd hand prices for the calculation...

Thanks, rgds

Gaul
Used prices, could get better deals if you look around.

1. GFX50s, yup only 50MP and has all that so called aliasing but you will be happy - $2000
Make it 50SII for about $200 more and you get IBIS (if shooting handheld is important).
2. 45mm f2.8 GF - $850

3. 110mm f2 GF - $1500
+1

Given the f/#, these are the two best primes in any MF system, period!
Honestly I shot 99% of my shots with GFX50s hand held at 1/125. Not more than 5 blurry images and I have shaky hands. I was laso using mechanical shutter those days.
I do go down to 1/30 indoors with my 110 for my cats and sometimes even for people and I find IBIS a lifesaver even when I have pretty steady hands.
 
Hello,

What would be in your experience the cheapest way to get into Medium Format?

Gear to consider for the calculation:
  • 1 body (no need for a quick autofocus, no need for video)
  • 1 decent prime around 35mm equivalent in FF terms
  • 1 decent prime around 135mm equivalent in FF terms (85mm also OK)
If we can pls consider 2nd hand prices for the calculation...

Thanks, rgds

Gaul
Used prices, could get better deals if you look around.

1. GFX50s, yup only 50MP and has all that so called aliasing but you will be happy - $2000
Make it 50SII for about $200 more and you get IBIS (if shooting handheld is important).
2. 45mm f2.8 GF - $850

3. 110mm f2 GF - $1500
+1

Given the f/#, these are the two best primes in any MF system, period!
Honestly I shot 99% of my shots with GFX50s hand held at 1/125.
Hand held shooter here also, with the 50S, though I didn’t use a blanket shutter speed, my minimum was based on FL and my judged shakiness (more after walking).

So either 1/FL or 1/(FL*2).
Not more than 5 blurry images and I have shaky hands. I was laso using mechanical shutter those days.
EFCS essential, and no reason not to use it.
Like I said I had GFX50s when they came out. My only lens at the time was 110mm f2. Almost all my shots with strobes outside, f2, 1/125. No once I felt I needed EFCS or IBIS. Maybe GFX5s being bigger is more stable. I don't know. I do use EFCS on my GFX100s just as every one says it makes a diff.
 
Hello,

What would be in your experience the cheapest way to get into Medium Format?

Gear to consider for the calculation:
  • 1 body (no need for a quick autofocus, no need for video)
  • 1 decent prime around 35mm equivalent in FF terms
  • 1 decent prime around 135mm equivalent in FF terms (85mm also OK)
If we can pls consider 2nd hand prices for the calculation...

Thanks, rgds

Gaul
Used prices, could get better deals if you look around.

1. GFX50s, yup only 50MP and has all that so called aliasing but you will be happy - $2000
Make it 50SII for about $200 more and you get IBIS (if shooting handheld is important).
2. 45mm f2.8 GF - $850

3. 110mm f2 GF - $1500
+1

Given the f/#, these are the two best primes in any MF system, period!
Honestly I shot 99% of my shots with GFX50s hand held at 1/125. Not more than 5 blurry images and I have shaky hands. I was laso using mechanical shutter those days.
I do go down to 1/30 indoors with my 110 for my cats and sometimes even for people and I find IBIS a lifesaver even when I have pretty steady hands.
For those situations I would say the IBIS would help.
 
Hi,

You can shave $1000 off this if you opt for the Pentax 645D rather than the 645Z.

That's a 40 MP CCD vs a 50 MP CMOS. And the Z shutter is superior to the D as well.

So, I'm not exactly recommending the D over the Z even though I own,, and like, the D.

But the OP did ask for the lowest cost option.

I am recommending the 645Z over the Fuji 50s since the Pentax lenses are significantly lower cost. And you get auto focus as well as manual focus options with a Pentax 645Z body.

All Pentax 645 lenses can adapt to the Fuji GFX but they all become manual focus when you do.

Stan

--
Amateur Photographer
Professional Electronics Development Engineer
 
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I second this suggestion, and would like to add a few comments:
  • The 645Z's build quality is decidedly better than that of any of the Fuji's. Whether that matters to you or not is of course your decision
  • The optical viewfinder is gorgeous, and unparalleled by any EVF to date
  • The FA 150/2.8 is excellent. Beautiful bokeh, good single AF, good manual focus feel, sharp enough wide open and bitingly sharp from f/4 onwards
  • The FA 45/2.8 is sadly a bit weaker. Still plenty decent enough in my opinion, especially if you are mostly interested in the centre of the frame, where it performs very well straight from f/2.8. But the edges are weaker till f/5.6, and it also suffers from some minor chromatic aberration.
--
Marco
https://pbase.com/marcoraugei
 
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thx all .. DIGITAL camera ..sorry, forgot to mention..



