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Canon LP-E6NH Performance

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My two LP-E6N batteries (2018 vintage and a couple of years younger) both show a single red bar for recharge performance. I've just bought an £8 secondhand 2012 vintage LP-E6 battery which shows the green bars...

I'm going to have to check the shooting capacities of all my batteries now, and maybe not charge them so often.
 
Last edited:
R2D2 said:
Apa Macam said:
cpharm86 said:
Apa Macam said:
Do you always fully charged your battery to 100% ? If you did, then it's about right.
Click to expand...
Typically I fully charge the batteries.
Click to expand...
Never fully charge lithium ion batteries (whether those in phone, strobe or camera), every time you did that, you are reducing the lifespan by a tiny bit. You can watch wes perry video on that. He was talking about Godox battery for the flashes, but the same principle applies
Click to expand...
+1 A Li-Ion battery will basically last an unlimited number of charging cycles if you only charged it up to 40% every time (and discharged it down to 20%).

That's impractical for a lot of uses (I charge my camera batts to 100% right after use), but an 80%/ 20% cycle is a lot more practical than 40/20.

R2
Click to expand...
But then you will not get the camera features available only with batteries with a nearly full charge.
 
Apa Macam said:
cpharm86 said:
Apa Macam said:
Do you always fully charged your battery to 100% ? If you did, then it's about right.
Click to expand...
Typically I fully charge the batteries.
Click to expand...
Never fully charge lithium ion batteries (whether those in phone, strobe or camera), every time you did that, you are reducing the lifespan by a tiny bit. You can watch wes perry video on that. He was talking about Godox battery for the flashes, but the same principle applies
Click to expand...
The problem with not charging to 100% is that some Canon chargers (the LP-E17 charger for example) does not indicate what stage of the charge is at, so even if you were sitting staring at it, you wouldn't know when to stop it.

The real problem with lithium batteries isn't so much charging them to 100% - it is storing them at 100%.

After many years of flying large RC helicopters which really hammer batteries (typically discharge two 5,000mAh 6s in series - so a 5,000mAh 12s 50V battery in around 5 minutes, and peak amp draws can exceed 200A), we always charged to 100% to maximise flight time BUT NEVER left the battery fully charged in ambient (especially warm Australian) temps for any length of time. I destroyed 4 almost new (around 20 battery cycles) LiPo batteries by storing them fully charged for 3 weeks during a Brisbane (Australia) summer (it rained every weekend for 2 weeks after I had charged ready to fly - they puffed up and lost about 70% of their "capacity" (ie. around 90 second flight time). I started storing mine in the freezer between flying sessions to prevent this damage. We were also careful not to discharge them below 20% of capacity.

The things that tend to make them catch fire are poorly controlled or over-charging (we used $500 sophisticated balance chargers - that charge each cell independently) and over-discharging.

Our camera batteries are much smaller and less risky, and the camera prevents over-discharging and the genuine Canon chargers control the charging (via 4 pins) - something that can't be said for many of the after-market chargers than only have 2 pins. A small lithium battery like these should last at least 500-1000 cycles minimum, which for most people is a fairly long life.
 
Andy01 said:
Apa Macam said:
cpharm86 said:
Apa Macam said:
Do you always fully charged your battery to 100% ? If you did, then it's about right.
Click to expand...
Typically I fully charge the batteries.
Click to expand...
Never fully charge lithium ion batteries (whether those in phone, strobe or camera), every time you did that, you are reducing the lifespan by a tiny bit. You can watch wes perry video on that. He was talking about Godox battery for the flashes, but the same principle applies
Click to expand...
The problem with not charging to 100% is that some Canon chargers (the LP-E17 charger for example) does not indicate what stage of the charge is at, so even if you were sitting staring at it, you wouldn't know when to stop it.

The real problem with lithium batteries isn't so much charging them to 100% - it is storing them at 100%.

After many years of flying large RC helicopters which really hammer batteries (typically discharge two 5,000mAh 6s in series - so a 5,000mAh 12s 50V battery in around 5 minutes, and peak amp draws can exceed 200A), we always charged to 100% to maximise flight time BUT NEVER left the battery fully charged in ambient (especially warm Australian) temps for any length of time. I destroyed 4 almost new (around 20 battery cycles) LiPo batteries by storing them fully charged for 3 weeks during a Brisbane (Australia) summer (it rained every weekend for 2 weeks after I had charged ready to fly - they puffed up and lost about 70% of their "capacity" (ie. around 90 second flight time). I started storing mine in the freezer between flying sessions to prevent this damage. We were also careful not to discharge them below 20% of capacity.

The things that tend to make them catch fire are poorly controlled or over-charging (we used $500 sophisticated balance chargers - that charge each cell independently) and over-discharging.

Our camera batteries are much smaller and less risky, and the camera prevents over-discharging and the genuine Canon chargers control the charging (via 4 pins) - something that can't be said for many of the after-market chargers than only have 2 pins. A small lithium battery like these should last at least 500-1000 cycles minimum, which for most people is a fairly long life.
Click to expand...
From a measurement I posted yesterday it can be seen that when the canon charged stops charging the cells are not at the normal maximum acceptable 4.20v.

I haven't retested with in camera charging but shall do.

So when the term 100% is used, 100% of the maximum permissible or 100% referenced to a completed canon charger charge?
 
Ephemeris said:
From a measurement I posted yesterday it can be seen that when the canon charged stops charging the cells are not at the normal maximum acceptable 4.20v.

I haven't retested with in camera charging but shall do.

So when the term 100% is used, 100% of the maximum permissible or 100% referenced to a completed canon charger charge?
Click to expand...
I would regard the level of charge as being 100% when the OEM charger (obviously not defective) regards the new-ish battery as being fully charged and stops charging. This should be pretty close to 4.20V/cell.

It is worth noting that typically lithium batteries often only reach the full 4.2V per cell when they are near new. It is not uncommon for a battery to struggle to get to 4.20V and then drop back slightly as soon as the charger stops, or simply stop charging at a voltage a little lower than 4.20V. Most decent lithium chargers will register when the voltage stops increasing for a period and end the charge - if they didn't the charger could continue trying to charge a tired battery indefinitely.

Also worth noting that most (good condition) lithium batteries have a fairly flat discharge voltage curve - the tend to drop from 4.20V/cell to around 4.15-4.17V/cell almost immediately and then very slowly drift down to around 3.60V/cell (at this level they are getting over-discharged to around 10% of remaining capacity or less), at which point the voltage drops off quite quickly.
 
Andy01 said:
Ephemeris said:
From a measurement I posted yesterday it can be seen that when the canon charged stops charging the cells are not at the normal maximum acceptable 4.20v.

I haven't retested with in camera charging but shall do.

So when the term 100% is used, 100% of the maximum permissible or 100% referenced to a completed canon charger charge?
Click to expand...
I would regard the level of charge as being 100% when the OEM charger (obviously not defective) regards the new-ish battery as being fully charged and stops charging. This should be pretty close to 4.20V/cell.
Click to expand...
It's below 4.20v. hence why defining what is meant by 100%.
Andy01 said:
It is worth noting that typically lithium batteries often only reach the full 4.2V per cell when they are near new. It is not uncommon for a battery to struggle to get to 4.20V and then drop back slightly as soon as the charger stops, or simply stop charging at a voltage a little lower than 4.20V. Most decent lithium chargers will register when the voltage stops increasing for a period and end the charge - if they didn't the charger could continue trying to charge a tired battery indefinitely.
Click to expand...
They stop when the current reduces.
Andy01 said:
Also worth noting that most (good condition) lithium batteries have a fairly flat discharge voltage curve - the tend to drop from 4.20V/cell to around 4.15-4.17V/cell almost immediately and then very slowly drift down to around 3.60V/cell (at this level they are getting over-discharged to around 10% of remaining capacity or less), at which point the voltage drops off quite quickly.
Click to expand...
I'd expect it to look something similar to this.

932edff30e6d4bb9b056eb73b238daed.jpg
 
cpharm86 said:
Victor Engel said:
Are you using the same charger for all 4? Do you have another charger you can try?
Click to expand...
I have 2 chargers and used them both in this case.
cpharm86 said:
There's also a discussion here: https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1801631/0
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reference. It did help clear some things up. I'm not going to purchase new batteries at this time.
Click to expand...
Even if an older battery is showing 1 red bar, if it is still working it’s still worth carrying along as a spare. I try to leave one in the car, and one in whatever pack/bag I’m using, in an internal pocket so as to never be completely caught out. I’ve often ended up lending it to someone else!

I would also suggest that if you have 2 camera bodies it’s well worth choosing them to have the same battery.
 
Last edited:
Victor Engel said:
R2D2 said:
Apa Macam said:
cpharm86 said:
Apa Macam said:
Do you always fully charged your battery to 100% ? If you did, then it's about right.
Click to expand...
Typically I fully charge the batteries.
Click to expand...
Never fully charge lithium ion batteries (whether those in phone, strobe or camera), every time you did that, you are reducing the lifespan by a tiny bit. You can watch wes perry video on that. He was talking about Godox battery for the flashes, but the same principle applies
Click to expand...
+1 A Li-Ion battery will basically last an unlimited number of charging cycles if you only charged it up to 40% every time (and discharged it down to 20%).

That's impractical for a lot of uses (I charge my camera batts to 100% right after use), but an 80%/ 20% cycle is a lot more practical than 40/20.