Gaul
 
So.. 2 brands ..

Pentax or Fuji bodies..

Hasselblad out of budget I guess?

thank you all for your useful replies

nice forum btw

Gaul
 
So.. 2 brands ..

Pentax or Fuji bodies..

Hasselblad out of budget I guess?

thank you all for your useful replies

nice forum btw

Gaul
I've seen Pentax 645Z bodies selling for $1,400 USD. There's on on another forum right now at that price. Note Marco's point about the Pentax 45mm prime lenses; they are a weak spot in the lineup. If you go Pentax 645Z, you need to be happy with the lens choices. Have you found the Pentax Forums site yet? https://www.pentaxforums.com/lensreviews/SMC-Pentax-645-Medium-Format-Lenses-i4.html

Fuji GFX 50R bodies go for ~$2,000 USD for very clean ones, and less for well-used copies. If you can live with a zoom, the GF 35-70mm is terrific. Set it to 45mm and wrap the zoom ring with tape and it's an excellent 45mm prime. ;) Fuji doesn't have anything in a prime lens that has roughly the field of view of a 135mm lens on full frame. You need ~180mm for that. The GF 100-200 would give you that focal length at the long end, and it would give you roughly 80mm in full frame at the short end. If adapting works, you could adapt Pentax 645 lenses; the Pentax-A 150mm is inexpensive and very good closed down a stop or two. The Pentax-FA 200mm is also very good.
 
Get a GFX 50s. A nice one can he had foe $1700. Primes can be the 45 and 110mm.

I would avoid the Pentax. It was a beautiful camera, but the system is now dead.

The 50s is still a great camera. You could even get a 50sii for a bit more.
 
So.. 2 brands ..

Pentax or Fuji bodies..

Hasselblad out of budget I guess?

thank you all for your useful replies

nice forum btw

Gaul
Looking at your gear list (if it's current) your main camera would seem to be a FF dSLR, and then you have a m43 MILC, and then a couple of 'compacts'.

The tide of the MILC reached medium-format many years ago, and now there is maybe only a couple of dSLR type medium-format cameras in production (someone can correct me if I'm wrong), the XF by Phase One and the S3 by Leica - both v.expensive.

If you want to buy into a current system it'll have to be a MILC. A second-hand Fuji GFX 50S or 50S II would be the way to go, with either the 45mm or the 35-70mm zoom to start, then acquire lenses as you wish.

The other route is a dSLR medium-format camera that is now out of production (along with lenses that are out of production).

Two options come to mind, 1. a Hasselblad H3DII-31, this would the cheapest way in as a body, has a 31MP CCD sensor - which is now rather outdated (keep ISO's low), second-hand lenses might be pricey but not too bad. 2. Pentax 645Z - which to me is the far better option, mirror action much softer and an all-round more modern camera, and 51MP (a CMOS sensor without PDAF that I prefer to the latest 102MP). Pentax 645Z lenses are quite affordable and nearly as good technically as current Fuji GFX lenses, though in fact in terms of rendering I prefer the Pentax glass.

So a question, how much do you prefer the OVF experience of your FF dSLR compared to the EVF experience of you m43 camera? The EVF of the GFX 50 will be better and larger (I have one), but it flickers, stutters and is contrasty, basically for me I prefer my 645Z, hands down.

One of the joys of photography for me is occasionally using manual focus. dSLR lenses have true mechanical manual focus, MILCs focus-by-wire - where you are manually adjusting the AF motor. I can't get on with focus-by-wire, so I use my GFX, AF only. My 645Z both ways, the lenses have true mechanical coupled manual focus, and are a joy. With your FF dSLR do you ever use manual focus?, with your m43 do you use focus-by-wire manual focus? - just questions worth considering.

If you like EVFs then the GFX 50S or 50S II would be the way to go - as it'll focus a bit more accurately and faster than the 645Z, and is a current system. To me the beautiful OVF of the 645Z along with the handling and build of the camera (including a tripod mount for portrait orientation shooting), still means it's my preferred option.

As to lenses, coming from FF - a 3:2 ratio, the medium-format 4:3 proportion is like your m43 camera. So while 45mm on MF will give you close to 35mm FF, all the 'equivalents' look tighter to me. So a MF 35mm wide angle, doesn't look as wide as a FF 28mm - which is what it's equivalent to - as some of the 'angle' is being spent more upwards rather then across. Hence I wouldn't rule out the amazing DFA 35mm, if you were to look at the 645Z.
 
Last edited:
So.. 2 brands ..

Pentax or Fuji bodies..

Hasselblad out of budget I guess?

thank you all for your useful replies

nice forum btw

Gaul
Looking at your gear list (if it's current) your main camera would seem to be a FF dSLR, and then you have a m43 MILC, and then a couple of 'compacts'.

The tide of the MILC reached medium-format many years ago, and now there is maybe only a couple of dSLR type medium-format cameras in production (someone can correct me if I'm wrong), the XF by Phase One and the S3 by Leica - both v.expensive.

If you want to buy into a current system it'll have to be a MILC. A second-hand Fuji GFX 50S or 50S II would be the way to go, with either the 45mm or the 35-70mm zoom to start, then acquire lenses as you wish.

The other route is a dSLR medium-format camera that is now out of production (along with lenses that are out of production).

Two options come to mind, 1. a Hasselblad H3DII-31, this would the cheapest way in as a body, has a 31MP CCD sensor - which is now rather outdated (keep ISO's low), second-hand lenses might be pricey but not too bad. 2. Pentax 645Z - which to me is the far better option, mirror action much softer and an all-round more modern camera, and 51MP (a CMOS sensor without PDAF that I prefer to the latest 102MP). Pentax 645Z lenses are quite affordable and nearly as good technically as current Fuji GFX lenses, though in fact in terms of rendering I prefer the Pentax glass.

So a question, how much do you prefer the OVF experience of your FF dSLR compared to the EVF experience of you m43 camera? The EVF of the GFX 50 will be better and larger (I have one), but it flickers, stutters and is contrasty, basically for me I prefer my 645Z, hands down.

One of the joys of photography for me is occasionally using manual focus. dSLR lenses have true mechanical manual focus, MILCs focus-by-wire - where you are manually adjusting the AF motor. I can't get on with focus-by-wire, so I use my GFX, AF only. My 645Z both ways, the lenses have true mechanical coupled manual focus, and are a joy. With your FF dSLR do you ever use manual focus?, with your m43 do you use focus-by-wire manual focus? - just questions worth considering.

If you like EVFs then the GFX 50S or 50S II would be the way to go - as it'll focus a bit more accurately and faster than the 645Z, and is a current system. To me the beautiful OVF of the 645Z along with the handling and build of the camera (including a tripod mount for portrait orientation shooting), still means it's my preferred option.

As to lenses, coming from FF - a 3:2 ratio, the medium-format 4:3 proportion is like your m43 camera. So while 45mm on MF will give you close to 35mm FF, all the 'equivalents' look tighter to me. So a MF 35mm wide angle, doesn't look as wide as a FF 28mm - which is what it's equivalent to - as some of the 'angle' is being spent more upwards rather then across. Hence I wouldn't rule out the amazing DFA 35mm, if you were to look at the 645Z.
I think left eye has given a very good summary of the main points.

Just a minor addition: over and above nobody ever having used "cheapest" and "Leica" (or, for that matter, Phase One) in the same sentence, except with a negative or as a joke, the Leica S3, the last Leica medium format DSLR, appears to have been discontinued a considerable time ago. B&H marked it as discontinued quite a while back. There have been posts claiming that Leica insiders have said that it plans to introduce a medium form 'S4' in 2025, but there are substantial questions whether that will happen, whether that will be a MILC instead of an SLR, etc.
 
I second this suggestion, and would like to add a few comments:
  • The 645Z's build quality is decidedly better than that of any of the Fuji's. Whether that matters to you or not is of course your decision
Yes, The 645Z is a superb body. But as a long-time user of its mechanical predecessor, the 645 N, I can say it is a tank. It's big and heavy. Wonderful camera.
  • The optical viewfinder is gorgeous, and unparalleled by any EVF to date
Gorgeous is the right word for it. And big.
  • The FA 150/2.8 is excellent. Beautiful bokeh, good single AF, good manual focus feel, sharp enough wide open and bitingly sharp from f/4 onwards
  • The FA 45/2.8 is sadly a bit weaker. Still plenty decent enough in my opinion, especially if you are mostly interested in the centre of the frame, where it performs very well straight from f/2.8. But the edges are weaker till f/5.6, and it also suffers from some minor chromatic aberration.
IMO, all the GF lenses are head and shoulders above the Pentax line. Everyone politely says the Pentax lenses are "decent" on the Sony 50MP and 100MP sensors. And they are. But the Fuji lenses are in another league. That has to be said, because it's true, but it doesn't matter. The optical quality of the lens is one of the least important factors in a photograph.

--
Rich
"That's like, just your opinion, man." ;-)
 
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