R2
Click to expand...
But then you will not get the camera features available only with batteries with a nearly full charge.
Click to expand...
Exactly. There are always compromises to be made. One can obsess over battery life, or one can go full speed ahead. There are "costs" associated with each!

R2
 
Andy01 said:
The problem with not charging to 100% is that some Canon chargers (the LP-E17 charger for example) does not indicate what stage of the charge is at, so even if you were sitting staring at it, you wouldn't know when to stop it.

The real problem with lithium batteries isn't so much charging them to 100% - it is storing them at 100%.

After many years of flying large RC helicopters which really hammer batteries (typically discharge two 5,000mAh 6s in series - so a 5,000mAh 12s 50V battery in around 5 minutes, and peak amp draws can exceed 200A), we always charged to 100% to maximise flight time BUT NEVER left the battery fully charged in ambient (especially warm Australian) temps for any length of time. I destroyed 4 almost new (around 20 battery cycles) LiPo batteries by storing them fully charged for 3 weeks during a Brisbane (Australia) summer (it rained every weekend for 2 weeks after I had charged ready to fly - they puffed up and lost about 70% of their "capacity" (ie. around 90 second flight time). I started storing mine in the freezer between flying sessions to prevent this damage. We were also careful not to discharge them below 20% of capacity.

The things that tend to make them catch fire are poorly controlled or over-charging (we used $500 sophisticated balance chargers - that charge each cell independently) and over-discharging.
Click to expand...
While this is interesting, folks should keep in mind that LiPo characteristics are substantially different than Li-ion. I've indeed "blown up" my share of LiPo batts in my RC vehicles myself!
Andy01 said:
Our camera batteries are much smaller and less risky, and the camera prevents over-discharging and the genuine Canon chargers control the charging (via 4 pins) - something that can't be said for many of the after-market chargers than only have 2 pins. A small lithium battery like these should last at least 500-1000 cycles minimum, which for most people is a fairly long life.
Click to expand...
+1 Not much to worry about (esp vs. RC usage). If any of my Canon batts starts to show age (hasn't happened yet to any of my eight 4-Y.O. LP-E6NH), I'll just buy a new one.

R2
 
drsnoopy said:
cpharm86 said:
Victor Engel said:
Are you using the same charger for all 4? Do you have another charger you can try?
Click to expand...
I have 2 chargers and used them both in this case.
drsnoopy said:
There's also a discussion here: https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1801631/0
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reference. It did help clear some things up. I'm not going to purchase new batteries at this time.
Click to expand...
Even if an older battery is showing 1 red bar, if it is still working it’s still worth carrying along as a spare. I try to leave one in the car, and one in whatever pack/bag I’m using, in an internal pocket so as to never be completely caught out. I’ve often ended up lending it to someone else!

I would also suggest that if you have 2 camera bodies it’s well worth choosing them to have the same battery.
Click to expand...
I would not leave one in the car. I suspect the wide swings in temperature from colder than ambient temperature overnight due to radiative cooling to 50 or 60 degrees above ambient temperature when sitting in the blaring sun are not very good for batteries.
 
Canon's take:

"Storing the battery
  • Do not store the camera with the battery pack inside. If the battery is left in the camera for a prolonged period, a small amount of power current is released, resulting in excess discharge and shorter battery life.
  • Store the battery with the protective cover attached. Storing the battery after it is fully charged can lower the battery's performance.
  • If you have not used the battery pack for an extended period of time, or if you are using the battery pack for the first time, it may not be fully charged. Fully charge the battery pack and then discharge it completely in the camera several times to bring the battery pack capacity to normal."
Can't say I ever judiciously followed that advice, or paid much attention to the "red bars"; I treat them like I do flashlight batteries when the light diminishes, ---When they start losing power to quickly to suit me, I replace them. :-)
 
Victor Engel said:
drsnoopy said:
cpharm86 said:
Victor Engel said:
Are you using the same charger for all 4? Do you have another charger you can try?
Click to expand...
I have 2 chargers and used them both in this case.
Victor Engel said:
There's also a discussion here: https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1801631/0
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reference. It did help clear some things up. I'm not going to purchase new batteries at this time.
Click to expand...
Even if an older battery is showing 1 red bar, if it is still working it’s still worth carrying along as a spare. I try to leave one in the car, and one in whatever pack/bag I’m using, in an internal pocket so as to never be completely caught out. I’ve often ended up lending it to someone else!

I would also suggest that if you have 2 camera bodies it’s well worth choosing them to have the same battery.
Click to expand...
I would not leave one in the car. I suspect the wide swings in temperature from colder than ambient temperature overnight due to radiative cooling to 50 or 60 degrees above ambient temperature when sitting in the blaring sun are not very good for batteries.
Click to expand...
 
Victor Engel said:
drsnoopy said:
cpharm86 said:
Victor Engel said:
Are you using the same charger for all 4? Do you have another charger you can try?
Click to expand...
I have 2 chargers and used them both in this case.
Victor Engel said:
There's also a discussion here: https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1801631/0
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reference. It did help clear some things up. I'm not going to purchase new batteries at this time.
Click to expand...
Even if an older battery is showing 1 red bar, if it is still working it’s still worth carrying along as a spare. I try to leave one in the car, and one in whatever pack/bag I’m using, in an internal pocket so as to never be completely caught out. I’ve often ended up lending it to someone else!

I would also suggest that if you have 2 camera bodies it’s well worth choosing them to have the same battery.
Click to expand...
I would not leave one in the car. I suspect the wide swings in temperature from colder than ambient temperature overnight due to radiative cooling to 50 or 60 degrees above ambient temperature when sitting in the blaring sun are not very good for batteries.
Click to expand...
Actually it's not the temperature swings that would have a negative impact, it's the Heat. Heat is what kills Li-ion batteries, and that final 10% of the charging cycle is what builds up the most heat (as does baking it in a car).

R2
 
Leigh A said:
Canon's take:

"Storing the battery
  • Do not store the camera with the battery pack inside. If the battery is left in the camera for a prolonged period, a small amount of power current is released, resulting in excess discharge and shorter battery life.
  • Store the battery with the protective cover attached. Storing the battery after it is fully charged can lower the battery's performance.
  • If you have not used the battery pack for an extended period of time, or if you are using the battery pack for the first time, it may not be fully charged. Fully charge the battery pack and then discharge it completely in the camera several times to bring the battery pack capacity to normal."
Can't say I ever judiciously followed that advice, or paid much attention to the "red bars"; I treat them like I do flashlight batteries when the light diminishes, ---When they start losing power to quickly to suit me, I replace them. :-)
Click to expand...
Thank you for the information. I probably should have read that!
 
drsnoopy said:
Victor Engel said:
drsnoopy said:
cpharm86 said:
Victor Engel said:
Are you using the same charger for all 4? Do you have another charger you can try?
Click to expand...
I have 2 chargers and used them both in this case.
drsnoopy said:
There's also a discussion here: https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1801631/0
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reference. It did help clear some things up. I'm not going to purchase new batteries at this time.
Click to expand...
Even if an older battery is showing 1 red bar, if it is still working it’s still worth carrying along as a spare. I try to leave one in the car, and one in whatever pack/bag I’m using, in an internal pocket so as to never be completely caught out. I’ve often ended up lending it to someone else!

I would also suggest that if you have 2 camera bodies it’s well worth choosing them to have the same battery.
Click to expand...
I would not leave one in the car. I suspect the wide swings in temperature from colder than ambient temperature overnight due to radiative cooling to 50 or 60 degrees above ambient temperature when sitting in the blaring sun are not very good for batteries.
Click to expand...
It’s not kept in a hot place (eg glove compartment). It’s an older battery, and it’s for an emergency spare, so i don’t really worry. And I’m in the UK, not the hottest country……
Click to expand...
I keep a large cooler (with a lot of thermal mass inside) in my car for the times when I need to leave my equipment in the car for extended periods. Works well.

R2
 
drsnoopy said:
Victor Engel said:
drsnoopy said:
cpharm86 said:
Victor Engel said:
Are you using the same charger for all 4? Do you have another charger you can try?
Click to expand...
I have 2 chargers and used them both in this case.
drsnoopy said:
There's also a discussion here: https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1801631/0
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reference. It did help clear some things up. I'm not going to purchase new batteries at this time.
Click to expand...
Even if an older battery is showing 1 red bar, if it is still working it’s still worth carrying along as a spare. I try to leave one in the car, and one in whatever pack/bag I’m using, in an internal pocket so as to never be completely caught out. I’ve often ended up lending it to someone else!

I would also suggest that if you have 2 camera bodies it’s well worth choosing them to have the same battery.
Click to expand...
I would not leave one in the car. I suspect the wide swings in temperature from colder than ambient temperature overnight due to radiative cooling to 50 or 60 degrees above ambient temperature when sitting in the blaring sun are not very good for batteries.
Click to expand...
It’s not kept in a hot place (eg glove compartment). It’s an older battery, and it’s for an emergency spare, so i don’t really worry. And I’m in the UK, not the hottest country……
Click to expand...
Yeah, I'm in Texas. I have a digital thermometer not in the glove compartment but in a pocket below the instrument panel. There the temperature has ranged from 13F to 140F (-11 to 60C). When I make a quick drive to the local convenience store in the early evening, when I exit the vehicle, I have to be careful with my key so I don't burn myself. :)
 
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